Do you think China wants to and could invade Australia by military force?

Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 13,589
There's a bit of anxiety here (me included) about China's increasing assertiveness in the Asia-Pacific.
They are building military bases on islands not far from Australia, they are sailing close to our waters, they are spying on Australia-US war games held on Australian waters.
I'm just worried about their intentions.
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
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Comments

  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,098
    There's a bit of anxiety here (me included) about China's increasing assertiveness in the Asia-Pacific.
    They are building military bases on islands not far from Australia, they are sailing close to our waters, they are spying on Australia-US war games held on Australian waters.
    I'm just worried about their intentions.
    Looking around on the internet, I founds articles about this concern going back about 3 years.  That would surely cause some tensions.  Hopefully, China will find something better to do with their time and resources.  Does Australia have a surplus of resources?  That's usually what wars are about-- getting someone else's stuff.  Is that their motive? 

    I hope things cool down!
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 6,952
    No, I do not think they want to invade.  They want to control the west economically, read up on what China has been doing Canada ever since we arrested their Huawei executive.  If the west does not get out of bed with China they will eventually be able to cripple many countries economically if they want...

    Read up on the silk road.  Does anyone really believe that is for economic expansion or military expansion...I think it is more about military expansion.

    I do not trust China or the Chinese period...
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 21,554
    We here in America don’t have to worry China is our good friends , we have the Orange Mussolini here making great deals it won’t be long till we start making our own plastic rice yummy ...
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 6,952
    Another thread in which Trump is brought up for no FUCKING reason.  Jeesh.
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 21,554
    Another thread in which Trump is brought up for no FUCKING reason.  Jeesh.
    lol yes Australia should be worried because if they were to be invaded we as an ally would sit on our hands , why ? Because this fool can’t react to China or Russia or NK they have him in their pockets..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 6,952
    Another thread in which Trump is brought up for no FUCKING reason.  Jeesh.
    lol yes Australia should be worried because if they were to be invaded we as an ally would sit on our hands , why ? Because this fool can’t react to China or Russia or NK they have him in their pockets..
    LMFAO...that is just ridiculous.  But since you seemingly want the US involved if there is a war (not happening), are you signing up?  Or are you more the type that war is OK if I'm not involved physically
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 6,952
    I have no problem with tariffs on Chinese goods...the price of the crap in China needs to double.  A good chunk of that shit just fills up landfills...
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,098
    One of the big reasons China continues to flex it's muscles around various parts of the globe is because so many people continue to buy shit products made in China.  If you shop at Walmart or Target, you are supporting China's massive and highly corrupt economy.  Most of the crap those places sell is made in China.  You can't shop at those stores and say "I hate China" (or, for that matter, say you are worried about environmental issues) without being hypocritical. 
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 6,952
    brianlux said:
    One of the big reasons China continues to flex it's muscles around various parts of the globe is because so many people continue to buy shit products made in China.  If you shop at Walmart or Target, you are supporting China's massive and highly corrupt economy.  Most of the crap those places sell is made in China.  You can't shop at those stores and say "I hate China" (or, for that matter, say you are worried about environmental issues) without being hypocritical. 
    I agree with you 100%.  I only get my dog food (made in Canada) at Wal Mart.

    I'm not good for the economy ... I do not buy things just for the sake of spending...
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 20,879
    No, China is too busy building the undersea rail and road link to Australia to promote trade and tourism. China will eventually rule the world. It’s a numbers game and they’ve got the numbers. I still blame Nixon.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 6,952
    They may very well rule the world someday.  Very likely after I'm dead and gone.  It will be the west greed that will allow that to happen...

  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 15,556
    They may very well rule the world someday.  Very likely after I'm dead and gone.  It will be the west greed that will allow that to happen...

    Just like we allowed the world to boil.

    Fuck humans. Except for Tegan, Sara, Greta and Tom Hanks.
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 20,879
    They may very well rule the world someday.  Very likely after I'm dead and gone.  It will be the west greed that will allow that to happen...

