The Democratic Candidates

HughFreakingDillon

JimmyV said:

cincybearcat said:

So wait - people here think Al should have done what?  Apologized and then moved on? Just trying to understand.

He seemed to want to toe the line between apologizing and not admitting he did what he was accused of. I wish he would have just said these accusations are out of context and clearly partisan in nature, and then waited for an investigation. But he couldn't really do that because his own weak ass party was showing him the door. Both Senators from NY were at the front of that train.

I would imagine he was frustrated that if you have an R next to your name, you get a pass, if you have a D, you are expected to do the "right thing". 

JimmyV

HughFreakingDillon said:

JimmyV said:

cincybearcat said:

So wait - people here think Al should have done what?  Apologized and then moved on? Just trying to understand.

He seemed to want to toe the line between apologizing and not admitting he did what he was accused of. I wish he would have just said these accusations are out of context and clearly partisan in nature, and then waited for an investigation. But he couldn't really do that because his own weak ass party was showing him the door. Both Senators from NY were at the front of that train.

I would imagine he was frustrated that if you have an R next to your name, you get a pass, if you have a D, you are expected to do the "right thing". 

I would be, too. We all should be. It's ridiculous.

Spiritual_Chaos

https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/1167117811115839488

The upshot: In the space of three minutes, Biden got the time period, the location, the heroic act, the type of medal, the military branch and the rank of the recipient wrong, as well as his own role in the ceremony.

Nice ending though:

Here’s how Biden remembered it: “You see the look on his face — he says, ‘Sir, I don’t want it. I don’t want it. He died. He died.’ ”
Workman’s version is the same, but with one added detail. He recalled Biden meeting his gaze. Workman told the vice president that he didn’t want the medal.
“I know you don’t,” Biden replied softly.
Eight years later, Workman still remembers how Biden looked at him.
“He has that look where his eyes can see into your eyes,” Workman said. “I felt like he really understood.”

Gern Blansten

Spiritual_Chaos said:

https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/1167117811115839488

The upshot: In the space of three minutes, Biden got the time period, the location, the heroic act, the type of medal, the military branch and the rank of the recipient wrong, as well as his own role in the ceremony.

Nice ending though:

Here’s how Biden remembered it: “You see the look on his face — he says, ‘Sir, I don’t want it. I don’t want it. He died. He died.’ ”
Workman’s version is the same, but with one added detail. He recalled Biden meeting his gaze. Workman told the vice president that he didn’t want the medal.
“I know you don’t,” Biden replied softly.
Eight years later, Workman still remembers how Biden looked at him.
“He has that look where his eyes can see into your eyes,” Workman said. “I felt like he really understood.”

I forgive him

JimmyV

Gern Blansten said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/1167117811115839488

The upshot: In the space of three minutes, Biden got the time period, the location, the heroic act, the type of medal, the military branch and the rank of the recipient wrong, as well as his own role in the ceremony.

Nice ending though:

Here’s how Biden remembered it: “You see the look on his face — he says, ‘Sir, I don’t want it. I don’t want it. He died. He died.’ ”
Workman’s version is the same, but with one added detail. He recalled Biden meeting his gaze. Workman told the vice president that he didn’t want the medal.
“I know you don’t,” Biden replied softly.
Eight years later, Workman still remembers how Biden looked at him.
“He has that look where his eyes can see into your eyes,” Workman said. “I felt like he really understood.”

I forgive him

That's why I love Joe Biden. Would've probably run through a wall for him 4 years ago. 

Gern Blansten

Not sure why the facts would have been scrambled but at least there was basis in fact for the story.  Compare that to tRump and his bullshit stories .

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/16/politics/sir-trump-telltale-word-false/index.html

F Me In The Brain

Biden doesn't do it intentionally.  He is just too frogging old.

