The coronavirus

HughFreakingDillon

Meltdown99 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

manitoba premier earlier today: "now don't go out and buy a head of lettuce and a colour tv!". LOL

Do you agree???

yep. 

I like the essentials only.  I never thought it was fair for the mom-and-pop clothing store...etc,  had to close but Walmart and Costco, and others made big profits...I work in schools in Ontario.  Are your schools closed?  

not yet. my high schooler goes half days, my elementary schooler goes full days. virtually no spread in the schools in winnipeg so far, which just shows to me it's the adults that are the real problem. 

lastexit78

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

new crazy restrictions in manitoba effective tomorrow. no one allowed in your house if they don't live there, with some exceptions (health care, child care, etc). stores only allowed to sell essentials. all other items are to be removed from shelves by saturday open. no outdoor gatherings of more than 5. ticket of $298 for not wearing a mask inside. 

That's going to put a pinch on places (if you have them) like Dollar Tree, Big Lots and Walmart that sell 90% crap in the first place.  I wonder how well they will be able to enforce all those restriction?

hey Brian, reading through these posts it appears we are neighbors, I grew up in El Dorado County, walked through Main St everyday on my way home from school. I currently live in Orangevale, sadly I think El Dorado County might end up being the COVID hotspot of Northern California soon. From the attitudes of friends and family up there to the blatant disregard for the stricter measures being put in place. Even by El Dorado County standards I thought the Sheriff's response to the curfew was misguided and reckless. Read a few of those comments and you kind of know where the majority of residents stand. Glad we have someone with common sense like yourself up there. Take care and good luck!

https://www.mtdemocrat.com/news/sheriff-will-not-enforce-curfew-order/

mace1229

F Me In The Brain said:

mace1229 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

new crazy restrictions in manitoba effective tomorrow. no one allowed in your house if they don't live there, with some exceptions (health care, child care, etc). stores only allowed to sell essentials. all other items are to be removed from shelves by saturday open. no outdoor gatherings of more than 5. ticket of $298 for not wearing a mask inside. 

I don’t get stores only selling essentials.  Does covid attach more to non essential items?

no, they just don't want anyone going to the store unless it is expressly for essentials. taking away non-essentials takes away many of the customers coming to get stuff they don't necessarily need at the moment.

cabela's worked around that restriction previously by starting to sell propane when they weren't before, because hey, everyone needs a new tent a bowie knife during a pandemic, right?

That’s why I thought the lockdown was stupid. Seemed to me like no reason behind what was and was t allowed to stay open. Costco can because 10% of their merchandise is essential, but other big store like Bass Pro and Cabalas can’t unless hey find a propane loophole. But to me I find Cabalas as essential, they sell warm outdoor clothing. That’s pretty essential in Colorado and probably even more up there.
Starbucks can stay open because everyone needs their $6 500 calorie morning latte, but a hobby store 10 times the size closes. The liquor store argument is dumb. I mean, if we’re really trying to limit the number of people going places, but your liquor when you go grocery shopping at the grocery store, and for a lot less money. 

There really seemed like no rhyme or reason as to what was open. But I think they should all be, just reduce capacity, have hand sanitizer, space people out, etc

Your criticism of the health concern around stopping the booze sale is what is dumb.  This is a real issue that real people would suffer from - and the people around the drunks would potentially be at risk, as well.
Your suggested loophole also does not work - there are states where you cannot buy booze at grocery stores.

Yes, there are some states where booze is not sold on big stores. Most do.  But okay, those can be exceptions.
I didn’t criticize the health concern around addicts. My point was, if you are truly trying to limit the number of people indoors and crowded spaces, why not have people buy their alcohol in a large store with more open space, where they already go to buy groceries anyway? So Instead you’re asking them to go to a second, smaller and probably more crowded store, to buy their alcohol. Too many places are considered essential. A full lockdown is really only about a 25% lockdown.
It just seems contradictory to me to say “hey everyone, stay at home unless absolutely necessary, and only go out as few times as possible to as few places as possible when you absolutely have to.” Then say “well you can buy your food and alcohol together here in one stop, but why don’t you just make a separate stop to your favorite corner liquor mart instead.” It’s almost like you’re not just trying to cater to an addict’s needs, but that they are exempt from any inconvenience that the rest of us experience.
In a full lockdown most places were still open unless it was a record store or nail salon (obviously I’m exaggerating, but a large number of stores were allowed to remain open). If you’re going to lock down then lock down. Don’t half-ass it so 75% of stores can find an excuse to stay open because they threw a roll of toilet paper on the shelf.
And in that scenario I think a lockdown is pointless, so I would prefer just strict guidelines instead.

People will not follow guidelines and most businesses have no grounds, legally, to enforce policies in the manner which might prove them useful. 

The Sacramento Sheriff came out and said, flatly, that they have no intention of supporting the restrictions CA just announced in their jurisdiction.  How in the heck are the stores meant to do this?

You are pulling numbers from thin air with your "25% lockdown" and "75% of stores can stay open."

From a webinar I participated in yesterday (retail is my business, we supports thousands of locations in North America and I work on a daily basis with Retail Operations and IT Executives) the update is pretty damn bleak for the larger population of retail sellers worldwide, but specifically in the US.  If a lockdown happens experts expect to lose another 400-500k retail businesses. 

Also...a snapshot of what year over year numbers look like across US retail segments:

There is (as always) a lot of information to unpack in slides like these, but the point is that everyone is getting kicked with the exception of e-tailers, grocers, mass merchants/club stores, and hard goods (HD, Lowes, Dick's, stores like that). 

Guess how many of those types are in your malls?  Almost none.  25/75 split you posed is way off. 

This is a subject I could type about for a long time -- and I also would love for there to be a way to avoid lock-downs -- but the idea that we just need to put rules in place is not a sound one.  Americans will not follow rules.  People are dying.

IMO, the govt needs to take drastic measures to support the people, and the businesses that are suffering, at the same time as conduct lock-downs in the hot spots. 

Leaving it willy-nilly is our worst possible approach.  Better to do nothing and all cram on the roller coaster to hell, together.

my 75/25 statement was a guess, I should have been clear about that. But malls? Most malls are closing or have been closed for years anyway, no one shops at malls anymore, and that has nothing to do with covid. Aren't mall retail stores a very small portion of stores today? The closest mall to my house is about 10 miles away and there's probably 10,000 stores between here and there, so I wouldn't put much consideration into how malls are doing in terms of the impact covid is having. 

