Obama: Women "indisputably" better at leading

HughFreakingDillon

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/16/politics/barack-obama-women-are-better-than-men/index.html

I can't say I disagree with him. Although, is there really enough of a pool to draw from to come to such a conclusion? not to mention; 

Imagine Kellyanne as POTUS, for instance. Not all women are progressive. 

I found another comment quite interesting, and could be why he hasn't yet endorsed Biden in the Dem primary. 

"If you look at the world and look at the problems, it's usually old people, usually old men, not getting out of the way," he said. "It is important for political leaders to try and remind themselves that you are there to do a job, but you are not there for life, you are not there in order to prop up your own sense of self importance or your own power."

cincybearcat

Pandering...great.

It's an asinine comment.  Just as it would be if it was said about Men being better, or anything.  Really dumb. 

Ledbetterman10

cincybearcat said:

Pandering...great.

It's an asinine comment.  Just as it would be if it was said about Men being better, or anything.  Really dumb. 

He's been a little hard on the Dems in past few months. This will get him back in their good graces. 

And you're right, it is asinine to make a blanket statement like that. I thought Hillary could have been a good leader, but the fact that she's a woman had nothing to do with me thinking that. And I think Trump is a horrible leader, but the fact that he's an old man has nothing to do with me thinking that. 

HughFreakingDillon

cincybearcat said:

Pandering...great.

It's an asinine comment.  Just as it would be if it was said about Men being better, or anything.  Really dumb. 

now what motivation does he have to pander to females? And honestly, in my personal experience, comparing net positive experiences with male leaders and female ones over the past 25 years, I'd say females get the nod. 

are there bad female leaders? of course. my former female boss was a fucking asshole. our former female HR director was the devil incarnate. 

as i said, i don't know what he's drawing this conclusion from, but I would say it's high time we give women a kick at the can. males have fucked everything up royally for centuries. 

brianlux

Obama is so well spoken and generally has good things to say.  Making up shit is not his forte.

HughFreakingDillon said:

cincybearcat said:

Pandering...great.

It's an asinine comment.  Just as it would be if it was said about Men being better, or anything.  Really dumb. 

now what motivation does he have to pander to females? And honestly, in my personal experience, comparing net positive experiences with male leaders and female ones over the past 25 years, I'd say females get the nod. 

are there bad female leaders? of course. my former female boss was a fucking asshole. our former female HR director was the devil incarnate. 

as i said, i don't know what he's drawing this conclusion from, but I would say it's high time we give women a kick at the can. males have fucked everything up royally for centuries. 

I very much agree with that last part, I just don't think saying women are "indisputably" better at leading makes any sense.  I would say there have been great leader of both genders but very few of either today.

HughFreakingDillon

brianlux said:

Obama is so well spoken and generally has good things to say.  Making up shit is not his forte.

HughFreakingDillon said:

cincybearcat said:

Pandering...great.

It's an asinine comment.  Just as it would be if it was said about Men being better, or anything.  Really dumb. 

now what motivation does he have to pander to females? And honestly, in my personal experience, comparing net positive experiences with male leaders and female ones over the past 25 years, I'd say females get the nod. 

are there bad female leaders? of course. my former female boss was a fucking asshole. our former female HR director was the devil incarnate. 

as i said, i don't know what he's drawing this conclusion from, but I would say it's high time we give women a kick at the can. males have fucked everything up royally for centuries. 

I very much agree with that last part, I just don't think saying women are "indisputably" better at leading makes any sense.  I would say there have been great leader of both genders but very few of either today.

without proper context, I'm not going to accuse him of making shit up, but of course it's possible. it's just, as you stated, not his style. 

Ledbetterman10

"Indisputably" is a little pompous also. Since there's no proof that one gender is better at leading than the other, it's disputable. 

HughFreakingDillon

I've actually seen a lot of studies done on this very topic, and women are almost always the clear winner. However, I'm no expert on how these studies are carried out and what biases they may include. 

HughFreakingDillon

https://news.gallup.com/businessjournal/178541/why-women-better-managers-men.aspx

HughFreakingDillon

https://hbr.org/2019/02/research-are-women-better-at-leading-diverse-countries-than-men

HughFreakingDillon

that's just two articles. I scrolled through two pages of google searches and found only one that came to the conclusion that men were more effective at leading than women; and it was a blog. 

my google search was "who is better at leading? men or women?"

Ledbetterman10

HughFreakingDillon said:

that's just two articles. I scrolled through two pages of google searches and found only one that came to the conclusion that men were more effective at leading than women; and it was a blog. 

my google search was "who is better at leading? men or women?"

