Is it too late for environmentalism to make a lasting difference?

brianlux

I asked early why global warming is not discussed more here and elsewhere.  Now, I feel pressed to ask some other questions:

Is it too late for environmentalism to  make a lasting difference? 

Can we slow or even reverse the 6th major extinction  and will the human species survive the 6th extinction?

What can we do if it is not too late?

I'm very concerned that it is to late and here's why:  Environmentalism has always been an uphill battle, butting its head up against unsustainable development, industry, the massive power humans have at our disposal used to wreck havoc, and greed and laziness.  In America, when Obama was in his first term, environmentalism, as associate professor Paul Wapner put it, "seems to have found a hearing in Washington."  He said that in 2010.  Much has changed in 9 years and, in terms of nature, wilderness and wildness, those changes have generally been changing for the worse. 

In 2020 we have an opportunity to elect a new president, one that might give environmentalism a hearing in Washington once again.  But is that enough, especially, is that enough in a country so fickle as to veer dazzlingly from such as Obama to one such as Trump?  And what of this current herd of Democratic candidates that seem willing to only give as little as 7 or 8 minutes out of a 2 hour debate to discuss the most pressing issue of our time: climate change (or as I at least as accurately call it, global warming)?

And I would ask, is there enough of an environment movement in other countries to counterbalance the backwards movement of environmental protection being carried out in America?

Are we going to simply sleep walk as a species to our cumulative grave, or will we decide to not go gently into that horrid night? 

Thoughts_Arrive

It is sad and frightening. Many people simply do not care. I believe it is never too late. 

mickeyrat

reverse to what state?

the earth will adapt. question is can we and other species adapt to the changing conditions?

I say the sooner the human species is put in major check the better. if that means extinction. so be it....

brianlux

mickeyrat said:

reverse to what state?

the earth will adapt. question is can we and other species adapt to the changing conditions?

I say the sooner the human species is put in major check the better. if that means extinction. so be it....

"reverse" was a poor choice of words- thank you for pointing that out.  "Slowing" the 6th major extinction would be a better choice of wording because we are already in that extinction event.  Slowing is the best we can hope for.  The current extinction rate is about 1,000 time the normal background rates.  (  https://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/current-extinction-rate-10-times-worse-previously-thought/  )

Meltdown99

How many threads on the environment and global warning do we need?  Could a properly name thread serve as a place to discuss?  

As soon as humans go extinct, then the earth will rebound...hopefully we stay extinct.

Just look at any of the environmental threads...none generate a lot of interest.

But if you start a thread about The Donalds toilet paper show you generate 3000 pages in an hour.

mickeyrat

Meltdown99 said:

How many threads on the environment and global warning do we need?  Could a properly name thread serve as a place to discuss?  

As soon as humans go extinct, then the earth will rebound...hopefully we stay extinct.

Just look at any of the environmental threads...none generate a lot of interest.

But if you start a thread about The Donalds toilet paper show you generate 3000 pages in an hour.

so a thread about the enviro impact of donalds toilet paper habits?

brianlux

Meltdown99 said:

How many threads on the environment and global warning do we need?  Could a properly name thread serve as a place to discuss?  

As soon as humans go extinct, then the earth will rebound...hopefully we stay extinct.

Just look at any of the environmental threads...none generate a lot of interest.

But if you start a thread about The Donalds toilet paper show you generate 3000 pages in an hour.

One fewer than the number of threads on guns?

My apologies to those who find my concern about environment irritating.  That isn't intentional.  Maybe I should just go away?  You be the judge!

josevolution

Oh please Brian no one wants you to go away at least I don’t, the climate issues are super important but the leader of the free world being a total disgrace is way more important at this moment in time ..

Spiritual_Chaos

josevolution said:

Oh please Brian no one wants you to go away at least I don’t, the climate issues are super important but the leader of the free world being a total disgrace is way more important at this moment in time ..

They go hand in hand

Hi!