I still don't think my 75% guess is going to be far off. In the first lockdown streets were still crwoded, there was still traffic, when I drive by a strip mall most stores are still open from lock smiths to dry cleaners, cafes, auto parts and coffee shops. Even Sherwin Williams remained open. I guess a paint store is considered essential?
And many stores that weren't essential still found a way to operate. The brew supply store had curbside pickup, you call, tell them what you want, they bring it your car and you hand them your credit card. Best Buy did the same thing.
So with so many exceptions to the lockdown I just see it as pointless. You force a small portion of the community to sacrifice and potentially close their business for good for something that didnt even work the first time. The local sports store was closed because it wasn't practical to have a curb side business, but the Target next door was operating like normal because they sold toilet paper, toilet paper that was never in stock and sold out immediately mind you. 
So I'm just not in favor of these half-assed lock downs. Do it right or don't do it. With as many exceptions as we have it is pointless.

cincybearcat

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

manitoba premier earlier today: "now don't go out and buy a head of lettuce and a colour tv!". LOL

Do you agree???

yep. 

I like the essentials only.  I never thought it was fair for the mom-and-pop clothing store...etc,  had to close but Walmart and Costco, and others made big profits...I work in schools in Ontario.  Are your schools closed?  

not yet. my high schooler goes half days, my elementary schooler goes full days. virtually no spread in the schools in winnipeg so far, which just shows to me it's the adults that are the real problem. 

I agree.  Well, as long as the school had the $ to get prepared.  My daughter's school has had probably 70% or more in school full days, 5 days a week from the beginning.  It's a middle school, so only 2 grades but that is like 1400 kids.  No in school transmission.  I am super impressed with the school's leadership, the teachers and the kids.  Was trying to talk about this before someone called me sexist and I got banned for reacting. 

HughFreakingDillon

cincybearcat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

manitoba premier earlier today: "now don't go out and buy a head of lettuce and a colour tv!". LOL

Do you agree???

yep. 

I like the essentials only.  I never thought it was fair for the mom-and-pop clothing store...etc,  had to close but Walmart and Costco, and others made big profits...I work in schools in Ontario.  Are your schools closed?  

not yet. my high schooler goes half days, my elementary schooler goes full days. virtually no spread in the schools in winnipeg so far, which just shows to me it's the adults that are the real problem. 

I agree.  Well, as long as the school had the $ to get prepared.  My daughter's school has had probably 70% or more in school full days, 5 days a week from the beginning.  It's a middle school, so only 2 grades but that is like 1400 kids.  No in school transmission.  I am super impressed with the school's leadership, the teachers and the kids.  Was trying to talk about this before someone called me sexist and I got banned for reacting. 

both my kids' schools are pretty small, so that's for sure a benefit.  

mace1229

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

new crazy restrictions in manitoba effective tomorrow. no one allowed in your house if they don't live there, with some exceptions (health care, child care, etc). stores only allowed to sell essentials. all other items are to be removed from shelves by saturday open. no outdoor gatherings of more than 5. ticket of $298 for not wearing a mask inside. 

I don’t get stores only selling essentials.  Does covid attach more to non essential items?

no, they just don't want anyone going to the store unless it is expressly for essentials. taking away non-essentials takes away many of the customers coming to get stuff they don't necessarily need at the moment.

cabela's worked around that restriction previously by starting to sell propane when they weren't before, because hey, everyone needs a new tent a bowie knife during a pandemic, right?

That’s why I thought the lockdown was stupid. Seemed to me like no reason behind what was and was t allowed to stay open. Costco can because 10% of their merchandise is essential, but other big store like Bass Pro and Cabalas can’t unless hey find a propane loophole. But to me I find Cabalas as essential, they sell warm outdoor clothing. That’s pretty essential in Colorado and probably even more up there.
Starbucks can stay open because everyone needs their $6 500 calorie morning latte, but a hobby store 10 times the size closes. The liquor store argument is dumb. I mean, if we’re really trying to limit the number of people going places, but your liquor when you go grocery shopping at the grocery store, and for a lot less money. 

There really seemed like no rhyme or reason as to what was open. But I think they should all be, just reduce capacity, have hand sanitizer, space people out, etc

Can't buy liquor at the grocery store here. 

i think the lockdown was a work in progress. this hasn't ever been done before in modern times, so the government and health authorities were learning as they went what worked, what didn't, what the public will tolerate and what they won't, and the risk/reward of each. not only that, but what businesses were willing to do to stay open. 

part of this lockdown that takes effect today is yes, winter clothing is allowed to be sold as well as underwear, but nothing else i don't think. 

the point of this lockdown is to reduce contacts. you close shit, people just won't go out. we have too many cases where contact tracing is impossible, which is a major factor in controlling the spread. and when tracing has been possible, people have had 50 contacts or more. that is just way too much and contributes to the exponential spread. 

it just sucks for most of us who are only going out for essentials already. but you have to cater to the stupid and irresponsible out there, and it's so frustrating. 

I agree with that. My point is there are far too many exceptions and it becomes pointless and small shops suffer for something that has zero positive impact because of the wide number of exceptions that actually benefit some of the big chains. 

OnWis97

cincybearcat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

manitoba premier earlier today: "now don't go out and buy a head of lettuce and a colour tv!". LOL

Do you agree???

yep. 

I like the essentials only.  I never thought it was fair for the mom-and-pop clothing store...etc,  had to close but Walmart and Costco, and others made big profits...I work in schools in Ontario.  Are your schools closed?  

not yet. my high schooler goes half days, my elementary schooler goes full days. virtually no spread in the schools in winnipeg so far, which just shows to me it's the adults that are the real problem. 

I agree.  Well, as long as the school had the $ to get prepared.  My daughter's school has had probably 70% or more in school full days, 5 days a week from the beginning.  It's a middle school, so only 2 grades but that is like 1400 kids.  No in school transmission.  I am super impressed with the school's leadership, the teachers and the kids.  Was trying to talk about this before someone called me sexist and I got banned for reacting. 

That's amazing. Are they changing classes all day or have they found a way for the teachers to move around? Thanks to not having kids, I have the luxury to have no opinion on whether this is the correct thing to do, but either way, I'd say that the school, teachers, and kids (and parents) are killin' it. With an assist from Lady Luck.

mace1229

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

manitoba premier earlier today: "now don't go out and buy a head of lettuce and a colour tv!". LOL

Do you agree???

yep. 

I like the essentials only.  I never thought it was fair for the mom-and-pop clothing store...etc,  had to close but Walmart and Costco, and others made big profits...I work in schools in Ontario.  Are your schools closed?  

not yet. my high schooler goes half days, my elementary schooler goes full days. virtually no spread in the schools in winnipeg so far, which just shows to me it's the adults that are the real problem. 

