Planned Obsolescence

brianlux

Planned Obsolescence.  Are we just now catching on?  Apparently so:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/apr/15/the-right-to-repair-planned-obsolescence-electronic-waste-mountain

Planned obsolescence: the outrage of our electronic waste mountain

"Unrepairable phones and laptops are one of the scandals of our throwaway society. But the pushback is building – and the coronavirus crisis has added more pressure for change

‘Imagine you showed someone a smartphone 20 years ago. You said: ‘Here’s this thing, it’s going to be awesome, and it’ll cost $1,000. But the manufacturers are going to glue the battery in, and you’re supposed to get rid of it when the battery wears out.’ You would have thought that notion was completely bananas.”

Nathan Proctor is talking via Google Hangouts from Boston, Massachusetts, about an allegedly central feature of modern manufacturing known as planned obsolescence. This is the idea that some of the world’s biggest companies have been selling us products either knowing full well that they will only last a couple of years, or having deliberately built a short lifespan into the itemor its software."

Is this a new concept?  Well, no, we've known about it since, at the very least, 1968 when this great album came out:

Fifthelement

It’s not just tech.  Appliances are the same.  It’s aggravating beyond belief.  Remember the old Maytag repairman commercials?  What once used to be a proud selling feature, I’d argue, is no longer the case.

Smellyman

Supporting and using Apple are for damn fools

tempo_n_groove

Smellyman said:

Supporting and using Apple are for damn fools

Been using the same phone for 5 years.  I'm doing ok.

brianlux

"Meanwhile, the coronavirus crisis has brought our need for greater resilience and sustainability into sharp focus."

Sustainability is dependent on us producing and purchasing well made, durable items, not throw-away crap.  I hope we learn to do this.  It would be one of those little "silver linings" to this mess.

bbiggs

When I think of planned obsolescence, I think of household mechanicals and automobiles.  Decades ago, furnaces used to last for 30 years in many cases.  Now, 15-20 is an average range.  I can think of three friends with VERY old refrigerators in their garage (beer fridge) that still run like a top.  I’ve had to replace two in 15 years.  Old trucks could easily get 200,000+ miles with regular maintenance.  Today, that’s a major rarity.  Stoves, water heaters...the list goes on.  Are we really worse at making stuff now than we were 50+ years ago? 

brianlux

bbiggs said:

When I think of planned obsolescence, I think of household mechanicals and automobiles.  Decades ago, furnaces used to last for 30 years in many cases.  Now, 15-20 is an average range.  I can think of three friends with VERY old refrigerators in their garage (beer fridge) that still run like a top.  I’ve had to replace two in 15 years.  Old trucks could easily get 200,000+ miles with regular maintenance.  Today, that’s a major rarity.  Stoves, water heaters...the list goes on.  Are we really worse at making stuff now than we were 50+ years ago? 

I worked with a guy in an auto parts store in San Francisco from 1972 to '73 who was a total car fanatic.  He told me convincingly that "with our modern technology" automobiles should be able to run 500K to 1 Million miles.  He thought 200K was no where near long enough!

A few years later- mid 70's-  I had an old Ford Econoline (I believe it was a 1968 model)  that turned over it's 100K odometer three times! I drove it cross country and it was struck by lighting which blew out the starter solenoid.  I just jumped it with a screw driver to get it started until I got tired of that and bought a new solenoid.   When I got rid of that van, it still ran fine!  I gave it to my brother who used for quite awhile after that.

My '65 Malibu blew an alternator outside of Kansas City once many years ago and I went to a wrecking yard and the guy didn't have any Chevrolets but he had a Cadillac from which he pulled the alternator and said, "This will work".  Worked just fine.  I was a lousy mechanic, but back then, almost anyone could work on a car and keep it running for a long time. 

hedonist

Our microwave lasted thirty years! Just tossed it the other day. Same with our fridge; that thing made it for 25+. What a difference a couple decades makes, huh. 

