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Meltdown99Meltdown99 Posts: 10,739
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Mandalay Bay casino owner sues survivors of Las Vegas gun massacre

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/mgm-las-vegas-lawsuit-1.4750500?cmp=FB_Post_News
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  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Posts: 15,165
    Fkn crazy
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,355
    Meltdown99 said:
    Mandalay Bay casino owner sues survivors of Las Vegas gun massacre

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/mgm-las-vegas-lawsuit-1.4750500?cmp=FB_Post_News
    This may come off as callous but what is Mandalay bay supposed to do?  They have 2500 lawsuits against them pending.  That is insane.

    If this would take precedent in the courts then every time an incident happens the promoter/venue whatever will be held liable.

    The concert venue there might be held accountable.  Eventually it all snowballs out of control with litigation.
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain Posts: 31,265
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    Mandalay Bay casino owner sues survivors of Las Vegas gun massacre

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/mgm-las-vegas-lawsuit-1.4750500?cmp=FB_Post_News
    This may come off as callous but what is Mandalay bay supposed to do?  They have 2500 lawsuits against them pending.  That is insane.

    If this would take precedent in the courts then every time an incident happens the promoter/venue whatever will be held liable.

    The concert venue there might be held accountable.  Eventually it all snowballs out of control with litigation.
    This makes sense to me.  It comes off as crazy but how in the hell are they going to sit there and be sued by everyone else for some psycho's actions.  I don't see how they can be held liable.
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Posts: 12,845
    They don’t have to sue; they can instead defend the suits against them. 

    It would be easier to understand this if further details were given about the process. I assume (and hope) that they aren’t actually suing the victims for any financial costs, but are instead just trying to bar them from launching their own suits. But do the victims have to appear in court to defend themselves? My rather limited understanding is that if a suit is launched against you and you don’t appear to defend yourself, then you typically lose. If so, I agree it’s egregious of MGM to force grieving victims into court. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,355
    oftenreading said:
    They don’t have to sue; they can instead defend the suits against them. 

    It would be easier to understand this if further details were given about the process. I assume (and hope) that they aren’t actually suing the victims for any financial costs, but are instead just trying to bar them from launching their own suits. But do the victims have to appear in court to defend themselves? My rather limited understanding is that if a suit is launched against you and you don’t appear to defend yourself, then you typically lose. If so, I agree it’s egregious of MGM to force grieving victims into court. 
    Most of the filings were in California due to injuries sustained and limiting their travel to LV so it was thought out.

    Secondly the suits filed by Mandalay are not monetary but for liability.  If they get nailed with liability then they will pay into tens of millions and set a precedent in future cases.
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain Posts: 31,265
    oftenreading said:
    They don’t have to sue; they can instead defend the suits against them. 

    It would be easier to understand this if further details were given about the process. I assume (and hope) that they aren’t actually suing the victims for any financial costs, but are instead just trying to bar them from launching their own suits. But do the victims have to appear in court to defend themselves? My rather limited understanding is that if a suit is launched against you and you don’t appear to defend yourself, then you typically lose. If so, I agree it’s egregious of MGM to force grieving victims into court. 
    I thought it said they are suing the people who either sued them or did not agree not to sue them. 
    We sue over everything here.  My fishing trip last weekend had 2 lawyers and 4 doctors on it.  The talk of lawsuits surrounding medical stuff made me want to vomit.  So many assholes out there doing everything they can to take advantage of the system.  The system responding and making all of these crazy rules just to try and make sure they don't get sued.  I had to go and hang with the regular folk a few times to get out of the shit conversations that group was having.
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 Posts: 10,739
    I do not care what anyone say's....Mandalay Bay holds a degree of responsibility.  This dude somehow snuck a small weapons cache into his room with all that ammo ... and security did not red flag this guy.  That a fucking Vegas casino...they have tighter security than Fort Knox (so I thought).
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain Posts: 31,265
    Meltdown99 said:
    I do not care what anyone say's....Mandalay Bay holds a degree of responsibility.  This dude somehow snuck a small weapons cache into his room with all that ammo ... and security did not red flag this guy.  That a fucking Vegas casino...they have tighter security than Fort Knox (so I thought).
    They have next to no true security to try and stop something like this.  I have never been in a hotel that does.  If he just carries things up in luggage they would never know.
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Posts: 12,845
    F Me In The Brain said:
    oftenreading said:
    They don’t have to sue; they can instead defend the suits against them. 