Spiritual_Chaos said:

josevolution said:

Oh please Brian no one wants you to go away at least I don’t, the climate issues are super important but the leader of the free world being a total disgrace is way more important at this moment in time ..

They go hand in hand

So true. An example:https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/07/06/politics/honeybees-study-usda-donald-trump-budget-cuts/index.html

Random wake and bake thoughts;
You can’t stop climate change, you can only hope to contain it. One of the things I think about most is the “unknowns”, especially as it relates to “acceleration” of climate impacts. I imagine a scene where things just start to spiral out of control at some point. I imagine at some point, and I have know idea when, it’s just going to reach a point when all the soloar panels and electric cars in the world won’t make a bit of difference. The production of green products, in itself, is dirty to an extent, I would imagine. So, anyway, the “unknowns”. Like I’ve heard multiple scientists talk about the different gases, like methane, that will be released under the Artic permafrost or whatever. How will that impact or accelerate the negative impacts? Once the genie is out of the bottle you can’t put it back in. 
Im personally just living my life the best I can, try not to be wasteful, and try to be thoughtful about little things, like walking behind 
everyone in my house all day to turn off lights they constantly leave on, that’s actually more to do with the electric bill,  lol. IDK
Another thing Ive been thinking about lately, as it relates to the environment, is marijuana. Grow lights, chemicals, plastic baggies, plastic containers for wax, ect. ect. That can’t be good for the earth. 

Jason P

sooner or later a giant space rock is going to fuck everything up no matter what we do.  have a great day!

Hi!

some say a comet will fall from the sky

brianlux

Jason P said:

sooner or later a giant space rock is going to fuck everything up no matter what we do.  have a great day!

Life has existed over 3.5 billion years, despite previous pummeling by meteors big and small.  In a little over 100 years, humans have set into motion a 6th major extinction.  Barring a meteor larger than anything that has hit the earth in 35 billion years, life will likely go on.  Who are we to take as much of that life as we have?  I just don't see it.  Our species anthropocentric arrogance is huge.

Spiritual_Chaos

I have a theory, that I think is pretty spot on. 

More and more I see this defeatist "The world is fucked anyway" opinion coming from, what I've seen, right winged people.

My theory is, when they no longer with a straight face can go with the "climate change isn't real" and the "the climate has always changed on the planet - it's all a natural" they still can not muster up a "Wow. We were (read: chose to be) really wrong on the climate change thing. Hey left - you were right all along listening to science!" -- so instead they jump to the "the world is fucked anyways? So what does it matter?". 

Which funnily enough puts a light on what the right is all about - "me, me and no one else". The world is fucked anyways - so let's keep the status quo and not have me change - and fuck anyone else in the world and future generations who will be affected! 

In short:

DAY 1:   
"The Left" : Climate change is real. We need to act!
"The Right": Climate change doesn't exist. Let's keep on polluting.
 
DAY X:
"The Left": Climate change is real. We need to act!
"The Right": Climate change is real. But nothing can be done about it anyways. Let's keep on polluting. 

brianlux

Spiritual_Chaos said:

I have a theory, that I think is pretty spot on. 

More and more I see this defeatist "The world is fucked anyway" opinion coming from, what I've seen, right winged people.

My theory is, when they no longer with a straight face can go with the "climate change isn't real" and the "the climate has always changed on the planet - it's all a natural" they still can not muster up a "Wow. We were (read: chose to be) really wrong on the climate change thing. Hey left - you were right all along listening to science!" -- so instead they jump to the "the world is fucked anyways? So what does it matter?". 

Which funnily enough puts a light on what the right is all about - "me, me and no one else". The world is fucked anyways - so let's keep the status quo and not have me change - and fuck anyone else in the world and future generations who will be affected! 

In short:

DAY 1:   
"The Left" : Climate change is real. We need to act!
"The Right": Climate change doesn't exist. Let's keep on polluting.
 