Fair enough (even though my female boss would NOT fit this narrative). 

HughFreakingDillon

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

that's just two articles. I scrolled through two pages of google searches and found only one that came to the conclusion that men were more effective at leading than women; and it was a blog. 

my google search was "who is better at leading? men or women?"

Fair enough (even though my female boss would NOT fit this narrative). 

of course it's not 100%, as I said, my last female boss was a fucking tyrant. 

hedonist

HughFreakingDillon said:

cincybearcat said:

Pandering...great.

It's an asinine comment.  Just as it would be if it was said about Men being better, or anything.  Really dumb. 

now what motivation does he have to pander to females? And honestly, in my personal experience, comparing net positive experiences with male leaders and female ones over the past 25 years, I'd say females get the nod. 

are there bad female leaders? of course. my former female boss was a fucking asshole. our former female HR director was the devil incarnate. 

as i said, i don't know what he's drawing this conclusion from, but I would say it's high time we give women a kick at the can. males have fucked everything up royally for centuries. 

I know it wasn't meant that way, but "give women a kick at the can" strikes me a pat on the head.  "Here, YOU try it now, little lady."

Again, not your intent,  just my take-away.

Anyway, I agree with the concensus - ascribing qualities or a higher level of leadership based on one's sex?  No thanks!

Jason P

HughFreakingDillon said:

cincybearcat said:

Pandering...great.

It's an asinine comment.  Just as it would be if it was said about Men being better, or anything.  Really dumb. 

now what motivation does he have to pander to females? And honestly, in my personal experience, comparing net positive experiences with male leaders and female ones over the past 25 years, I'd say females get the nod. 

are there bad female leaders? of course. my former female boss was a fucking asshole. our former female HR director was the devil incarnate. 

as i said, i don't know what he's drawing this conclusion from, but I would say it's high time we give women a kick at the can. males have fucked everything up royally for centuries. 

i don't know if I would use the term motivation.  strategy is a better term.  Where can the democrats possibly hope to make up ground to defeat Trump?  The answer, in my opinion, is turning GOP women voters.

HughFreakingDillon

hedonist said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

cincybearcat said:

Pandering...great.

It's an asinine comment.  Just as it would be if it was said about Men being better, or anything.  Really dumb. 

now what motivation does he have to pander to females? And honestly, in my personal experience, comparing net positive experiences with male leaders and female ones over the past 25 years, I'd say females get the nod. 

are there bad female leaders? of course. my former female boss was a fucking asshole. our former female HR director was the devil incarnate. 

as i said, i don't know what he's drawing this conclusion from, but I would say it's high time we give women a kick at the can. males have fucked everything up royally for centuries. 

I know it wasn't meant that way, but "give women a kick at the can" strikes me a pat on the head.  "Here, YOU try it now, little lady."

Again, not your intent,  just my take-away.

Anyway, I agree with the concensus - ascribing qualities or a higher level of leadership based on one's sex?  No thanks!

you are correct, that's not what i meant. i've been an advocate of getting more women in power for a long time. seriously, add just a smidge of EQ and the world would be a much better place. i know, as a guy who falls on the emotional spectrum closer to (stereotypical) female than male, i think it makes perfect sense for people in power to feel. 

HughFreakingDillon

hedonist said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

cincybearcat said:

Pandering...great.

It's an asinine comment.  Just as it would be if it was said about Men being better, or anything.  Really dumb. 

now what motivation does he have to pander to females? And honestly, in my personal experience, comparing net positive experiences with male leaders and female ones over the past 25 years, I'd say females get the nod. 

are there bad female leaders? of course. my former female boss was a fucking asshole. our former female HR director was the devil incarnate. 

as i said, i don't know what he's drawing this conclusion from, but I would say it's high time we give women a kick at the can. males have fucked everything up royally for centuries. 

I know it wasn't meant that way, but "give women a kick at the can" strikes me a pat on the head.  "Here, YOU try it now, little lady."

Again, not your intent,  just my take-away.

Anyway, I agree with the concensus - ascribing qualities or a higher level of leadership based on one's sex?  No thanks!

strange....i consider women and men to be quite different, and in many ways do possess different qualities in a general sense. do all women cry easier? no. are all men more aggressive then women? no. but generally there are things that each sex does a certain way. i personally don't think there's anything wrong with being open about those differences. 

pjl44

I'm supposed to believe he'd endorse Nikki Haley over someone like Pete Buttigieg?

hedonist

HughFreakingDillon said:

hedonist said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

cincybearcat said:

Pandering...great.

