"...Critics Enable Bad Pearl Jam, Bruce Springsteen Records"

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Comments

  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,429
    PB11041 said:
    JimmyV said:
    Sirens would be a classic today if it had been released in 1992, and people would shit all over Black if it were released today. 
    False
    He is actually very right. 
    Horse shit...no way PJ could have/would have written that song back then
    musically yes lyrically no.
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,429
    "Yellow Ledbetter, what is this sloppy shit. Put on one of their classics like Can't Deny Me man. Young Eddies voice is fucking crazy on that song, man"
    if Yellow Ledbetter came out today people would shit because you can't understand the lyrics.
  • JimmyVJimmyV Posts: 19,128
    PB11041 said:
    JimmyV said:
    Sirens would be a classic today if it had been released in 1992, and people would shit all over Black if it were released today. 
    False
    He is actually very right. 
    Horse shit...no way PJ could have/would have written that song back then
    Whether they could or couldn't is subjective and completely beside the point I made. We would have loved watching Mike switch guitars midsong back then, and there is no chance "tu ru ru tu tu ru ru" wouldn't be endlessly mocked today. It's about the fans, not the band.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 15,838
    My 15 year old self would have puked if he heard Sirens instead of Who You Are as the first single on No Code.  

    Sirens is a song a 50 year old writes after coming through the other side of a crazy life.  Plain and simple.  It is not a song a twenty something writes who is in the middle of a storm.  Sirens would not fit lyrically with where the band was at the time, and sure as hell would not have fit lyrically where their fans were at the time.  
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Posts: 19,542
    My 15 year old self would have puked if he heard Sirens instead of Who You Are as the first single on No Code.  

    Sirens is a song a 50 year old writes after coming through the other side of a crazy life.  Plain and simple.  It is not a song a twenty something writes who is in the middle of a storm.  Sirens would not fit lyrically with where the band was at the time, and sure as hell would not have fit lyrically where their fans were at the time.  
    Exactly....Black is young angst, Sirens is old and gassy
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

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  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Posts: 19,542
    Just comparing Sirens to Black should get you a prison sentence.  That's like comparing Poison to Radiohead
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
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  • JimmyVJimmyV Posts: 19,128
    We survived Bugs, we would have survived Sirens.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,429
    Just comparing Sirens to Black should get you a prison sentence.  That's like comparing Poison to Radiohead
    exactly, Radiohead is pretentious garbage and Poison had some big hits :giggle:
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer Posts: 16,427
    pjhawks said:
    Just comparing Sirens to Black should get you a prison sentence.  That's like comparing Poison to Radiohead
    exactly, Radiohead is pretentious garbage and Poison had some big hits :giggle:
    Lol, beat me to it.  Though I do like Radiohead up to & including In Rainbows, but I also don't go on and on about how they're so "genius."
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Posts: 19,542
    pjhawks said:
    Just comparing Sirens to Black should get you a prison sentence.  That's like comparing Poison to Radiohead
    exactly, Radiohead is pretentious garbage and Poison had some big hits :giggle:
    Lol, beat me to it.  Though I do like Radiohead up to & including In Rainbows, but I also don't go on and on about how they're so "genius."
    I don't go on and on about it either...but they are.

    A Moon Shaped Pool is a great album by the way
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,891
    That being said, it is funny that he says this after Bruce put out one of his best reviewed albums in a couple of decades.

    https://www.albumoftheyear.org/album/150519-bruce-springsteen-western-stars.php
    And for me, that is the worst album he's ever made.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 11,425
    Late career positive reviews are usually making up for negative reviews of the classic era albums.

    Some times a result of later career cruise control where the songs are dumbed down, stream lined or formulaic and they become more accessible to people they couldn’t latch on to more adventurous material.

    Sometimes it’s late career adventurousness that garners more positive attention. 

    Just depends on the reviewer. 

    I cant think of any band that deserves to have better reviewed material than what they make in the early or middle stages. 
  • njnancynjnancy Posts: 5,096
    I think the article is his opinion and he can have it, and he picked a couple of posters on here that I don't recognize to verify his position. 