Are kids getting randomly tested, or only when they have symptoms? Because aren't kids a lot more likely to be asymptomatic, and if you only test when there's symptoms you might not show kids are transmitting it when they are.

cincybearcat

OnWis97 said:

cincybearcat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

manitoba premier earlier today: "now don't go out and buy a head of lettuce and a colour tv!". LOL

Do you agree???

yep. 

I like the essentials only.  I never thought it was fair for the mom-and-pop clothing store...etc,  had to close but Walmart and Costco, and others made big profits...I work in schools in Ontario.  Are your schools closed?  

not yet. my high schooler goes half days, my elementary schooler goes full days. virtually no spread in the schools in winnipeg so far, which just shows to me it's the adults that are the real problem. 

I agree.  Well, as long as the school had the $ to get prepared.  My daughter's school has had probably 70% or more in school full days, 5 days a week from the beginning.  It's a middle school, so only 2 grades but that is like 1400 kids.  No in school transmission.  I am super impressed with the school's leadership, the teachers and the kids.  Was trying to talk about this before someone called me sexist and I got banned for reacting. 

That's amazing. Are they changing classes all day or have they found a way for the teachers to move around? Thanks to not having kids, I have the luxury to have no opinion on whether this is the correct thing to do, but either way, I'd say that the school, teachers, and kids (and parents) are killin' it. With an assist from Lady Luck.

They move class to class.  They have 1 way hallways and only specific times to go to locker.  Everyone wears masks all day, except lunch.  Lunch room has plastic barriers up but kids are like 3 feet apart and a couple kids within each barrier I think....but assigned seating (well they let the kids pick the first day and then made them stay).  To create some pods.  No transmission in school (as of now).  And in reality, very few cases in that school.  The high school (2x as big) has had zero transmission in class...but have had transmission from extra-curriculars (mostly football team...but those kids listen about as well as the parents do)

The school had a plan, executed it and has been communicating.  I can be hard on the schools from time to time, but in this, they have been doing the best they can.  I really appreciate the work they put into it.  Yes some luck...but you can make some of your own luck.

HughFreakingDillon

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

manitoba premier earlier today: "now don't go out and buy a head of lettuce and a colour tv!". LOL

Do you agree???

yep. 

I like the essentials only.  I never thought it was fair for the mom-and-pop clothing store...etc,  had to close but Walmart and Costco, and others made big profits...I work in schools in Ontario.  Are your schools closed?  

not yet. my high schooler goes half days, my elementary schooler goes full days. virtually no spread in the schools in winnipeg so far, which just shows to me it's the adults that are the real problem. 

Are kids getting randomly tested, or only when they have symptoms? Because aren't kids a lot more likely to be asymptomatic, and if you only test when there's symptoms you might not show kids are transmitting it when they are.

no random testing. I hadn't heard that kids are more likely to be asymptomatic. I had heard they don't spread it as easily as adults, and that they don't yet know why. 

and if the kids were transmitting it, you'd think they'd be transmitting it to their parents and they'd find out that way if the kid had it. 

mace1229

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

manitoba premier earlier today: "now don't go out and buy a head of lettuce and a colour tv!". LOL

Do you agree???

yep. 

I like the essentials only.  I never thought it was fair for the mom-and-pop clothing store...etc,  had to close but Walmart and Costco, and others made big profits...I work in schools in Ontario.  Are your schools closed?  

not yet. my high schooler goes half days, my elementary schooler goes full days. virtually no spread in the schools in winnipeg so far, which just shows to me it's the adults that are the real problem. 

Are kids getting randomly tested, or only when they have symptoms? Because aren't kids a lot more likely to be asymptomatic, and if you only test when there's symptoms you might not show kids are transmitting it when they are.

no random testing. I hadn't heard that kids are more likely to be asymptomatic. I had heard they don't spread it as easily as adults, and that they don't yet know why. 

and if the kids were transmitting it, you'd think they'd be transmitting it to their parents and they'd find out that way if the kid had it. 

That's true. Are they keeping track who has it in the family then?

HughFreakingDillon

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

manitoba premier earlier today: "now don't go out and buy a head of lettuce and a colour tv!". LOL

Do you agree???

yep. 

I like the essentials only.  I never thought it was fair for the mom-and-pop clothing store...etc,  had to close but Walmart and Costco, and others made big profits...I work in schools in Ontario.  Are your schools closed?  

not yet. my high schooler goes half days, my elementary schooler goes full days. virtually no spread in the schools in winnipeg so far, which just shows to me it's the adults that are the real problem. 

Are kids getting randomly tested, or only when they have symptoms? Because aren't kids a lot more likely to be asymptomatic, and if you only test when there's symptoms you might not show kids are transmitting it when they are.

no random testing. I hadn't heard that kids are more likely to be asymptomatic. I had heard they don't spread it as easily as adults, and that they don't yet know why. 

and if the kids were transmitting it, you'd think they'd be transmitting it to their parents and they'd find out that way if the kid had it. 

That's true. Are they keeping track who has it in the family then?

who do you mean by "they"? if someone tests positive, they recommend everyone in that household and close contacts get tested. public health keeps it on record, for sure, if that's what you mean. 

GlowGirl

mace1229 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

mace1229 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

new crazy restrictions in manitoba effective tomorrow. no one allowed in your house if they don't live there, with some exceptions (health care, child care, etc). stores only allowed to sell essentials. all other items are to be removed from shelves by saturday open. no outdoor gatherings of more than 5. ticket of $298 for not wearing a mask inside. 

I don’t get stores only selling essentials.  Does covid attach more to non essential items?

no, they just don't want anyone going to the store unless it is expressly for essentials. taking away non-essentials takes away many of the customers coming to get stuff they don't necessarily need at the moment.

cabela's worked around that restriction previously by starting to sell propane when they weren't before, because hey, everyone needs a new tent a bowie knife during a pandemic, right?

That’s why I thought the lockdown was stupid. Seemed to me like no reason behind what was and was t allowed to stay open. Costco can because 10% of their merchandise is essential, but other big store like Bass Pro and Cabalas can’t unless hey find a propane loophole. But to me I find Cabalas as essential, they sell warm outdoor clothing. That’s pretty essential in Colorado and probably even more up there.
Starbucks can stay open because everyone needs their $6 500 calorie morning latte, but a hobby store 10 times the size closes. The liquor store argument is dumb. I mean, if we’re really trying to limit the number of people going places, but your liquor when you go grocery shopping at the grocery store, and for a lot less money. 

