Alabama anti abortion bill vs NC bathroom bill and canceled Raleigh show

JP LosmanJP Losman RaleighPosts: 140
I am curious if PJ and other artists will be boycotting Alabama and all the other states that are passing hardcore anti abortion bills (Georgia, Texas, Ohio, Arizona, etc.).    I doubt they do.

Bruce made a mistake boycotting all of NC when Charlotte actually was passing a progressive ordinance (whereas Houston did not).  Bruce did it for his own PR.  The right thing to do if you truly care about making a difference is to use your concert as a chance to promote change, spread a message, get out the vote, make it a rally, etc.  Not playing sets a terrible precedent (though it was fairly obvious at the time since people like Bruce have played places like Russia w/ much worse civil rights for LGBTQ) or even Eddie playing Italy this summer.   When these artists play shows in these states w/ these anti abortion laws (which impacts much more of the population), they will be exposed as hypocrites.    Pearl Jam should have played the Raleigh show.  They used bad logic in not playing that show.   I know many of you think its time to just let it go.  No.  We learn from our mistakes and should remind people of history so we don't repeat those mistakes.   

Comments

  • drakeheuer14drakeheuer14 Posts: 2,613
    Sounds like you would enjoy AMT
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  • mrk2mrk2 FinlandPosts: 1,261
    Bruce has never played Russia.
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  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,287
    edited May 16
    With it being so close to the show when cancelling (because of Bruce cancelling would be my simpleminded guess) they should have played the show and given -and doing PR of - 100% of the proceeds going to activism towards LGBQ rights. 

    Used the show as a statement and respected fans who had paid travel/hotel/taking out vaccation etc instead of using quitting as a statement.

    To me it didn't make sense, in relations to the other option. In that circumstance. They used their fans as ammo to make a point.
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • on2legson2legs The Jersey ShorePosts: 8,506
    Maybe they do.  Maybe they don’t.  It’s their band and it’s up to them. 
    1996: Randall's Island 2
    1998: East Rutherford, MSG 1 & 2
    2000: Cincinnati, Columbus, Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3, Boston 1, Camden 1 & 2
    2003: Philadelphia, Uniondale, MSG 1 & 2, Holmdel
    2005: Atlantic City 1
    2006: Camden 1, East Rutherford 1 & 2
    2008: Camden 1 & 2, MSG 1 & 2, Newark(EV)
    2009: Philadelphia 1, 2, & 4
    2010: Newark, MSG 1 & 2
    2011: Toronto 1
    2013: Wrigley Field, Brooklyn 2, Philadelphia 1 & 2, Baltimore
    2015: Central Park
    2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2, MSG 1 & 2, Fenway Park 2, MSG(TOTD)
    2017: Brooklyn(RnRHOF)
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 3,902
    You know, there's an outside chance that this is actually JP Losman
  • CopperTomCopperTom Posts: 2,053
    I think they’ve been boycotting Alabama for years already.
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWestPosts: 12,867
    There's a thread on AMT where a passionate debate about whether Pearl Jam should or should not play Israel takes place. This reminds me of that. Regardless of where you stand on should or shouldn't, it is highly unlikely that they ever will at this stage of their careers. Similarly, I don't see Alabama creeping onto their tour schedule anytime soon. They pretty much play where they play now.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • JP LosmanJP Losman RaleighPosts: 140
    My bad on Bruce playing Russia.  I did see Maroon 5 play Russia a few days after boycotting NC for the bathroom bill.   I still think this was all about Bruce grandstanding then actually trying to change the law.   Most of the places impacted by boycotts economically were places that wanted to repeal HB2.  Again, Charlotte passed an ordinance whereas Houston did not.  

    Even specifically for transgender rights, the Trump administration's ban on transgenders in the military is pretty bad.  Shouldn't Bruce and others that boycotted all of NC even though it was really the rural districts that led to the legislation being passed ALSO boycott all of America.  Majority of people don't like Trump or voted for him.  He even lost the popular vote, not considering the fact so many people don't vote to begin with.   Yet because of the electoral college (and a host of other reasons), he is president.   Shouldn't Bruce boycott all of America (for transgender rights) for the same reasons?   

