March For Our Lives - Parkland Students Demanding Action

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  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    edited June 2018
    PJPOWER said:
    rgambs said:
    PJPOWER said:
    rgambs said:
    unsung said:
    Common sense gun laws are pushed by people with no sense.  Most often they don't even know what they are speaking of.
    Thats true to an equal or lesser degree than the fast that common sense gun laws are opposed by people with no integrity, who use their superior firearm knowledge to straight up lie knowing they won't often be caught.
    Like when y'all claim an AR15 isn't a military rifle, knowing full well and failing to mention it was designed from the M16 military rifle.
    Or when y'all point out caliber and claim there's no difference in a hunting and assault rifle knowing full well and failing to mention muzzle velocity and the impact it has on lethality.
    Or like when y'all claim the tactical appointments don't make an assault rifle more deadly...until you need one to go boar hunting and suddenly those appointments and mods make all the difference in the world.

    I'll take ignorance over dishonesty.
    I’m a bit confused on what you mean in regards to muzzle velocities of hunting rifles vs “assault rifles”.  The muzzle velocity of the same caliber is the same in a hunting rifle as it is in any other rifle of the same caliber.  Many of the most used hunting rounds have a much higher muzzle than the most widely used ar-15 round (5.56 or .223).  But there are a wide variety of calibers used in the ar-15 platform these days...so again, what are you talking about?
    When politicians try pushing gun control bills, they are often dishonest about their ignorance.  Should I pull up the video of the CO lawmaker lying about the abilities of an AR-15 for the thousandth time?
    I misspoke, "hunting" is supposed to read "handgun".  Nice catch.
    Did you know that handgun calibers are also used in the ar-15 platform?  Also, there are some slow muzzle velocity rounds that can do WAY more damage than the fast ones depending on distance.  .458 SOCOM for example.
    Muddy the waters as much as you want, you only prove my point.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo Face Posts: 6,499
    edited June 2018
    rgambs said:
    PJPOWER said:
    rgambs said:
    PJPOWER said:
    rgambs said:
    unsung said:
    Common sense gun laws are pushed by people with no sense.  Most often they don't even know what they are speaking of.
    Thats true to an equal or lesser degree than the fast that common sense gun laws are opposed by people with no integrity, who use their superior firearm knowledge to straight up lie knowing they won't often be caught.
    Like when y'all claim an AR15 isn't a military rifle, knowing full well and failing to mention it was designed from the M16 military rifle.
    Or when y'all point out caliber and claim there's no difference in a hunting and assault rifle knowing full well and failing to mention muzzle velocity and the impact it has on lethality.
    Or like when y'all claim the tactical appointments don't make an assault rifle more deadly...until you need one to go boar hunting and suddenly those appointments and mods make all the difference in the world.

    I'll take ignorance over dishonesty.
    I’m a bit confused on what you mean in regards to muzzle velocities of hunting rifles vs “assault rifles”.  The muzzle velocity of the same caliber is the same in a hunting rifle as it is in any other rifle of the same caliber.  Many of the most used hunting rounds have a much higher muzzle than the most widely used ar-15 round (5.56 or .223).  But there are a wide variety of calibers used in the ar-15 platform these days...so again, what are you talking about?
    When politicians try pushing gun control bills, they are often dishonest about their ignorance.  Should I pull up the video of the CO lawmaker lying about the abilities of an AR-15 for the thousandth time?
    I misspoke, "hunting" is supposed to read "handgun".  Nice catch.
    Did you know that handgun calibers are also used in the ar-15 platform?  Also, there are some slow muzzle velocity rounds that can do WAY more damage than the fast ones depending on distance.  .458 SOCOM for example.
    Muddy the waters as much as you want, you only prove my point.
    The waters are as muddy as they can be and ignoring that is ignorant.  It is what will leave people with bald heads when no productive laws are passed...should be quite familiar with that.  It is why so many pocket pistols and deadlier bullets that create hydrostatic shock were created when Bill Clinton banned high capacity magazines last go around.  I think that the amped up training requirements, background checks, and stiffer legal ramifications for negligence are going to be the most productive changes.
    Post edited by PJPOWER on
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,808
    unsung said:
    Their first Amendment rights end where the rights of others suffer.

    Remember the whole can't yell fire in a theatre thing?
    so shouldn't that apply to 2A as well?
    Darwinspeed, all. 

    Cheers,

    HFD




  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo Face Posts: 6,499
    edited June 2018
    unsung said:
    Their first Amendment rights end where the rights of others suffer.