Lerxst1992

mrussel1 said:

Good poll.  Warren still has the Sanders problem.  She's also been quietly reaching out to DNC power brokers to let them know that she is not looking for a political 'revolution'.  She wants to reform the current capitalistic system.  If she's being straightforward, then I'm more sympathetic to her positions, but she needs to get centered soon enough.  If I were her, I'd start going after Biden supporters.  That's the path to victory because I just don't see Sanders dropping out until deep, deep into the primary season, if ever.  Going after Biden supporters means moderating some of her positions on taxation.  

I like the way that sounds about Warren, but shouldn't she be telling us that? Kinda creepy she is sharing her populist side privately with power brokers 

Jearlpam0925

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Good poll.  Warren still has the Sanders problem.  She's also been quietly reaching out to DNC power brokers to let them know that she is not looking for a political 'revolution'.  She wants to reform the current capitalistic system.  If she's being straightforward, then I'm more sympathetic to her positions, but she needs to get centered soon enough.  If I were her, I'd start going after Biden supporters.  That's the path to victory because I just don't see Sanders dropping out until deep, deep into the primary season, if ever.  Going after Biden supporters means moderating some of her positions on taxation.  

I like the way that sounds about Warren, but shouldn't she be telling us that? Kinda creepy she is sharing her populist side privately with power brokers 

Are both of you referring to this article? What Elizabeth Warren Is Quietly Telling Democratic Insiders https://nyti.ms/2KXeqQ0

She's actually a partisan Dem as opposed to ol' Berns.

A Democrat, trying to win the Democratic primary by appealing to Democrats is....worthy of a news story, I guess.

I think she is being strategic and is thinking ahead. This is not some corrupting or compromising of Warren or her policies.  People seem to lose sight of the fact that she is running for president, and once she has won, if she is going to pass major legislation, she will need just about everyone on the Democratic side to get it done, including establishment figures and moderate Dems.

If she passes even 20% of everything she's promising I'll deem it a huge success.

mrussel1

Jearlpam0925 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Good poll.  Warren still has the Sanders problem.  She's also been quietly reaching out to DNC power brokers to let them know that she is not looking for a political 'revolution'.  She wants to reform the current capitalistic system.  If she's being straightforward, then I'm more sympathetic to her positions, but she needs to get centered soon enough.  If I were her, I'd start going after Biden supporters.  That's the path to victory because I just don't see Sanders dropping out until deep, deep into the primary season, if ever.  Going after Biden supporters means moderating some of her positions on taxation.  

I like the way that sounds about Warren, but shouldn't she be telling us that? Kinda creepy she is sharing her populist side privately with power brokers 

Are both of you referring to this article? What Elizabeth Warren Is Quietly Telling Democratic Insiders https://nyti.ms/2KXeqQ0

She's actually a partisan Dem as opposed to ol' Berns.

A Democrat, trying to win the Democratic primary by appealing to Democrats is....worthy of a news story, I guess.

I think she is being strategic and is thinking ahead. This is not some corrupting or compromising of Warren or her policies.  People seem to lose sight of the fact that she is running for president, and once she has won, if she is going to pass major legislation, she will need just about everyone on the Democratic side to get it done, including establishment figures and moderate Dems.

If she passes even 20% of everything she's promising I'll deem it a huge success.

It's very strategic,  nothing at all nefarious.

Funny when you say 20%... depends on your definition!  If she has 5 proposals and 1 gets passed in full,  not sure I'm a fan. By contrast, if she promises to wipe out a trillion in student debt,  but only erases 200 million for the poorest,  then I'm better with that. 

Does anyone know is she's still promising to waive all the student debt in her speeches?

Jearlpam0925

Ha, right. I mean I'd be ecstatic with everything. But if she passed even a 20% portion of each one of her proposals I'm saying I'd be doing cartwheels. 

Regardless whomever gets in there (hopefully gets in there) is gonna need the first two years just to undo all the things Fuckface has done while also addressing everything else that was neglected.

Jearlpam0925

Also don't know about the student debt thing, but I've come to gather that she's not looking to change it. Whether that includes a "promise" or not I have no idea. To me there are worst things in life. I'd gladly have my tax dollars go toward programs like this instead of the insane amount of defense spending, or the piss poor, minuscule amount of funding for education. If ultimately this is the ground floor in hitting the reset button to open up the largest generation's pocket books, while also addressing a legitimate issue (student debt), and reinforcing & improving the higher ed system for public universities so that future opportunity is more robust I'm all for it.