It's an asinine comment.  Just as it would be if it was said about Men being better, or anything.  Really dumb. 

now what motivation does he have to pander to females? And honestly, in my personal experience, comparing net positive experiences with male leaders and female ones over the past 25 years, I'd say females get the nod. 

are there bad female leaders? of course. my former female boss was a fucking asshole. our former female HR director was the devil incarnate. 

as i said, i don't know what he's drawing this conclusion from, but I would say it's high time we give women a kick at the can. males have fucked everything up royally for centuries. 

I know it wasn't meant that way, but "give women a kick at the can" strikes me a pat on the head.  "Here, YOU try it now, little lady."

Again, not your intent,  just my take-away.

Anyway, I agree with the concensus - ascribing qualities or a higher level of leadership based on one's sex?  No thanks!

strange....i consider women and men to be quite different, and in many ways do possess different qualities in a general sense. do all women cry easier? no. are all men more aggressive then women? no. but generally there are things that each sex does a certain way. i personally don't think there's anything wrong with being open about those differences. 

No no, not disputing the differences at all. In fact I celebrate them (“I don’t know how you guys walk around with those things” )

i just don’t subscribe to the gender of someone making them an inherently better leader. 

cincybearcat

hedonist said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

hedonist said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

cincybearcat said:

Pandering...great.

It's an asinine comment.  Just as it would be if it was said about Men being better, or anything.  Really dumb. 

now what motivation does he have to pander to females? And honestly, in my personal experience, comparing net positive experiences with male leaders and female ones over the past 25 years, I'd say females get the nod. 

are there bad female leaders? of course. my former female boss was a fucking asshole. our former female HR director was the devil incarnate. 

as i said, i don't know what he's drawing this conclusion from, but I would say it's high time we give women a kick at the can. males have fucked everything up royally for centuries. 

I know it wasn't meant that way, but "give women a kick at the can" strikes me a pat on the head.  "Here, YOU try it now, little lady."

Again, not your intent,  just my take-away.

Anyway, I agree with the concensus - ascribing qualities or a higher level of leadership based on one's sex?  No thanks!

strange....i consider women and men to be quite different, and in many ways do possess different qualities in a general sense. do all women cry easier? no. are all men more aggressive then women? no. but generally there are things that each sex does a certain way. i personally don't think there's anything wrong with being open about those differences. 

No no, not disputing the differences at all. In fact I celebrate them (“I don’t know how you guys walk around with those things” )

i just don’t subscribe to the gender of someone making them an inherently better leader. 

Bingo. It’s a very trumpish thing for Obama to say. Disappointed in this really. Women and men can both make amazing leaders 

HughFreakingDillon

i guess all the studies and surveys be damned, then.

brianlux

HughFreakingDillon said:

i guess all the studies and surveys be damned, then.

LOL, with a few exceptions...

Spiritual_Chaos

Its says something about a person who decides to put time and effort into going against this piece of common sense:

 "I'm absolutely confident that for two years, if every nation on Earth was run by women, you would see a significant improvement across the board on just about everything ... living standards and outcomes."

josevolution

cincybearcat said:

hedonist said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

hedonist said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

cincybearcat said:

Pandering...great.

It's an asinine comment.  Just as it would be if it was said about Men being better, or anything.  Really dumb. 

now what motivation does he have to pander to females? And honestly, in my personal experience, comparing net positive experiences with male leaders and female ones over the past 25 years, I'd say females get the nod. 

are there bad female leaders? of course. my former female boss was a fucking asshole. our former female HR director was the devil incarnate. 

as i said, i don't know what he's drawing this conclusion from, but I would say it's high time we give women a kick at the can. males have fucked everything up royally for centuries. 

I know it wasn't meant that way, but "give women a kick at the can" strikes me a pat on the head.  "Here, YOU try it now, little lady."

Again, not your intent,  just my take-away.

Anyway, I agree with the concensus - ascribing qualities or a higher level of leadership based on one's sex?  No thanks!

strange....i consider women and men to be quite different, and in many ways do possess different qualities in a general sense. do all women cry easier? no. are all men more aggressive then women? no. but generally there are things that each sex does a certain way. i personally don't think there's anything wrong with being open about those differences. 

No no, not disputing the differences at all. In fact I celebrate them (“I don’t know how you guys walk around with those things” )

i just don’t subscribe to the gender of someone making them an inherently better leader. 

Bingo. It’s a very trumpish thing for Obama to say. Disappointed in this really. Women and men can both make amazing leaders 

Well how would we know when this nation hasn’t had a female president yet all we’ve ever had here is men president’s, I say let’s give women a chance ! 

cincybearcat

josevolution said:

cincybearcat said:

hedonist said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

hedonist said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

cincybearcat said:

Pandering...great.