    Remember the whole can't yell fire in a theatre thing?
    so shouldn't that apply to 2A as well?
    They should, and they do.  People that exercise their  2nd Amendment rights neglectfully should be held accountable for doing so, same as with someone yelling “fire” in a movie theater.  You do not restrict everyone’s 1st Amendment rights or impose penalties on every citizen because someone yells “fire”, though, just on the individual themselves, right?
    Post edited by PJPOWER on
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,808
    PJPOWER said:
    unsung said:
    Their first Amendment rights end where the rights of others suffer.

    Remember the whole can't yell fire in a theatre thing?
    so shouldn't that apply to 2A as well?
    They should, and they do.  People that exercise their  2nd Amendment rights neglectfully should be held accountable for doing so.
    I believe I have seen unsung disagree with that. 
    Darwinspeed, all. 

    Cheers,

    HFD




  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo Face Posts: 6,499
    edited June 2018
    PJPOWER said:
    unsung said:
    Their first Amendment rights end where the rights of others suffer.

    Remember the whole can't yell fire in a theatre thing?
    so shouldn't that apply to 2A as well?
    They should, and they do.  People that exercise their  2nd Amendment rights neglectfully should be held accountable for doing so.
    I believe I have seen unsung disagree with that. 
    Interesting, I thought everyone was on board with negative actions resulting in negative consequences (civil and/or legal), but, if so, unsung would have to clarify on what he meant.
    Post edited by PJPOWER on
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    PJPOWER said:
    unsung said:
    Their first Amendment rights end where the rights of others suffer.

    Remember the whole can't yell fire in a theatre thing?
    so shouldn't that apply to 2A as well?
    They should, and they do.  People that exercise their  2nd Amendment rights neglectfully should be held accountable for doing so.
    I believe I have seen unsung disagree with that. 
    Yeah, explain in detail please.  I don't condone aggression upon anyone except in defense.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    My guess is that Hugh was speaking to the millions of people who leave loaded weapons lying around neglectfully and the millions of guns sold without background checks neglectfully.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,808
    edited June 2018
    unsung said:
    PJPOWER said:
    unsung said:
    Their first Amendment rights end where the rights of others suffer.

    Remember the whole can't yell fire in a theatre thing?
    so shouldn't that apply to 2A as well?
    They should, and they do.  People that exercise their  2nd Amendment rights neglectfully should be held accountable for doing so.
    I believe I have seen unsung disagree with that. 
    Yeah, explain in detail please.  I don't condone aggression upon anyone except in defense.
    have you not stated previously that your right to carry trumps another's right to life/safety?
    Darwinspeed, all. 

    Cheers,

    HFD




  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo Face Posts: 6,499
    edited June 2018
    unsung said:
    PJPOWER said:
    unsung said:
    Their first Amendment rights end where the rights of others suffer.

    Remember the whole can't yell fire in a theatre thing?
    so shouldn't that apply to 2A as well?
    They should, and they do.  People that exercise their  2nd Amendment rights neglectfully should be held accountable for doing so.
    I believe I have seen unsung disagree with that. 
    Yeah, explain in detail please.  I don't condone aggression upon anyone except in defense.
    have you not stated previously that your right to carry trumps another's right to life/safety?
    Now you are talking about two different things.  I, not speaking for unsung, would say that my *individual* right to carry has no relevance to another’s right to life/safety.  Now, if I *individually exercise that right in a neglectful manner that results in someone else’s safety or life being at risk, then I should be held accountable in the same way that a person yelling “fire” in a movie theater would be held responsible for any injuries that neglectful behavior resulted in.  There was a recent story about an FBI agent causing a firearm to discharge while he was doing a flip...now he is being held accountable for the negligence, which is exactly what should happen.  I would be fine with amping up the legal ramifications of said actions if that would deter negligence.

    Post edited by PJPOWER on
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,808
    PJPOWER said:
    unsung said:
    PJPOWER said:
    unsung said:
    Their first Amendment rights end where the rights of others suffer.