There really seemed like no rhyme or reason as to what was open. But I think they should all be, just reduce capacity, have hand sanitizer, space people out, etc

Your criticism of the health concern around stopping the booze sale is what is dumb.  This is a real issue that real people would suffer from - and the people around the drunks would potentially be at risk, as well.
Your suggested loophole also does not work - there are states where you cannot buy booze at grocery stores.

Yes, there are some states where booze is not sold on big stores. Most do.  But okay, those can be exceptions.
I didn’t criticize the health concern around addicts. My point was, if you are truly trying to limit the number of people indoors and crowded spaces, why not have people buy their alcohol in a large store with more open space, where they already go to buy groceries anyway? So Instead you’re asking them to go to a second, smaller and probably more crowded store, to buy their alcohol. Too many places are considered essential. A full lockdown is really only about a 25% lockdown.
It just seems contradictory to me to say “hey everyone, stay at home unless absolutely necessary, and only go out as few times as possible to as few places as possible when you absolutely have to.” Then say “well you can buy your food and alcohol together here in one stop, but why don’t you just make a separate stop to your favorite corner liquor mart instead.” It’s almost like you’re not just trying to cater to an addict’s needs, but that they are exempt from any inconvenience that the rest of us experience.
In a full lockdown most places were still open unless it was a record store or nail salon (obviously I’m exaggerating, but a large number of stores were allowed to remain open). If you’re going to lock down then lock down. Don’t half-ass it so 75% of stores can find an excuse to stay open because they threw a roll of toilet paper on the shelf.
And in that scenario I think a lockdown is pointless, so I would prefer just strict guidelines instead.

People will not follow guidelines and most businesses have no grounds, legally, to enforce policies in the manner which might prove them useful. 

The Sacramento Sheriff came out and said, flatly, that they have no intention of supporting the restrictions CA just announced in their jurisdiction.  How in the heck are the stores meant to do this?

You are pulling numbers from thin air with your "25% lockdown" and "75% of stores can stay open."

From a webinar I participated in yesterday (retail is my business, we supports thousands of locations in North America and I work on a daily basis with Retail Operations and IT Executives) the update is pretty damn bleak for the larger population of retail sellers worldwide, but specifically in the US.  If a lockdown happens experts expect to lose another 400-500k retail businesses. 

Also...a snapshot of what year over year numbers look like across US retail segments:

There is (as always) a lot of information to unpack in slides like these, but the point is that everyone is getting kicked with the exception of e-tailers, grocers, mass merchants/club stores, and hard goods (HD, Lowes, Dick's, stores like that). 

Guess how many of those types are in your malls?  Almost none.  25/75 split you posed is way off. 

This is a subject I could type about for a long time -- and I also would love for there to be a way to avoid lock-downs -- but the idea that we just need to put rules in place is not a sound one.  Americans will not follow rules.  People are dying.

IMO, the govt needs to take drastic measures to support the people, and the businesses that are suffering, at the same time as conduct lock-downs in the hot spots. 

Leaving it willy-nilly is our worst possible approach.  Better to do nothing and all cram on the roller coaster to hell, together.

my 75/25 statement was a guess, I should have been clear about that. But malls? Most malls are closing or have been closed for years anyway, no one shops at malls anymore, and that has nothing to do with covid. Aren't mall retail stores a very small portion of stores today? The closest mall to my house is about 10 miles away and there's probably 10,000 stores between here and there, so I wouldn't put much consideration into how malls are doing in terms of the impact covid is having. 

I still don't think my 75% guess is going to be far off. In the first lockdown streets were still crwoded, there was still traffic, when I drive by a strip mall most stores are still open from lock smiths to dry cleaners, cafes, auto parts and coffee shops. Even Sherwin Williams remained open. I guess a paint store is considered essential?
And many stores that weren't essential still found a way to operate. The brew supply store had curbside pickup, you call, tell them what you want, they bring it your car and you hand them your credit card. Best Buy did the same thing.
So with so many exceptions to the lockdown I just see it as pointless. You force a small portion of the community to sacrifice and potentially close their business for good for something that didnt even work the first time. The local sports store was closed because it wasn't practical to have a curb side business, but the Target next door was operating like normal because they sold toilet paper, toilet paper that was never in stock and sold out immediately mind you. 
So I'm just not in favor of these half-assed lock downs. Do it right or don't do it. With as many exceptions as we have it is pointless.

My high school self would be sad to see this about the malls. Malls were the center of our social life universe back then. No social media - so it was off to the mall.

dankind

GlowGirl said:

mace1229 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

mace1229 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

new crazy restrictions in manitoba effective tomorrow. no one allowed in your house if they don't live there, with some exceptions (health care, child care, etc). stores only allowed to sell essentials. all other items are to be removed from shelves by saturday open. no outdoor gatherings of more than 5. ticket of $298 for not wearing a mask inside. 

I don’t get stores only selling essentials.  Does covid attach more to non essential items?

no, they just don't want anyone going to the store unless it is expressly for essentials. taking away non-essentials takes away many of the customers coming to get stuff they don't necessarily need at the moment.

cabela's worked around that restriction previously by starting to sell propane when they weren't before, because hey, everyone needs a new tent a bowie knife during a pandemic, right?

That’s why I thought the lockdown was stupid. Seemed to me like no reason behind what was and was t allowed to stay open. Costco can because 10% of their merchandise is essential, but other big store like Bass Pro and Cabalas can’t unless hey find a propane loophole. But to me I find Cabalas as essential, they sell warm outdoor clothing. That’s pretty essential in Colorado and probably even more up there.
Starbucks can stay open because everyone needs their $6 500 calorie morning latte, but a hobby store 10 times the size closes. The liquor store argument is dumb. I mean, if we’re really trying to limit the number of people going places, but your liquor when you go grocery shopping at the grocery store, and for a lot less money. 

There really seemed like no rhyme or reason as to what was open. But I think they should all be, just reduce capacity, have hand sanitizer, space people out, etc

Your criticism of the health concern around stopping the booze sale is what is dumb.  This is a real issue that real people would suffer from - and the people around the drunks would potentially be at risk, as well.
Your suggested loophole also does not work - there are states where you cannot buy booze at grocery stores.