Lots of things could be made better and/or safer. Hell, a car made of carbon fiber would be a guaranteed lifesaver. But, the cost would be prohibitive. 

bbiggs

brianlux said:

bbiggs said:

When I think of planned obsolescence, I think of household mechanicals and automobiles.  Decades ago, furnaces used to last for 30 years in many cases.  Now, 15-20 is an average range.  I can think of three friends with VERY old refrigerators in their garage (beer fridge) that still run like a top.  I’ve had to replace two in 15 years.  Old trucks could easily get 200,000+ miles with regular maintenance.  Today, that’s a major rarity.  Stoves, water heaters...the list goes on.  Are we really worse at making stuff now than we were 50+ years ago? 

I worked with a guy in an auto parts store in San Francisco from 1972 to '73 who was a total car fanatic.  He told me convincingly that "with our modern technology" automobiles should be able to run 500K to 1 Million miles.  He thought 200K was no where near long enough!

A few years later- mid 70's-  I had an old Ford Econoline (I believe it was a 1968 model)  that turned over it's 100K odometer three times! I drove it cross country and it was struck by lighting which blew out the starter solenoid.  I just jumped it with a screw driver to get it started until I got tired of that and bought a new solenoid.   When I got rid of that van, it still ran fine!  I gave it to my brother who used for quite awhile after that.

My '65 Malibu blew an alternator outside of Kansas City once many years ago and I went to a wrecking yard and the guy didn't have any Chevrolets but he had a Cadillac from which he pulled the alternator and said, "This will work".  Worked just fine.  I was a lousy mechanic, but back then, almost anyone could work on a car and keep it running for a long time. 

Cool stories!  There are definitely advantages to simplicity.  Everything is loaded with so much technology today, that fixing a car has become much tougher.  Same with household mechanicals and appliances.  The things that are supposed to help us (and do in some ways), hurt us at the same point. 

oftenreading

I certainly won’t argue against the fact that many bells and whistles on modern appliances are unnecessary. Most people don’t want them, most people don’t even know how they work, and they just make the unit more expensive and more challenging to fix. On the other hand, you can’t really argue against the fact that modern cars are far, far safer than cars of decades ago, and have the potential to be much more fuel efficient. Modern appliances  are also generally more fuel efficient. 

bbiggs

oftenreading said:

I certainly won’t argue against the fact that many bells and whistles on modern appliances are unnecessary. Most people don’t want them, most people don’t even know how they work, and they just make the unit more expensive and more challenging to fix. On the other hand, you can’t really argue against the fact that modern cars are far, far safer than cars of decades ago, and have the potential to be much more fuel efficient. Modern appliances  are also generally more fuel efficient. 

Great points and both very true.

brianlux

hedonist said:

Our microwave lasted thirty years! Just tossed it the other day. Same with our fridge; that thing made it for 25+. What a difference a couple decades makes, huh. 

Lots of things could be made better and/or safer. Hell, a car made of carbon fiber would be a guaranteed lifesaver. But, the cost would be prohibitive. 

I think they should make that an Olympic sport- The Microwave Toss.   Highest bounce wins!

rgambs

Dishwashers are pretty light, I'll bet I could throw one a few paces...at least far enough to fuck somebody up.

Shit, wrong thread.  Oh well.

brianlux

rgambs said:

Dishwashers are pretty light, I'll bet I could throw one a few paces...at least far enough to fuck somebody up.

Shit, wrong thread.  Oh well.

We need an "Appliance Tossing" thread!

Meltdown99

I dunno.  You have heard the saying “ they don’t make them like they used to...good thing they don’t.  

Cars are better today by a long shot.  If you can’t get 300 thousand plus kms on a car today...really?  

smart phones?  How many upgrade every 2 years?

tvs?  How many upgrade just for that latest and greatest in high def?

and on and on with so many different products.

i would say slick marketing by these companies are equally responsible...

The auto industry does a good job of recycling.  Autos that are no longer useful end up at auto recyclers???

brianlux

Meltdown99 said:

I dunno.  You have heard the saying “ they don’t make them like they used to...good thing they don’t.  

Cars are better today by a long shot.  If you can’t get 300 thousand plus kms on a car today...really?  

smart phones?  How many upgrade every 2 years?

tvs?  How many upgrade just for that latest and greatest in high def?

and on and on with so many different products.

i would say slick marketing by these companies are equally responsible...

The auto industry does a good job of recycling.  Autos that are no longer useful end up at auto recyclers???

