Surface Knowledge

mattsl1983 · February 2018

Is google and the fact that you can did any information possible to support what you think is right making the world more decisive?

I had an interesting discussion tonight with a couple of friends and the subject of surface knowledge came up. Now it seems everyone is an expert on everything. They have read one article and are now an expert.

I guess going back to my college days and actually learning how to research and fact check are days of the past. We would get assigned a subject and a side and you had to make sure your facts were right. Today it seems those are practices of the past.

I guess my question, especially now in the world we live in, do you think this surface knowledge has contributed to where American culture is now, the divide and none budging sides? The debates here on this forum that jump from random article to personal beliefs to an article that supports those beliefs? It seems everyone is an expert and the art of actual debate is gone. Sidestep something you don’t want to answer, sidestep something you can’t answer, shift to a point you want to make.

Anyways, thoughts, opinions? I think it would be a great thesis for a grad student.

brianlux · February 2018

That really would make a great thesis subject!

"surface knowledge" I like that wording. That's exactly what much of it is- surface knowledge.

I think you're right on this, matts. It's easy to get sucked in by some of the stuff that's out there (and there's a lot of stuff out there). I'm guessing most of us here have formed at least a bit of a knee jerk reaction or opinion to something we've read on the internet. Have I ever done that? Guilty!

Part of the problem is (and I think this may have been studied and shown to be likely) is that people's attention spans are being reduced by using and relying on electronic media as much and as often as we do.

That where I think good books are useful. It takes more time and the commitment of thinking energy to read a well written, well researched book about a subject.

But what books? That leads to the usefulness of having a reasonably good sense of the author's legitimacy, intent, biases, sense of humor, humanity, etc. In other words, is this person's work worthy of my time? Am I just being spoon fed information or am I being challenged at least a little to develop my own thoughts and conclusions? The ones who really give you that opportunity for learning or growing or laughing will pass the test of time and scrutiny.

It really makes sense to try to find sources of information or inspiration or even just enjoyment that come from honest efforts that are worthy of your time. Edward Abbey, for example, often said of his own writing that if, nothing else, it was "honest" (and it was!). And he expected you would probably disagree with some of what he said. Wendell Berry is another one. Berry is as humble, knowledgeable, wise, and sincere as anyone I've ever read. And of course, Kurt Vonnegut Jr. who also happened to like "farting around".

Great thread idea, matts!

Halifax2TheMax · February 2018

mattsl1983 said:

Is google and the fact that you can did any information possible to support what you think is right making the world more decisive?

I had an interesting discussion tonight with a couple of friends and the subject of surface knowledge came up. Now it seems everyone is an expert on everything. They have read one article and are now an expert.

I guess going back to my college days and actually learning how to research and fact check are days of the past. We would get assigned a subject and a side and you had to make sure your facts were right. Today it seems those are practices of the past.

I guess my question, especially now in the world we live in, do you think this surface knowledge has contributed to where American culture is now, the divide and none budging sides? The debates here on this forum that jump from random article to personal beliefs to an article that supports those beliefs? It seems everyone is an expert and the art of actual debate is gone. Sidestep something you don’t want to answer, sidestep something you can’t answer, shift to a point you want to make.

Anyways, thoughts, opinions? I think it would be a great thesis for a grad student.

“Everyone is an expert on everything.” Got a link to that “fact?” Because of Google?

mattsl1983 · February 2018

Halifax2TheMax said:

mattsl1983 said:

Is google and the fact that you can did any information possible to support what you think is right making the world more decisive?

I had an interesting discussion tonight with a couple of friends and the subject of surface knowledge came up. Now it seems everyone is an expert on everything. They have read one article and are now an expert.

I guess going back to my college days and actually learning how to research and fact check are days of the past. We would get assigned a subject and a side and you had to make sure your facts were right. Today it seems those are practices of the past.

I guess my question, especially now in the world we live in, do you think this surface knowledge has contributed to where American culture is now, the divide and none budging sides? The debates here on this forum that jump from random article to personal beliefs to an article that supports those beliefs? It seems everyone is an expert and the art of actual debate is gone. Sidestep something you don’t want to answer, sidestep something you can’t answer, shift to a point you want to make.

Anyways, thoughts, opinions? I think it would be a great thesis for a grad student.

“Everyone is an expert on everything.” Got a link to that “fact?” Because of Google?

Go troll another post bro. You are repetitive and tiring. Again you offer nothing but wanting to argue.

Halifax2TheMax · February 2018

mattsl1983 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mattsl1983 said:

Is google and the fact that you can did any information possible to support what you think is right making the world more decisive?

I had an interesting discussion tonight with a couple of friends and the subject of surface knowledge came up. Now it seems everyone is an expert on everything. They have read one article and are now an expert.

I guess going back to my college days and actually learning how to research and fact check are days of the past. We would get assigned a subject and a side and you had to make sure your facts were right. Today it seems those are practices of the past.