    That is why it boycotting places for supposed political reasons is a slippery slope.   Why does it stop with NC and not all of America for transgender rights.   And what about the abortion bills that impact a lot more people than a bathroom bill.   Its not just Alabama.  There are similar bills being passed in about 1/3 of the country including places with progressive cities and purple states like Ohio, Texas, and Arizona not to mention more obvious places like Mississippi, etc.  The Alabama bill is in the news right now which is what made me think of how NC was treated and how many people were crediting Bruce for taking a stand.  I think it was grandstanding and PR.   
  • evenflow82evenflow82 Posts: 3,529
    Minnesota is open for business if the boys want to play here...
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    -Christopher Walken

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  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 3,940
    JP Losman said:


    That is why it boycotting places for supposed political reasons is a slippery slope.   Why does it stop with NC and not all of America for transgender rights.   
    They are clearly doing this. They aren't touring this year.

  • JP LosmanJP Losman RaleighPosts: 140
    JP Losman said:


    That is why it boycotting places for supposed political reasons is a slippery slope.   Why does it stop with NC and not all of America for transgender rights.   
    They are clearly doing this. They aren't touring this year.

    okay that was pretty funny
  • on2legson2legs The Jersey ShorePosts: 8,506
    edited May 16

       


    JP Losman said:


    That is why it boycotting places for supposed political reasons is a slippery slope.   Why does it stop with NC and not all of America for transgender rights.
     


    So someone can’t make a stand one time or else they are labeled a hypocrite if they don’t make a stand On EVERY issue for the rest of their lives?

    1996: Randall's Island 2
    1998: East Rutherford, MSG 1 & 2
    2000: Cincinnati, Columbus, Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3, Boston 1, Camden 1 & 2
    2003: Philadelphia, Uniondale, MSG 1 & 2, Holmdel
    2005: Atlantic City 1
    2006: Camden 1, East Rutherford 1 & 2
    2008: Camden 1 & 2, MSG 1 & 2, Newark(EV)
    2009: Philadelphia 1, 2, & 4
    2010: Newark, MSG 1 & 2
    2011: Toronto 1
    2013: Wrigley Field, Brooklyn 2, Philadelphia 1 & 2, Baltimore
    2015: Central Park
    2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2, MSG 1 & 2, Fenway Park 2, MSG(TOTD)
    2017: Brooklyn(RnRHOF)
  • JP LosmanJP Losman RaleighPosts: 140
    on2legs said:

       


    JP Losman said:


    That is why it boycotting places for supposed political reasons is a slippery slope.   Why does it stop with NC and not all of America for transgender rights.
     


    So someone can’t make a stand one time or else they are labeled a hypocrite if they don’t make a stand On EVERY issue for the rest of their lives?

    To a certain extent, yes.   It was a big deal to punish all of the state for the actions of the rural areas (that were not even impacted by the economic pressure of the boycotts).    There were other options (that other artists did) such as donating profits to transgender rights causes, using their concert to advocate for change, registering people to vote at the concert, turning it a rally essentially.   If it wasn't just for publicity (not playing), then they should NOT play in other instances - such as all of America for the transgender ban in the military or for other terrible laws being passed in LA, AL, GA, OH, TX, AZ, MO, etc.   
  • lexicondevillexicondevil Bay AreaPosts: 877
    on2legs said:

       


    JP Losman said:


    That is why it boycotting places for supposed political reasons is a slippery slope.   Why does it stop with NC and not all of America for transgender rights.
     


    So someone can’t make a stand one time or else they are labeled a hypocrite if they don’t make a stand On EVERY issue for the rest of their lives?

    Exactly. Would it be better if they never stood up against anything at all? I went to two Women's Marches, one in the rain, but I just couldn't do the third or fourth one. Am I a hypocrite for not doing every march every time?
    1991- Hollywood Palladium, California with Temple of the Dog, Soundgarden, and Alice in Chains -RIP Magazine Show Oct. 6th
    1992- Lollapalooza, Irvine, California
    Nothing since then. I suck.
    2016- Fenway Park, Boston - Both glorious nights
  • jeffbrjeffbr SeattlePosts: 6,660
    I think it was bullshit for PJ to cancel Raleigh on short notice after fans had traveled, booked hotels, airfare, tickets, etc... and many fans were already there. Totally bad decision. I didn't have any issue with them not wanting to play there, but perhaps deciding that weeks in advance would have been the better move.
    Going forward they absolutely should stop playing states where individual freedoms are not respected. As far as the abortion thing goes, I think they should boycott states that are passing these restrictive, punitive measures. Arkansas, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Mississippi, North Dakota, Ohio, South Dakota and Alabama have all passed legislation restricting abortions this year, while Missouri, North Carolina, Tennessee, and Wisconsin have pending laws. It will make logistics easier, with fewer states to have to worry about on tour.

