Standing up in seated sections....

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  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,586
    derbydave said:
    At GCF, I sat on the ground for most of the acts.  They sucked ass and were boring. 
    Still upset for my wife for crapping on the backstage VIP 1 tickets!  ;)

    I'll bet you were dancing your @$$ off during Beyoncé though!! :rofl:
    I admit to standing for that.  First, it was dark and other people were dancing and I didn't want to get stomped on.  Second, she put on a decent man-hating dance contest.  Not sure if she did any singing in there -- but that lady can man-hate with the best of 'em.  ;)

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  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,833
    PJ_Soul said:
    I haven't read the thread, so this has likely already been said, but my perspective is that one should pretty much just go with whatever everyone around them is doing. If everyone is standing, stand up... If plenty of people are standing but many are also sitting, do whatever you want and keep your trap shut if you choose to sit while the person in front of you stands, and if everyone is sitting and you're the only one standing, that's your signal to get your ass back in your chair, lol, or at least leave your seat and go up behind the seats, like at the entrance to the section, so you can boogie without being an obstruction. And what that all boils down to is being reasonably considerate of those around you and going with the general flow. It's the burden of being a member of a crowd. You're not completely just an individual when you're part of a crowd, figuratively.
    As for the issue of people who can't stand for one reason or another.... I think that's just too bad, to be blunt. If they can't stand during a show where many others are standing, they should be thinking about how they will make smarter choices when buying tickets going forward.
    Exactly this. If everyone stands, I’ll gladly stand, if everyone sits, I’ll keep seated. The only thing that bothers me when on my seat while only the two people in front of me stand is that if I stand then the same thing happens for the neighbours in the back. As a young adult I would never sit but therefore always took GA. Now I mix it up between GA and seated. While I understand the rock concert argument it’s really about courtesy to me. If I couldn’t stand being seated then I would still take GA every time.
    In general I'm the same, I'll sit if most people are (and as I did at this show), and usually get up towards the end when the energy levels are starting to peak.  It only really needs for a couple of people to stand up for a domino effect and everyone starts standing though.  Even the moaning chumley behind me was standing by the time Alive came on!

    I do understand the mindset of being considerate, obviously, but as I've said elsewhere in the thread, I just don't think it's possible to accommodate everybody's needs.  By the sounds of things this is something venues probably could do more about. 

    It sickens me when I go to sold-out shows at places like the O2 that have private boxes and they're sitting empty, maybe they should reserve some of them for people who have specific medical needs.  
  • derbydavederbydave Columbus, OH Posts: 11,254
    derbydave said:
    At GCF, I sat on the ground for most of the acts.  They sucked ass and were boring. 
    Still upset for my wife for crapping on the backstage VIP 1 tickets!  ;)

    I'll bet you were dancing your @$$ off during Beyoncé though!! :rofl:
    I admit to standing for that.  First, it was dark and other people were dancing and I didn't want to get stomped on.  Second, she put on a decent man-hating dance contest.  Not sure if she did any singing in there -- but that lady can man-hate with the best of 'em.  ;)


    It was pretty chilly by that point too...
    moving around helped me stay warm!!

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  • Vedd HeddVedd Hedd Posts: 4,329
    I understand if you cant physically stand.   There are ADA seats, there are people that will move you up, help you see.  Ask an user for a better seat, I have gone to shows with someone in a wheelchair and she was able to get a spot where she could see.  

    That said....its a rock concert....I kinda get mad when people sit down....its not a movie.   

    Unless its an acoustic event...thats a different story.  Saw Ed live, those are "sitting until the encore" type shows.  Neil Young did a show or two like that, too.   If the singer/band ask you to sit, then you sit.  Otherwise....this is a rock concert.....you SHOULD be dancing.  
    And I need to take breaks from time to time....I am fully ok with not seeing every single facial movement by the band.  Im there for the music and to dance and rock out.   Don't ask me to sit just so you can sit, too. 
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  • Vedd HeddVedd Hedd Posts: 4,329
    ZeldaZonk said:
    PJWGIII said:

    ZeldaZonk said:
    Speaking as someone who usually sits the majority of any show, not all of us are able to physically endure standing for three or more hours. I go to multiple shows a month, but I couldn't do it if I had to stand. I shouldn't be expected to "go watch a f*ucking opera" or "stay home and watch on tv" or "go home and watch on youtube". That's pretty rude. I'd love to be able to hang out in GA like most of us would prefer, but it's not in the cards. Yet I don't want to miss out on an amazing live performance and shouldn't be expected to, so the seats are my option. And I'm definitely one of those who dances in the seats, so don't think I'm not having a blast just because I'm not standing. It's just not ideal to be trying to see the show when all you can see are the people's backs and butts in front of you. Watching it on the jumbo screens is NOT the same, but sometimes that's the only way to see. 

