Poster problem solution - Timed editions

orchidland

So, after all of these years it is painfully obvious that the "kinks" have still not been worked out with the way posters are sold.  The answer - timed editions.  Whether it's 24 hours or 48 it doesn't matter.  The artist comes up with the image for the poster, there is an announcement on the site specifying the date for the sale, people have 24 hours to order the poster.  If they want to order 2, go for it.  They make an additional 1000 posters for sale at the show and leftovers on the site.  The printer makes XXXX number of posters.
Everyone wins here.  No more wasted time waiting for the poster to drop.  No more site crashing issues.  No more getting hosed only to see the flippers getting paid.
Limited edition posters benefit no one other that re-sellers.  
I honestly don't get it.  If the band cares about their fans, wants to get the art out for all, then the way they have been doing things does the exact opposite.  
I have a large poster collection with many valuable prints but the bottom line is I would rather have them be worth less to be able to enjoy more art.
By doing timed editions the print is still a limited edition item.  
Josh Keyes, Audrey Kawasaki, Tristan Eaton, James Jean, quite a few artists that I follow have gone this route because of the secondary market BS and it's worked.  And for those who care about value or investment, EVERY print that I have bought via timed editions are worth more than I paid initially.
It's time for change.  The way it's been done is a joke....
Just my 2 cents

bosshogg18

Even a lottery would be better. A lot of fans work and can't be just sitting by the computer or on phone refreshing all morning long. I have been collecting PJ posters since 1998 and remember when you could buy posters months after shows, and not just the less desirable ones, because I know there are people who are going to mention ones that are on the website now that have been there for awhile. Even in 2011 I bought the EV Seattle Pike Place Munk One AP 40 minutes after it went on sale and had no problem. I know these are different times and more people, a lot of them not even fans have dollar signs on their minds and technology such as bots to get these before working fans can get them. I miss the old days where if you really want it you could get it. Even if are on the PJ shop right when Santos announces drops you can still miss out...happened to me multiple, including  today. Had Berlin all the way through checkout up until hit submit and site crashes. Agree with original postern either print more, or have lottery. Either of these will limit scalpers with bots and or unlimited time on their hands.

EdsonNascimento

Believe it or not, the artist would sell LESS posters this way for these concerts.  Speculation and concern over future trades and such result in far more sales than any of these posters would get via a timed edition.   They also don't want leftovers. It costs them money in printing and storage. That's why they end up mystery poster tubing these things.

The artists you name are mostly doing that to allow the word to get out about their new venture to a greater number of people. Even your comment on their value - again that's related to the fact that most people aren't even aware of the posters you are talking about at time of print.  That is not a concern with these.    That is - People aren't sitting around waiting for a randomly created Star Wars print to come out. Then they see one they like that was released a year ago, and search it out. With PJ concert posters, there's not only a seminal moment to EXPECT them, but an urgent need to have one.  Creating both the market and after market at one moment.  If they were timed, nobody would buy at the show.  You would eliminate most of the after market. But, only b/c those people will have no need to speculate as most everyone who was there knows when it came out and when to get it.

You only think they haven't figured it out b/c you missed out on a poster recently.

KN219077

Lottery is best way to go...it at least gives you a chance. Ten Club doesn’t care becau They make the same amount either way

EdsonNascimento

KN219077 said:

Lottery is best way to go...it at least gives you a chance. Ten Club doesn’t care becau They make the same amount either way

How does a lottery compensate the artist best? The way they do it now sells the most posters.  Even if they don't all end up in the hands we'd like them to.  Or, we don't care about the artist?

TC282314

Agree. Current system works best to sell the most posters present and future. Flippers help demand which help sales. Nothing is broken except not everyone can have what they want. When everyone can have what they want, they will quickly realize they don’t REALLY want it. 

KN219077

EdsonNascimento said:

KN219077 said:

Lottery is best way to go...it at least gives you a chance. Ten Club doesn’t care becau They make the same amount either way

How does a lottery compensate the artist best? The way they do it now sells the most posters.  Even if they don't all end up in the hands we'd like them to.  Or, we don't care about the artist?