    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,758
    I know I wouldn't and won't step foot in any of these states. If I were in a band I wouldn't either. And if I were in any kind of business that might have to enter any of those states, I wouldn't if I had anything to do with the decision. I'd be very disappointed if PJ played any of these states.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • JammalamboJammalambo Posts: 1,271
    JP Losman said:
    I am curious if PJ and other artists will be boycotting Alabama and all the other states that are passing hardcore anti abortion bills (Georgia, Texas, Ohio, Arizona, etc.).    I doubt they do.

    Bruce made a mistake boycotting all of NC when Charlotte actually was passing a progressive ordinance (whereas Houston did not).  Bruce did it for his own PR.  The right thing to do if you truly care about making a difference is to use your concert as a chance to promote change, spread a message, get out the vote, make it a rally, etc.  Not playing sets a terrible precedent (though it was fairly obvious at the time since people like Bruce have played places like Russia w/ much worse civil rights for LGBTQ) or even Eddie playing Italy this summer.   When these artists play shows in these states w/ these anti abortion laws (which impacts much more of the population), they will be exposed as hypocrites.    Pearl Jam should have played the Raleigh show.  They used bad logic in not playing that show.   I know many of you think its time to just let it go.  No.  We learn from our mistakes and should remind people of history so we don't repeat those mistakes.
    I don't think you even know what you're talking about.. Here in Italy there aren't anti-abortion laws.
  • darwinstheorydarwinstheory LaPorte, INPosts: 3,192
    PJ_Soul said:
    I know I wouldn't and won't step foot in any of these states. If I were in a band I wouldn't either. And if I were in any kind of business that might have to enter any of those states, I wouldn't if I had anything to do with the decision. I'd be very disappointed if PJ played any of these states.
    At this juncture, I don't think there is much cause for concern with them playing in any of the aforementioned, or any other US State in the near future. 
    "A smart monkey doesn't monkey around with another monkey's monkey" - Darwin's Theory
  • jam_fanjjam_fanj Posts: 40
    We have a new Governor in NC and the bathroom bill is gone. They need to come back (pun) to NC for a makeup show. 
  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 10,109
    I was ganked by the Raleigh "decision" as well, about 18 hours from boarding my flight.

    Did it do any good?
  • eddieceddiec Posts: 3,026
    JP Losman said:
    My bad on Bruce playing Russia.  I did see Maroon 5 play Russia a few days after boycotting NC for the bathroom bill.   I still think this was all about Bruce grandstanding then actually trying to change the law.   Most of the places impacted by boycotts economically were places that wanted to repeal HB2.  Again, Charlotte passed an ordinance whereas Houston did not.  

    Even specifically for transgender rights, the Trump administration's ban on transgenders in the military is pretty bad.  Shouldn't Bruce and others that boycotted all of NC even though it was really the rural districts that led to the legislation being passed ALSO boycott all of America.  Majority of people don't like Trump or voted for him.  He even lost the popular vote, not considering the fact so many people don't vote to begin with.   Yet because of the electoral college (and a host of other reasons), he is president.   Shouldn't Bruce boycott all of America (for transgender rights) for the same reasons?   

    That is why it boycotting places for supposed political reasons is a slippery slope.   Why does it stop with NC and not all of America for transgender rights.   And what about the abortion bills that impact a lot more people than a bathroom bill.   Its not just Alabama.  There are similar bills being passed in about 1/3 of the country including places with progressive cities and purple states like Ohio, Texas, and Arizona not to mention more obvious places like Mississippi, etc.  The Alabama bill is in the news right now which is what made me think of how NC was treated and how many people were crediting Bruce for taking a stand.  I think it was grandstanding and PR.   
    Yeah, he really needs the publicity.