    And for those who think sitting during a concert is lame, I was at a rock show in Seattle two months ago. It was front row of the balcony, and I had two members of PJ sitting in the same row as me. One was directly next to me on my right, the other was a few seats down on my left side. Do you think either of them stood? NOPE! And out of respect for the guys, that's all I'm going to say about that evening.
    This is completely a valid point of view, but you wouldn't have the expectation that people will sit down, correct?
    Probably not the expectation (depending on the show), but the hope that people around me would be considerate and not selfishly ruin the entire show. 
    While I understand this point, and I want to find a solution to it....if you were in...say....Row 15, and the 14 rows in front of you were all standing....thats a lot of people to tell to sit down so you can see. 
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  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,586
    Vedd Hedd said:
    ZeldaZonk said:
    PJWGIII said:

    ZeldaZonk said:
    Speaking as someone who usually sits the majority of any show, not all of us are able to physically endure standing for three or more hours. I go to multiple shows a month, but I couldn't do it if I had to stand. I shouldn't be expected to "go watch a f*ucking opera" or "stay home and watch on tv" or "go home and watch on youtube". That's pretty rude. I'd love to be able to hang out in GA like most of us would prefer, but it's not in the cards. Yet I don't want to miss out on an amazing live performance and shouldn't be expected to, so the seats are my option. And I'm definitely one of those who dances in the seats, so don't think I'm not having a blast just because I'm not standing. It's just not ideal to be trying to see the show when all you can see are the people's backs and butts in front of you. Watching it on the jumbo screens is NOT the same, but sometimes that's the only way to see. 

    And for those who think sitting during a concert is lame, I was at a rock show in Seattle two months ago. It was front row of the balcony, and I had two members of PJ sitting in the same row as me. One was directly next to me on my right, the other was a few seats down on my left side. Do you think either of them stood? NOPE! And out of respect for the guys, that's all I'm going to say about that evening.
    This is completely a valid point of view, but you wouldn't have the expectation that people will sit down, correct?
    Probably not the expectation (depending on the show), but the hope that people around me would be considerate and not selfishly ruin the entire show. 
    While I understand this point, and I want to find a solution to it....if you were in...say....Row 15, and the 14 rows in front of you were all standing....thats a lot of people to tell to sit down so you can see. 
    They are all selfish and inconsiderate?
    :confused:
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  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,473
    Vedd Hedd said:
    ZeldaZonk said:
    PJWGIII said:

    ZeldaZonk said:
    Speaking as someone who usually sits the majority of any show, not all of us are able to physically endure standing for three or more hours. I go to multiple shows a month, but I couldn't do it if I had to stand. I shouldn't be expected to "go watch a f*ucking opera" or "stay home and watch on tv" or "go home and watch on youtube". That's pretty rude. I'd love to be able to hang out in GA like most of us would prefer, but it's not in the cards. Yet I don't want to miss out on an amazing live performance and shouldn't be expected to, so the seats are my option. And I'm definitely one of those who dances in the seats, so don't think I'm not having a blast just because I'm not standing. It's just not ideal to be trying to see the show when all you can see are the people's backs and butts in front of you. Watching it on the jumbo screens is NOT the same, but sometimes that's the only way to see. 