I guess my question, especially now in the world we live in, do you think this surface knowledge has contributed to where American culture is now, the divide and none budging sides? The debates here on this forum that jump from random article to personal beliefs to an article that supports those beliefs? It seems everyone is an expert and the art of actual debate is gone. Sidestep something you don’t want to answer, sidestep something you can’t answer, shift to a point you want to make.

Anyways, thoughts, opinions? I think it would be a great thesis for a grad student.

“Everyone is an expert on everything.” Got a link to that “fact?” Because of Google?

Go troll another post bro. You are repetitive and tiring. Again you offer nothing but wanting to argue.

Try to “prove your point,” yo.

mattsl1983 · February 2018

brianlux said:

That really would make a great thesis subject!

"surface knowledge" I like that wording. That's exactly what much of it is- surface knowledge.

I think you're right on this, matts. It's easy to get sucked in by some of the stuff that's out there (and there's a lot of stuff out there). I'm guessing most of us here have formed at least a bit of a knee jerk reaction or opinion to something we've read on the internet. Have I ever done that? Guilty!

Part of the problem is (and I think this may have been studied and shown to be likely) is that people's attention spans are being reduced by using and relying on electronic media as much and as often as we do.

That where I think good books are useful. It takes more time and the commitment of thinking energy to read a well written, well researched book about a subject.

But what books? That leads to the usefulness of having a reasonably good sense of the author's legitimacy, intent, biases, sense of humor, humanity, etc. In other words, is this person's work worthy of my time? Am I just being spoon fed information or am I being challenged at least a little to develop my own thoughts and conclusions? The ones who really give you that opportunity for learning or growing or laughing will pass the test of time and scrutiny.

It really makes sense to try to find sources of information or inspiration or even just enjoyment that come from honest efforts that are worthy of your time. Edward Abbey, for example, often said of his own writing that if, nothing else, it was "honest" (and it was!). And he expected you would probably disagree with some of what he said. Wendell Berry is another one. Berry is as humble, knowledgeable, wise, and sincere as anyone I've ever read. And of course, Kurt Vonnegut Jr. who also happened to like "farting around".

Great thread idea, matts!

You make great great points that didn’t even come up earlier when we were talking about it.

mattsl1983 · February 2018

Halifax2TheMax said:

mattsl1983 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mattsl1983 said:

Is google and the fact that you can did any information possible to support what you think is right making the world more decisive?

I had an interesting discussion tonight with a couple of friends and the subject of surface knowledge came up. Now it seems everyone is an expert on everything. They have read one article and are now an expert.

I guess going back to my college days and actually learning how to research and fact check are days of the past. We would get assigned a subject and a side and you had to make sure your facts were right. Today it seems those are practices of the past.

I guess my question, especially now in the world we live in, do you think this surface knowledge has contributed to where American culture is now, the divide and none budging sides? The debates here on this forum that jump from random article to personal beliefs to an article that supports those beliefs? It seems everyone is an expert and the art of actual debate is gone. Sidestep something you don’t want to answer, sidestep something you can’t answer, shift to a point you want to make.

Anyways, thoughts, opinions? I think it would be a great thesis for a grad student.

“Everyone is an expert on everything.” Got a link to that “fact?” Because of Google?

Go troll another post bro. You are repetitive and tiring. Again you offer nothing but wanting to argue.

Try to “prove your point,” yo.

You really don’t stop do you? This post is made from social observations. As much as you would like me to debat that with you, it’s a social observation that I’ve noticed and apparently others have. Again if you want to troll, go find another thread. If you want to offer some insight as to why you don’t think it’s true, then share your insight. Otherwise your comments at least from me will be ignored, such as I’ve ignored them on other threads.

Halifax2TheMax · February 2018

mattsl1983 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mattsl1983 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mattsl1983 said:

Is google and the fact that you can did any information possible to support what you think is right making the world more decisive?

I had an interesting discussion tonight with a couple of friends and the subject of surface knowledge came up. Now it seems everyone is an expert on everything. They have read one article and are now an expert.

I guess going back to my college days and actually learning how to research and fact check are days of the past. We would get assigned a subject and a side and you had to make sure your facts were right. Today it seems those are practices of the past.

I guess my question, especially now in the world we live in, do you think this surface knowledge has contributed to where American culture is now, the divide and none budging sides? The debates here on this forum that jump from random article to personal beliefs to an article that supports those beliefs? It seems everyone is an expert and the art of actual debate is gone. Sidestep something you don’t want to answer, sidestep something you can’t answer, shift to a point you want to make.

Anyways, thoughts, opinions? I think it would be a great thesis for a grad student.

“Everyone is an expert on everything.” Got a link to that “fact?” Because of Google?

Go troll another post bro. You are repetitive and tiring. Again you offer nothing but wanting to argue.

Try to “prove your point,” yo.

