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Seven O'clock vaguely sympathetic to Trump?

Bu$chlagerBu$chlager Posts: 498
in The Porch

I need some help here.  Every time I listen to Seven O'Clock I am struck by the second chorus:

His best days gone, hard to admit
Throwing angry punches with nothing to hit
Luminous thoughts were once all he had
Fading lights, lost eloquence
There's still a fire in the engine room
Knows relief will be coming soon

Obviously I don't think Ed would ever say anything positive about Trump - but I interpret these lines as having some sympathy for the man.  Even seeming to suggest that Trump was once good (luminous thoughts, fading lights) and even eloquent (lost eloquence.)

Did Ed at one point in his life admire Trump?
Does he have genuine empathy for him?

Or am I completely off the reservation on this?  If so, someone set me straight!

(P.S. This song is amazing)
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    jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    I'd be surprised. I don't believe Ed would say "lost eloquence" since I don't believe there was a single period of time where Trump could have been considered eloquent by anyone, let alone Ed. Trump riffs, and speaks with a limited vocabulary and favors monosyllabic words. There's nothing approximating eloquence about that guy.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
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    Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 6,911
    I think its about humanity. But yeah, following the verse before, it could be about Trump.  
     

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    Bu$chlagerBu$chlager Posts: 498
    jeffbr said:
    I'd be surprised. I don't believe Ed would say "lost eloquence" since I don't believe there was a single period of time where Trump could have been considered eloquent by anyone, let alone Ed. Trump riffs, and speaks with a limited vocabulary and favors monosyllabic words. There's nothing approximating eloquence about that guy.
    Right.  Even people who like Trump would not argue he is eloquent.  Heck, his lack thereof is part of his appeal.
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    Bu$chlagerBu$chlager Posts: 498
    Tim Simmons said:
    I think its about humanity. But yeah, following the verse before, it could be about Trump.  
     

    Right, that's what throws me.  I probably should have mentioned that I am tying my interpretation to the preceding verse where I think it's pretty apparent he's referring to Trump.

    Interesting point though.  Maybe Ed is moving on to a new topic.  Sure seems to me like he's still on Trump but maybe I'm off base.
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    Jumb0Jumb0 Posts: 910
    The song is most definitely aimed at Trump. 

    Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse forged the North and West
    Then there's Sitting Bullshit as our sitting president

    It's not being sympathetic towards him, it's quite the opposite. 
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    Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 6,911
    edited May 2020
    Seeing as Trump is barely referenced in the song other than the 1 verse of the 6(?), I assumed he's moving back to talk about humanity's failings. 


    Post edited by Tim Simmons on
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    Bu$chlagerBu$chlager Posts: 498
    Jumb0 said:
    The song is most definitely aimed at Trump. 

    Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse forged the North and West
    Then there's Sitting Bullshit as our sitting president

    It's not being sympathetic towards him, it's quite the opposite. 
    Sure, those lines clearly are derisive towards Trump.  But the lyrics I am talking about immediately follow those and strike a very different tone to me.
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    jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    I agree that part of the song is clearly aimed at Trump. I'm just commenting on the eloquent piece, since I can't reconcile that and agree that he moved on to a broader topic. If Ed ascribed eloquence to any part of Trump's past he would have been on shrooms at the time. Classy, intellectual, refined, compassionate, thoughtful, eloquent. All words that could never be used to describe Trump at any point in his life. It just doesn't fit as a Trump reference.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
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    Jumb0Jumb0 Posts: 910
    BUSH-lager said:
    Sure, those lines clearly are derisive towards Trump.  But the lyrics I am talking about immediately follow those and strike a very different tone to me.

    To me, it seems that the lyrics after are still shots at him and his Twitter tirades. 
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    on2legson2legs Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,420
    I thought Ed was talking about himself there... 
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    JT167846JT167846 Posts: 810
    Thought Soon Forget was about him when I heard it. A lot of people are disappointed that outcome didn't happen. 7OC could be an attempt at empathising even though he can't stand the orange one. 
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    WhiteMaleRatWhiteMaleRat Posts: 301
    edited May 2020
    it's definitely about Trump.
    Luminous can mean harsh.
    Eloquence can mean persuasive speaking.
    Engine room fires are bad on ships. His ship is in trouble (presidency).
    Relief coming soon refers to his cronies, help bail him out like they've always done.
    Don't worry - it's all bad and sarcastic.
    Post edited by WhiteMaleRat on
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    Ample JarAmple Jar Posts: 236
    WhiteMaleRat said:
    it's definitely about Trump.
    Luminous can mean harsh.
    Eloquence can mean persuasive speaking.
    Engine room fires are bad on ships. His ship is in trouble (presidency).
    Relief coming soon refers to his cronies, help bail him out like they've always done.
    Don't worry - it's all bad and sarcastic.
    This is exactly how I've interpreted this verse, although no idea if it's correct :)
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    robbierobbie Posts: 882
    I think for sure the verse is ed speaking about himself.
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    robbierobbie Posts: 882
    Or at least the verse is speaking about the narrator of the song. 
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    edoconedocon Posts: 302
    robbie said:
    Or at least the verse is speaking about the narrator of the song. 
    Interesting point on the luminous thoughts verse being about the narrator or Ed himself. In that case I think "still a fire in the engine room" is not a negative, but rather speaks to there still being an energy to move forward (like a locomotive engine) and the "relief will be coming soon" is perhaps looking to the next election when sitting bullshit can be replaced (from narrator point of view).
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    ceskaceska New York Posts: 1,076
    I don't interpret this verse as having to do with Trump at all. I'm not sure who it is; it could be the narrator, or Ed, or anyone else. I interpret the "fire in the engine room" as a good thing, ie, such as when a very competitive athlete is said to have "fire in their belly." In other words, times may be bad (because of Trump) but we still have fight in us. And we can see relief on the way, as edocon said, in the form of the next election, or the belief that we have to end up on the right side of history.
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    im an earim an ear San Diego, CA Posts: 245
    I was also confused by this verse since it followed the Trump reference.
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    unforgivenunforgiven Posts: 378
    I view the whole song being about the US position and the position of the presidency. 