    And for those who think sitting during a concert is lame, I was at a rock show in Seattle two months ago. It was front row of the balcony, and I had two members of PJ sitting in the same row as me. One was directly next to me on my right, the other was a few seats down on my left side. Do you think either of them stood? NOPE! And out of respect for the guys, that's all I'm going to say about that evening.
    This is completely a valid point of view, but you wouldn't have the expectation that people will sit down, correct?
    Probably not the expectation (depending on the show), but the hope that people around me would be considerate and not selfishly ruin the entire show. 
    While I understand this point, and I want to find a solution to it....if you were in...say....Row 15, and the 14 rows in front of you were all standing....thats a lot of people to tell to sit down so you can see. 
    Not only that, but sitting for the show ruins it for a lot of people, so who exactly is supposed to be selfish and inconsiderate in this scenario?? They may be "ruining" the sitting person's show by standing, but the sitter may very well be ruining the show for them by insisting they sit just for their own benefit.
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  • ham_on_ryeham_on_rye Indiana Dunes Posts: 205
    If I was in row one I would swap seats with you, happily....but otherwise I don't know if I would sit down.  That would ruin my show.  Not sure why you have to have it your way or everyone else is selfish.

    This! ^^
  • ZeldaZonkZeldaZonk Seattle Posts: 614
    fizzyade said:
    ZeldaZonk said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I haven't read the thread, so this has likely already been said, but my perspective is that one should pretty much just go with whatever everyone around them is doing. If everyone is standing, stand up... If plenty of people are standing but many are also sitting, do whatever you want and keep your trap shut if you choose to sit while the person in front of you stands, and if everyone is sitting and you're the only one standing, that's your signal to get your ass back in your chair, lol, or at least leave your seat and go up behind the seats, like at the entrance to the section, so you can boogie without being an obstruction. And what that all boils down to is being reasonably considerate of those around you and going with the general flow. It's the burden of being a member of a crowd. You're not completely just an individual when you're part of a crowd, figuratively.
    As for the issue of people who can't stand for one reason or another.... I think that's just too bad, to be blunt. If they can't stand during a show where many others are standing, they should be thinking about how they will make smarter choices when buying tickets going forward.
    Hmmm.....interesting. There are only a limited number of ADA seats available at any show, even fewer when it comes to 10c tickets. So I either have to request ADA seats and hope I make the lottery, or put in for reserved seats and then cross my fingers/deal with the consequences. What kind of "smarter choices" are you referring to? Miss the show? I got shut out of ADA seats for TOTD in Seattle and ended up having to buy reserved seats from someone on Craigslist for a hefty price. Missing the show was NOT an option for me, and thankfully I didn't miss it seeing as what happened last year with Chris.
    This 100%. This is the same situation as me for the second night.  No accessible seats available but general seating was, if I wanted to go then I had no choice but to take these seats.

    Unless people have tried to buy accessible tickets themselves, I think it's hard to understand how difficult it can be.  Here in the UK it's rare to be able to buy them online, usually you have to phone a special number and pray that there are some left by the time somebody answers.

    I've been to venues (small ones) where there is literally one or two spaces in the entire place for wheelchair users!
    Exactly. It's not as easy as a lot of people seem to think, and that's the problem. I had to take regular reserved seating for the Home Shows, and I'm not exactly looking forward to the challenge it's going to create. Hopefully the ushers can make other accommodations, but I'm not counting on it.
    Forever feeling the sting of Raleigh 2016
  • ZeldaZonkZeldaZonk Seattle Posts: 614
    Vedd Hedd said:
    ZeldaZonk said:
    PJWGIII said:

    ZeldaZonk said:
    Speaking as someone who usually sits the majority of any show, not all of us are able to physically endure standing for three or more hours. I go to multiple shows a month, but I couldn't do it if I had to stand. I shouldn't be expected to "go watch a f*ucking opera" or "stay home and watch on tv" or "go home and watch on youtube". That's pretty rude. I'd love to be able to hang out in GA like most of us would prefer, but it's not in the cards. Yet I don't want to miss out on an amazing live performance and shouldn't be expected to, so the seats are my option. And I'm definitely one of those who dances in the seats, so don't think I'm not having a blast just because I'm not standing. It's just not ideal to be trying to see the show when all you can see are the people's backs and butts in front of you. Watching it on the jumbo screens is NOT the same, but sometimes that's the only way to see. 

