Do you really see a shitty world out there?

tempo_n_groove

oftenreading said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

usually find what you look for......

From what I understand Bono is still looking...

That was 32 years ago. He’s either found it by now, or he stopped looking. 

Man, I don't know? You see the glasses he's been wearing?  I swear he's still looking...

PJ_Soul

I just think you should unfriend that one friend who is a racist against black people. Nobody needs a friend like that, and nobody like that deserves friends. IMO.

benjs

lbpeltz said:

It’s almost taken as a given now when a talking head says something to the effect of, “our country (usa) is more divided than we’ve ever been”. There are a lot of different places one can go with this statement, but I really don’t see that much conflict on a day to day basis. Here’s where I’m coming from and here are some observations...

I’m a 30 something year old attorney from Connecticut. I’m a white guy. 
All the people I went to law school with are employed. 
All the guys from my three men’s league hockey teams are employed, and of about 40 different guys, 3-4 aren’t really settled in at career track jobs. 
The people who I know that are in financial difficulties are all clients of mine. 
My client base is made up of about 250 active clients, I would say 55%-60% are black. 
There are plenty of black lawyers in my area, so of any of my clients gave a flying hoot about wanting a black lawyer, they sure as shit wouldn’t hire me. I dont have any black people who are racist towards white people in my life. 
Of my friends, I have one white friend who I would truly consider a racist towards black people.
Of my friends and acquaintances, almost all the white, hard core libs, would say that same shit that Biden did about poor kids being just as smart as white kids. It’s serious soft bigotry of low expectation bullshit. 
My chance of being killed by a mass shooter are pretty low. I have 5000% higher chance of specifically being killed by an angry client of something. The chance of me being randomly killed or killed at war is historically low. 
I get really depressed sometimes, but it’s always the result of some personal or interpersonal issues, not a societal one. 
I’m much more prone to think this world is going to hell in a handbasket after watching the news. 

The huge negative societal issue that I run into on a day to day and year to year is the complete cycle of hopeless amongst a huge majority of the black community. Subpar schooling, fatherlessness, young mothers, violence, joblessness, poverty and no hope of getting out. If I was to structure political views and plans just around what I see, this would be issue number 1. 

Most of all, the world I see on tv sounds appreciably worse than the one I see with my eyes, just wondering if it’s the same with you guys. 

I hate to say that I really do see a shitty world out there. 

1) We've been divided in the past, but we've also been able to come to the same table and argue our opposing positions civilly, and even (dare I say) learn and modify our perspectives when presented with reason. Now, we do not come to the same table, we don't argue positions civilly (or even logically usually), and we typically are closed-minded to all but those who agree with us, which is more of an echo chamber than a debate. This lack of exposure to thought diversity threatens all of our progress, regardless of our beliefs.
2) Yes, mass media is a megaphone for shitty news (which sells better), amplifying the ills of the world until we're completely inundated with them. With that said, it's plausible to me that it's been this shitty for some time, just with the way communications happen digitally, gaining access to formerly private information now happens all the time through leaks and whatnot (aka same shit, new exposure). So, not quite saying "it was never shitty, and it still never is" - more saying "it likely always was shitty, and it still is".
3) Two very serious existential threats (the climate and nuclear proliferation) do not even have consensus amongst our populations as being very serious existential threats. When we should all be at the point where we're enacting policies to prevent catastrophe, and we're stuck on convincing people that these threats are real - it doesn't leave me enormously hopeful about our ability to think big-picture when unity is needed.
4) The short-term greed potential is arguably greater than ever. Supporting the greater good typically involves longer-term sacrifices that people don't want to make, and when those who have seen their wealth correlated with how much power they have succeeded at concentrating, they have little to no impetus to change that approach.
5) The powerless don't have the power to make their lives better, and the powerful criticize the powerless for not pulling up their bootstraps to get something started. This creates more class-based animosity and division. 

Depending on how much the factors above weigh into your own worldview relative to your day-to-day concerns, it's extremely easy to me to see the world as predominantly shitty with such themes of apathy, willful ignorance, deception, undue thought control being on full display, and threatening our future. I believe overcoming the realities above is paramount to our existence, and unlikely to be attained - so I see the world as shitty (and getting shittier). 

mrussel1

Thoughts_Arrive said:

the world is going to get a whole lot uglier when China's military is bigger and mightier than that of the US and they start invading countries in the Asia/Pacific with their military. 

