Black Keys Turn Away Fans With Tickets Bought Through Scalpers

Merkin Baller

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-09-20/black-keys-wiltern-tickets-ticketmaster

PJNB

I hate the communication and they way they did this but I do like that they are now not using a static image. If Pearl Jam is going mobile for 10 club tickets here on out I would love for them to use this with one ticket transferable and one stuck to the original member. 

pjl44

Interesting. TM and the band claim this was communicated from day one, but then others are saying it was a last minute decision. I'm inclined to believe the former, but I can't really get at the truth from the article. 

I'll say this is some extremely shady wording by SeatGeek and is part of what leads me to believe the people selling on their site are ultimately at fault:

josevolution

Screw that the more shit like this happens the more I stay away from big name acts and their ticket fiascos , give me a bar with a decent no name bands pay at the door I’m good to go !

DewieCox

josevolution said:

Screw that the more shit like this happens the more I stay away from big name acts and their ticket fiascos , give me a bar with a decent no name bands pay at the door I’m good to go !

Only decent no name bands play in bars. That’s what best you’ll ever get.

HughFreakingDillon

i don't understand this rotating barcode thing. were the tickets legit or not? 

deadendp

I think it's Live Nation who has the QR code that refreshes every 45 seconds or so. The MLB All Star concert had a lil rolling baseball on the screen. You can't use a screenshot with either one. 

pjl44

HughFreakingDillon said:

i don't understand this rotating barcode thing. were the tickets legit or not? 

It *sounds* like they were not for resale and some people tried to ignore that and sell on StubHub, etc. anyway. Now I don't *think* the band/TM/whomever explained what measures were in place to prevent resale (you can't transfer these e-tickets - you have to open the app on your phone where the barcode or qr code is constantly changing). So resellers were overconfident and got burned.

(Remember the 2018 PJ ballpark shows where you could text a screenshot and it would work? If PJ had employed this technology, people with screenshots would have been turned away.)

I feel bad for the people who bought them, as they probably had no idea. It's the resellers and, by proxy, the sites who are at fault as far as I can tell. Some people are trying to blame the band.

drakeheuer14

Are they doing it because ticket sales were pretty poor? Trying to avoid people dumping them instead of getting new seats?

pjl44

drakeheuer14 said:

Are they doing it because ticket sales were pretty poor? Trying to avoid people dumping them instead of getting new seats?

No - the opposite. They played the Wiltern and only charged fans $25. So the deal was "hey, we'll play a place way too small for us and sell you a cheap ticket but if you buy them you can't transfer them."

drakeheuer14

pjl44 said:

drakeheuer14 said:

Are they doing it because ticket sales were pretty poor? Trying to avoid people dumping them instead of getting new seats?

No - the opposite. They played the Wiltern and only charged fans $25. So the deal was "hey, we'll play a place way too small for us and sell you a cheap ticket but if you buy them you can't transfer them."

Ah, I skipped the article completely, whoops! 

pjhawks

i'm on the fence about this. I like the idea of using something like this for 10 Club seats but not regular seats. The way 10C is doing seats these days it makes it difficult to get more than like one show, especially anywhere within driving distance in the Northeast.  I've used stub hub for some PJ shows and others like the Who this year. I don't even try for regular on sale ticketmaster seats. it's impossible anyway.  so to me having stub hub available is a good thing.

Merkin Baller

According to the article: ""The presenters of the concert directed that these tickets be made available only to fans and that they be strictly nontransferable,” Ticketmaster said in a statement. “This was messaged from the beginning with the announcement of the performance and throughout the sales process.””
If this is true, than the responsibility for this fiasco is 100% on those who sold the tickets and also the agencies like Stubhub etc. If 3rd party vendors are going to facilitate (& profit from) these sales, they should be responsible to know what tickets they can and can't resell, just as much as the original reseller. It just sucks that the fans who bought the tickets thorough these third parties are the collateral damage.
I applaud efforts to stamp out scalping, but my problem is this: if Ticketmaster was still able to resell these Black Keys tickets through their verified resale program, then this just means they shut out their competition, cornering the resale market for themselves which would be even bigger bullshit. IDK if this was the case for this Black Keys show or not, but I know this: tickets for Tool's tour that were sold through Ticketmaster were advertised as non-transferrable, but there are currently plenty to be bought through TM's resale program right now for a huge markup... if they turn away fans who resold their tickets through anyone EXCEPT Ticketmaster, than they just took one step towards owning exclusivity over the resale of all TM tickets which will be even worse for consumers.  
I would love to see the ticket scalping industry curtailed, if not completely eradicated, but if the entire industry isn't on board with the solution, you're probably just shoveling shit against the tide.

kasedoug

Merkin Baller said:

According to the article: ""The presenters of the concert directed that these tickets be made available only to fans and that they be strictly nontransferable,” Ticketmaster said in a statement. “This was messaged from the beginning with the announcement of the performance and throughout the sales process.””