    And for those who think sitting during a concert is lame, I was at a rock show in Seattle two months ago. It was front row of the balcony, and I had two members of PJ sitting in the same row as me. One was directly next to me on my right, the other was a few seats down on my left side. Do you think either of them stood? NOPE! And out of respect for the guys, that's all I'm going to say about that evening.
    This is completely a valid point of view, but you wouldn't have the expectation that people will sit down, correct?
    Probably not the expectation (depending on the show), but the hope that people around me would be considerate and not selfishly ruin the entire show. 
    While I understand this point, and I want to find a solution to it....if you were in...say....Row 15, and the 14 rows in front of you were all standing....thats a lot of people to tell to sit down so you can see. 
    I know. It's a tough situation for everyone involved. Not sure what the Home Shows are going to bring for me because I wasn't able to get ADA from 10c, only reserved. Hoping to get assistance from an usher for those shows. And thanks for your understanding/empathy in the situation and knowing that it's not just a selfish request. 
    Forever feeling the sting of Raleigh 2016
  • OceansMagnetOceansMagnet Posts: 1,031
    OP could you not have traded spots with the person that wanted to sit so that you wouldn’t be obstructing their view and both been happy? 
  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,833
    OP could you not have traded spots with the person that wanted to sit so that you wouldn’t be obstructing their view and both been happy? 
    That didn't occur to me in the moment, and I don't think he would have been up for that, I was with my friends, he was with his........besides the couple of rows behind him were still sitting as well, so potentially I would have said the same issue.  I think I showed compromise by sitting for the majority of the show, these people weren't all disabled, they just didn't want to stand up, which, as has been discussed fairly extensively, is pretty unrealistic, at a rock show - especially when the venue are saying it's fine.
  • lolobugglolobugg BLUE RDGE MTNS Posts: 8,175
    ZeldaZonk said:
    Vedd Hedd said:
    ZeldaZonk said:
    PJWGIII said:

    ZeldaZonk said:
    Speaking as someone who usually sits the majority of any show, not all of us are able to physically endure standing for three or more hours. I go to multiple shows a month, but I couldn't do it if I had to stand. I shouldn't be expected to "go watch a f*ucking opera" or "stay home and watch on tv" or "go home and watch on youtube". That's pretty rude. I'd love to be able to hang out in GA like most of us would prefer, but it's not in the cards. Yet I don't want to miss out on an amazing live performance and shouldn't be expected to, so the seats are my option. And I'm definitely one of those who dances in the seats, so don't think I'm not having a blast just because I'm not standing. It's just not ideal to be trying to see the show when all you can see are the people's backs and butts in front of you. Watching it on the jumbo screens is NOT the same, but sometimes that's the only way to see. 

    And for those who think sitting during a concert is lame, I was at a rock show in Seattle two months ago. It was front row of the balcony, and I had two members of PJ sitting in the same row as me. One was directly next to me on my right, the other was a few seats down on my left side. Do you think either of them stood? NOPE! And out of respect for the guys, that's all I'm going to say about that evening.
    This is completely a valid point of view, but you wouldn't have the expectation that people will sit down, correct?
    Probably not the expectation (depending on the show), but the hope that people around me would be considerate and not selfishly ruin the entire show. 
    While I understand this point, and I want to find a solution to it....if you were in...say....Row 15, and the 14 rows in front of you were all standing....thats a lot of people to tell to sit down so you can see. 
    I know. It's a tough situation for everyone involved. Not sure what the Home Shows are going to bring for me because I wasn't able to get ADA from 10c, only reserved. Hoping to get assistance from an usher for those shows. And thanks for your understanding/empathy in the situation and knowing that it's not just a selfish request. 

    I hope you enjoy the shows!!!

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  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 11,604
    Basically its up to you to get the feel for people around you.  My experience is 10c sections will stand from the minute the band takes the stage to the end.  Non-10c, people most often sit.  If everyone around you is sitting, its a bit tacky and inconsiderate to stay standing and dance around.
  • PJNBPJNB Posts: 12,622
    Surprised with the people that think you should sit just because others around you are sitting. This is Pearl Jam. 
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,586
    I have not been to a PJ show where most people were seated around me.  Ever. 