Totally disagree.  The age of warfare is over.  Economic interdependence has curtailed the primary reason for war.  MAD is the other disincentive.  Economic warfare, like we have at a minor scale today is the future. 

mrussel1

I don't think the world is nearly as bad as it has been historically.  Egalitarian opportunity has never been stronger in this country.  Yes, some people are left behind, but capitalism always leaves people behind.  The difference today is "who" is being left behind.  Today, it's more about your education level and/or skills, not your color, race, creed.  

mcgruff10

I honestly don't think the world is as bad as it seems; all the negative things we witness have been around forever but now we are seeing it all instantly because of social media and 24/7 news.  

Spiritual_Chaos

mrussel1 said:

I don't think the world is nearly as bad as it has been historically.  Egalitarian opportunity has never been stronger in this country.  Yes, some people are left behind, but capitalism always leaves people behind.  The difference today is "who" is being left behind.  Today, it's more about your education level and/or skills, not your color, race, creed.  

The world has never been better. From global poverty to inequality between nations, all the indicators are showing progress. This is a comforting narrative – popularized by the likes of Bill Gates and Steven Pinker. But is it true? Jason Hickel examines the rise of this so-called ‘New Optimism’.

https://newint.org/features/2019/07/01/long-read-progress-and-its-discontents

pearljammr78

brianlux said:

lbpeltz said:

brianlux said:

lbpeltz said:

It’s almost taken as a given now when a talking head says something to the effect of, “our country (usa) is more divided than we’ve ever been”. There are a lot of different places one can go with this statement, but I really don’t see that much conflict on a day to day basis. Here’s where I’m coming from and here are some observations...

I’m a 30 something year old attorney from Connecticut. I’m a white guy. 
All the people I went to law school with are employed. 
All the guys from my three men’s league hockey teams are employed, and of about 40 different guys, 3-4 aren’t really settled in at career track jobs. 
The people who I know that are in financial difficulties are all clients of mine. 
My client base is made up of about 250 active clients, I would say 55%-60% are black. 
There are plenty of black lawyers in my area, so of any of my clients gave a flying hoot about wanting a black lawyer, they sure as shit wouldn’t hire me. I dont have any black people who are racist towards white people in my life. 
Of my friends, I have one white friend who I would truly consider a racist towards black people.
Of my friends and acquaintances, almost all the white, hard core libs, would say that same shit that Biden did about poor kids being just as smart as white kids. It’s serious soft bigotry of low expectation bullshit. 
My chance of being killed by a mass shooter are pretty low. I have 5000% higher chance of specifically being killed by an angry client of something. The chance of me being randomly killed or killed at war is historically low. 
I get really depressed sometimes, but it’s always the result of some personal or interpersonal issues, not a societal one. 
I’m much more prone to think this world is going to hell in a handbasket after watching the news. 

The huge negative societal issue that I run into on a day to day and year to year is the complete cycle of hopeless amongst a huge majority of the black community. Subpar schooling, fatherlessness, young mothers, violence, joblessness, poverty and no hope of getting out. If I was to structure political views and plans just around what I see, this would be issue number 1. 

Most of all, the world I see on tv sounds appreciably worse than the one I see with my eyes, just wondering if it’s the same with you guys. 

First of all, lbpeltz, welcome to the monkey house.  Nice to see a fresh presence here.

I don't watch much TV any more but if that's all I had to go on in terms of viewing the world, I would make as quick and painless an exit from this plain as possible.  So yes, when I do on rare occasion watch the TV news, I see a world worse than the world I walk around in. 

On the other hand, were I to be stuck in certain parts of the world- a really rough ghetto or a place wracked with disease- that world might seem  worse than TV.  It's a big damn world.  Despite the things I don't like about it, I'm grateful to be in the part of the world I am in.

Yes, I find the world as a whole going through a downward phase environmentally, socially and surely politically.  Looking at history, the world goes through phases.  I'm guessing our current social and political scenes will cycle back to a better place at some point (not gonna guess when).  The environment will cycle again as well.  The problem for us humans is that even though we have time to come back around socially and politically, as we have always done, that may not be so for us environmentally.  Nature's time is vast and we may well not be able to keep to nature's scheduled, mainly due to the damage we've incurred on the planet.  We may well be toast before the planet heals.  A major healing even in nature can make the changes in our political and social cycles seem like blink of the eye.

And then there is the mysterious or what people call "religion" or "spirituality". I don't think the core of mystery ever changes, just our relationship (or lack thereof) to it.  For me, in spiritual terms, this isn't time to get re-familiarized with any of the myths, interesting though they are.  I'm currently thinking its more important for me to become more familiar with a flower or a tiny bug, or the wind in the trees, or a very large mountain.

Thanks for the warm greeting. Much appreciated and often unheard of on the interwebs to see a kind greeting. 