    I think each album has its own personality. The guys can't be 20 (actually they were closer to 30) forever. They age, just as the fans do. To expect them to be monolithic is ridiculous. And if you were a teen ager or younger when they put out Ten, great. A lot of fans are the same age as the band and want them to lyrically and musically put out good music but in no way expect them to put out anything like Ten. That would be disingenuous. 

    The Rolling Stones, Paul McCartney, The Who, etc. still tour and sell out stadiums. Not one word about them. There are plenty of bands that tour that are (gasp) older than 40 and sell out stadiums. Phish and DMB - like 'em or hate 'em - are in their 50's and the fans bitch about the same stuff but sell out their shows. 

    I think that the best song on the newest album is Pendulum. Actually I think it is an excellent song and even better live. I'd put it in my top,um, 30, or 25 - hard to pick favorites out of the catalogue.

    They guys are in their 50's and then they'll be in their 60's. They see the world differently and their music echoes what they feel. If they don't feel anything, due to factors we have no idea about no matter what anyone says - except for the death of an exceptionally close friend which can screw anyone up, then they shouldn't write. We don't know who is doing what and it really isn't our business. They have the right to private lives. 

    Eddie has toured solo - people are pissed because he didn't release a new album for the tour. So I guess he should have just said screw it and stayed home. Pearl Jam played stadium shows last year -they played live and some people find one or two of their shows to be their favorites. But I suppose they should have stayed home since they didn't have new music and if they did, it would suck. They shouldn't have released Lightning Bolt because it would not be pleasing to the fans - not enough angst, how dare they become a bit happy in some of their songs. 

    And this is the fan club. Can we stop blaming Ed for everything wrong with the band. We have no clue about anything. He's touring, none of the other guys are except for Mike with his side project a bit. But he is the one said to be out of steam. Perhaps it helps him deal with some of his pain. if he is allowed to have pain. And OMG,he is making money from doing his job.

    I don't get the criticism of albums and I don't get criticism of everything they do. I get everyone has opinion and these opinions will wind up in some online magazine's article. I'm not putting down anyone for being frustrated for not getting music they want or for the lack of new music in a timely fashion. If they put out an album and tour, I will be getting it and I will go see them if I have the money - as will most of the people here. 

    I think that LIghtning Bolt is a solid album and there are other articles that declared Sirens as the stand out number one new song of the year for their genre/type. So he hates their albums - who cares. Ten was a masterpiece, pent up talent and emotions poured out into it. You can't compare other albums to such an amazing  freshman album. Or you can. I just wish this forum made me feel good about being a fan instead of having people think they shouldn't bother following them now because they are washed up. I don't believe that. JMHO


  • jimjam1982jimjam1982 Posts: 1,415
    Man people are harsh...

    I don't care of Unthought Known, Amongst the Waves, Got Some, Lightning Bolt, Pendulum, Swallowed Whole, Getaway,  Infalliable are new or old I love those jams.  They might not pimp out masterpieces like the first five albums but damn, who could keep up that pace? 

    It's not like LB and Backspacer didn't produce any great music. 

    GnR put out Chinese Democracy and Metallica put out St. Anger.  Talk about useless albums...

    At this stage if the album produces 5 or 6 good to great songs its a win.
  • PJWGIIIPJWGIII Posts: 810
    This David Berman guy needs to do his homework.  As we all know, Pearl Jam no longer puts out any music.
    The real truth.
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  • JPPJ84JPPJ84 Posts: 3,462
    njnancy said:
    I think the article is his opinion and he can have it, and he picked a couple of posters on here that I don't recognize to verify his position. 
    ...
    Your post is excellent, Nancy!
     I’m quite new to the forum and it’s surprising to see how many people don’t seem to want to be here. And I agree... people complain wether they tour or not, put out an album or not. I don’t think it’s surprising it takes longer in between. Stone even predicted that in their 2013 LB interview with Steve Gleason. Hey, maybe part of why it takes so long between CDM and the album is because the fans were really bitchy about the song.