FWIW - what I do know about Warren as well is that she's acknowledged that there's a good chance a lot of her plans won't get through legislation. But I'm glad she's out there with plans on basically every issue you want to hear from your candidate explain in detail.

Hi!

Dated Biden
Married Warren

Halifax2TheMax

Hi! said:

Dated Biden
Married Warren

Had an affair with Buddha.

Lerxst1992

Jearlpam0925 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Good poll.  Warren still has the Sanders problem.  She's also been quietly reaching out to DNC power brokers to let them know that she is not looking for a political 'revolution'.  She wants to reform the current capitalistic system.  If she's being straightforward, then I'm more sympathetic to her positions, but she needs to get centered soon enough.  If I were her, I'd start going after Biden supporters.  That's the path to victory because I just don't see Sanders dropping out until deep, deep into the primary season, if ever.  Going after Biden supporters means moderating some of her positions on taxation.  

I like the way that sounds about Warren, but shouldn't she be telling us that? Kinda creepy she is sharing her populist side privately with power brokers 

Are both of you referring to this article? What Elizabeth Warren Is Quietly Telling Democratic Insiders https://nyti.ms/2KXeqQ0

She's actually a partisan Dem as opposed to ol' Berns.

A Democrat, trying to win the Democratic primary by appealing to Democrats is....worthy of a news story, I guess.

I think she is being strategic and is thinking ahead. This is not some corrupting or compromising of Warren or her policies.  People seem to lose sight of the fact that she is running for president, and once she has won, if she is going to pass major legislation, she will need just about everyone on the Democratic side to get it done, including establishment figures and moderate Dems.

If she passes even 20% of everything she's promising I'll deem it a huge success.

But I'm deciding whether she'd be a strong general election candidate.

As I see it, despite the good points you raised, she has 2 massive strikes against her:

1. The GOP will use her strong socialist policy beliefs against her. Something the dems have not overcome when the attacks were legit (they weren't with obama).

2. Her response to Trump mocking her DNA test was historically weak. Weak on a Dukakis level. Unfortunately for the dems, attacks like this will be often during the general. 

mrussel1

Lerxst1992 said:

Jearlpam0925 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Good poll.  Warren still has the Sanders problem.  She's also been quietly reaching out to DNC power brokers to let them know that she is not looking for a political 'revolution'.  She wants to reform the current capitalistic system.  If she's being straightforward, then I'm more sympathetic to her positions, but she needs to get centered soon enough.  If I were her, I'd start going after Biden supporters.  That's the path to victory because I just don't see Sanders dropping out until deep, deep into the primary season, if ever.  Going after Biden supporters means moderating some of her positions on taxation.  

I like the way that sounds about Warren, but shouldn't she be telling us that? Kinda creepy she is sharing her populist side privately with power brokers 

Are both of you referring to this article? What Elizabeth Warren Is Quietly Telling Democratic Insiders https://nyti.ms/2KXeqQ0

She's actually a partisan Dem as opposed to ol' Berns.

A Democrat, trying to win the Democratic primary by appealing to Democrats is....worthy of a news story, I guess.

I think she is being strategic and is thinking ahead. This is not some corrupting or compromising of Warren or her policies.  People seem to lose sight of the fact that she is running for president, and once she has won, if she is going to pass major legislation, she will need just about everyone on the Democratic side to get it done, including establishment figures and moderate Dems.

If she passes even 20% of everything she's promising I'll deem it a huge success.

But I'm deciding whether she'd be a strong general election candidate.

As I see it, despite the good points you raised, she has 2 massive strikes against her:

1. The GOP will use her strong socialist policy beliefs against her. Something the dems have not overcome when the attacks were legit (they weren't with obama).

2. Her response to Trump mocking her DNA test was historically weak. Weak on a Dukakis level. Unfortunately for the dems, attacks like this will be often during the general. 