If this is true, than the responsibility for this fiasco is 100% on those who sold the tickets and also the agencies like Stubhub etc. If 3rd party vendors are going to facilitate (& profit from) these sales, they should be responsible to know what tickets they can and can't resell, just as much as the original reseller. It just sucks that the fans who bought the tickets thorough these third parties are the collateral damage.

I applaud efforts to stamp out scalping, but my problem is this: if Ticketmaster was still able to resell these Black Keys tickets through their verified resale program, then this just means they shut out their competition, cornering the resale market for themselves which would be even bigger bullshit. 

IDK if this was the case for this Black Keys show or not, but I know this: tickets for Tool's tour that were sold through Ticketmaster were advertised as non-transferrable, but there are currently plenty to be bought through TM's resale program right now for a huge markup... if they turn away fans who resold their tickets through anyone EXCEPT Ticketmaster, than they just took one step towards owning exclusivity over the resale of all TM tickets which will be even worse for consumers.

 
I would love to see the ticket scalping industry curtailed, if not completely eradicated, but if the entire industry isn't on board with the solution, you're probably just shoveling shit against the tide.

As someone who was actually at the show and had a StubHub ticket turned away but thankfully I was still able to get into the show because I also won tickets the night before, I can tell you it really wasn't abundantly clear that tickets could not be transferred when they went on pre-sale the week before the show. The only messaging was that it was going to be mobile entry only, and that tickets wouldn't be released until 24 hours before the show. Nowhere did it clearly say that "tickets are not transferable, you must arrive with your entire party and enter at the same time" so I thought that maybe you could transfer 1 ticket like with the PJ ballpark shows so I decided to take the risk because I bought early on before the price more than doubled since I knew those early resellers were selling themselves short based on their prices.

There have also been instances that I've experienced with other events that were mobile entry with supposed rotating barcodes that I've been able to get in with a static screenshot. One example being Dodger games that has the rolling baseball that deadendp mentioned above as a friend is a season ticket holder and will always text me a screenshot of a ticket whenever I'm joining him from games. I'm still able to get in with the screenshot even though when I buy them firsthand and have them loaded into my app, it has the rolling ball. 

Anyways, the Black Keys and TM/Live Nation had the right idea but it wasn't abundantly clear from the beginning like they claim. The fault does really lie with StubHub, SeatGeek, Vivid and the other third-party sites for listing those shows for people to resell and their lack of due diligence for not knowing the tickets couldn't be transferred. When I bought my ticket on StubHub after getting shut out of the pre-sales, I bought it under the terms that it would be transferred to me via TM direct transfer. When that wasn't an option, StubHub changed the terms the morning of the show and allowed resellers to upload static screenshots to try to fulfill the orders because StubHub ultimately wanted all that fee money they charge buyers and sellers. I would have never bought if I knew it was going to be a screenshot of a ticket which could technically be resold multiple times. Luckily I was near the front of the line so when my ticket got declined, I got right through to a StubHub rep and demanded a refund. Felt terrible having to turn somebody away though that was going to come with me on my extra, but luckily I had another friend who was persistent and eventually the door staff he was dealing with relented and let them in as the band was taking the stage so everyone connected to my party eventually all got in. StubHub sent out a follow up email apologizing and trying to lay blame with TM/LN, saying they "strongly disagree with this practice" of non-transferable tickets. Well, of course they disagree because that cuts them out of the equation. They also mentioned that in addition to a full refund, I would be getting a StubHub credit for the trouble. However, I think they then tried to get out of that promise after the fact because an hour after that email, they sent out an email claiming the show had been "cancelled," and only saying I'd be receiving a full refund with no mention of the site credit for their mishap. That was a straight up lie so I called the day after to demand the credit be applied to my account, which I received right then. 

Anyways, after getting all that sorted out and actually getting into the show I enjoyed it. It was really cool to see them dust off some old songs like "10 A.M. Automatic" and "thickfreakness," which they had drifted away from on the previous few tours. Kind of restored my faith in them to see some of that old stuff reintroduced. New stuff sounded really good live. Wish they would have played "Shine A Little Light" which is one of my favorites on the new album. I don't have a ticket yet for the arena tour but based on them peppering in those old songs, I'll probably try to catch them when they come back around.

deadendp

kasedoug said:

Merkin Baller said:

According to the article: ""The presenters of the concert directed that these tickets be made available only to fans and that they be strictly nontransferable,” Ticketmaster said in a statement. “This was messaged from the beginning with the announcement of the performance and throughout the sales process.””