I mean, sell leftover posters in a lottery. Sell as many as possible at the show, which is obviously the point, then lotto the rest

orchidland

They haven't figured it out because of the site crashing issues, etc that have been going on for 15+ years.  You are right, I missed out on the Rome poster.  I did however by the smaller print that Emek made available on his website.  I like the art and am not concerned about the value.
The whole thing has just been a turnoff.  You know what's not fun?  Standing in a merch line at a show DURING the show and then toting around a poster tube while trying to rock out.  
It just all seems odd with the direction things have gone.  Why have merch tents outside the show venue for days selling everything to any Tom Dick and Harry who wait in line?  People who are not going the show and probably don't care about the band.  
The band members don't need the $$ at this point and supposedly are against flippers and re-sellers....right?
I've watched folks buy multiple sizes of every shirt, every poster, everything sold.  Why contribute to something you say you are against?

pjsteelerfan

So, timed editions for the really in demand posters? 

on2legs

I liked the poster drops.  It creates a buzz around here. I snagged a Rome the other day by total luck and today I was tied up at work and missed the Berlin.  That’s life... win some, lose some.  Congrats to the peeps who scored today

Milestone

I just don't think there is a solution. Some of the population are going to be unhappy no matter what the policy is.  Some people are going to get shut out.  Some are gonna buy multiples. Some people are going to flip.  Some are going to pay top dollar on Ebay. Some are going to stand in line for hours.  Some are going to get lucky and score one at the Santos drop. 

The only thing that is certain, is that 10C can't be happy about marking posters down to $24.50.  And they are happy when a poster sells out in minutes. 

This is why I'm not in favor of every member of the little league baseball team getting a "participation" trophy.  There are winners and losers in life. 

Ryan

By my count there are 9 Berlin posters on eBay.  If Pearl Jam sells 200-250 posters and 10% or less end up on eBay, I don’t think it’s worth their time to change how they sell these.  
Many posters have ended up in the shop for days/months/years.  For the few that are super sought after each tour, this isn’t worth their time and they probably like the frenzy.

TC282314

Exactly. And these in demand posters help sell not only the other posters, but everything else sold at the merch tables. 

BF89905

bosshogg18 said:

Even a lottery would be better. A lot of fans work and can't be just sitting by the computer or on phone refreshing all morning long. I have been collecting PJ posters since 1998 and remember when you could buy posters months after shows, and not just the less desirable ones, because I know there are people who are going to mention ones that are on the website now that have been there for awhile. Even in 2011 I bought the EV Seattle Pike Place Munk One AP 40 minutes after it went on sale and had no problem. I know these are different times and more people, a lot of them not even fans have dollar signs on their minds and technology such as bots to get these before working fans can get them. I miss the old days where if you really want it you could get it. Even if are on the PJ shop right when Santos announces drops you can still miss out...happened to me multiple, including  today. Had Berlin all the way through checkout up until hit submit and site crashes. Agree with original postern either print more, or have lottery. Either of these will limit scalpers with bots and or unlimited time on their hands.

A lottery would be better. Do it like the ticketing system. Fellow members claiming they 'earned' their tickets back in 2010 and 201, and or posters nowadays because they continuously refreshed their computer screens for the better part of an hour isn't something to be proud, it's depressing.

Increase the print runs or go to a lottery system. I like the artwork I choose to purchase. I've traded concert artwork straight up, and never sold artwork for personal profit. I believe the fans concerned about print run numbers are in it for their personal profit margins.

buck502000

Made to order - just like vault vinyl 

kramer73

The artists will never do this.

UseUrIllusions

What’s fair to some, might not be fair to others. People are going to be disappointed one way or another. 

KidAOK

In the same way 10c sold ticket stubs for the home and away shows (linked to tickets purchased through 10c) the same should be done for posters.  Concert attendees first preference.

I met some genuine amazing people across Europe this summer.  People who travelled thousands of miles to see PJ from all over the world.  The fact that some of them missed out on a poster to someone who could conceivably be sitting at home with their feet up unable to point out Berlin on a map is a load of bullshit.

Milestone

10C should come up with a way to make their poster tubes uniquely 10C identifiable. Make their tubes orange, or something like that. Or print the "to" and "from"  address on the tube so the sticker can't be peeled off. This would force the flipper to literally buy their own tubes to ship or else easily be identified by the buyer as a 10C flipper.  

crookedcross

How they do it today is the best way to maximize the demand and make money.  10C is a business.  Businesses like money.  Santos saying "when there is supply there is no demand" proves that.  After seeing that statement, is when I stopped thinking about the what-ifs. 10C isn't about getting stuck with a warehouse full of posters and losing profits just to make everybody happy.  That is obvious, but as a business that is also okay.  I don't think things will change regardless of what better solution is out there, because anything other than what they are doing now, means less revenue for 10C. The merch situation and the forced demand around here is genius in my opinion, -crashing site and all. At the end of the day, it's a business, and it's a poster. 

drfox

I think the key issue is that 10c significantly underestimated the demand for some of the euro posters. They printed about the right quantity of posters for places like London where the demand is more tested and poster collecting is a more mature market (I’m from the UK and been doing it for years). However they underestimated demand at places like Italy, Czech and Germany. In each of these places I think a lot more people were buying them at the show compared to previous years, resulting in huge demand on the drops... This was then exacerbated when they had the best posters of the world tour.