This is where I am too. She said she's a capitalist,  so I want more evidence of that. 

Jearlpam0925

Lerxst1992 said:

Jearlpam0925 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Good poll.  Warren still has the Sanders problem.  She's also been quietly reaching out to DNC power brokers to let them know that she is not looking for a political 'revolution'.  She wants to reform the current capitalistic system.  If she's being straightforward, then I'm more sympathetic to her positions, but she needs to get centered soon enough.  If I were her, I'd start going after Biden supporters.  That's the path to victory because I just don't see Sanders dropping out until deep, deep into the primary season, if ever.  Going after Biden supporters means moderating some of her positions on taxation.  

I like the way that sounds about Warren, but shouldn't she be telling us that? Kinda creepy she is sharing her populist side privately with power brokers 

Are both of you referring to this article? What Elizabeth Warren Is Quietly Telling Democratic Insiders https://nyti.ms/2KXeqQ0

She's actually a partisan Dem as opposed to ol' Berns.

A Democrat, trying to win the Democratic primary by appealing to Democrats is....worthy of a news story, I guess.

I think she is being strategic and is thinking ahead. This is not some corrupting or compromising of Warren or her policies.  People seem to lose sight of the fact that she is running for president, and once she has won, if she is going to pass major legislation, she will need just about everyone on the Democratic side to get it done, including establishment figures and moderate Dems.

If she passes even 20% of everything she's promising I'll deem it a huge success.

But I'm deciding whether she'd be a strong general election candidate.

As I see it, despite the good points you raised, she has 2 massive strikes against her:

1. The GOP will use her strong socialist policy beliefs against her. Something the dems have not overcome when the attacks were legit (they weren't with obama).

2. Her response to Trump mocking her DNA test was historically weak. Weak on a Dukakis level. Unfortunately for the dems, attacks like this will be often during the general. 

Re: #1: I personally think everyone is too worried about this. I believe whom ever the nominee will be will get labeled a socialist and ran into the ground regardless. If every Dem campaign doesn't know this by now, then they should just give up.

Re: #2: I think this is all trivial nonsense, sorry not trying to demean your opinion here I'm really not. Clinton ran legitimate slander ads with this Fuckface making fun of the handicapped along with audio of being misogynistic. The people that buy into his shit are already with him. Consistent polls show him losing to pretty much any of the top 3 or 4 candidates. That's not to say that whom ever it is should just coast. They better pound the fucking pavement hard. Additionally, I think whatever the amount of Obama voters in '12 that voted for Fuckface in '16 came back in the midterms, or mostly came back.

Every cycle the outcome of the Presidential General is always super close. Dems should be worried about nothing right now other than getting their candidate that receives the most votes, that's what a primary is for. Fuck everything else. People can say what they will about Howard Dean (his policies were actually really good, but all he's remembered for is the dipshit thing), but saw a quote in a Politico article from him that essentially said, "do you want real change, or who is 'electable' enough to  beat Trump (whatever the fuck that means)"? My concern isn't with electability, I'll worry about that when we get to that point. Biden's wife's platform of talking down to people, that they should vote for her husband for no other reason than the fear that Trump gets re-elected? Please, get out with that nonsense. Gimme substance. To me everyone should vote for the candidate that offers them the greatest substance. And for me it's Elizabeth and not Joe.

Basically, if the Dems do their job correctly - as it was done in the previous two terms before '16 (talking about real campaigning here) - then we shouldn't see a repeat. But whatever, again, I'll hope for the best and expect the worst and just keep knocking on doors in my neighborhood. Oh, and I hope that people have started giving a shit about who serves them, beyond voting for one person every four years. There's an election every year. VOTE.

Jearlpam0925

Very good article about the whole Warren/Native American relations, hopefully something her campaign picks up on.

https://newrepublic.com/article/154887/gets-say-warrens-apology-cherokee-nation-enough

dankind

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a28869569/joe-biden-false-war-story-gaffes-cognitive-issues

HughFreakingDillon

jesus what's wrong with biden? is he really losing his mind?