Yes, there are some states where booze is not sold on big stores. Most do.  But okay, those can be exceptions.
I didn’t criticize the health concern around addicts. My point was, if you are truly trying to limit the number of people indoors and crowded spaces, why not have people buy their alcohol in a large store with more open space, where they already go to buy groceries anyway? So Instead you’re asking them to go to a second, smaller and probably more crowded store, to buy their alcohol. Too many places are considered essential. A full lockdown is really only about a 25% lockdown.
It just seems contradictory to me to say “hey everyone, stay at home unless absolutely necessary, and only go out as few times as possible to as few places as possible when you absolutely have to.” Then say “well you can buy your food and alcohol together here in one stop, but why don’t you just make a separate stop to your favorite corner liquor mart instead.” It’s almost like you’re not just trying to cater to an addict’s needs, but that they are exempt from any inconvenience that the rest of us experience.
In a full lockdown most places were still open unless it was a record store or nail salon (obviously I’m exaggerating, but a large number of stores were allowed to remain open). If you’re going to lock down then lock down. Don’t half-ass it so 75% of stores can find an excuse to stay open because they threw a roll of toilet paper on the shelf.
And in that scenario I think a lockdown is pointless, so I would prefer just strict guidelines instead.

People will not follow guidelines and most businesses have no grounds, legally, to enforce policies in the manner which might prove them useful. 

The Sacramento Sheriff came out and said, flatly, that they have no intention of supporting the restrictions CA just announced in their jurisdiction.  How in the heck are the stores meant to do this?

You are pulling numbers from thin air with your "25% lockdown" and "75% of stores can stay open."

From a webinar I participated in yesterday (retail is my business, we supports thousands of locations in North America and I work on a daily basis with Retail Operations and IT Executives) the update is pretty damn bleak for the larger population of retail sellers worldwide, but specifically in the US.  If a lockdown happens experts expect to lose another 400-500k retail businesses. 

Also...a snapshot of what year over year numbers look like across US retail segments:

There is (as always) a lot of information to unpack in slides like these, but the point is that everyone is getting kicked with the exception of e-tailers, grocers, mass merchants/club stores, and hard goods (HD, Lowes, Dick's, stores like that). 

Guess how many of those types are in your malls?  Almost none.  25/75 split you posed is way off. 

This is a subject I could type about for a long time -- and I also would love for there to be a way to avoid lock-downs -- but the idea that we just need to put rules in place is not a sound one.  Americans will not follow rules.  People are dying.

IMO, the govt needs to take drastic measures to support the people, and the businesses that are suffering, at the same time as conduct lock-downs in the hot spots. 

Leaving it willy-nilly is our worst possible approach.  Better to do nothing and all cram on the roller coaster to hell, together.

my 75/25 statement was a guess, I should have been clear about that. But malls? Most malls are closing or have been closed for years anyway, no one shops at malls anymore, and that has nothing to do with covid. Aren't mall retail stores a very small portion of stores today? The closest mall to my house is about 10 miles away and there's probably 10,000 stores between here and there, so I wouldn't put much consideration into how malls are doing in terms of the impact covid is having. 

I still don't think my 75% guess is going to be far off. In the first lockdown streets were still crwoded, there was still traffic, when I drive by a strip mall most stores are still open from lock smiths to dry cleaners, cafes, auto parts and coffee shops. Even Sherwin Williams remained open. I guess a paint store is considered essential?
And many stores that weren't essential still found a way to operate. The brew supply store had curbside pickup, you call, tell them what you want, they bring it your car and you hand them your credit card. Best Buy did the same thing.
So with so many exceptions to the lockdown I just see it as pointless. You force a small portion of the community to sacrifice and potentially close their business for good for something that didnt even work the first time. The local sports store was closed because it wasn't practical to have a curb side business, but the Target next door was operating like normal because they sold toilet paper, toilet paper that was never in stock and sold out immediately mind you. 
So I'm just not in favor of these half-assed lock downs. Do it right or don't do it. With as many exceptions as we have it is pointless.

My high school self would be sad to see this about the malls. Malls were the center of our social life universe back then. No social media - so it was off to the mall.

Right? Where do kids buy their drugs these days?

mace1229

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

manitoba premier earlier today: "now don't go out and buy a head of lettuce and a colour tv!". LOL

Do you agree???

yep. 

I like the essentials only.  I never thought it was fair for the mom-and-pop clothing store...etc,  had to close but Walmart and Costco, and others made big profits...I work in schools in Ontario.  Are your schools closed?  

not yet. my high schooler goes half days, my elementary schooler goes full days. virtually no spread in the schools in winnipeg so far, which just shows to me it's the adults that are the real problem. 

Are kids getting randomly tested, or only when they have symptoms? Because aren't kids a lot more likely to be asymptomatic, and if you only test when there's symptoms you might not show kids are transmitting it when they are.

no random testing. I hadn't heard that kids are more likely to be asymptomatic. I had heard they don't spread it as easily as adults, and that they don't yet know why. 

and if the kids were transmitting it, you'd think they'd be transmitting it to their parents and they'd find out that way if the kid had it. 

That's true. Are they keeping track who has it in the family then?

who do you mean by "they"? if someone tests positive, they recommend everyone in that household and close contacts get tested. public health keeps it on record, for sure, if that's what you mean. 

They would be your school or whoever is keeping track of in school transmissions. My school was keeping track and used that data in part to determine to go full remote last week. The number if students testing positive was very low, but they also considered community transmission and other factors. According to our superintendent, "they" are tracking it, being county health officials and passing that information to the school.

F Me In The Brain

mace1229 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

mace1229 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

new crazy restrictions in manitoba effective tomorrow. no one allowed in your house if they don't live there, with some exceptions (health care, child care, etc). stores only allowed to sell essentials. all other items are to be removed from shelves by saturday open. no outdoor gatherings of more than 5. ticket of $298 for not wearing a mask inside. 

I don’t get stores only selling essentials.  Does covid attach more to non essential items?

no, they just don't want anyone going to the store unless it is expressly for essentials. taking away non-essentials takes away many of the customers coming to get stuff they don't necessarily need at the moment.

cabela's worked around that restriction previously by starting to sell propane when they weren't before, because hey, everyone needs a new tent a bowie knife during a pandemic, right?

That’s why I thought the lockdown was stupid. Seemed to me like no reason behind what was and was t allowed to stay open. Costco can because 10% of their merchandise is essential, but other big store like Bass Pro and Cabalas can’t unless hey find a propane loophole. But to me I find Cabalas as essential, they sell warm outdoor clothing. That’s pretty essential in Colorado and probably even more up there.
Starbucks can stay open because everyone needs their $6 500 calorie morning latte, but a hobby store 10 times the size closes. The liquor store argument is dumb. I mean, if we’re really trying to limit the number of people going places, but your liquor when you go grocery shopping at the grocery store, and for a lot less money. 

There really seemed like no rhyme or reason as to what was open. But I think they should all be, just reduce capacity, have hand sanitizer, space people out, etc

Your criticism of the health concern around stopping the booze sale is what is dumb.  This is a real issue that real people would suffer from - and the people around the drunks would potentially be at risk, as well.
Your suggested loophole also does not work - there are states where you cannot buy booze at grocery stores.

