The Democratic Candidates

Spiritual_Chaos

Bernie Sanders announces plan to double union membership if elected

Bernie Sanders has released plans to double union membership in the US during his first term in office as he campaigns to secure the Democratic presidential candidacy.

Sanders’ plan is an expansion of the Workplace Democracy Act, previously championed by the Vermont senator, and would also restore workers’ rights to collectively bargain for better wages, benefits and working conditions.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/21/bernie-sanders-union-membership-plan

mrussel1

Party like it's 1890 again.  

Lerxst1992

mrussel1 said:

Party like it's 1890 again.  

The balance of power hasn't swung massively towards employers since the Reagan Revolution ?

Before attacking unions please consider the NYC metro area. Massive union participation and a top notch economy.

I agree it could get annoying watching teachers get 6% raises in years of recession while we get wage freezes  in the private world

...or MTA workers bilk the ot system for $300,000 in OT wages per year

...but those of us on the outside looking in are cannon fodder to employers ;=)

Meltdown99

mrussel1 said:

For the record,  Yang's proposal is not about helping people in need. Every citizen would receive the amount regardless of income.  It's intentionally creating a welfare state.  No thanks.  

Agreed.  It will never happen. 

HughFreakingDillon

just create a third fucking party already, bernie. that ain't the democratic platform. 

Meltdown99

Unions are like the government...they both leech off the productivity of others.  Spent 25 years in a union...never again.

mrussel1

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Party like it's 1890 again.  

The balance of power hasn't swung massively towards employers since the Reagan Revolution ?

Before attacking unions please consider the NYC metro area. Massive union participation and a top notch economy.

I agree it could get annoying watching teachers get 6% raises in years of recession while we get wage freezes  in the private world

...or MTA workers bilk the ot system for $300,000 in OT wages per year

...but those of us on the outside looking in are cannon fodder to employers ;=)

A lot of one's perspective comes from what one considers as a 'worker'.  We're not a manufacturing society any longer, so the need for unions has dissipated steadily over the years.  Companies with white collar work forces have a strong focus on employee benefits, morale, etc.  They also believe in performance based pay, which is my perspective.  Collective bargaining can have, and still has, a place in jobs where there is no distinction in employee performance.  But the % of jobs that look like that continues to decrease.  So I'm not disparaging unions, I just think it's a silly and arbitrary goal.  I also think it has the unintended consequence of creating class separation between 'union' and 'management', making it difficult for high performing employees to break through into management.  

mrussel1

Meltdown99 said:

Unions are like the government...they both leech off the productivity of others.  Spent 25 years in a union...never again.

When there were no labor laws, and there were company 'towns' and stores, unions were really important in leveling the playing field.  But I feel like, by and large, they've outlived their usefulness.  Factory unions is one place where there's still use, but now manufacturers are building plants where there are no unions, like TN, SC, etc.  

Meltdown99

mrussel1 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Unions are like the government...they both leech off the productivity of others.  Spent 25 years in a union...never again.

When there were no labor laws, and there were company 'towns' and stores, unions were really important in leveling the playing field.  But I feel like, by and large, they've outlived their usefulness.  Factory unions is one place where there's still use, but now manufacturers are building plants where there are no unions, like TN, SC, etc.  

For sure.  No doubt they played a roll in shaping labour laws throughout Canada and the US.  Manufacturing and Union membership have been on the decline in Ontario ever since we foolishly signed onto free trade.  Unions fought tooth and nail against free trade...now the Jerry Dias, UNIFOR president endorses free trade even though his members will lose more jobs because of agreement.  No problem so much with free trade...I absolutely oppose Mexico being part of the agreement...

Lerxst1992

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Party like it's 1890 again.  

The balance of power hasn't swung massively towards employers since the Reagan Revolution ?

Before attacking unions please consider the NYC metro area. Massive union participation and a top notch economy.

I agree it could get annoying watching teachers get 6% raises in years of recession while we get wage freezes  in the private world

...or MTA workers bilk the ot system for $300,000 in OT wages per year

...but those of us on the outside looking in are cannon fodder to employers ;=)

A lot of one's perspective comes from what one considers as a 'worker'.  We're not a manufacturing society any longer, so the need for unions has dissipated steadily over the years.  Companies with white collar work forces have a strong focus on employee benefits, morale, etc.  They also believe in performance based pay, which is my perspective.  Collective bargaining can have, and still has, a place in jobs where there is no distinction in employee performance.  But the % of jobs that look like that continues to decrease.  So I'm not disparaging unions, I just think it's a silly and arbitrary goal.  I also think it has the unintended consequence of creating class separation between 'union' and 'management', making it difficult for high performing employees to break through into management.  