    No, it’ll be China’s self preservation and outsized population and resulting expansionism. And their long view, end game. Doesn’t Matter what the west does. And we’ll both be long gone when it happens.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

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  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 21,554
    Another thread in which Trump is brought up for no FUCKING reason.  Jeesh.
    lol yes Australia should be worried because if they were to be invaded we as an ally would sit on our hands , why ? Because this fool can’t react to China or Russia or NK they have him in their pockets..
    LMFAO...that is just ridiculous.  But since you seemingly want the US involved if there is a war (not happening), are you signing up?  Or are you more the type that war is OK if I'm not involved physically
    No I don’t want any wars at all , what’s ridiculous? to think China wouldn’t want to invade I’d say don’t fall asleep on a giant panda 🐼 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,098
    They may very well rule the world someday.  Very likely after I'm dead and gone.  It will be the west greed that will allow that to happen...

    Just like we allowed the world to boil.

    Fuck humans. Except for Tegan, Sara, Greta and Tom Hanks.
    The may gain the world, but not for long.  Like us, they will eat up the resources and will be left with a highly dysfunctional world that no one will want.

    Is Hanks doing good things these days?  Haven't heard much about him lately.
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 6,952
    They may very well rule the world someday.  Very likely after I'm dead and gone.  It will be the west greed that will allow that to happen...

    No, it’ll be China’s self preservation and outsized population and resulting expansionism. And their long view, end game. Doesn’t Matter what the west does. And we’ll both be long gone when it happens.
    No.  China's economy is based on the west buying crap from China and Western companies exploiting cheap labour...slap tariffs of 100% on Chinese made merchandise.  People do not need new phones and TVs every year...
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 20,879
    They may very well rule the world someday.  Very likely after I'm dead and gone.  It will be the west greed that will allow that to happen...

    No, it’ll be China’s self preservation and outsized population and resulting expansionism. And their long view, end game. Doesn’t Matter what the west does. And we’ll both be long gone when it happens.
    No.  China's economy is based on the west buying crap from China and Western companies exploiting cheap labour...slap tariffs of 100% on Chinese made merchandise.  People do not need new phones and TVs every year...
    No, China doesn’t care whether the west buys from them. They’ll be fine suppressing the starving. It’s a long view.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

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  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,098
    They may very well rule the world someday.  Very likely after I'm dead and gone.  It will be the west greed that will allow that to happen...

    No, it’ll be China’s self preservation and outsized population and resulting expansionism. And their long view, end game. Doesn’t Matter what the west does. And we’ll both be long gone when it happens.
    No.  China's economy is based on the west buying crap from China and Western companies exploiting cheap labour...slap tariffs of 100% on Chinese made merchandise.  People do not need new phones and TVs every year...
    No, China doesn’t care whether the west buys from them. They’ll be fine suppressing the starving. It’s a long view.
    Not sure how you figure China doesn't care if the west buys from them.  Can you explain?
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 20,879
    brianlux said:
    They may very well rule the world someday.  Very likely after I'm dead and gone.  It will be the west greed that will allow that to happen...

    No, it’ll be China’s self preservation and outsized population and resulting expansionism. And their long view, end game. Doesn’t Matter what the west does. And we’ll both be long gone when it happens.
    No.  China's economy is based on the west buying crap from China and Western companies exploiting cheap labour...slap tariffs of 100% on Chinese made merchandise.  People do not need new phones and TVs every year...
    No, China doesn’t care whether the west buys from them. They’ll be fine suppressing the starving. It’s a long view.
    Not sure how you figure China doesn't care if the west buys from them.  Can you explain?
    They’re not a western democracy. They’re a “collective.” 
     
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

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  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,098
    brianlux said:
    They may very well rule the world someday.  Very likely after I'm dead and gone.  It will be the west greed that will allow that to happen...

    No, it’ll be China’s self preservation and outsized population and resulting expansionism. And their long view, end game. Doesn’t Matter what the west does. And we’ll both be long gone when it happens.
    No.  China's economy is based on the west buying crap from China and Western companies exploiting cheap labour...slap tariffs of 100% on Chinese made merchandise.  People do not need new phones and TVs every year...
    No, China doesn’t care whether the west buys from them. They’ll be fine suppressing the starving. It’s a long view.
    Not sure how you figure China doesn't care if the west buys from them.  Can you explain?
    They’re not a western democracy. They’re a “collective.” 
     