    I view the first 2 verses being about the despodency ed feels with where the US is and the role the president has played in that, the message from down under where dreams are still being made shows that this feeling he is feeling is about the US and his lack of being able to dream for the future.

    The next 3 verses are about getting close to having it right with the last president and having that all taken away, the freedom part in verse 3 to me is about voting and how that process gave hope for the country and then took it away again when Trump was voted in. He now feels he is swimming against the tide to get back what he wants for the country. The butterfly in my opinion is the US again and what makes the country beautiful and amazing has been stripped away.

    Verse 6 is a full on attack of trump and blaming him for all of the problems above but I think in verse 7 ed starts to talk about the position of the the presidency and the US again. The relief that is coming soon is the possibility that the position and the country will be saved by someone else in the role.

    The last 2 verses are about putting in the preparation and work for that change to happen, the carve a path for rivers to reign to me is about creating an opportunitity for ideas to be heard and to overcome the misinformation he believes is out there. The hangman is the American people that Ed hopes will end this but to achieve it there is still much to be done.

    That is just my take on it and I'm an Aussie so may be way off when seeing the political side of the song.
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    cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,087
    on2legs said:
    I thought Ed was talking about himself there... 
    That's what I thought as well
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    BF25394BF25394 Posts: 3,160
    Neither that song nor the singer is sympathetic to Donald Trump on any level.  If you think the song is sympathetic to Trump, you are misreading it.  If there's a lyric you think might be sympathetic to Trump, then that lyric is not about Trump.
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    Bu$chlagerBu$chlager Posts: 498
    Really appreciate all the feedback, everyone!
    I fully appreciate that my interpretation is probably bogus - which is why I posted this.
    It remains my favorite song on the album and really liked reading your different interpretations.
    Cheers!
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    Foriginal SinForiginal Sin Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 1,748
    That entire set of lyrics is aimed directly at Trump. Particularly “knows relief will be coming soon” as a nudge to say you’ll be out of office soon, although that is a toss up. 

    Eloquent is described as speaking “clear and powerful” so watching a few episodes of The Apprentice back in the day I can see that. Now he sounds angry and defensive when he talks, so he lost it. 

    Btw, my favorite song on the album for sure 
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    Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,726
    BUSH-lager said:
    Mjeffbr said:
    I'd be surprised. I don't believe Ed would say "lost eloquence" since I don't believe there was a single period of time where Trump could have been considered eloquent by anyone, let alone Ed. Trump riffs, and speaks with a limited vocabulary and favors monosyllabic words. There's nothing approximating eloquence about that guy.
    Right.  Even people who like Trump would not argue he is eloquent.  Heck, his lack thereof is part of his appeal.
    They actually sort of acknowledge this in his latest ad. “President Trump’s not always polite...”

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    SK20613SK20613 Apex, NC Posts: 103
    I think it's key to include the talking to the mirror part.  Everything after, in my mind is trumps own thoughts, looking in the mirror, and the relief coming soon is his departure from the whitehouse. So any sympathy implied, I see as trump's own towards himself.

    Oh, talking to his mirror, what's he say? What's it say back? 
    A tragedy of errors, who'll be the last to have a laugh?
    His best days gone, hard to admit
    Throwing angry punches with nothing to hit
    Luminous thoughts were once all he had
    Fading lights, lost eloquence
    There's still a fire in the engine room
    Knows relief will be coming soon

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    BloodMeridian80BloodMeridian80 Seattle Posts: 578
    I read that verse as being more about humanity/civilized humans. 
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    stuckinlinestuckinline Posts: 3,358
    edited May 2020
    What are everyone's interpretation of the following lyrics?

    Hangman in dreamland
    About to call your name 
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    RS65573RS65573 Posts: 2,366
    He hopes he (Trump) dies in his sleep, is my interpretation.
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    SK20613SK20613 Apex, NC Posts: 103
    stuckinline said:
    What are everyone's interpretation of the following lyrics?

    Hangman in dreamland
    About to call your name 
    I interpreted that as he is the hangman (an executioner), who lives in a dreamland normally, but now it's his turn to be called up for execution. But I don't interpret it as violence, just the end of his term.
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    SparkieSparkie Posts: 5
    edited May 2020
    I think the chorus starting "best days gone" is no longer about Trump. It's about humanity, or maybe America as a country.

    Hangman in dreamland
    About to call your name 

    I take this as a warning...Death is about to be coming for us all if we don't get our act together, because there's still "much to be done"
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