You really don’t stop do you? This post is made from social observations. As much as you would like me to debat that with you, it’s a social observation that I’ve noticed and apparently others have. Again if you want to troll, go find another thread. If you want to offer some insight as to why you don’t think it’s true, then share your insight. Otherwise your comments at least from me will be ignored, such as I’ve ignored them on other threads.

Okay then, that’s a start. If I had said all gun owners are murderers you’d jump up my ass. So, you claiming everyone is dumbed down because of the Internet, and as such, has lead to political polarization to a degree that we can’t find common ground? I call bullshit. Certainly there’s a degree of stupidity out there but in general, there has never been an age where so much information has been available to the greatest percentage of our worlds population and as such, the “white” world order is being upended. I haven’t been dumbed down because of misinformation on the interwebs because I’m capable of critical thought. And most of the world is as well except for Team Trump Treason’s MAGA.

if you don’t want to debate, get off the debate page.

mattsl1983 · February 2018

Halifax2TheMax said:

mattsl1983 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mattsl1983 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mattsl1983 said:

Is google and the fact that you can did any information possible to support what you think is right making the world more decisive?

I had an interesting discussion tonight with a couple of friends and the subject of surface knowledge came up. Now it seems everyone is an expert on everything. They have read one article and are now an expert.

I guess going back to my college days and actually learning how to research and fact check are days of the past. We would get assigned a subject and a side and you had to make sure your facts were right. Today it seems those are practices of the past.

I guess my question, especially now in the world we live in, do you think this surface knowledge has contributed to where American culture is now, the divide and none budging sides? The debates here on this forum that jump from random article to personal beliefs to an article that supports those beliefs? It seems everyone is an expert and the art of actual debate is gone. Sidestep something you don’t want to answer, sidestep something you can’t answer, shift to a point you want to make.

Anyways, thoughts, opinions? I think it would be a great thesis for a grad student.

“Everyone is an expert on everything.” Got a link to that “fact?” Because of Google?

Go troll another post bro. You are repetitive and tiring. Again you offer nothing but wanting to argue.

Try to “prove your point,” yo.

You really don’t stop do you? This post is made from social observations. As much as you would like me to debat that with you, it’s a social observation that I’ve noticed and apparently others have. Again if you want to troll, go find another thread. If you want to offer some insight as to why you don’t think it’s true, then share your insight. Otherwise your comments at least from me will be ignored, such as I’ve ignored them on other threads.

Okay then, that’s a start. If I had said all gun owners are murderers you’d jump up my ass. So, you claiming everyone is dumbed down because of the Internet, and as such, has lead to political polarization to a degree that we can’t find common ground? I call bullshit. Certainly there’s a degree of stupidity out there but in general, there has never been an age where so much information has been available to the greatest percentage of our worlds population and as such, the “white” world order is being upended. I haven’t been dumbed down because of misinformation on the interwebs because I’m capable of critical thought. And most of the world is as well except for Team Trump Treason’s MAGA.

if you don’t want to debate, get off the debate page.

I never jumped your ass on the gun debate, I simply called you out on childish responses and did not engage with you anymore, because just like here; you are coming across as childish. Not sure where the Trump or MAGA is coming from. But if that’s your hang up, good for you. Atleast we all now know where you are coming from and your inability to talk with the grown ups. I guess ignoring you really ate at you and got under your skin. I did not know I was living rent free in your mind. But it’s going to happen again here.

Halifax2TheMax · February 2018

mattsl1983 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mattsl1983 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mattsl1983 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mattsl1983 said:

Is google and the fact that you can did any information possible to support what you think is right making the world more decisive?

I had an interesting discussion tonight with a couple of friends and the subject of surface knowledge came up. Now it seems everyone is an expert on everything. They have read one article and are now an expert.

I guess going back to my college days and actually learning how to research and fact check are days of the past. We would get assigned a subject and a side and you had to make sure your facts were right. Today it seems those are practices of the past.

I guess my question, especially now in the world we live in, do you think this surface knowledge has contributed to where American culture is now, the divide and none budging sides? The debates here on this forum that jump from random article to personal beliefs to an article that supports those beliefs? It seems everyone is an expert and the art of actual debate is gone. Sidestep something you don’t want to answer, sidestep something you can’t answer, shift to a point you want to make.

Anyways, thoughts, opinions? I think it would be a great thesis for a grad student.

“Everyone is an expert on everything.” Got a link to that “fact?” Because of Google?

Go troll another post bro. You are repetitive and tiring. Again you offer nothing but wanting to argue.

Try to “prove your point,” yo.

You really don’t stop do you? This post is made from social observations. As much as you would like me to debat that with you, it’s a social observation that I’ve noticed and apparently others have. Again if you want to troll, go find another thread. If you want to offer some insight as to why you don’t think it’s true, then share your insight. Otherwise your comments at least from me will be ignored, such as I’ve ignored them on other threads.