Performance based pay sounds nice in theory but to me rising to senior management, perhaps a 1 in a 100 chance, hinges as much on prospects groveling for attention and business leaders taking care of "friends."

I'll never forget my buddy in senior management at his co. at a meeting where ratings were being determined in advance of layoffs. I'll never forget how disgusted he looked when saying all the VPs exempted their 2 or 3 friends first and it was painfully obvious. And when he said "it's never any different at meetings like this."

mrussel1

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Party like it's 1890 again.  

The balance of power hasn't swung massively towards employers since the Reagan Revolution ?

Before attacking unions please consider the NYC metro area. Massive union participation and a top notch economy.

I agree it could get annoying watching teachers get 6% raises in years of recession while we get wage freezes  in the private world

...or MTA workers bilk the ot system for $300,000 in OT wages per year

...but those of us on the outside looking in are cannon fodder to employers ;=)

A lot of one's perspective comes from what one considers as a 'worker'.  We're not a manufacturing society any longer, so the need for unions has dissipated steadily over the years.  Companies with white collar work forces have a strong focus on employee benefits, morale, etc.  They also believe in performance based pay, which is my perspective.  Collective bargaining can have, and still has, a place in jobs where there is no distinction in employee performance.  But the % of jobs that look like that continues to decrease.  So I'm not disparaging unions, I just think it's a silly and arbitrary goal.  I also think it has the unintended consequence of creating class separation between 'union' and 'management', making it difficult for high performing employees to break through into management.  

Performance based pay sounds nice in theory but to me rising to senior management, perhaps a 1 in a 100 chance, hinges as much on prospects groveling for attention and business leaders taking care of "friends."

I'll never forget my buddy in senior management at his co. at a meeting where ratings were being determined in advance of layoffs. I'll never forget how disgusted he looked when saying all the VPs exempted their 2 or 3 friends first and it was painfully obvious. And when he said "it's never any different at meetings like this."

Do you work in an environment where pay and promotion are performance based? 

mickeyrat

Hickenlooper running for Senate. Gets to transfer cash from one campaign to the other.  He isnt a lock but they voted him in twice didnt they for governor? And hes seen the economic benefits of legal pot too.....

Kat

Is there any chance at all that by making the right moves, the Senate could be flipped?

Jearlpam0925

Kat said:

Is there any chance at all that by making the right moves, the Senate could be flipped?

Not really - kinda would take a miracle, most of them are solid Red states. Maine, Arizona, and Colorado have a decent chance, but I think Dems need to net +7 to take it. That's without getting into the weeds of Dems defending their own without taking a hit.

Spiritual_Chaos

mrussel1 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Unions are like the government...they both leech off the productivity of others.  Spent 25 years in a union...never again.

When there were no labor laws, and there were company 'towns' and stores, unions were really important in leveling the playing field.  But I feel like, by and large, they've outlived their usefulness.  Factory unions is one place where there's still use, but now manufacturers are building plants where there are no unions, like TN, SC, etc.  

An american speaking about unions being a thing of the past, while people have to work three jobs to make ends meet. 

Icky.

Spiritual_Chaos

Bernie Sanders’s ‘Green New Deal’: A $16 Trillion Climate Plan

WASHINGTON — Senator Bernie Sanders on Thursday released a $16.3 trillion blueprint to fight climate change, the latest and most expensive proposal from the field of Democratic presidential candidates aimed at reining in planet-warming greenhouse gases.

Mr. Sanders unveiled his proposal one day after Gov. Jay Inslee of Washington, who made climate change the central focus of his campaign, announced he was dropping out of the 2020 race. Mr. Inslee’s absence could create an opening for another presidential aspirant to seize the mantle of “climate candidate.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/22/climate/bernie-sanders-climate-change.html

mrussel1

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Unions are like the government...they both leech off the productivity of others.  Spent 25 years in a union...never again.

When there were no labor laws, and there were company 'towns' and stores, unions were really important in leveling the playing field.  But I feel like, by and large, they've outlived their usefulness.  Factory unions is one place where there's still use, but now manufacturers are building plants where there are no unions, like TN, SC, etc.  