    I’m fresh off Ed‘s Euro tour and he seemed to have a blast. Same as the fans. He mentioned PJ and the guys on more than one occasion so it doesn’t seem like that’s off the radar. So no, I don’t think/hope (I always worry about everything so it’s more hoping than thinking 😉) they’re washed up. 
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,161
    edited July 2019
    Man people are harsh...

    I don't care of Unthought Known, Amongst the Waves, Got Some, Lightning Bolt, Pendulum, Swallowed Whole, Getaway,  Infalliable are new or old I love those jams.  They might not pimp out masterpieces like the first five albums but damn, who could keep up that pace? 

    It's not like LB and Backspacer didn't produce any great music. 

    GnR put out Chinese Democracy and Metallica put out St. Anger.  Talk about useless albums...

    At this stage if the album produces 5 or 6 good to great songs its a win.
    Chinese democracy > Backspacer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>€>€>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> St Anger
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • on2legson2legs Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,956
    This guy sounds like a real jerk.  It’s ironic that he calls out Bruce for being “unhappy” which is seemingly a dig about the revelations in his autobiography that he struggles with depression.  But then Berman gives us these gems in the interview:

    On going to movies: “No, it’s been years since I’ve been in a movie theater. I try every day and every night to find a movie or a TV show that I can watch, but I just can’t make it past ten minutes of anything. I just really have no luck with that.”

    On following sports: “
    Exactly. ’Cause I’ve found it useful to completely write off things that I had an interest in but that I just don’t have any more time for, like sports. I don’t pay attention at all to any sport. That used to be completely different.”

    On the state of the US: “
    One thing that just seemed absolutely clear to me was that everything was unraveling, and that we were losing the last generations of people who knew how to work the country and knew how to work the institutions. That no one was gonna want to be the labor economist; that none of us were gonna be able to operate the world that we’d been given. I’m fearful of waves of suicides, I’m fearful of AI, and I’m fearful of the fact that we just have zero protection from corporations anymore. ”

    His advice on life: “
    I had none, except it’s absolutely ridiculous—you’re just not paying attention—if you have a kid. It’s just crazy. If everything’s fine and everything goes wonderfully, then your child will be the last of the subhumans before the genetically edited children that will be coming down the line. To bring a kid into the world when you’re not gonna be around in forty years, and they’re gonna basically be unable to compete on any level, intellectually or physically or whatever, you’re just not thinking.”

    I could go on and on.  
    The cherry picked comments about Bruce and Pear Jam seem interesting until you read the entire interview.  He is down on practically every topic they discuss.  This guy is walking bag of negativity so it’s no wonder he has a negative opinion of other artists.  


    1996: Randall's Island 2  1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2  2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel  2005: Atlantic City 1  2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV)  2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4  2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2  2011: Toronto 1  2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore  2015: Central Park  2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD)  2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF)  2020: MSG | Asbury Park  2021: Asbury Park  2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville  2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore


  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer Posts: 16,427
    njnancy said:
    I think the article is his opinion and he can have it, and he picked a couple of posters on here that I don't recognize to verify his position. 

    I think each album has its own personality. The guys can't be 20 (actually they were closer to 30) forever. They age, just as the fans do. To expect them to be monolithic is ridiculous. And if you were a teen ager or younger when they put out Ten, great. A lot of fans are the same age as the band and want them to lyrically and musically put out good music but in no way expect them to put out anything like Ten. That would be disingenuous. 

    The Rolling Stones, Paul McCartney, The Who, etc. still tour and sell out stadiums. Not one word about them. There are plenty of bands that tour that are (gasp) older than 40 and sell out stadiums. Phish and DMB - like 'em or hate 'em - are in their 50's and the fans bitch about the same stuff but sell out their shows. 