DAY X:
"The Left": Climate change is real. We need to act!
"The Right": Climate change is real. But nothing can be done about it anyways. Let's keep on polluting. 

I agree with most of this but I also have to say, I think many on the left are just as responsible for climate change.  Many on the left express an ideological objection to climate change but they contribute to it anyway.   And so then some of those on the right say, "Well look at you, hypocrite!" 

I think there are a lot of people who really don't believe in human cause climate change (i.e. AGM, anthropogenic global warming). And yes, I agree liberals and progressives tend to be more climate change aware (and that's good!) but I'm not sure it is constructive to make this an us vs. them issue.  I think there are some conservative people who are aware of global warming and are concerned about it.  Let's work with them and ignore the deniers and not make this yet another us vs. them issue.  That won't bring anybody around to changing their opinions or actions.  In fact, it will make them more resistant to change.  I would bet on that.

That's my 2 cents this AM!

Jason P

Hi!

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/10/07/climate/ipcc-report-half-degree.html

“You’re not just adapting to one thing at a time, you’re adapting to everything shifting at once,” said Kristie L. Ebi, a professor of public health at the University of Washington and one of the lead authors of the report’s chapter on climate impacts.


“My view is that 2 degrees is aspirational and 1.5 degrees is ridiculously aspirational” said Gary Yohe, an environmental economist at Wesleyan University. “They are good targets to aim for, but we need to face the fact that we might not hit them and start thinking more seriously about what a 2.5 degree or 3 degree world might look like.”

Meltdown99

brianlux said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

I have a theory, that I think is pretty spot on. 

More and more I see this defeatist "The world is fucked anyway" opinion coming from, what I've seen, right winged people.

My theory is, when they no longer with a straight face can go with the "climate change isn't real" and the "the climate has always changed on the planet - it's all a natural" they still can not muster up a "Wow. We were (read: chose to be) really wrong on the climate change thing. Hey left - you were right all along listening to science!" -- so instead they jump to the "the world is fucked anyways? So what does it matter?". 

Which funnily enough puts a light on what the right is all about - "me, me and no one else". The world is fucked anyways - so let's keep the status quo and not have me change - and fuck anyone else in the world and future generations who will be affected! 

In short:

DAY 1:   
"The Left" : Climate change is real. We need to act!
"The Right": Climate change doesn't exist. Let's keep on polluting.
 
DAY X:
"The Left": Climate change is real. We need to act!
"The Right": Climate change is real. But nothing can be done about it anyways. Let's keep on polluting. 

I agree with most of this but I also have to say, I think many on the left are just as responsible for climate change.  Many on the left express an ideological objection to climate change but they contribute to it anyway.   And so then some of those on the right say, "Well look at you, hypocrite!" 

I think there are a lot of people who really don't believe in human cause climate change (i.e. AGM, anthropogenic global warming). And yes, I agree liberals and progressives tend to be more climate change aware (and that's good!) but I'm not sure it is constructive to make this an us vs. them issue.  I think there are some conservative people who are aware of global warming and are concerned about it.  Let's work with them and ignore the deniers and not make this yet another us vs. them issue.  That won't bring anybody around to changing their opinions or actions.  In fact, it will make them more resistant to change.  I would bet on that.

That's my 2 cents this AM!

So the left is the only who cares about the environment?  Correct?  So all those badass SUV's and Pickup trucks are all rightwing supporters?  I am represented politically by the NDP and ever riding near me are NDP.  At least 2 out of every vehicle on the road SUV and Trucks...all those right wingers must never vote.

Well, you can rule Canada out as a place to move to then.  Perhaps Sweden should be on your radar.  I hear it is a socialist utopia and 0 pollutions, no plastic...they have even re-engineered the human body so they don't poop...it's just recycled...

Because if the government is sinking money into oil and gas projects then they are environmentally aware...just lip service.  I also do not expect the government to solve anything...