Yes, there are some states where booze is not sold on big stores. Most do.  But okay, those can be exceptions.
I didn’t criticize the health concern around addicts. My point was, if you are truly trying to limit the number of people indoors and crowded spaces, why not have people buy their alcohol in a large store with more open space, where they already go to buy groceries anyway? So Instead you’re asking them to go to a second, smaller and probably more crowded store, to buy their alcohol. Too many places are considered essential. A full lockdown is really only about a 25% lockdown.
It just seems contradictory to me to say “hey everyone, stay at home unless absolutely necessary, and only go out as few times as possible to as few places as possible when you absolutely have to.” Then say “well you can buy your food and alcohol together here in one stop, but why don’t you just make a separate stop to your favorite corner liquor mart instead.” It’s almost like you’re not just trying to cater to an addict’s needs, but that they are exempt from any inconvenience that the rest of us experience.
In a full lockdown most places were still open unless it was a record store or nail salon (obviously I’m exaggerating, but a large number of stores were allowed to remain open). If you’re going to lock down then lock down. Don’t half-ass it so 75% of stores can find an excuse to stay open because they threw a roll of toilet paper on the shelf.
And in that scenario I think a lockdown is pointless, so I would prefer just strict guidelines instead.

People will not follow guidelines and most businesses have no grounds, legally, to enforce policies in the manner which might prove them useful. 

The Sacramento Sheriff came out and said, flatly, that they have no intention of supporting the restrictions CA just announced in their jurisdiction.  How in the heck are the stores meant to do this?

You are pulling numbers from thin air with your "25% lockdown" and "75% of stores can stay open."

From a webinar I participated in yesterday (retail is my business, we supports thousands of locations in North America and I work on a daily basis with Retail Operations and IT Executives) the update is pretty damn bleak for the larger population of retail sellers worldwide, but specifically in the US.  If a lockdown happens experts expect to lose another 400-500k retail businesses. 

Also...a snapshot of what year over year numbers look like across US retail segments:

There is (as always) a lot of information to unpack in slides like these, but the point is that everyone is getting kicked with the exception of e-tailers, grocers, mass merchants/club stores, and hard goods (HD, Lowes, Dick's, stores like that). 

Guess how many of those types are in your malls?  Almost none.  25/75 split you posed is way off. 

This is a subject I could type about for a long time -- and I also would love for there to be a way to avoid lock-downs -- but the idea that we just need to put rules in place is not a sound one.  Americans will not follow rules.  People are dying.

IMO, the govt needs to take drastic measures to support the people, and the businesses that are suffering, at the same time as conduct lock-downs in the hot spots. 

Leaving it willy-nilly is our worst possible approach.  Better to do nothing and all cram on the roller coaster to hell, together.

my 75/25 statement was a guess, I should have been clear about that. But malls? Most malls are closing or have been closed for years anyway, no one shops at malls anymore, and that has nothing to do with covid. Aren't mall retail stores a very small portion of stores today? The closest mall to my house is about 10 miles away and there's probably 10,000 stores between here and there, so I wouldn't put much consideration into how malls are doing in terms of the impact covid is having. 

I still don't think my 75% guess is going to be far off.

OK, your 75/25 was a guess.

"But malls?"  -- are all of these guesses as well?

Your statements are pretty far off from factual, in most cases, and they sound like ones from Rudy G at a press conference @ the Four Seasons.

"Most malls are closing" -- no, wrong.  Malls are struggling but that is due to the over-saturation of brands/store types.  Any retail executive would admit that most chains have too many stores.  There will likely be continued closings - but the "most" type of verbiage you use is wrong.  If 25% of them close I think that would be high.  That is not most.  And, this is a projection over the next few years.  (Although, clearly COVID is rough on Malls and Mall Based Retailers.)

"Have been closed for years anyway" - no, wrong.  No reason to even explain how wrong that is.  Roughly 1,000 malls in the US.

"no one shops at malls anymore" - no, wrong.  Just an crazy statement.  Less than 20% of all retail sales was e-commerce last year.  Most studies came back with less than 15%.  There are roughly 1,000 malls in the US.

"Aren't mall retail stores a very small portion of stores today" - If you look at things based on sales vs. buildings, it is a very significant percentage.  If you want to just look at # of stores this is the closest thing you share to a fact in your statements.  I do not know the breakout but more stores would exist outside of mall environments, I do believe that.

"The closest mall to my house is about 10 miles away and there's probably 10,000 stores between here and there" - This is ridiculous.  You have 1,000 stores per mile?  There is a store every 5-6 feet? 

"so I wouldn't put much consideration into how malls are doing in terms of the impact covid is having" - well, your view can be your own but it is without the consideration of facts, numbers, and any broader considerations someone presenting this off the cuff type of string of statements should really have.   1,000 malls in the US.  How many people employed, on an average, at a mall?  I would have to check with the ICSC and I don't have our site password.  Malls are a major employer and a major area for retail sales to take a dive in the presence of COVID.

I do contend that the partial lock-downs or posting of rules will not work because of people.  Too many people think they are experts at things they are not -- and in most cases know next to nothing about.  I am not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV, nor did I even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.  My opinion is based largely on how we see people acting in the US. 

BTW, my business suffered tremendously this year -- and will continue to do so until things are better.  Another lock-down will cost me another tens of thousands of dollars.  IMO, making rules for reasonable behavior and expecting people to follow them after what we have seen in 2020 is not the way to go.  People will not follow....too selfish.

F Me In The Brain

GlowGirl said:

mace1229 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

mace1229 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

new crazy restrictions in manitoba effective tomorrow. no one allowed in your house if they don't live there, with some exceptions (health care, child care, etc). stores only allowed to sell essentials. all other items are to be removed from shelves by saturday open. no outdoor gatherings of more than 5. ticket of $298 for not wearing a mask inside. 

I don’t get stores only selling essentials.  Does covid attach more to non essential items?

no, they just don't want anyone going to the store unless it is expressly for essentials. taking away non-essentials takes away many of the customers coming to get stuff they don't necessarily need at the moment.

cabela's worked around that restriction previously by starting to sell propane when they weren't before, because hey, everyone needs a new tent a bowie knife during a pandemic, right?