    It would be easier to understand this if further details were given about the process. I assume (and hope) that they aren’t actually suing the victims for any financial costs, but are instead just trying to bar them from launching their own suits. But do the victims have to appear in court to defend themselves? My rather limited understanding is that if a suit is launched against you and you don’t appear to defend yourself, then you typically lose. If so, I agree it’s egregious of MGM to force grieving victims into court. 
    I thought it said they are suing the people who either sued them or did not agree not to sue them. 
    We sue over everything here.  My fishing trip last weekend had 2 lawyers and 4 doctors on it.  The talk of lawsuits surrounding medical stuff made me want to vomit.  So many assholes out there doing everything they can to take advantage of the system.  The system responding and making all of these crazy rules just to try and make sure they don't get sued.  I had to go and hang with the regular folk a few times to get out of the shit conversations that group was having.
    I agree that the US is certainly lawsuit-happy, but having said that, I tend to think this counter-suit is an abuse of the legal system. The law which they are trying to base it on was designed to limit the liability of manufacturers of counter-terrorism equipment/services in case their product did not perfectly prevent a terrorist attack. This is not that situation.

    However, I do think it's interesting that, for this case to succeed, it has to define the shooting as "terrorism". Some people are so reluctant to do that, since it doesn't involve a brown Muslim person. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    Meltdown99 said:
    I do not care what anyone say's....Mandalay Bay holds a degree of responsibility.  This dude somehow snuck a small weapons cache into his room with all that ammo ... and security did not red flag this guy.  That a fucking Vegas casino...they have tighter security than Fort Knox (so I thought).
    I completely disagree.

    And it's funny how we don't even bother to suggest the gun shops that sold the mountain of ammunition and pile of guns as complicit/ (and the laws which allow for some loser to do so)- 'this' is the real subject of your thread title.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 Posts: 10,739
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    I do not care what anyone say's....Mandalay Bay holds a degree of responsibility.  This dude somehow snuck a small weapons cache into his room with all that ammo ... and security did not red flag this guy.  That a fucking Vegas casino...they have tighter security than Fort Knox (so I thought).
    I completely disagree.

    And it's funny how we don't even bother to suggest the gun shops that sold the mountain of ammunition and pile of guns as complicit/ (and the laws which allow for some loser to do so)- 'this' is the real subject of your thread title.
    Because I am not entering in to a gun debate.  Nothing will change in America regarding guns and there gun laws.
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 Posts: 10,739

    oftenreading said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    oftenreading said:
    They don’t have to sue; they can instead defend the suits against them. 

    It would be easier to understand this if further details were given about the process. I assume (and hope) that they aren’t actually suing the victims for any financial costs, but are instead just trying to bar them from launching their own suits. But do the victims have to appear in court to defend themselves? My rather limited understanding is that if a suit is launched against you and you don’t appear to defend yourself, then you typically lose. If so, I agree it’s egregious of MGM to force grieving victims into court. 
    I thought it said they are suing the people who either sued them or did not agree not to sue them. 
    We sue over everything here.  My fishing trip last weekend had 2 lawyers and 4 doctors on it.  The talk of lawsuits surrounding medical stuff made me want to vomit.  So many assholes out there doing everything they can to take advantage of the system.  The system responding and making all of these crazy rules just to try and make sure they don't get sued.  I had to go and hang with the regular folk a few times to get out of the shit conversations that group was having.
    I agree that the US is certainly lawsuit-happy, but having said that, I tend to think this counter-suit is an abuse of the legal system. The law which they are trying to base it on was designed to limit the liability of manufacturers of counter-terrorism equipment/services in case their product did not perfectly prevent a terrorist attack. This is not that situation.