Spiritual_Chaos

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

I have a theory, that I think is pretty spot on. 

More and more I see this defeatist "The world is fucked anyway" opinion coming from, what I've seen, right winged people.

My theory is, when they no longer with a straight face can go with the "climate change isn't real" and the "the climate has always changed on the planet - it's all a natural" they still can not muster up a "Wow. We were (read: chose to be) really wrong on the climate change thing. Hey left - you were right all along listening to science!" -- so instead they jump to the "the world is fucked anyways? So what does it matter?". 

Which funnily enough puts a light on what the right is all about - "me, me and no one else". The world is fucked anyways - so let's keep the status quo and not have me change - and fuck anyone else in the world and future generations who will be affected! 

In short:

DAY 1:   
"The Left" : Climate change is real. We need to act!
"The Right": Climate change doesn't exist. Let's keep on polluting.
 
DAY X:
"The Left": Climate change is real. We need to act!
"The Right": Climate change is real. But nothing can be done about it anyways. Let's keep on polluting. 

I agree with most of this but I also have to say, I think many on the left are just as responsible for climate change.  Many on the left express an ideological objection to climate change but they contribute to it anyway.   And so then some of those on the right say, "Well look at you, hypocrite!" 

I think there are a lot of people who really don't believe in human cause climate change (i.e. AGM, anthropogenic global warming). And yes, I agree liberals and progressives tend to be more climate change aware (and that's good!) but I'm not sure it is constructive to make this an us vs. them issue.  I think there are some conservative people who are aware of global warming and are concerned about it.  Let's work with them and ignore the deniers and not make this yet another us vs. them issue.  That won't bring anybody around to changing their opinions or actions.  In fact, it will make them more resistant to change.  I would bet on that.

That's my 2 cents this AM!

So the left is the only who cares about the environment?  Correct?  So all those badass SUV's and Pickup trucks are all rightwing supporters?  I am represented politically by the NDP and ever riding near me are NDP.  At least 2 out of every vehicle on the road SUV and Trucks...all those right wingers must never vote.

Well, you can rule Canada out as a place to move to then.  Perhaps Sweden should be on your radar.  I hear it is a socialist utopia and 0 pollutions, no plastic...they have even re-engineered the human body so they don't poop...it's just recycled...

Because if the government is sinking money into oil and gas projects then they are environmentally aware...just lip service.  I also do not expect the government to solve anything...

Haha. So bitter.

brianlux

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

I have a theory, that I think is pretty spot on. 

More and more I see this defeatist "The world is fucked anyway" opinion coming from, what I've seen, right winged people.

My theory is, when they no longer with a straight face can go with the "climate change isn't real" and the "the climate has always changed on the planet - it's all a natural" they still can not muster up a "Wow. We were (read: chose to be) really wrong on the climate change thing. Hey left - you were right all along listening to science!" -- so instead they jump to the "the world is fucked anyways? So what does it matter?". 

Which funnily enough puts a light on what the right is all about - "me, me and no one else". The world is fucked anyways - so let's keep the status quo and not have me change - and fuck anyone else in the world and future generations who will be affected! 

In short:

DAY 1:   
"The Left" : Climate change is real. We need to act!
"The Right": Climate change doesn't exist. Let's keep on polluting.
 
DAY X:
"The Left": Climate change is real. We need to act!
"The Right": Climate change is real. But nothing can be done about it anyways. Let's keep on polluting. 

I agree with most of this but I also have to say, I think many on the left are just as responsible for climate change.  Many on the left express an ideological objection to climate change but they contribute to it anyway.   And so then some of those on the right say, "Well look at you, hypocrite!" 

I think there are a lot of people who really don't believe in human cause climate change (i.e. AGM, anthropogenic global warming). And yes, I agree liberals and progressives tend to be more climate change aware (and that's good!) but I'm not sure it is constructive to make this an us vs. them issue.  I think there are some conservative people who are aware of global warming and are concerned about it.  Let's work with them and ignore the deniers and not make this yet another us vs. them issue.  That won't bring anybody around to changing their opinions or actions.  In fact, it will make them more resistant to change.  I would bet on that.