    I remember reading online comments about Global Citizens- that Pearl Jam and other bands were hypocrites- rich people increasing their profile by playing a benefit concert to end global poverty. Your post is veering in that direction.
  • on2legson2legs The Jersey ShorePosts: 8,506
    JP Losman said:
    on2legs said:

       


    JP Losman said:


    That is why it boycotting places for supposed political reasons is a slippery slope.   Why does it stop with NC and not all of America for transgender rights.
     


    So someone can’t make a stand one time or else they are labeled a hypocrite if they don’t make a stand On EVERY issue for the rest of their lives?

    To a certain extent, yes.   It was a big deal to punish all of the state for the actions of the rural areas (that were not even impacted by the economic pressure of the boycotts).    There were other options (that other artists did) such as donating profits to transgender rights causes, using their concert to advocate for change, registering people to vote at the concert, turning it a rally essentially.   If it wasn't just for publicity (not playing), then they should NOT play in other instances - such as all of America for the transgender ban in the military or for other terrible laws being passed in LA, AL, GA, OH, TX, AZ, MO, etc.   
    I think you’re letting your anger over the canceled show (which is understandable) cloud your judgement about the big picture.  

    You're essentially stating that people should sit on their hands and do nothing unless they’re prepared to fight every instance of injustice.  

    Thats an impossible standard to hold to people. 
    1996: Randall's Island 2
    1998: East Rutherford, MSG 1 & 2
    2000: Cincinnati, Columbus, Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3, Boston 1, Camden 1 & 2
    2003: Philadelphia, Uniondale, MSG 1 & 2, Holmdel
    2005: Atlantic City 1
    2006: Camden 1, East Rutherford 1 & 2
    2008: Camden 1 & 2, MSG 1 & 2, Newark(EV)
    2009: Philadelphia 1, 2, & 4
    2010: Newark, MSG 1 & 2
    2011: Toronto 1
    2013: Wrigley Field, Brooklyn 2, Philadelphia 1 & 2, Baltimore
    2015: Central Park
    2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2, MSG 1 & 2, Fenway Park 2, MSG(TOTD)
    2017: Brooklyn(RnRHOF)
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 1,383
    on2legs said:
    JP Losman said:
    on2legs said:

       


    JP Losman said:


    That is why it boycotting places for supposed political reasons is a slippery slope.   Why does it stop with NC and not all of America for transgender rights.
     


    So someone can’t make a stand one time or else they are labeled a hypocrite if they don’t make a stand On EVERY issue for the rest of their lives?

    To a certain extent, yes.   It was a big deal to punish all of the state for the actions of the rural areas (that were not even impacted by the economic pressure of the boycotts).    There were other options (that other artists did) such as donating profits to transgender rights causes, using their concert to advocate for change, registering people to vote at the concert, turning it a rally essentially.   If it wasn't just for publicity (not playing), then they should NOT play in other instances - such as all of America for the transgender ban in the military or for other terrible laws being passed in LA, AL, GA, OH, TX, AZ, MO, etc.   
    I think you’re letting your anger over the canceled show (which is understandable) cloud your judgement about the big picture.  

    You're essentially stating that people should sit on their hands and do nothing unless they’re prepared to fight every instance of injustice.  

    Thats an impossible standard to hold to people. 


    The cancellation timing was incredibly unfortunate for fans but anyone thinking true bleeding heart anger at issues such as the NC bathroom or AL abortion bills underestimate liberal anger towards many conservative regions in this country.

    To think of it as grandstanding is misunderstanding the emotion behind decisions such as these.

    The only practical alternative for liberal bands is to never plan to play in red state America again, that way fans don't lose airfare and hotel costs.
  • JP LosmanJP Losman RaleighPosts: 140
    on2legs said:
    JP Losman said:
    on2legs said:

       


    JP Losman said:


    That is why it boycotting places for supposed political reasons is a slippery slope.   Why does it stop with NC and not all of America for transgender rights.
     


    So someone can’t make a stand one time or else they are labeled a hypocrite if they don’t make a stand On EVERY issue for the rest of their lives?

    To a certain extent, yes.   It was a big deal to punish all of the state for the actions of the rural areas (that were not even impacted by the economic pressure of the boycotts).    There were other options (that other artists did) such as donating profits to transgender rights causes, using their concert to advocate for change, registering people to vote at the concert, turning it a rally essentially.   If it wasn't just for publicity (not playing), then they should NOT play in other instances - such as all of America for the transgender ban in the military or for other terrible laws being passed in LA, AL, GA, OH, TX, AZ, MO, etc.   
    I think you’re letting your anger over the canceled show (which is understandable) cloud your judgement about the big picture.  