Okay then, that’s a start. If I had said all gun owners are murderers you’d jump up my ass. So, you claiming everyone is dumbed down because of the Internet, and as such, has lead to political polarization to a degree that we can’t find common ground? I call bullshit. Certainly there’s a degree of stupidity out there but in general, there has never been an age where so much information has been available to the greatest percentage of our worlds population and as such, the “white” world order is being upended. I haven’t been dumbed down because of misinformation on the interwebs because I’m capable of critical thought. And most of the world is as well except for Team Trump Treason’s MAGA.

if you don’t want to debate, get off the debate page.

I never jumped your ass on the gun debate, I simply called you out on childish responses and did not engage with you anymore, because just like here; you are coming across as childish. Not sure where the Trump or MAGA is coming from. But if that’s your hang up, good for you. Atleast we all now know where you are coming from and your inability to talk with the grown ups. I guess ignoring you really ate at you and got under your skin. I did not know I was living rent free in your mind. But it’s going to happen again here.

Would you like to debate the topic you posted or revisit the past? Wow wow wow hold on a minute? Did you insult me? Omg! Your reading comprehension is off, go back, read. I made an anology. As in, if I made a blanket statement about gun owners as you did about the dumbed down average information consumer, you’d give me or anyone else who claimed the same, shit.

so, do you want to grow up and debate your premise?

benjs · February 2018

Matt,

I think I agree with you.

First, look at the prevalence of surface knowledge articles’ popularity: corporations pay top dollar to have a spot on peoples’ Facebook walls, and those prices hold, so it can be assumed there are indications that these spots have impact on readers’ opinions.

Next, look at the logic void in high-visibility debates. Logical fallacies galore, sound byte statistics dropped to aggrandize or diminish situation significance through shock in eight seconds or less, are signs that the citizenry is highly responsive to low- or no-logic discussions.

While I don’t know if the polarization of political opinions is uniquely or primarily caused by this phenomenon, it’d be hard to argue this doesn’t have an impact for this simple reason: companies and politicians who wish to change political opinions to create polarization are delivering surface knowledge on an increasing (not flat or downward) basis and seeing high-value returns on their investments.

Halifax2TheMax · February 2018

benjs said:

Matt,

I think I agree with you.

First, look at the prevalence of surface knowledge articles’ popularity: corporations pay top dollar to have a spot on peoples’ Facebook walls, and those prices hold, so it can be assumed there are indications that these spots have impact on readers’ opinions.

Next, look at the logic void in high-visibility debates. Logical fallacies galore, sound byte statistics dropped to aggrandize or diminish situation significance through shock in eight seconds or less, are signs that the citizenry is highly responsive to low- or no-logic discussions.

While I don’t know if the polarization of political opinions is uniquely or primarily caused by this phenomenon, it’d be hard to argue this doesn’t have an impact for this simple reason: companies and politicians who wish to change political opinions to create polarization are delivering surface knowledge on an increasing (not flat or downward) basis and seeing high-value returns on their investments.

Lemme see the lemmings, because they all fall off the cliff. Basically? Your agreeing with Team Mueller. I look forward to y’all voting for conviction after impeachment.

benjs · February 2018

Halifax2TheMax said:

benjs said:

Matt,

I think I agree with you.

First, look at the prevalence of surface knowledge articles’ popularity: corporations pay top dollar to have a spot on peoples’ Facebook walls, and those prices hold, so it can be assumed there are indications that these spots have impact on readers’ opinions.

Next, look at the logic void in high-visibility debates. Logical fallacies galore, sound byte statistics dropped to aggrandize or diminish situation significance through shock in eight seconds or less, are signs that the citizenry is highly responsive to low- or no-logic discussions.

While I don’t know if the polarization of political opinions is uniquely or primarily caused by this phenomenon, it’d be hard to argue this doesn’t have an impact for this simple reason: companies and politicians who wish to change political opinions to create polarization are delivering surface knowledge on an increasing (not flat or downward) basis and seeing high-value returns on their investments.

Lemme see the lemmings, because they all fall off the cliff. Basically? Your agreeing with Team Mueller. I look forward to y’all voting for conviction after impeachment.

Do what you want with others’ words, but don’t distort mine. I didn’t mention one political party or corporation or insinuate my positions in any way, shape, or form; so don’t tell me where my allegiances reside. If you feel I do that to you - call me out.

Also, I thought you requested logic to validate Matt’s argument to debate. Have I lacked logic? Why don’t you debate that instead of calling me a lemming?

mfc2006 · February 2018

I try to see all sides. That being said, it would be nice to just see the surface every now and again, but that can’t (and won’t) happen. Thanks, fuckface....I mean President fuckface.

Halifax2TheMax · February 2018

benjs said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

benjs said:

Matt,

I think I agree with you.

First, look at the prevalence of surface knowledge articles’ popularity: corporations pay top dollar to have a spot on peoples’ Facebook walls, and those prices hold, so it can be assumed there are indications that these spots have impact on readers’ opinions.