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  • faithful2youfaithful2you Madison, WI Posts: 778
    I would never ask (or certainly not tell) someone to sit down in front of me at a concert because I wanted to or even needed to.   When I go to concerts the expectation is that I will be standing if I want to see.   Pretty simple.  To expect everyone in front of you, whether is 5 rows or 30 rows of people, to sit because you want or need to sit is ridiculous if you ask me; especially at shows like this.   You pretty much know what your're getting into when you decide to buy the tickets.   It's part of the game.        
    Like a word misplaced...nothing said...what a waste
  • drakeheuer14drakeheuer14 Posts: 4,368
    Seats are just a placeholder to control the system more than anything. Not a restriction that makes you inconsiderate for not using it
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  • mattsavardmattsavard Posts: 518
    KC138045 said:
    I'm going to sit Indian style in Wrigley night 2 GA.  Who's with me?!?
    In!
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  • CDEANSEATTLECDEANSEATTLE Seattle Posts: 33
    KC138045 said:
    I'm going to sit Indian style in Wrigley night 2 GA.  Who's with me?!?
    In!

    Were in too! Can we bring our Mariners stadium seat cushions as well? Im in my 50's

  • Magic_JMagic_J Uk Posts: 28
    I was up in 401 (nosebleed high on the left of the stage right next to the wall). I was really excited that the venue guidelines said it was ok to stand, but no one in my bit of that section did (that I saw) until Alive right near the end. I coulda, and would loved to have stood all night (with a bit of vertigo, fuck those seats were high up!) but I managed to have a good time anyway doing weird chair rocking out moves ;) I didn’t feel any animosity towards everyone around me staying seated but I had hoped people would stand. It never occurred to me just to stand anyway when everyone was seated, but at the same time I never felt pressure to stay seated. TBF I was pretty intranced with the overhead view of the stage I had, and as is it was my first PJ show I was enjoying being able to see what was going on on the stage. And when I did stand up the lighting rig kinda blocked the view a bit. If I’m ever lucky enough to get to another PJ gig I’m standing the whole thing, wherever I’ve got a ticket for, but I’d be happy to move around a bit so not to ruin anyone’s night. 

    Someone here mentioned sitting for Crosby Stills and Nash, same when I saw them with my dad and uncle a few years back. I didn’t mind, the average age was, as my dad put it, “fucking old” , “if we get separated no use looking for an old balding man, you’ll never find me among this lot”  =)
  • ZeldaZonkZeldaZonk Seattle Posts: 614
    lolobugg said:
    ZeldaZonk said:
    Vedd Hedd said:
    ZeldaZonk said:
    PJWGIII said:

    ZeldaZonk said:
    Speaking as someone who usually sits the majority of any show, not all of us are able to physically endure standing for three or more hours. I go to multiple shows a month, but I couldn't do it if I had to stand. I shouldn't be expected to "go watch a f*ucking opera" or "stay home and watch on tv" or "go home and watch on youtube". That's pretty rude. I'd love to be able to hang out in GA like most of us would prefer, but it's not in the cards. Yet I don't want to miss out on an amazing live performance and shouldn't be expected to, so the seats are my option. And I'm definitely one of those who dances in the seats, so don't think I'm not having a blast just because I'm not standing. It's just not ideal to be trying to see the show when all you can see are the people's backs and butts in front of you. Watching it on the jumbo screens is NOT the same, but sometimes that's the only way to see. 

    And for those who think sitting during a concert is lame, I was at a rock show in Seattle two months ago. It was front row of the balcony, and I had two members of PJ sitting in the same row as me. One was directly next to me on my right, the other was a few seats down on my left side. Do you think either of them stood? NOPE! And out of respect for the guys, that's all I'm going to say about that evening.
    This is completely a valid point of view, but you wouldn't have the expectation that people will sit down, correct?
    Probably not the expectation (depending on the show), but the hope that people around me would be considerate and not selfishly ruin the entire show. 
    While I understand this point, and I want to find a solution to it....if you were in...say....Row 15, and the 14 rows in front of you were all standing....thats a lot of people to tell to sit down so you can see. 
    I know. It's a tough situation for everyone involved. Not sure what the Home Shows are going to bring for me because I wasn't able to get ADA from 10c, only reserved. Hoping to get assistance from an usher for those shows. And thanks for your understanding/empathy in the situation and knowing that it's not just a selfish request. 