That’s why I thought the lockdown was stupid. Seemed to me like no reason behind what was and was t allowed to stay open. Costco can because 10% of their merchandise is essential, but other big store like Bass Pro and Cabalas can’t unless hey find a propane loophole. But to me I find Cabalas as essential, they sell warm outdoor clothing. That’s pretty essential in Colorado and probably even more up there.
Starbucks can stay open because everyone needs their $6 500 calorie morning latte, but a hobby store 10 times the size closes. The liquor store argument is dumb. I mean, if we’re really trying to limit the number of people going places, but your liquor when you go grocery shopping at the grocery store, and for a lot less money. 

There really seemed like no rhyme or reason as to what was open. But I think they should all be, just reduce capacity, have hand sanitizer, space people out, etc

Your criticism of the health concern around stopping the booze sale is what is dumb.  This is a real issue that real people would suffer from - and the people around the drunks would potentially be at risk, as well.
Your suggested loophole also does not work - there are states where you cannot buy booze at grocery stores.

Yes, there are some states where booze is not sold on big stores. Most do.  But okay, those can be exceptions.
I didn’t criticize the health concern around addicts. My point was, if you are truly trying to limit the number of people indoors and crowded spaces, why not have people buy their alcohol in a large store with more open space, where they already go to buy groceries anyway? So Instead you’re asking them to go to a second, smaller and probably more crowded store, to buy their alcohol. Too many places are considered essential. A full lockdown is really only about a 25% lockdown.
It just seems contradictory to me to say “hey everyone, stay at home unless absolutely necessary, and only go out as few times as possible to as few places as possible when you absolutely have to.” Then say “well you can buy your food and alcohol together here in one stop, but why don’t you just make a separate stop to your favorite corner liquor mart instead.” It’s almost like you’re not just trying to cater to an addict’s needs, but that they are exempt from any inconvenience that the rest of us experience.
In a full lockdown most places were still open unless it was a record store or nail salon (obviously I’m exaggerating, but a large number of stores were allowed to remain open). If you’re going to lock down then lock down. Don’t half-ass it so 75% of stores can find an excuse to stay open because they threw a roll of toilet paper on the shelf.
And in that scenario I think a lockdown is pointless, so I would prefer just strict guidelines instead.

People will not follow guidelines and most businesses have no grounds, legally, to enforce policies in the manner which might prove them useful. 

The Sacramento Sheriff came out and said, flatly, that they have no intention of supporting the restrictions CA just announced in their jurisdiction.  How in the heck are the stores meant to do this?

You are pulling numbers from thin air with your "25% lockdown" and "75% of stores can stay open."

From a webinar I participated in yesterday (retail is my business, we supports thousands of locations in North America and I work on a daily basis with Retail Operations and IT Executives) the update is pretty damn bleak for the larger population of retail sellers worldwide, but specifically in the US.  If a lockdown happens experts expect to lose another 400-500k retail businesses. 

Also...a snapshot of what year over year numbers look like across US retail segments:

There is (as always) a lot of information to unpack in slides like these, but the point is that everyone is getting kicked with the exception of e-tailers, grocers, mass merchants/club stores, and hard goods (HD, Lowes, Dick's, stores like that). 

Guess how many of those types are in your malls?  Almost none.  25/75 split you posed is way off. 

This is a subject I could type about for a long time -- and I also would love for there to be a way to avoid lock-downs -- but the idea that we just need to put rules in place is not a sound one.  Americans will not follow rules.  People are dying.

IMO, the govt needs to take drastic measures to support the people, and the businesses that are suffering, at the same time as conduct lock-downs in the hot spots. 

Leaving it willy-nilly is our worst possible approach.  Better to do nothing and all cram on the roller coaster to hell, together.

my 75/25 statement was a guess, I should have been clear about that. But malls? Most malls are closing or have been closed for years anyway, no one shops at malls anymore, and that has nothing to do with covid. Aren't mall retail stores a very small portion of stores today? The closest mall to my house is about 10 miles away and there's probably 10,000 stores between here and there, so I wouldn't put much consideration into how malls are doing in terms of the impact covid is having. 

I still don't think my 75% guess is going to be far off. In the first lockdown streets were still crwoded, there was still traffic, when I drive by a strip mall most stores are still open from lock smiths to dry cleaners, cafes, auto parts and coffee shops. Even Sherwin Williams remained open. I guess a paint store is considered essential?
And many stores that weren't essential still found a way to operate. The brew supply store had curbside pickup, you call, tell them what you want, they bring it your car and you hand them your credit card. Best Buy did the same thing.
So with so many exceptions to the lockdown I just see it as pointless. You force a small portion of the community to sacrifice and potentially close their business for good for something that didnt even work the first time. The local sports store was closed because it wasn't practical to have a curb side business, but the Target next door was operating like normal because they sold toilet paper, toilet paper that was never in stock and sold out immediately mind you. 
So I'm just not in favor of these half-assed lock downs. Do it right or don't do it. With as many exceptions as we have it is pointless.

My high school self would be sad to see this about the malls. Malls were the center of our social life universe back then. No social media - so it was off to the mall.

A reminder to your most capable modern self (I was going to put 30 year old self, but that would be a little much?  ) that you would do well to believe half, or less, of what you read on the internet.  Certainly the rants from a bunch of us on a rock band web site message board.

His statements are totally Trump-ian, absent of fact.

Malls are in a bad way - but his statements are just silly.

Meltdown99

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

manitoba premier earlier today: "now don't go out and buy a head of lettuce and a colour tv!". LOL

Do you agree???

yep. 

I like the essentials only.  I never thought it was fair for the mom-and-pop clothing store...etc,  had to close but Walmart and Costco, and others made big profits...I work in schools in Ontario.  Are your schools closed?  

not yet. my high schooler goes half days, my elementary schooler goes full days. virtually no spread in the schools in winnipeg so far, which just shows to me it's the adults that are the real problem. 

Now are there financial support in place for the laid off workers, besides pogie...

HughFreakingDillon

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

manitoba premier earlier today: "now don't go out and buy a head of lettuce and a colour tv!". LOL

Do you agree???

yep. 

I like the essentials only.  I never thought it was fair for the mom-and-pop clothing store...etc,  had to close but Walmart and Costco, and others made big profits...I work in schools in Ontario.  Are your schools closed?  

not yet. my high schooler goes half days, my elementary schooler goes full days. virtually no spread in the schools in winnipeg so far, which just shows to me it's the adults that are the real problem. 

Are kids getting randomly tested, or only when they have symptoms? Because aren't kids a lot more likely to be asymptomatic, and if you only test when there's symptoms you might not show kids are transmitting it when they are.

no random testing. I hadn't heard that kids are more likely to be asymptomatic. I had heard they don't spread it as easily as adults, and that they don't yet know why. 

and if the kids were transmitting it, you'd think they'd be transmitting it to their parents and they'd find out that way if the kid had it. 