That's my 2 cents this AM!

So the left is the only who cares about the environment?  Correct?  So all those badass SUV's and Pickup trucks are all rightwing supporters?  I am represented politically by the NDP and ever riding near me are NDP.  At least 2 out of every vehicle on the road SUV and Trucks...all those right wingers must never vote.

Well, you can rule Canada out as a place to move to then.  Perhaps Sweden should be on your radar.  I hear it is a socialist utopia and 0 pollutions, no plastic...they have even re-engineered the human body so they don't poop...it's just recycled...

Because if the government is sinking money into oil and gas projects then they are environmentally aware...just lip service.  I also do not expect the government to solve anything...

"So the left is the only who cares about the environment?  Correct?"

Who says that?  Not me!

"I also do not expect the government to solve anything..."

Maybe, maybe not, but certainly  not if you don't demand it of them. 

Meltdown99

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

I have a theory, that I think is pretty spot on. 

More and more I see this defeatist "The world is fucked anyway" opinion coming from, what I've seen, right winged people.

My theory is, when they no longer with a straight face can go with the "climate change isn't real" and the "the climate has always changed on the planet - it's all a natural" they still can not muster up a "Wow. We were (read: chose to be) really wrong on the climate change thing. Hey left - you were right all along listening to science!" -- so instead they jump to the "the world is fucked anyways? So what does it matter?". 

Which funnily enough puts a light on what the right is all about - "me, me and no one else". The world is fucked anyways - so let's keep the status quo and not have me change - and fuck anyone else in the world and future generations who will be affected! 

In short:

DAY 1:   
"The Left" : Climate change is real. We need to act!
"The Right": Climate change doesn't exist. Let's keep on polluting.
 
DAY X:
"The Left": Climate change is real. We need to act!
"The Right": Climate change is real. But nothing can be done about it anyways. Let's keep on polluting. 

I agree with most of this but I also have to say, I think many on the left are just as responsible for climate change.  Many on the left express an ideological objection to climate change but they contribute to it anyway.   And so then some of those on the right say, "Well look at you, hypocrite!" 

I think there are a lot of people who really don't believe in human cause climate change (i.e. AGM, anthropogenic global warming). And yes, I agree liberals and progressives tend to be more climate change aware (and that's good!) but I'm not sure it is constructive to make this an us vs. them issue.  I think there are some conservative people who are aware of global warming and are concerned about it.  Let's work with them and ignore the deniers and not make this yet another us vs. them issue.  That won't bring anybody around to changing their opinions or actions.  In fact, it will make them more resistant to change.  I would bet on that.

That's my 2 cents this AM!

So the left is the only who cares about the environment?  Correct?  So all those badass SUV's and Pickup trucks are all rightwing supporters?  I am represented politically by the NDP and ever riding near me are NDP.  At least 2 out of every vehicle on the road SUV and Trucks...all those right wingers must never vote.

Well, you can rule Canada out as a place to move to then.  Perhaps Sweden should be on your radar.  I hear it is a socialist utopia and 0 pollutions, no plastic...they have even re-engineered the human body so they don't poop...it's just recycled...

Because if the government is sinking money into oil and gas projects then they are environmentally aware...just lip service.  I also do not expect the government to solve anything...

"So the left is the only who cares about the environment?  Correct?"

Who says that?  Not me!

"I also do not expect the government to solve anything..."

Maybe, maybe not, but certainly  not if you don't demand it of them. 

I demand good government.  It matters little to me if you are left or right...I just prefer they don't veer too far from the middle.  Unfortunately, both parties are leaning too far either way anymore.   People have to take it upon themselves to care for the environment because politicians are only playing lip service anymore.  

There are common sense things government can do like.  But I fail to see any of that.