Next, look at the logic void in high-visibility debates. Logical fallacies galore, sound byte statistics dropped to aggrandize or diminish situation significance through shock in eight seconds or less, are signs that the citizenry is highly responsive to low- or no-logic discussions.

While I don’t know if the polarization of political opinions is uniquely or primarily caused by this phenomenon, it’d be hard to argue this doesn’t have an impact for this simple reason: companies and politicians who wish to change political opinions to create polarization are delivering surface knowledge on an increasing (not flat or downward) basis and seeing high-value returns on their investments.

Lemme see the lemmings, because they all fall off the cliff. Basically? Your agreeing with Team Mueller. I look forward to y’all voting for conviction after impeachment.

Do what you want with others’ words, but don’t distort mine. I didn’t mention one political party or corporation or insinuate my positions in any way, shape, or form; so don’t tell me where my allegiances reside. If you feel I do that to you - call me out.

Also, I thought you requested logic to validate Matt’s argument to debate. Have I lacked logic? Why don’t you debate that instead of calling me a lemming?

Feeling a little sensitive there Benjs? How did I distortbyour words? I didn’t manipulate them or alter them. I interpreted them in my way. As such, social media, with its speed, ability, content, nefariousness even, results in the masses being duped? About right? Did I call you a lemming?

But it that’s what you want to blame all the “anxiety “on? Everyone is “too dumb “ sucked in and tuned out? Really? Only in America.

benjs · February 2018

Halifax2TheMax said:

benjs said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

benjs said:

Matt,

I think I agree with you.

First, look at the prevalence of surface knowledge articles’ popularity: corporations pay top dollar to have a spot on peoples’ Facebook walls, and those prices hold, so it can be assumed there are indications that these spots have impact on readers’ opinions.

Next, look at the logic void in high-visibility debates. Logical fallacies galore, sound byte statistics dropped to aggrandize or diminish situation significance through shock in eight seconds or less, are signs that the citizenry is highly responsive to low- or no-logic discussions.

While I don’t know if the polarization of political opinions is uniquely or primarily caused by this phenomenon, it’d be hard to argue this doesn’t have an impact for this simple reason: companies and politicians who wish to change political opinions to create polarization are delivering surface knowledge on an increasing (not flat or downward) basis and seeing high-value returns on their investments.

Lemme see the lemmings, because they all fall off the cliff. Basically? Your agreeing with Team Mueller. I look forward to y’all voting for conviction after impeachment.

Do what you want with others’ words, but don’t distort mine. I didn’t mention one political party or corporation or insinuate my positions in any way, shape, or form; so don’t tell me where my allegiances reside. If you feel I do that to you - call me out.

Also, I thought you requested logic to validate Matt’s argument to debate. Have I lacked logic? Why don’t you debate that instead of calling me a lemming?

Feeling a little sensitive there Benjs? How did I distortbyour words? I didn’t manipulate them or alter them. I interpreted them in my way. As such, social media, with its speed, ability, content, nefariousness even, results in the masses being duped? About right? Did I call you a lemming?

But it that’s what you want to blame all the “anxiety “on? Everyone is “too dumb “ sucked in and tuned out? Really? Only in America.

Yes, I’m sensitive about honest representation. Is honesty something you value, or are you regularly comfortable filling in blanks on others’ behalves as you’ve shown here?

First - blame “all” of something on this topic? Don’t you read? I literally said that this is not uniquely and probably not primarily the cause of this new reality.

Next, your mention of my agreement with Team Mueller is certainly misrepresentation of my position, as I mentioned no political actors whatsoever. As I said in the first of two paragraphs that you responded to. To reiterate - don’t you read?

Halifax2TheMax · February 2018

benjs said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

benjs said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

benjs said:

Matt,

I think I agree with you.

First, look at the prevalence of surface knowledge articles’ popularity: corporations pay top dollar to have a spot on peoples’ Facebook walls, and those prices hold, so it can be assumed there are indications that these spots have impact on readers’ opinions.

Next, look at the logic void in high-visibility debates. Logical fallacies galore, sound byte statistics dropped to aggrandize or diminish situation significance through shock in eight seconds or less, are signs that the citizenry is highly responsive to low- or no-logic discussions.

While I don’t know if the polarization of political opinions is uniquely or primarily caused by this phenomenon, it’d be hard to argue this doesn’t have an impact for this simple reason: companies and politicians who wish to change political opinions to create polarization are delivering surface knowledge on an increasing (not flat or downward) basis and seeing high-value returns on their investments.

Lemme see the lemmings, because they all fall off the cliff. Basically? Your agreeing with Team Mueller. I look forward to y’all voting for conviction after impeachment.

Do what you want with others’ words, but don’t distort mine. I didn’t mention one political party or corporation or insinuate my positions in any way, shape, or form; so don’t tell me where my allegiances reside. If you feel I do that to you - call me out.

Also, I thought you requested logic to validate Matt’s argument to debate. Have I lacked logic? Why don’t you debate that instead of calling me a lemming?