That's true. Are they keeping track who has it in the family then?

who do you mean by "they"? if someone tests positive, they recommend everyone in that household and close contacts get tested. public health keeps it on record, for sure, if that's what you mean. 

They would be your school or whoever is keeping track of in school transmissions. My school was keeping track and used that data in part to determine to go full remote last week. The number if students testing positive was very low, but they also considered community transmission and other factors. According to our superintendent, "they" are tracking it, being county health officials and passing that information to the school.

i don't know. since there hasn't been any real spread in schools, don't know who would be tasked with keeping track. i would guess the school would probably keep track of their own but public health also would. 

hedonist

dankind said:

GlowGirl said:

mace1229 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

mace1229 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

new crazy restrictions in manitoba effective tomorrow. no one allowed in your house if they don't live there, with some exceptions (health care, child care, etc). stores only allowed to sell essentials. all other items are to be removed from shelves by saturday open. no outdoor gatherings of more than 5. ticket of $298 for not wearing a mask inside. 

I don’t get stores only selling essentials.  Does covid attach more to non essential items?

no, they just don't want anyone going to the store unless it is expressly for essentials. taking away non-essentials takes away many of the customers coming to get stuff they don't necessarily need at the moment.

cabela's worked around that restriction previously by starting to sell propane when they weren't before, because hey, everyone needs a new tent a bowie knife during a pandemic, right?

That’s why I thought the lockdown was stupid. Seemed to me like no reason behind what was and was t allowed to stay open. Costco can because 10% of their merchandise is essential, but other big store like Bass Pro and Cabalas can’t unless hey find a propane loophole. But to me I find Cabalas as essential, they sell warm outdoor clothing. That’s pretty essential in Colorado and probably even more up there.
Starbucks can stay open because everyone needs their $6 500 calorie morning latte, but a hobby store 10 times the size closes. The liquor store argument is dumb. I mean, if we’re really trying to limit the number of people going places, but your liquor when you go grocery shopping at the grocery store, and for a lot less money. 

There really seemed like no rhyme or reason as to what was open. But I think they should all be, just reduce capacity, have hand sanitizer, space people out, etc

Your criticism of the health concern around stopping the booze sale is what is dumb.  This is a real issue that real people would suffer from - and the people around the drunks would potentially be at risk, as well.
Your suggested loophole also does not work - there are states where you cannot buy booze at grocery stores.

Yes, there are some states where booze is not sold on big stores. Most do.  But okay, those can be exceptions.
I didn’t criticize the health concern around addicts. My point was, if you are truly trying to limit the number of people indoors and crowded spaces, why not have people buy their alcohol in a large store with more open space, where they already go to buy groceries anyway? So Instead you’re asking them to go to a second, smaller and probably more crowded store, to buy their alcohol. Too many places are considered essential. A full lockdown is really only about a 25% lockdown.
It just seems contradictory to me to say “hey everyone, stay at home unless absolutely necessary, and only go out as few times as possible to as few places as possible when you absolutely have to.” Then say “well you can buy your food and alcohol together here in one stop, but why don’t you just make a separate stop to your favorite corner liquor mart instead.” It’s almost like you’re not just trying to cater to an addict’s needs, but that they are exempt from any inconvenience that the rest of us experience.
In a full lockdown most places were still open unless it was a record store or nail salon (obviously I’m exaggerating, but a large number of stores were allowed to remain open). If you’re going to lock down then lock down. Don’t half-ass it so 75% of stores can find an excuse to stay open because they threw a roll of toilet paper on the shelf.
And in that scenario I think a lockdown is pointless, so I would prefer just strict guidelines instead.

People will not follow guidelines and most businesses have no grounds, legally, to enforce policies in the manner which might prove them useful. 

The Sacramento Sheriff came out and said, flatly, that they have no intention of supporting the restrictions CA just announced in their jurisdiction.  How in the heck are the stores meant to do this?

You are pulling numbers from thin air with your "25% lockdown" and "75% of stores can stay open."

From a webinar I participated in yesterday (retail is my business, we supports thousands of locations in North America and I work on a daily basis with Retail Operations and IT Executives) the update is pretty damn bleak for the larger population of retail sellers worldwide, but specifically in the US.  If a lockdown happens experts expect to lose another 400-500k retail businesses. 

Also...a snapshot of what year over year numbers look like across US retail segments:

There is (as always) a lot of information to unpack in slides like these, but the point is that everyone is getting kicked with the exception of e-tailers, grocers, mass merchants/club stores, and hard goods (HD, Lowes, Dick's, stores like that). 

Guess how many of those types are in your malls?  Almost none.  25/75 split you posed is way off. 

This is a subject I could type about for a long time -- and I also would love for there to be a way to avoid lock-downs -- but the idea that we just need to put rules in place is not a sound one.  Americans will not follow rules.  People are dying.

IMO, the govt needs to take drastic measures to support the people, and the businesses that are suffering, at the same time as conduct lock-downs in the hot spots. 

Leaving it willy-nilly is our worst possible approach.  Better to do nothing and all cram on the roller coaster to hell, together.

my 75/25 statement was a guess, I should have been clear about that. But malls? Most malls are closing or have been closed for years anyway, no one shops at malls anymore, and that has nothing to do with covid. Aren't mall retail stores a very small portion of stores today? The closest mall to my house is about 10 miles away and there's probably 10,000 stores between here and there, so I wouldn't put much consideration into how malls are doing in terms of the impact covid is having. 

I still don't think my 75% guess is going to be far off. In the first lockdown streets were still crwoded, there was still traffic, when I drive by a strip mall most stores are still open from lock smiths to dry cleaners, cafes, auto parts and coffee shops. Even Sherwin Williams remained open. I guess a paint store is considered essential?
And many stores that weren't essential still found a way to operate. The brew supply store had curbside pickup, you call, tell them what you want, they bring it your car and you hand them your credit card. Best Buy did the same thing.
So with so many exceptions to the lockdown I just see it as pointless. You force a small portion of the community to sacrifice and potentially close their business for good for something that didnt even work the first time. The local sports store was closed because it wasn't practical to have a curb side business, but the Target next door was operating like normal because they sold toilet paper, toilet paper that was never in stock and sold out immediately mind you. 
So I'm just not in favor of these half-assed lock downs. Do it right or don't do it. With as many exceptions as we have it is pointless.

My high school self would be sad to see this about the malls. Malls were the center of our social life universe back then. No social media - so it was off to the mall.

Right? Where do kids buy their drugs these days?

Swipe it from their parents, duh.

(worked for me!)