I appreciate your view and do hope that my nonchalant attitude towards the environment isn’t contributing towards our demise. I don’t try to be a polluting jerk, but I'm not really the green type. Anything in particular that I should read to educate myself on the environment? 

An likewise, thanks for you kind response. 

There is so much out there to read on environment these days and it's hard to sift through what's worth the time to read and what's not.  It also depends on ones perspective and no doubt you will get many opinions on this.  In my humble opinion, some excellent books on environment include:

Bill McKibben, Eaarth  (yes, with two a's)

Bill McKibben, The End of Nature

Edward Abbey, Desert Solitaire

Edward Abbey:  The Monkey Wrench Gang

Edward O. Wilson:  The Future of Life

Wendell Berry: Home Economics

 Wendell Berry:  The Unsettling of America

Tom Hayden:  The Lost Gospel of the Earth

Lamya Essemali with Paul Watson:  Interview with a Pirate:  Captain Paul Watson

Richard Manning:  Against the Grain

Richard Manning:  Rewilding the West

Dave Foreman:  Confessions of an Eco-Warrior

I love those two Edward Abbey books. Great reads. 

mrussel1

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

I don't think the world is nearly as bad as it has been historically.  Egalitarian opportunity has never been stronger in this country.  Yes, some people are left behind, but capitalism always leaves people behind.  The difference today is "who" is being left behind.  Today, it's more about your education level and/or skills, not your color, race, creed.  

The world has never been better. From global poverty to inequality between nations, all the indicators are showing progress. This is a comforting narrative – popularized by the likes of Bill Gates and Steven Pinker. But is it true? Jason Hickel examines the rise of this so-called ‘New Optimism’.

https://newint.org/features/2019/07/01/long-read-progress-and-its-discontents

So did you read this?  Do you think he's correct that state based economies such as Russia, Argentina, Cuba and the currency manipulating China are the better mechanisms to raise more people out of poverty?

mrussel1

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

I don't think the world is nearly as bad as it has been historically.  Egalitarian opportunity has never been stronger in this country.  Yes, some people are left behind, but capitalism always leaves people behind.  The difference today is "who" is being left behind.  Today, it's more about your education level and/or skills, not your color, race, creed.  

The world has never been better. From global poverty to inequality between nations, all the indicators are showing progress. This is a comforting narrative – popularized by the likes of Bill Gates and Steven Pinker. But is it true? Jason Hickel examines the rise of this so-called ‘New Optimism’.

https://newint.org/features/2019/07/01/long-read-progress-and-its-discontents

And BTW, see the bold/Ital..

pearljammr78

mickeyrat said:

rgambs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

rgambs said:

Regarding division, I definitely see more Confederate flag flying than I did a few years ago and it's become nearly impossible to talk politics nowadays so I do think we are as divided as ever.

This is interesting but you had mentioned before that the area you live in can be pretty bigoted.

I do find it amazing that people are coming out the woodwork with the racism crap.

Yes, it is a very "rural" area lol

The racism isn't new, the boldness with which it is displayed is new.  Well, not new, more like a throwback to the old days before people got their shit together in the 90s.

I would love to have a big stack of white flags and hand these out to these stars and bars douchebags, saying this was your final flag. fly it proudly you fucking loser.......

That last comment is fucking brilliant. White flags. I love it. Well done. 

brianlux

Hot and shitty. 

https://getyarn.io/yarn-story/3ec56266-1f70-4cef-92e7-8d398303a8ba

Halifax2TheMax

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

I don't think the world is nearly as bad as it has been historically.  Egalitarian opportunity has never been stronger in this country.  Yes, some people are left behind, but capitalism always leaves people behind.  The difference today is "who" is being left behind.  Today, it's more about your education level and/or skills, not your color, race, creed.  

The world has never been better. From global poverty to inequality between nations, all the indicators are showing progress. This is a comforting narrative – popularized by the likes of Bill Gates and Steven Pinker. But is it true? Jason Hickel examines the rise of this so-called ‘New Optimism’.

https://newint.org/features/2019/07/01/long-read-progress-and-its-discontents

So did you read this?  Do you think he's correct that state based economies such as Russia, Argentina, Cuba and the currency manipulating China are the better mechanisms to raise more people out of poverty?

China has lifted a shit ton of people out of poverty.

mrussel1

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

I don't think the world is nearly as bad as it has been historically.  Egalitarian opportunity has never been stronger in this country.  Yes, some people are left behind, but capitalism always leaves people behind.  The difference today is "who" is being left behind.  Today, it's more about your education level and/or skills, not your color, race, creed.  