Feeling a little sensitive there Benjs? How did I distortbyour words? I didn’t manipulate them or alter them. I interpreted them in my way. As such, social media, with its speed, ability, content, nefariousness even, results in the masses being duped? About right? Did I call you a lemming?

But it that’s what you want to blame all the “anxiety “on? Everyone is “too dumb “ sucked in and tuned out? Really? Only in America.

Yes, I’m sensitive about honest representation. Is honesty something you value, or are you regularly comfortable filling in blanks on others’ behalves as you’ve shown here?

First - blame “all” of something on this topic? Don’t you read? I literally said that this is not uniquely and probably not primarily the cause of this new reality.

Next, your mention of my agreement with Team Mueller is certainly misrepresentation of my position, as I mentioned no political actors whatsoever. As I said in the first of two paragraphs that you responded to. To reiterate - don’t you read?

First, to your sensitivity (my punctuation might help, but maybe not): Honesty is the cornerstone of democracy and debate, do you question my sincerity? I’ve been accused of blanket statements and vilified for such. I’ve always been honest in my approach and have never been sensitive to criticism. Other than to see and realize the apologists for our current state look every where else but where it resides. I find that amusing.

Halifax2TheMax · February 2018

benjs said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

benjs said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

benjs said:

Matt,

I think I agree with you.

First, look at the prevalence of surface knowledge articles’ popularity: corporations pay top dollar to have a spot on peoples’ Facebook walls, and those prices hold, so it can be assumed there are indications that these spots have impact on readers’ opinions.

Next, look at the logic void in high-visibility debates. Logical fallacies galore, sound byte statistics dropped to aggrandize or diminish situation significance through shock in eight seconds or less, are signs that the citizenry is highly responsive to low- or no-logic discussions.

While I don’t know if the polarization of political opinions is uniquely or primarily caused by this phenomenon, it’d be hard to argue this doesn’t have an impact for this simple reason: companies and politicians who wish to change political opinions to create polarization are delivering surface knowledge on an increasing (not flat or downward) basis and seeing high-value returns on their investments.

Lemme see the lemmings, because they all fall off the cliff. Basically? Your agreeing with Team Mueller. I look forward to y’all voting for conviction after impeachment.

Do what you want with others’ words, but don’t distort mine. I didn’t mention one political party or corporation or insinuate my positions in any way, shape, or form; so don’t tell me where my allegiances reside. If you feel I do that to you - call me out.

Also, I thought you requested logic to validate Matt’s argument to debate. Have I lacked logic? Why don’t you debate that instead of calling me a lemming?

Feeling a little sensitive there Benjs? How did I distortbyour words? I didn’t manipulate them or alter them. I interpreted them in my way. As such, social media, with its speed, ability, content, nefariousness even, results in the masses being duped? About right? Did I call you a lemming?

But it that’s what you want to blame all the “anxiety “on? Everyone is “too dumb “ sucked in and tuned out? Really? Only in America.

Yes, I’m sensitive about honest representation. Is honesty something you value, or are you regularly comfortable filling in blanks on others’ behalves as you’ve shown here?

First - blame “all” of something on this topic? Don’t you read? I literally said that this is not uniquely and probably not primarily the cause of this new reality.

Next, your mention of my agreement with Team Mueller is certainly misrepresentation of my position, as I mentioned no political actors whatsoever. As I said in the first of two paragraphs that you responded to. To reiterate - don’t you read?

But as you questioned it (second paragraph) you make it sound as if there’s no thought, due to all the chatter (social media), and yet, if I recall, you, and others, were dismissive of the impact of chatter on elections? And now? Suddenly it’s an “influence?” Really?

brianlux · February 2018

This thread went from a great start to a disaster. What the fuck is going on here?

Halifax2TheMax · February 2018

Oh come on benjs, fuck, you can’t take it personal and posit theories and then deny there’s some alignment or not.

So, all this web based misunderstanding by the masses or manipulation for profit has resulted in Team trump Treason? Or, we’re all lemmings?

mattsl1983 · February 2018

brianlux said:

This thread went from a great start to a disaster. What the fuck is going on here?

I agree, guess I should have pointed out it’s not political? I don’t know... Sadly I think this is the world we live in now.

benjs · February 2018

Halifax - I apologize but it’s been a sleepless night for me (4am here) but I just wanted you to know that I’ll be back here tomorrow to give you the responses I owe you. If I seem frustrated, it’s because I am, but if I try to articulate it now it’s just not going to be coherent. Tomorrow at least it might be, but I’ll let you judge that when the time comes!

One thing I will say is I regret attacking your integrity, and I am very sorry. I know that we both speak from places of passion and authenticity, and I should know better than to question that from you, given your history on here. We may disagree about appropriate tone/format/style/content of debate, but that comment simply wasn’t fair of me.

brianlux · February 2018

Shake hands fellas. Good night!

Thirty Bills Unpaid · February 2018

Honestly...