    However, I do think it's interesting that, for this case to succeed, it has to define the shooting as "terrorism". Some people are so reluctant to do that, since it doesn't involve a brown Muslim person. 
    No doubt in my mind that was an act of terrorism...
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 Posts: 10,739

    F Me In The Brain said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    I do not care what anyone say's....Mandalay Bay holds a degree of responsibility.  This dude somehow snuck a small weapons cache into his room with all that ammo ... and security did not red flag this guy.  That a fucking Vegas casino...they have tighter security than Fort Knox (so I thought).
    They have next to no true security to try and stop something like this.  I have never been in a hotel that does.  If he just carries things up in luggage they would never know.
    I just find hard to believe he could get that many weapons and ammo and didn't raise a red flag.  My guess is they were complacent.  Plus people really pay much attention these days.
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain Posts: 31,265
    They are inside luggage I don't think anyone would know the difference
    Dude could take multiple trips
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 9,810
    edited July 2018
    F Me In The Brain said:
    They are inside luggage I don't think anyone would know the difference
    Dude could take multiple trips
    I think there's a fine line in this situation where the hotel staff/security/manager should be held partially responsible, as should the gun manufacturer and whoever designed those bump stocks. The hotel was lax in its security because they had no reason to expect something like this so they didn't raise an eye when the shooter reserved all those rooms and hauled in bag after bag of guns and ammo. That should have drawn attention, and probably did, but none of them considered the type of scenario that played out being a risk.

    Doesn't anyone remember the airlines being sued after 9/11? They won a major lawsuit. It sucks, but we have security measures for a reason.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/18/nyregion/cantor-fitzgerald-settles-9-11-lawsuit-for-135-million.html
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    F Me In The Brain said:
    They are inside luggage I don't think anyone would know the difference
    Dude could take multiple trips
    It didn’t involve cheating on the craps table, so the hotel paid no attention.
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,445
    How many lawsuits in the kids stuck in a cave case? Are there any? 

    The problem isn’t Mandalay Bay, it’s the US legal system and our people’s over willingness to use it for everything. 
    hippiemom = goodness
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Posts: 12,845
    cincybearcat said:
    How many lawsuits in the kids stuck in a cave case? Are there any? 

    The problem isn’t Mandalay Bay, it’s the US legal system and our people’s over willingness to use it for everything. 
    The American legal system is a big part of it, but this isn’t exactly a trivial case. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 Posts: 10,739
    F Me In The Brain said:
    They are inside luggage I don't think anyone would know the difference
    Dude could take multiple trips
    How many bags of luggage did he have?  Or did he re-use the same luggage.
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 Posts: 10,739

    PJPOWER said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    They are inside luggage I don't think anyone would know the difference
    Dude could take multiple trips
    It didn’t involve cheating on the craps table, so the hotel paid no attention.
    That sounds to be about the best answer.  
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    edited July 2018
    Meltdown99 said:

    PJPOWER said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    They are inside luggage I don't think anyone would know the difference
    Dude could take multiple trips
    It didn’t involve cheating on the craps table, so the hotel paid no attention.
    That sounds to be about the best answer.  
    That, and who is to say the dude wasn’t carrying bags of dildos and whip cream?  There is some crazy shit that goes on in Vegas, lol
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain Posts: 31,265
    Meltdown99 said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    They are inside luggage I don't think anyone would know the difference
    Dude could take multiple trips
    How many bags of luggage did he have?  Or did he re-use the same luggage.
    Would it matter?
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    Meltdown99 said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    I do not care what anyone say's....Mandalay Bay holds a degree of responsibility.  This dude somehow snuck a small weapons cache into his room with all that ammo ... and security did not red flag this guy.  That a fucking Vegas casino...they have tighter security than Fort Knox (so I thought).
    I completely disagree.

    And it's funny how we don't even bother to suggest the gun shops that sold the mountain of ammunition and pile of guns as complicit/ (and the laws which allow for some loser to do so)- 'this' is the real subject of your thread title.
    Because I am not entering in to a gun debate.  Nothing will change in America regarding guns and there gun laws.

    I wasn't directing this at you (even though it kinda sounds that way). I meant in a general sense.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 Posts: 10,739
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    I do not care what anyone say's....Mandalay Bay holds a degree of responsibility.  This dude somehow snuck a small weapons cache into his room with all that ammo ... and security did not red flag this guy.  That a fucking Vegas casino...they have tighter security than Fort Knox (so I thought).
    I completely disagree.

    And it's funny how we don't even bother to suggest the gun shops that sold the mountain of ammunition and pile of guns as complicit/ (and the laws which allow for some loser to do so)- 'this' is the real subject of your thread title.
    Because I am not entering in to a gun debate.  Nothing will change in America regarding guns and there gun laws.

    I wasn't directing this at you (even though it kinda sounds that way). I meant in a general sense.
    No problem ... just certain debates to me are a waste of my energy.  The US gun problem and Donald Trump...LOL
    Give Peas A Chance…
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