    I think that the best song on the newest album is Pendulum. Actually I think it is an excellent song and even better live. I'd put it in my top,um, 30, or 25 - hard to pick favorites out of the catalogue.

    They guys are in their 50's and then they'll be in their 60's. They see the world differently and their music echoes what they feel. If they don't feel anything, due to factors we have no idea about no matter what anyone says - except for the death of an exceptionally close friend which can screw anyone up, then they shouldn't write. We don't know who is doing what and it really isn't our business. They have the right to private lives. 

    Eddie has toured solo - people are pissed because he didn't release a new album for the tour. So I guess he should have just said screw it and stayed home. Pearl Jam played stadium shows last year -they played live and some people find one or two of their shows to be their favorites. But I suppose they should have stayed home since they didn't have new music and if they did, it would suck. They shouldn't have released Lightning Bolt because it would not be pleasing to the fans - not enough angst, how dare they become a bit happy in some of their songs. 

    And this is the fan club. Can we stop blaming Ed for everything wrong with the band. We have no clue about anything. He's touring, none of the other guys are except for Mike with his side project a bit. But he is the one said to be out of steam. Perhaps it helps him deal with some of his pain. if he is allowed to have pain. And OMG,he is making money from doing his job.

    I don't get the criticism of albums and I don't get criticism of everything they do. I get everyone has opinion and these opinions will wind up in some online magazine's article. I'm not putting down anyone for being frustrated for not getting music they want or for the lack of new music in a timely fashion. If they put out an album and tour, I will be getting it and I will go see them if I have the money - as will most of the people here. 

    I think that LIghtning Bolt is a solid album and there are other articles that declared Sirens as the stand out number one new song of the year for their genre/type. So he hates their albums - who cares. Ten was a masterpiece, pent up talent and emotions poured out into it. You can't compare other albums to such an amazing  freshman album. Or you can. I just wish this forum made me feel good about being a fan instead of having people think they shouldn't bother following them now because they are washed up. I don't believe that. JMHO


    Excellent post, Nancy!
  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 7,751
    on2legs said:
    This guy sounds like a real jerk.  It’s ironic that he calls out Bruce for being “unhappy” which is seemingly a dig about the revelations in his autobiography that he struggles with depression.  But then Berman gives us these gems in the interview:

    On going to movies: “No, it’s been years since I’ve been in a movie theater. I try every day and every night to find a movie or a TV show that I can watch, but I just can’t make it past ten minutes of anything. I just really have no luck with that.”

    On following sports: “Exactly. ’Cause I’ve found it useful to completely write off things that I had an interest in but that I just don’t have any more time for, like sports. I don’t pay attention at all to any sport. That used to be completely different.”

    On the state of the US: “One thing that just seemed absolutely clear to me was that everything was unraveling, and that we were losing the last generations of people who knew how to work the country and knew how to work the institutions. That no one was gonna want to be the labor economist; that none of us were gonna be able to operate the world that we’d been given. I’m fearful of waves of suicides, I’m fearful of AI, and I’m fearful of the fact that we just have zero protection from corporations anymore. ”

    His advice on life: “I had none, except it’s absolutely ridiculous—you’re just not paying attention—if you have a kid. It’s just crazy. If everything’s fine and everything goes wonderfully, then your child will be the last of the subhumans before the genetically edited children that will be coming down the line. To bring a kid into the world when you’re not gonna be around in forty years, and they’re gonna basically be unable to compete on any level, intellectually or physically or whatever, you’re just not thinking.”

    I could go on and on.  The cherry picked comments about Bruce and Pear Jam seem interesting until you read the entire interview.  He is down on practically every topic they discuss.  This guy is walking bag of negativity so it’s no wonder he has a negative opinion of other artists.  


    Oh, don't' get me wrong. Berman is a miserable dude. He had a pretty epic melt down maybe 8-10 years ago where he called his dad a despicable man and a human molester because he is a lobbyist for conservative organizations (I mean, he's probably right given those facts, but to do it publicly...) and aid he was quitting music (surprise...he's back!).