I feel access to information is very valuable- critical moving forward.

'Everyone' never did their due diligence researching before the internet era. Most people never went to university and even if they did... the books they studied from were in many cases outdated and not as relevant as they needed to be. Given such... most people were not as aware as they are now. It was not very long ago when society used to take everything spewed to them as gospel and never challenged much of anything.

One doesn't have to go to university to be a scholar or expert. I look at a guy around here @Drowned Out . He has stated many times his education has been his experience in life and his natural curiosity leading him to research his interests. He's as smart as anyone around here and far more clever than many of those formally educated with the old method of acquiring knowledge.

With that said... many people fail to establish their understanding of topics through balanced and comprehensive reading and analysis. If one relies strictly on 'a' source... their opinion is the same as 'that' source. As annoying as one might get speaking to someone misinformed... it's better than speaking to someone completely uninformed- especially if that person is willing to listen to alternative perspectives and adapt their way of thinking. People making any kind of effort to improve their levels of understanding is a good thing.

I think this forum is a great place to stay on top of things. It has made me a better person. For example, I love reading BS and Halifax debate on the Trump thread. They go at each other with passion and from informed perspectives. I typically (well... almost always for that matter) side with Halifax, but I respect BS's position and how he presents it. I always feel more 'up to speed' after digesting their exchanges.

brianlux · February 2018

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Honestly...

I feel access to information is very valuable- critical moving forward.

'Everyone' never did their due diligence researching before the internet era. Most people never went to university and even if they did... the books they studied from were in many cases outdated and not as relevant as they needed to be. Given such... most people were not as aware as they are now. It was not very long ago when society used to take everything spewed to them as gospel and never challenged much of anything.

One doesn't have to go to university to be a scholar or expert. I look at a guy around here @Drowned Out . He has stated many times his education has been his experience in life and his natural curiosity leading him to research his interests. He's as smart as anyone around here and far more clever than many of those formally educated with the old method of acquiring knowledge.

With that said... many people fail to establish their understanding of topics through balanced and comprehensive reading and analysis. If one relies strictly on 'a' source... their opinion is the same as 'that' source. As annoying as one might get speaking to someone misinformed... it's better than speaking to someone completely uninformed- especially if that person is willing to listen to alternative perspectives and adapt their way of thinking. People making any kind of effort to improve their levels of understanding is a good thing.

I think this forum is a great place to stay on top of things. It has made me a better person. For example, I love reading BS and Halifax debate on the Trump thread. They go at each other with passion and from informed perspectives. I typically (well... almost always for that matter) side with Halifax, but I respect BS's position and how he presents it. I always feel more 'up to speed' after digesting their exchanges.

Good points here, Thirty. I've learned a lot here as well.

But it's a mixed bag for me. As much I as have learned a lot here and as much as I respect all who participate (except from trolls, but that's OK because they either go away eventually or get banned) I also find myself feeling frustrated at time when when it gets ugly. This thread got really ugly really fast from some nasty comments from people I generally highly regard. And yes, in case anyone thinks I'm being self-righteous, I know I have been a prick at times here as well. I'm sorry for those times.

Now, I'll defend the value of books briefly again by asserting that good books are helpful in developing the ability to think critically and know how to assess life, the universe and everything better than we did before. Those authors I mentioned never become outdated. Sew Crates, Home Err, Airy Stotle and the like never went out of date either.

I like what you said about Drowned Out (one of the coolest guys I ever met and did not even realize who he was!) and how he mentions his education being life experience. I don't think any internet search or book in the world can top that. In one of his books, Edward Abbey talks about the same thing. He encourages the read to get out and look around and learn. Same with Henry Rollins who goes to the ends of the earth to experience and learn about life, the universe and everything. And I encourage everyone to do the same while you can. It gets hard to do later in life.

Thirty Bills Unpaid · February 2018

brianlux said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Honestly...

I feel access to information is very valuable- critical moving forward.

'Everyone' never did their due diligence researching before the internet era. Most people never went to university and even if they did... the books they studied from were in many cases outdated and not as relevant as they needed to be. Given such... most people were not as aware as they are now. It was not very long ago when society used to take everything spewed to them as gospel and never challenged much of anything.

One doesn't have to go to university to be a scholar or expert. I look at a guy around here @Drowned Out . He has stated many times his education has been his experience in life and his natural curiosity leading him to research his interests. He's as smart as anyone around here and far more clever than many of those formally educated with the old method of acquiring knowledge.

With that said... many people fail to establish their understanding of topics through balanced and comprehensive reading and analysis. If one relies strictly on 'a' source... their opinion is the same as 'that' source. As annoying as one might get speaking to someone misinformed... it's better than speaking to someone completely uninformed- especially if that person is willing to listen to alternative perspectives and adapt their way of thinking. People making any kind of effort to improve their levels of understanding is a good thing.