It's an asinine comment.  Just as it would be if it was said about Men being better, or anything.  Really dumb. 

now what motivation does he have to pander to females? And honestly, in my personal experience, comparing net positive experiences with male leaders and female ones over the past 25 years, I'd say females get the nod. 

are there bad female leaders? of course. my former female boss was a fucking asshole. our former female HR director was the devil incarnate. 

as i said, i don't know what he's drawing this conclusion from, but I would say it's high time we give women a kick at the can. males have fucked everything up royally for centuries. 

I know it wasn't meant that way, but "give women a kick at the can" strikes me a pat on the head.  "Here, YOU try it now, little lady."

Again, not your intent,  just my take-away.

Anyway, I agree with the concensus - ascribing qualities or a higher level of leadership based on one's sex?  No thanks!

strange....i consider women and men to be quite different, and in many ways do possess different qualities in a general sense. do all women cry easier? no. are all men more aggressive then women? no. but generally there are things that each sex does a certain way. i personally don't think there's anything wrong with being open about those differences. 

No no, not disputing the differences at all. In fact I celebrate them (“I don’t know how you guys walk around with those things” )

i just don’t subscribe to the gender of someone making them an inherently better leader. 

Bingo. It’s a very trumpish thing for Obama to say. Disappointed in this really. Women and men can both make amazing leaders 

Well how would we know when this nation hasn’t had a female president yet all we’ve ever had here is men president’s, I say let’s give women a chance ! 

I agree. 

pjl44

If the primaries in 2016 had shaken out differently, who here would have voted for Carly Fiorina over Bernie Sanders?

HughFreakingDillon

pjl44 said:

If the primaries in 2016 had shaken out differently, who here would have voted for Carly Fiorina over Bernie Sanders?

all this being said, I'm not advocating for just voting for any woman for the mere sake of it. any person has to be a good leader and sound ideas. I vote quality over everything else, I just think that more people need to see the benefits of female leaders. 

If I was american, and with the benefit of hindsight, I probably would have voted Sanders over Clinton in the primaries. at the time I may have chosen Clinton. 

cincybearcat

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjl44 said:

If the primaries in 2016 had shaken out differently, who here would have voted for Carly Fiorina over Bernie Sanders?

all this being said, I'm not advocating for just voting for any woman for the mere sake of it. any person has to be a good leader and sound ideas. I vote quality over everything else, I just think that more people need to see the benefits of female leaders. 

If I was american, and with the benefit of hindsight, I probably would have voted Sanders over Clinton in the primaries. at the time I may have chosen Clinton. 

Hillary is 100x the leader Sanders is. Then again...so are most people.

HughFreakingDillon

cincybearcat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjl44 said:

If the primaries in 2016 had shaken out differently, who here would have voted for Carly Fiorina over Bernie Sanders?

all this being said, I'm not advocating for just voting for any woman for the mere sake of it. any person has to be a good leader and sound ideas. I vote quality over everything else, I just think that more people need to see the benefits of female leaders. 

If I was american, and with the benefit of hindsight, I probably would have voted Sanders over Clinton in the primaries. at the time I may have chosen Clinton. 

Hillary is 100x the leader Sanders is. Then again...so are most people.

how so? is it his policies or his style?

cincybearcat

HughFreakingDillon said:

cincybearcat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjl44 said:

If the primaries in 2016 had shaken out differently, who here would have voted for Carly Fiorina over Bernie Sanders?

all this being said, I'm not advocating for just voting for any woman for the mere sake of it. any person has to be a good leader and sound ideas. I vote quality over everything else, I just think that more people need to see the benefits of female leaders. 

If I was american, and with the benefit of hindsight, I probably would have voted Sanders over Clinton in the primaries. at the time I may have chosen Clinton. 

Hillary is 100x the leader Sanders is. Then again...so are most people.

how so? is it his policies or his style?

Style. Plus - she’s a woman so my opinion is indisputable. 

pjl44

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjl44 said:

If the primaries in 2016 had shaken out differently, who here would have voted for Carly Fiorina over Bernie Sanders?

all this being said, I'm not advocating for just voting for any woman for the mere sake of it. any person has to be a good leader and sound ideas. I vote quality over everything else, I just think that more people need to see the benefits of female leaders. 

If I was american, and with the benefit of hindsight, I probably would have voted Sanders over Clinton in the primaries. at the time I may have chosen Clinton. 

Of course. Which is why I think Obama's statement is pandering and people carrying on about needing a woman to lead are just virtue signaling. At the end of the day, you're going to back candidates that best match your beliefs. People only use this argument when these things conveniently align.