    But his quote seems to have kicked a hornets nest here.  
  • Meh, I think between the lines he is saying he respects those artists and that they could be producing better music.
    With that said...the Silver Jews haven't put out anything good since American Water. I was a huge Pavement fan in college and most of Malkmus' work has been forgettable since Real Emotional Trash.
    To go in another direction, anytime one artist trashes another artist in an interview – they loose credibility because they are only making comments to elevate their self.
  • on2legson2legs Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,956
    on2legs said:
    This guy sounds like a real jerk.  It’s ironic that he calls out Bruce for being “unhappy” which is seemingly a dig about the revelations in his autobiography that he struggles with depression.  But then Berman gives us these gems in the interview:

    On going to movies: “No, it’s been years since I’ve been in a movie theater. I try every day and every night to find a movie or a TV show that I can watch, but I just can’t make it past ten minutes of anything. I just really have no luck with that.”

    On following sports: “Exactly. ’Cause I’ve found it useful to completely write off things that I had an interest in but that I just don’t have any more time for, like sports. I don’t pay attention at all to any sport. That used to be completely different.”

    On the state of the US: “One thing that just seemed absolutely clear to me was that everything was unraveling, and that we were losing the last generations of people who knew how to work the country and knew how to work the institutions. That no one was gonna want to be the labor economist; that none of us were gonna be able to operate the world that we’d been given. I’m fearful of waves of suicides, I’m fearful of AI, and I’m fearful of the fact that we just have zero protection from corporations anymore. ”

    His advice on life: “I had none, except it’s absolutely ridiculous—you’re just not paying attention—if you have a kid. It’s just crazy. If everything’s fine and everything goes wonderfully, then your child will be the last of the subhumans before the genetically edited children that will be coming down the line. To bring a kid into the world when you’re not gonna be around in forty years, and they’re gonna basically be unable to compete on any level, intellectually or physically or whatever, you’re just not thinking.”

    I could go on and on.  The cherry picked comments about Bruce and Pear Jam seem interesting until you read the entire interview.  He is down on practically every topic they discuss.  This guy is walking bag of negativity so it’s no wonder he has a negative opinion of other artists.  


    Oh, don't' get me wrong. Berman is a miserable dude. He had a pretty epic melt down maybe 8-10 years ago where he called his dad a despicable man and a human molester because he is a lobbyist for conservative organizations (I mean, he's probably right given those facts, but to do it publicly...) and aid he was quitting music (surprise...he's back!).


    But his quote seems to have kicked a hornets nest here.  
    Eh. Just comes off as a miserable dude.  
    1996: Randall's Island 2  1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2  2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel  2005: Atlantic City 1  2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV)  2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4  2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2  2011: Toronto 1  2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore  2015: Central Park  2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD)  2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF)  2020: MSG | Asbury Park  2021: Asbury Park  2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville  2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore


  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 7,751
    edited August 2019
    Damn. He died today. fuck
  • vzouzalvzouzal Posts: 202
    pjhawks said:
    I actually think this is bullshit. Because these groups have so many hits new songs tend to get lost in the pile. So sirens mind your manners and even  possibly infallible get lost somewhat in pjs catalog. If those same songs and album were released by a brand new group they would be praised for their quality music and lyrics. The seventy fifth best pj song Is still miles ahead of anything the original commenter has ever produced. It’s just not hip to like sirens because pj once put out ten vs and yield
    This, A million times this!
  • buck502000buck502000 Posts: 8,951
    Brice Springtime is a tool...
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 29,221
    Brice Springtime is a tool...
    Who ? 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • pearljammr78pearljammr78 Posts: 1,613
    Brice Springtime is a tool...
    Yea. I hate that guy. 

    But Bruce Springsteen, that guy is awesome. 
    Peace,Love and Pearl Jam.
  • Brice Springtime is a tool...
    People who want to censor artists because they can't get out of the ass of their own country are.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • buck502000buck502000 Posts: 8,951

    Silver Jews’ David Berman Dead at 52

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