I think this forum is a great place to stay on top of things. It has made me a better person. For example, I love reading BS and Halifax debate on the Trump thread. They go at each other with passion and from informed perspectives. I typically (well... almost always for that matter) side with Halifax, but I respect BS's position and how he presents it. I always feel more 'up to speed' after digesting their exchanges.

Good points here, Thirty. I've learned a lot here as well.

But it's a mixed bag for me. As much I as have learned a lot here and as much as I respect all who participate (except from trolls, but that's OK because they either go away eventually or get banned) I also find myself feeling frustrated at time when when it gets ugly. This thread got really ugly really fast from some nasty comments from people I generally highly regard. And yes, in case anyone thinks I'm being self-righteous, I know I have been a prick at times here as well. I'm sorry for those times.

Now, I'll defend the value of books briefly again by asserting that good books are helpful in developing the ability to think critically and know how to assess life, the universe and everything better than we did before. Those authors I mentioned never become outdated. Sew Crates, Home Err, Airy Stotle and the like never went out of date either.

I like what you said about Drowned Out (one of the coolest guys I ever met and did not even realize who he was!) and how he mentions his education being life experience. I don't think any internet search or book in the world can top that. In one of his books, Edward Abbey talks about the same thing. He encourages the read to get out and look around and learn. Same with Henry Rollins who goes to the ends of the earth to experience and learn about life, the universe and everything. And I encourage everyone to do the same while you can. It gets hard to do later in life.

Don't get me wrong- I love books!

Our home is very literature rich and always has been. I'm drawn to used book stores and very rarely walk out without buying something- even if the collection waiting to be read at home is a little larger than it should be.

I made reference in the Movie Thread... have you read Into Thin Air? An unreal book.

brianlux · February 2018

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

brianlux said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Honestly...

I feel access to information is very valuable- critical moving forward.

'Everyone' never did their due diligence researching before the internet era. Most people never went to university and even if they did... the books they studied from were in many cases outdated and not as relevant as they needed to be. Given such... most people were not as aware as they are now. It was not very long ago when society used to take everything spewed to them as gospel and never challenged much of anything.

One doesn't have to go to university to be a scholar or expert. I look at a guy around here @Drowned Out . He has stated many times his education has been his experience in life and his natural curiosity leading him to research his interests. He's as smart as anyone around here and far more clever than many of those formally educated with the old method of acquiring knowledge.

With that said... many people fail to establish their understanding of topics through balanced and comprehensive reading and analysis. If one relies strictly on 'a' source... their opinion is the same as 'that' source. As annoying as one might get speaking to someone misinformed... it's better than speaking to someone completely uninformed- especially if that person is willing to listen to alternative perspectives and adapt their way of thinking. People making any kind of effort to improve their levels of understanding is a good thing.

I think this forum is a great place to stay on top of things. It has made me a better person. For example, I love reading BS and Halifax debate on the Trump thread. They go at each other with passion and from informed perspectives. I typically (well... almost always for that matter) side with Halifax, but I respect BS's position and how he presents it. I always feel more 'up to speed' after digesting their exchanges.

Good points here, Thirty. I've learned a lot here as well.

But it's a mixed bag for me. As much I as have learned a lot here and as much as I respect all who participate (except from trolls, but that's OK because they either go away eventually or get banned) I also find myself feeling frustrated at time when when it gets ugly. This thread got really ugly really fast from some nasty comments from people I generally highly regard. And yes, in case anyone thinks I'm being self-righteous, I know I have been a prick at times here as well. I'm sorry for those times.

Now, I'll defend the value of books briefly again by asserting that good books are helpful in developing the ability to think critically and know how to assess life, the universe and everything better than we did before. Those authors I mentioned never become outdated. Sew Crates, Home Err, Airy Stotle and the like never went out of date either.

I like what you said about Drowned Out (one of the coolest guys I ever met and did not even realize who he was!) and how he mentions his education being life experience. I don't think any internet search or book in the world can top that. In one of his books, Edward Abbey talks about the same thing. He encourages the read to get out and look around and learn. Same with Henry Rollins who goes to the ends of the earth to experience and learn about life, the universe and everything. And I encourage everyone to do the same while you can. It gets hard to do later in life.

Don't get me wrong- I love books!

Our home is very literature rich and always has been. I'm drawn to used book stores and very rarely walk out without buying something- even if the collection waiting to be read at home is a little larger than it should be.

I made reference in the Movie Thread... have you read Into Thin Air? An unreal book.

Into Thin Air is one of my wife's favorite books as well. After seeing Jon Krakauer in Meru my first thought was, "I've GOT to read Krakauer- how have I not read any of his books yet?! He says some things in Meru about life- it's difficulties, challenges, as well as how to make the most of life that are profound. The climbers make some observations that blew me away as well. The extras on the DVD are great also.

So yes, as soon as I finish Sherman Alexie's excellent autobiography Into Thin Air is up next for me. You say you read it 4 times? That say a lot. Looking forward to it!

Surface Knowledge

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