    You're essentially stating that people should sit on their hands and do nothing unless they’re prepared to fight every instance of injustice.  

    Thats an impossible standard to hold to people. 
    how is it sitting on your hands by playing a show and donating profits to the people on the ground actually trying to make the change happen.  Plenty of non-profits I know and work with professionally could have used the help.  How about registering to vote people at the venue.  How about going on a rant during the concert and trying to persuade people to help fight the change or change their views for the positive?  
  • on2legson2legs The Jersey ShorePosts: 8,506
    JP Losman said:
    on2legs said:
    JP Losman said:
    on2legs said:

       


    JP Losman said:


    That is why it boycotting places for supposed political reasons is a slippery slope.   Why does it stop with NC and not all of America for transgender rights.
     


    So someone can’t make a stand one time or else they are labeled a hypocrite if they don’t make a stand On EVERY issue for the rest of their lives?

    To a certain extent, yes.   It was a big deal to punish all of the state for the actions of the rural areas (that were not even impacted by the economic pressure of the boycotts).    There were other options (that other artists did) such as donating profits to transgender rights causes, using their concert to advocate for change, registering people to vote at the concert, turning it a rally essentially.   If it wasn't just for publicity (not playing), then they should NOT play in other instances - such as all of America for the transgender ban in the military or for other terrible laws being passed in LA, AL, GA, OH, TX, AZ, MO, etc.   
    I think you’re letting your anger over the canceled show (which is understandable) cloud your judgement about the big picture.  

    You're essentially stating that people should sit on their hands and do nothing unless they’re prepared to fight every instance of injustice.  

    Thats an impossible standard to hold to people. 
    how is it sitting on your hands by playing a show and donating profits to the people on the ground actually trying to make the change happen.  Plenty of non-profits I know and work with professionally could have used the help.  How about registering to vote people at the venue.  How about going on a rant during the concert and trying to persuade people to help fight the change or change their views for the positive?  
    I think those are all great ideas and if you think they’re great you could do them too.  But the band should decide what stand they make just like you decide what stand you make. 
    1996: Randall's Island 2
    1998: East Rutherford, MSG 1 & 2
    2000: Cincinnati, Columbus, Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3, Boston 1, Camden 1 & 2
    2003: Philadelphia, Uniondale, MSG 1 & 2, Holmdel
    2005: Atlantic City 1
    2006: Camden 1, East Rutherford 1 & 2
    2008: Camden 1 & 2, MSG 1 & 2, Newark(EV)
    2009: Philadelphia 1, 2, & 4
    2010: Newark, MSG 1 & 2
    2011: Toronto 1
    2013: Wrigley Field, Brooklyn 2, Philadelphia 1 & 2, Baltimore
    2015: Central Park
    2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2, MSG 1 & 2, Fenway Park 2, MSG(TOTD)
    2017: Brooklyn(RnRHOF)
  • jjflashjjflash Posts: 3,877
    CopperTom said:
    I think they’ve been boycotting Alabama for years already.
    Yes, they have. And, honestly, who can blame them.
    Speaking as someone who lives in Alabama it's sad the state's leadership, if it can be called such, long ago honed the craft of shooting itself in the foot, and seems to willfully resist the opportunity to evolve and move forward. Supporters of the abortion bill have admitted it's political grandstanding in an effort to bring the issue before the Supreme Court. Even more baffling than 25 white, Republican men triumphantly affixing their approval to the restrictive bill was our female governor signing it into "law". As with many of the other current events in our county, I hold on to the hope that history will one day shed a fair and unbiased light on our elected leaders and the profligate ways they've wielded their power to shape policy #legacy
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,758
    PJ_Soul said:
    I know I wouldn't and won't step foot in any of these states. If I were in a band I wouldn't either. And if I were in any kind of business that might have to enter any of those states, I wouldn't if I had anything to do with the decision. I'd be very disappointed if PJ played any of these states.
    At this juncture, I don't think there is much cause for concern with them playing in any of the aforementioned, or any other US State in the near future. 
    :lol:
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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