I would agree that in some ways cars are better today- they generally get better gas mileage and have many more safety features.  But, personally, I think in general they are not as attractive or "cool" looking (if that matters- to me it does), and, especially considering how much more advanced our technology is, they do not last nearly as long as they should.   I know a fellow (a former club member here) who worked for a Toyota dealership who told me about how the second generation Prius (I have one, an '08) were made so well that the shop mechanics began to complain that they weren't getting enough of them in for repairs and it was costing them jobs.  The next generation Prius were nat made as well and none since.  Most second generation Prius will last at least 300,000 miles (almost 483,000 KM).  All cars could easily last that long, but the average new car today will only run on average 150,000 miles (241,000 KM).  That's inexcusable. 

Meltdown99

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

I dunno.  You have heard the saying “ they don’t make them like they used to...good thing they don’t.  

Cars are better today by a long shot.  If you can’t get 300 thousand plus kms on a car today...really?  

smart phones?  How many upgrade every 2 years?

tvs?  How many upgrade just for that latest and greatest in high def?

and on and on with so many different products.

i would say slick marketing by these companies are equally responsible...

The auto industry does a good job of recycling.  Autos that are no longer useful end up at auto recyclers???

I would agree that in some ways cars are better today- they generally get better gas mileage and have many more safety features.  But, personally, I think in general they are not as attractive or "cool" looking (if that matters- to me it does), and, especially considering how much more advanced our technology is, they do not last nearly as long as they should.   I know a fellow (a former club member here) who worked for a Toyota dealership who told me about how the second generation Prius (I have one, an '08) were made so well that the shop mechanics began to complain that they weren't getting enough of them in for repairs and it was costing them jobs.  The next generation Prius were nat made as well and none since.  Most second generation Prius will last at least 300,000 miles (almost 483,000 KM).  All cars could easily last that long, but the average new car today will only run on average 150,000 miles (241,000 KM).  That's inexcusable. 

When I upgraded my Jeep to a 2015 I gave my wife (separated) my 2007 Jeep, 260 000 kms, she put $1200 tires on it...she will drive it another 100 000 kms...that’s a 4 cylinder.  But I maintained it properly...

She had a Chevy Colbalt nearly 300 000 kms.

sama as my new Jeep...I know they claim you only need oil changes every 6 months...I still do every 3 months.

a friend got 400 000 kms with a Chevy Colbalt...those had lots of recalls...but still held up well.

so maybe the cars from overseas are not nearly as great as so many claim...

Of course cars not attractive as they used to be to be for you or me.

but maybe many years down the road the younger generation will be restoring the cars of today...

classic cars become classic with age.  

FCA has some nice vehicles that may well be classic some day...the charger, challenger and most jeeps may qualify.

Ford Mustang...

Chevy Corvette, Camaro...

Monte Carlo from the 80’s...

Grand National from the 80’s


and in no way do I ever want those old 21” TVs back that you needed to be a power lifter to move...

I absolutely enjoy (digital music)...a Spotify subscription and I got all the music I need for 10 bucks...

could care a less about vinyl...another well marketed bullshit in many ways.  I doubt the average music fan can hear any difference...they have been convinced they can, just like apple has successfully marketed that people needed new i products every year.

OnWis97

Every time I see this thread it reminds me of "Acid Bubble" by Alice In Chains (Post-Layne era), which frequently repeats the line "Intent obsolescence built into the system."  It's not a great song, but I'm actually a pretty big fan of Post-Layne AIC.

brianlux

More examples of planned obsolescence:

https://www.qualitylogoproducts.com/blog/planned-obsolescence-5-products/

The one about light bulbs is interesting.  The Centennial Light has burned since 1901. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Light

It's not the world's most energy efficient light bulb, but if a bulb could be made in 1901 that still works today, surely an energy efficient bulg could be made today that would last a long, long time.

The textbook example is one I'm quite familiar with.  I worked in managing a dept. in a college bookstore for 5 years and got endless complaints about how we kept selling new and more expensive editions each years.  I patiently told people again and again that it was the fault of the publishers who made shit loads of money making slight changes to texts in order or extort more money from students (and to an extent, this was also the fault of some of the instructors who went along with that.)