The world has never been better. From global poverty to inequality between nations, all the indicators are showing progress. This is a comforting narrative – popularized by the likes of Bill Gates and Steven Pinker. But is it true? Jason Hickel examines the rise of this so-called ‘New Optimism’.

https://newint.org/features/2019/07/01/long-read-progress-and-its-discontents

So did you read this?  Do you think he's correct that state based economies such as Russia, Argentina, Cuba and the currency manipulating China are the better mechanisms to raise more people out of poverty?

China has lifted a shit ton of people out of poverty.

Not sure using the metric of 7.90 USD per day that the author of the piece uses as the benchmark.  But of course the irony is all of that is driven by the incoming capitalism if the western world,  fueling the demand for the products. 

Halifax2TheMax

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

I don't think the world is nearly as bad as it has been historically.  Egalitarian opportunity has never been stronger in this country.  Yes, some people are left behind, but capitalism always leaves people behind.  The difference today is "who" is being left behind.  Today, it's more about your education level and/or skills, not your color, race, creed.  

The world has never been better. From global poverty to inequality between nations, all the indicators are showing progress. This is a comforting narrative – popularized by the likes of Bill Gates and Steven Pinker. But is it true? Jason Hickel examines the rise of this so-called ‘New Optimism’.

https://newint.org/features/2019/07/01/long-read-progress-and-its-discontents

So did you read this?  Do you think he's correct that state based economies such as Russia, Argentina, Cuba and the currency manipulating China are the better mechanisms to raise more people out of poverty?

China has lifted a shit ton of people out of poverty.

Not sure using the metric of 7.90 USD per day that the author of the piece uses as the benchmark.  But of course the irony is all of that is driven by the incoming capitalism if the western world,  fueling the demand for the products. 

Well, isn’t all poverty relative? I’ve read posters here claim that if you own a mobile phone, an Obamaphone or otherwise, you couldn’t possibly be in poverty. Different perspective offered by the World Bank.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_China

mrussel1

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

I don't think the world is nearly as bad as it has been historically.  Egalitarian opportunity has never been stronger in this country.  Yes, some people are left behind, but capitalism always leaves people behind.  The difference today is "who" is being left behind.  Today, it's more about your education level and/or skills, not your color, race, creed.  

The world has never been better. From global poverty to inequality between nations, all the indicators are showing progress. This is a comforting narrative – popularized by the likes of Bill Gates and Steven Pinker. But is it true? Jason Hickel examines the rise of this so-called ‘New Optimism’.

https://newint.org/features/2019/07/01/long-read-progress-and-its-discontents

So did you read this?  Do you think he's correct that state based economies such as Russia, Argentina, Cuba and the currency manipulating China are the better mechanisms to raise more people out of poverty?

China has lifted a shit ton of people out of poverty.

Not sure using the metric of 7.90 USD per day that the author of the piece uses as the benchmark.  But of course the irony is all of that is driven by the incoming capitalism if the western world,  fueling the demand for the products. 

Well, isn’t all poverty relative? I’ve read posters here claim that if you own a mobile phone, an Obamaphone or otherwise, you couldn’t possibly be in poverty. Different perspective offered by the World Bank.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_China

100% agree.  That's why I disagree with the entire premise of the paper posted. 

brianlux

Louis Armstrong, a black man recording in 1967 in the midst of the war in Vietnam, sang "What a Wonderful World" so genuinely as to make it seem like it really was wonderful.  Maybe we need more of that and less, "What a Shi-i-ty World".  It is shitty, but it's wonderful too.

mickeyrat

seek and ye shall find....

Spiritual_Chaos

brianlux said:

Louis Armstrong, a black man recording in 1967 in the midst of the war in Vietnam, sang "What a Wonderful World" so genuinely as to make it seem like it really was wonderful.  Maybe we need more of that and less, "What a Shi-i-ty World".  It is shitty, but it's wonderful too.

But it wasnt wonderful. You were napalming children. 

Hiding behind a lie to not face reality is ofc the core of the US society with the ”American Dream” etc. But still. 

Facing reality is important me thinks.

mrussel1

Spiritual_Chaos said:

brianlux said:

Louis Armstrong, a black man recording in 1967 in the midst of the war in Vietnam, sang "What a Wonderful World" so genuinely as to make it seem like it really was wonderful.  Maybe we need more of that and less, "What a Shi-i-ty World".  It is shitty, but it's wonderful too.

But it wasnt wonderful. You were napalming children. 

Hiding behind a lie to not face reality is ofc the core of the US society with the ”American Dream” etc. But still. 

Facing reality is important me thinks.

Yeah Brian,  how could you think the world was wonderful while YOU were napalming children?  Face reality man.  This is why ABBA and Ace of Base spent their entire careers writing songs of atonement. 

Good job,  SC. You set him straight and made more friends.