    I hope you enjoy the shows!!!
    Thanks, love. I'm really excited! 
    Forever feeling the sting of Raleigh 2016
  • ZodZod Posts: 9,941
    edited July 2018
    I've always live on the assumption that people will stand at a concert.   It's sitting that's the abnormality.  Maybe it's because I'm spoiled and used to being on the floor for most show.   You always have to stand on the floor :)   

    I remember being in the seats for a Def Leppard show and we were rocking out and the people behind us asked us to sit down. It was a total buzz kill :(

    edit:  I did let the sitting thing slide for McCartney due to the age of the crowd.   At Elton John last year my back was really killing me so I sat down for one song.    I felt dirty.... lol.
    Post edited by Zod on
  • Vedd HeddVedd Hedd Posts: 4,329
    ZeldaZonk said:
    Vedd Hedd said:
    ZeldaZonk said:
    PJWGIII said:

    ZeldaZonk said:
    Speaking as someone who usually sits the majority of any show, not all of us are able to physically endure standing for three or more hours. I go to multiple shows a month, but I couldn't do it if I had to stand. I shouldn't be expected to "go watch a f*ucking opera" or "stay home and watch on tv" or "go home and watch on youtube". That's pretty rude. I'd love to be able to hang out in GA like most of us would prefer, but it's not in the cards. Yet I don't want to miss out on an amazing live performance and shouldn't be expected to, so the seats are my option. And I'm definitely one of those who dances in the seats, so don't think I'm not having a blast just because I'm not standing. It's just not ideal to be trying to see the show when all you can see are the people's backs and butts in front of you. Watching it on the jumbo screens is NOT the same, but sometimes that's the only way to see. 

    And for those who think sitting during a concert is lame, I was at a rock show in Seattle two months ago. It was front row of the balcony, and I had two members of PJ sitting in the same row as me. One was directly next to me on my right, the other was a few seats down on my left side. Do you think either of them stood? NOPE! And out of respect for the guys, that's all I'm going to say about that evening.
    This is completely a valid point of view, but you wouldn't have the expectation that people will sit down, correct?
    Probably not the expectation (depending on the show), but the hope that people around me would be considerate and not selfishly ruin the entire show. 
    While I understand this point, and I want to find a solution to it....if you were in...say....Row 15, and the 14 rows in front of you were all standing....thats a lot of people to tell to sit down so you can see. 
    I know. It's a tough situation for everyone involved. Not sure what the Home Shows are going to bring for me because I wasn't able to get ADA from 10c, only reserved. Hoping to get assistance from an usher for those shows. And thanks for your understanding/empathy in the situation and knowing that it's not just a selfish request. 
    Understood. And yeah, double check with the attendants, and if one says no, try another. Im sure they have something available.
    Near to death.
    Here to die.
    Scared alive.
  • ruthlessgringoruthlessgringo South Carolina Posts: 60
    Hi! said: ok
    I'm making a tshirt. Nothing on front, but on the back in big bold letters:

    I'M NOT SITTING
    I ll buy it!
  • JBob87JBob87 Posts: 427
    A rock concert, especially a PJ concert is a communal experience. The band feeds off the crowd's energy and vice versa. Standing and movement is a big part of that. Even in the rafters of MSG everyone is standing the whole night..wouldn't have it any other way. 

    The ONLY time I sit at a show is if it is an intimate theater type performance...like the Neil Young solo tour. That is a totally different animal. 
  • rummyrummy British Columbia, Canada Posts: 4,345
    I always get reserved seating when I see Pearl Jam.
    I NEVER sit when I see Pearl Jam.
  • kaseylilykaseylily Michigan, USA Posts: 259
    edited July 2018
    This thread is very interesting to me. I'm a pretty short/small person and I would absolutely love to be able to go for GA tickets. But besides being small, I physically can't stand for 3 hours straight. I have a back condition and I just can't do it no matter how hard I try.  There's s lot of chair dancing going on and if I'm able to enjoy the show without being in pain, that's all that matters to me. That being said, I would never dream of asking someone to sit down! Pretty rude in my opinion actually. I'll never get a pick or a tambourine or have Ed comment on my shirt, but I will always have an awesome time. Even if I am stuck in my seat!
    Post edited by kaseylily on
  • MR242791MR242791 Brooklyn NY Posts: 669
    edited July 2018

    it's no fun sitting during a rock concert. 
    38 concerts and counting
    "I know I was born and I know that I'll die, the in between is mine"
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