    Right, kind of like The Borg.  Only they don't want to assimilate us, they just want to assimilate our wealth.
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • SmellymanSmellyman AsiaPosts: 3,743
    brianlux said:
    One of the big reasons China continues to flex it's muscles around various parts of the globe is because so many people continue to buy shit products made in China.  If you shop at Walmart or Target, you are supporting China's massive and highly corrupt economy.  Most of the crap those places sell is made in China.  You can't shop at those stores and say "I hate China" (or, for that matter, say you are worried about environmental issues) without being hypocritical. 
    People would have to give up their precious Apple products too.  They don't make just 'crap'.  They make everything.

    People love their 'things' though.


    An American friend of mine here in Taiwan is so happy that Trump has stopped China from taking over the South China Sea which Obama allowed them to do.  It's not true?  LOL
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 15,556
    edited August 2
    brianlux said:
    They may very well rule the world someday.  Very likely after I'm dead and gone.  It will be the west greed that will allow that to happen...

    Just like we allowed the world to boil.

    Fuck humans. Except for Tegan, Sara, Greta and Tom Hanks.
    The may gain the world, but not for long.  Like us, they will eat up the resources and will be left with a highly dysfunctional world that no one will want.

    Is Hanks doing good things these days?  Haven't heard much about him lately.
    He collects typewriters and is gonna star in the remake of the Swedish movie (and book) A Man Called Ove.


    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 6,952
    Close every factory in China that are western companies and then let's see how the Chinese economy is doing.  Fuck China.

    And Apple products are no longer the tech darlings they were...they make tremendous profit exploiting workers where ever they can ... like most companies do who operate in countries like China. 
  • pearljammr78pearljammr78 Posts: 536
    I will never shop at Walmart due to how they treat their employees and the hypocrisy of it all. But Target. Love me some Target. 
    Peace,Love and Pearl Jam.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,098
    edited August 3
    brianlux said:
    They may very well rule the world someday.  Very likely after I'm dead and gone.  It will be the west greed that will allow that to happen...

    Just like we allowed the world to boil.

    Fuck humans. Except for Tegan, Sara, Greta and Tom Hanks.
    The may gain the world, but not for long.  Like us, they will eat up the resources and will be left with a highly dysfunctional world that no one will want.

    Is Hanks doing good things these days?  Haven't heard much about him lately.
    He collects typewriters and is gonna star in the remake of the Swedish movie (and book) A Man Called Ove.


    That's kind of cool but I have been looking for a decent type writer-- a nice Smith Corona like the one Tom is holding would be lovely-- and yet I never can find one BECAUSE TOM HAS THEM ALL!!!  :lol:  Damn him!!!  :lol: 
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,098
    Smellyman said:
    brianlux said:
    One of the big reasons China continues to flex it's muscles around various parts of the globe is because so many people continue to buy shit products made in China.  If you shop at Walmart or Target, you are supporting China's massive and highly corrupt economy.  Most of the crap those places sell is made in China.  You can't shop at those stores and say "I hate China" (or, for that matter, say you are worried about environmental issues) without being hypocritical. 
    People would have to give up their precious Apple products too.  They don't make just 'crap'.  They make everything.

    People love their 'things' though.


    An American friend of mine here in Taiwan is so happy that Trump has stopped China from taking over the South China Sea which Obama allowed them to do.  It's not true?  LOL
    Good point.  I needn't have generalized so. 
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 15,556
    edited August 3

    You people speaking so loudly about not buying chinese products, and not supporting walmart - 


    - do you buy meat from the US and Canada?


    USA gets a D from World Animal Protection for Animals used in farming:


    Canada gets a D :



    Compared to some European countries:

    Germany:

    France:
    Sweden:

    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 15,556
    There's a bit of anxiety here (me included) about China's increasing assertiveness in the Asia-Pacific.
    They are building military bases on islands not far from Australia, they are sailing close to our waters, they are spying on Australia-US war games held on Australian waters.
    I'm just worried about their intentions.
    China would never dare to attack a country in the Eurovision Song Contest. You are safe.
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 6,952
    Time to close this thread...
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 6,952

    You people speaking so loudly about not buying chinese products, and not supporting walmart - 


    - do you buy meat from the US and Canada?


    USA gets a D from World Animal Protection for Animals used in farming:


    Canada gets a D :



    Compared to some European countries:

    Germany:

    France:
    Sweden:

    Another useless posting with no source info...

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