JojoRice

I agree with doing a lottery system for the posters.  Similar to how ticket lottery is done.  And any posters left over after the lottery get listed in shop on first come first serve basis. 

Lowlight

crookedcross said:

How they do it today is the best way to maximize the demand and make money.  10C is a business.  Businesses like money.  Santos saying "when there is supply there is no demand" proves that.  After seeing that statement, is when I stopped thinking about the what-ifs. 10C isn't about getting stuck with a warehouse full of posters and losing profits just to make everybody happy.  That is obvious, but as a business that is also okay.  I don't think things will change regardless of what better solution is out there, because anything other than what they are doing now, means less revenue for 10C. The merch situation and the forced demand around here is genius in my opinion, -crashing site and all. At the end of the day, it's a business, and it's a poster. 

Peasant Tents

buck502000 said:

Made to order - just like vault vinyl 

Yep... This is the way to go. 
Those in it for the event poster will order.
Those in it just for collecting every poster will still order
Flippers will stop ordering.  
There would be little change in the total sold unless people are really only buying because of a perceived value that they are never going to realise because they are not flippers?.......

Only flippers loose this way.

MayDay10

Timed versions, or made to order would kill the artificial demand and the microeconomy will go bust.  It also does degrade a lot of the 'collectibility' aspect too.  

I do still like the idea of allowing 10c ticket holders and possible verifiable ticket holders preferred access, whether its a presale, or some sort of sale window after the fact for the extras

madhat181

KidAOK said:

In the same way 10c sold ticket stubs for the home and away shows (linked to tickets purchased through 10c) the same should be done for posters.  Concert attendees first preference.

I like this idea. I don't know how posters were sold in Europe. But the 7 shows in the US there there were merch tents outside the venue where anyone could line up. I was on the line at wrigley and in front of me was a guy from Task Rabbit that was hired to buy 2 of each poster that was available. There should have been more in the venue where you actually need a ticket to buy something. I know at arena shows I've been to you couldn't get a poster until you were inside.

BC62528

I still believe if we could pre-order the posters along with other merchandise when we get our Ten Club tickets it would be the "cleanest" way to handle this issue and also enhance the concert experience for those attending, rather than spending needless hours waiting in lines with the "professional shoppers" and not being able to explore the city and spending time with friends - which is what it should be about in my opinion.  If you are searching for a poster to a show you didn't attend than I am fine with the current luck of the draw system, as flawed and frustrating as it may be.  Although if we went to a pre-order system, we might be forced to discuss the shows, the band and the music, rather than posters and other merchandise...How refreshing that would be.

on2legs

Ten club just handed off their ticketing to Ticketmaster.  Highly doubt they want to now worry about sorting out poster preorders and dealing with people complaining that they don’t like the poster or it has a ding in the corner. 

madtowndave

on2legs said:

Ten club just handed off their ticketing to Ticketmaster.  Highly doubt they want to now worry about sorting out poster preorders and dealing with people complaining that they don’t like the poster or it has a ding in the corner. 

I did the poster pre-order for the 2009 Chicago shows. Did I like the posters? No. Do I still have them? No. Did I complain about the artwork? No. I knew it would be a luck of the draw. Would I do it again? Yes.

I don't know how people complained when they knew they were purchasing something blind. IMO, pre-order is the best solution.

vedderman72

The fair thing to do is to announce a date and time for each drop or at least a date! Most people don't have the time to sit and watch the site for a drop!

on2legs

madtowndave said:

on2legs said:

Ten club just handed off their ticketing to Ticketmaster.  Highly doubt they want to now worry about sorting out poster preorders and dealing with people complaining that they don’t like the poster or it has a ding in the corner. 

I did the poster pre-order for the 2009 Chicago shows. Did I like the posters? No. Do I still have them? No. Did I complain about the artwork? No. I knew it would be a luck of the draw. Would I do it again? Yes.

I don't know how people complained when they knew they were purchasing something blind. IMO, pre-order is the best solution.

I think most people are not as reasonable as you.  

There were so many people that complained this tour about not being able to get refunds on tickets they were told from the start were not refundable.