If this is true, than the responsibility for this fiasco is 100% on those who sold the tickets and also the agencies like Stubhub etc. If 3rd party vendors are going to facilitate (& profit from) these sales, they should be responsible to know what tickets they can and can't resell, just as much as the original reseller. It just sucks that the fans who bought the tickets thorough these third parties are the collateral damage.

I applaud efforts to stamp out scalping, but my problem is this: if Ticketmaster was still able to resell these Black Keys tickets through their verified resale program, then this just means they shut out their competition, cornering the resale market for themselves which would be even bigger bullshit. 

IDK if this was the case for this Black Keys show or not, but I know this: tickets for Tool's tour that were sold through Ticketmaster were advertised as non-transferrable, but there are currently plenty to be bought through TM's resale program right now for a huge markup... if they turn away fans who resold their tickets through anyone EXCEPT Ticketmaster, than they just took one step towards owning exclusivity over the resale of all TM tickets which will be even worse for consumers.

 
I would love to see the ticket scalping industry curtailed, if not completely eradicated, but if the entire industry isn't on board with the solution, you're probably just shoveling shit against the tide.

As someone who was actually at the show and had a StubHub ticket turned away but thankfully I was still able to get into the show because I also won tickets the night before, I can tell you it really wasn't abundantly clear that tickets could not be transferred when they went on pre-sale the week before the show. The only messaging was that it was going to be mobile entry only, and that tickets wouldn't be released until 24 hours before the show. Nowhere did it clearly say that "tickets are not transferable, you must arrive with your entire party and enter at the same time" so I thought that maybe you could transfer 1 ticket like with the PJ ballpark shows so I decided to take the risk because I bought early on before the price more than doubled since I knew those early resellers were selling themselves short based on their prices.

There have also been instances that I've experienced with other events that were mobile entry with supposed rotating barcodes that I've been able to get in with a static screenshot. One example being Dodger games that has the rolling baseball that deadendp mentioned above as a friend is a season ticket holder and will always text me a screenshot of a ticket whenever I'm joining him from games. I'm still able to get in with the screenshot even though when I buy them firsthand and have them loaded into my app, it has the rolling ball. 

Anyways, the Black Keys and TM/Live Nation had the right idea but it wasn't abundantly clear from the beginning like they claim. The fault does really lie with StubHub, SeatGeek, Vivid and the other third-party sites for listing those shows for people to resell and their lack of due diligence for not knowing the tickets couldn't be transferred. When I bought my ticket on StubHub after getting shut out of the pre-sales, I bought it under the terms that it would be transferred to me via TM direct transfer. When that wasn't an option, StubHub changed the terms the morning of the show and allowed resellers to upload static screenshots to try to fulfill the orders because StubHub ultimately wanted all that fee money they charge buyers and sellers. I would have never bought if I knew it was going to be a screenshot of a ticket which could technically be resold multiple times. Luckily I was near the front of the line so when my ticket got declined, I got right through to a StubHub rep and demanded a refund. Felt terrible having to turn somebody away though that was going to come with me on my extra, but luckily I had another friend who was persistent and eventually the door staff he was dealing with relented and let them in as the band was taking the stage so everyone connected to my party eventually all got in. StubHub sent out a follow up email apologizing and trying to lay blame with TM/LN, saying they "strongly disagree with this practice" of non-transferable tickets. Well, of course they disagree because that cuts them out of the equation. They also mentioned that in addition to a full refund, I would be getting a StubHub credit for the trouble. However, I think they then tried to get out of that promise after the fact because an hour after that email, they sent out an email claiming the show had been "cancelled," and only saying I'd be receiving a full refund with no mention of the site credit for their mishap. That was a straight up lie so I called the day after to demand the credit be applied to my account, which I received right then. 

Anyways, after getting all that sorted out and actually getting into the show I enjoyed it. It was really cool to see them dust off some old songs like "10 A.M. Automatic" and "thickfreakness," which they had drifted away from on the previous few tours. Kind of restored my faith in them to see some of that old stuff reintroduced. New stuff sounded really good live. Wish they would have played "Shine A Little Light" which is one of my favorites on the new album. I don't have a ticket yet for the arena tour but based on them peppering in those old songs, I'll probably try to catch them when they come back around.

I'm glad that everyone in your party was eventually able to get in. 

When we took our daughter to see Twenty One Pilots for the MLB All Star Concert, they did check to see if the baseball was rolling back and forth when they scanned the tickets. I took screenshots in case there were internet issues, but I wouldn't have been able to use it there anyway.