An american speaking about unions being a thing of the past, while people have to work three jobs to make ends meet. 

Icky.

A Swede who knows nothing about America acting like he does, day after.  Ignorant.  

mrussel1

Jearlpam0925 said:

Kat said:

Is there any chance at all that by making the right moves, the Senate could be flipped?

Not really - kinda would take a miracle, most of them are solid Red states. Maine, Arizona, and Colorado have a decent chance, but I think Dems need to net +7 to take it. That's without getting into the weeds of Dems defending their own without taking a hit.

Agree +7 is a lot.  Agree on the three states, but could lose Alabama as well.  I think Iowa could be in play with Joni Ernst on defense.  Maybe Tennessee.  NC is a toss up.  If all of those states go our way, it can happen.  I think +4 is likely.  That's what I would bet.  

Jearlpam0925

mrussel1 said:

Jearlpam0925 said:

Kat said:

Is there any chance at all that by making the right moves, the Senate could be flipped?

Not really - kinda would take a miracle, most of them are solid Red states. Maine, Arizona, and Colorado have a decent chance, but I think Dems need to net +7 to take it. That's without getting into the weeds of Dems defending their own without taking a hit.

Agree +7 is a lot.  Agree on the three states, but could lose Alabama as well.  I think Iowa could be in play with Joni Ernst on defense.  Maybe Tennessee.  NC is a toss up.  If all of those states go our way, it can happen.  I think +4 is likely.  That's what I would bet.  

Right. Might, maybe, though not probable, could pick up Georgia as well. 

Certain states are going to continue to get bluer and redder - especially on the coasts & major metro areas (bluer) and the rust belt and midwest (redder). But I see Georgia, Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, and possibly Texas (as metro areas keep increasing in size) going full blue in the next decade. Florida  I'd like to bet on, but that's just a fucking weird state.

Re: unions - if there were better regulations and laws in place then, theoretically, there wouldn't be a need for unions. And the unions of the past certainly aren't needed in the present. But I'll say I have come around on unions, because theories and ideals never match reality. So I believe they're needed, especially in certain industries -  to me they're specifically needed in teachers and nurses going forward as a requirement.

If we're going to live in a world where the message of advanced education isn't a requirement, and we move continuously into a service-based economy, then they're absolutely needed. If minimum wage is kept stagnant then the power of unions are needed as the value of a dollar doesn't go up. The worker needs some leverage in that situation.

Lerxst1992

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Party like it's 1890 again.  

The balance of power hasn't swung massively towards employers since the Reagan Revolution ?

Before attacking unions please consider the NYC metro area. Massive union participation and a top notch economy.

I agree it could get annoying watching teachers get 6% raises in years of recession while we get wage freezes  in the private world

...or MTA workers bilk the ot system for $300,000 in OT wages per year

...but those of us on the outside looking in are cannon fodder to employers ;=)

A lot of one's perspective comes from what one considers as a 'worker'.  We're not a manufacturing society any longer, so the need for unions has dissipated steadily over the years.  Companies with white collar work forces have a strong focus on employee benefits, morale, etc.  They also believe in performance based pay, which is my perspective.  Collective bargaining can have, and still has, a place in jobs where there is no distinction in employee performance.  But the % of jobs that look like that continues to decrease.  So I'm not disparaging unions, I just think it's a silly and arbitrary goal.  I also think it has the unintended consequence of creating class separation between 'union' and 'management', making it difficult for high performing employees to break through into management.  

Performance based pay sounds nice in theory but to me rising to senior management, perhaps a 1 in a 100 chance, hinges as much on prospects groveling for attention and business leaders taking care of "friends."

I'll never forget my buddy in senior management at his co. at a meeting where ratings were being determined in advance of layoffs. I'll never forget how disgusted he looked when saying all the VPs exempted their 2 or 3 friends first and it was painfully obvious. And when he said "it's never any different at meetings like this."

Do you work in an environment where pay and promotion are performance based? 

Yes. And without getting into too much detail the metrics are more targeted towards pie in the sky tasks that have little to do with the daily functions.

But leaving that aside, that's how employers accomplish their goal, to maintain enormous leverage over employees.

I initially acknowledged unions come with alot of baggage but at will laws marginalize workers to an extreme. Sure I could play the free market but if I'm over 40 without revenue generating potential, good luck to me.