    Remember the whole can't yell fire in a theatre thing?
    so shouldn't that apply to 2A as well?
    They should, and they do.  People that exercise their  2nd Amendment rights neglectfully should be held accountable for doing so.
    I believe I have seen unsung disagree with that. 
    Yeah, explain in detail please.  I don't condone aggression upon anyone except in defense.
    have you not stated previously that your right to carry trumps another's right to life/safety?
    Now you are talking about two different things.  I, not speaking for unsung, would say that my *individual* right to carry has no relevance to another’s right to life/safety.  Now, if I *individually exercise that right in a neglectful manner that results in someone else’s safety or life being at risk, then I should be held accountable in the same way that a person yelling “fire” in a movie theater would be held responsible for any injuries that neglectful behavior resulted in.  There was a recent story about an FBI agent causing a firearm to discharge while he was doing a flip...now he is being held accountable for the negligence, which is exactly what should happen.  I would be fine with amping up the legal ramifications of said actions if that would deter negligence.

    k, my original response to you was incorrect. you misunderstood my point and then I misunderstood your response. 

    i wasn't speaking originally of people being neglectful of their firearms. Just stating very simply I believe he has stated in the past that his right to carry an AR-15 (or similar) trumps everyone else's right not to be killed by one. 
    Darwinspeed, all. 

    Cheers,

    HFD




  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo Face Posts: 6,499
    PJPOWER said:
    unsung said:
    PJPOWER said:
    unsung said:
    Their first Amendment rights end where the rights of others suffer.

    Remember the whole can't yell fire in a theatre thing?
    so shouldn't that apply to 2A as well?
    They should, and they do.  People that exercise their  2nd Amendment rights neglectfully should be held accountable for doing so.
    I believe I have seen unsung disagree with that. 
    Yeah, explain in detail please.  I don't condone aggression upon anyone except in defense.
    have you not stated previously that your right to carry trumps another's right to life/safety?
    Now you are talking about two different things.  I, not speaking for unsung, would say that my *individual* right to carry has no relevance to another’s right to life/safety.  Now, if I *individually exercise that right in a neglectful manner that results in someone else’s safety or life being at risk, then I should be held accountable in the same way that a person yelling “fire” in a movie theater would be held responsible for any injuries that neglectful behavior resulted in.  There was a recent story about an FBI agent causing a firearm to discharge while he was doing a flip...now he is being held accountable for the negligence, which is exactly what should happen.  I would be fine with amping up the legal ramifications of said actions if that would deter negligence.

    k, my original response to you was incorrect. you misunderstood my point and then I misunderstood your response. 

    i wasn't speaking originally of people being neglectful of their firearms. Just stating very simply I believe he has stated in the past that his right to carry an AR-15 (or similar) trumps everyone else's right not to be killed by one. 
    Oh, I see.  I think that is just a silly argument either way and was probably one of those viral meme quotes.  I do not think rights “Trump” each other, but are in addition to each other.  I have the right to own a firearm, but do not have the right to murder someone with it.  

  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    PJPOWER said:
    unsung said:
    PJPOWER said:
    unsung said:
    Their first Amendment rights end where the rights of others suffer.

    Remember the whole can't yell fire in a theatre thing?
    so shouldn't that apply to 2A as well?
    They should, and they do.  People that exercise their  2nd Amendment rights neglectfully should be held accountable for doing so.
    I believe I have seen unsung disagree with that. 
    Yeah, explain in detail please.  I don't condone aggression upon anyone except in defense.
    have you not stated previously that your right to carry trumps another's right to life/safety?
    Now you are talking about two different things.  I, not speaking for unsung, would say that my *individual* right to carry has no relevance to another’s right to life/safety.  Now, if I *individually exercise that right in a neglectful manner that results in someone else’s safety or life being at risk, then I should be held accountable in the same way that a person yelling “fire” in a movie theater would be held responsible for any injuries that neglectful behavior resulted in.  There was a recent story about an FBI agent causing a firearm to discharge while he was doing a flip...now he is being held accountable for the negligence, which is exactly what should happen.  I would be fine with amping up the legal ramifications of said actions if that would deter negligence.

    k, my original response to you was incorrect. you misunderstood my point and then I misunderstood your response. 

    i wasn't speaking originally of people being neglectful of their firearms. Just stating very simply I believe he has stated in the past that his right to carry an AR-15 (or similar) trumps everyone else's right not to be killed by one. 
    I don't know a single gun owner that believes being neglectful is acceptable.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,808
    unsung said:
    PJPOWER said:
    unsung said:
    PJPOWER said:
    unsung said:
    Their first Amendment rights end where the rights of others suffer.

    Remember the whole can't yell fire in a theatre thing?
    so shouldn't that apply to 2A as well?
    They should, and they do.  People that exercise their  2nd Amendment rights neglectfully should be held accountable for doing so.
    I believe I have seen unsung disagree with that. 
    Yeah, explain in detail please.  I don't condone aggression upon anyone except in defense.
    have you not stated previously that your right to carry trumps another's right to life/safety?
    Now you are talking about two different things.  I, not speaking for unsung, would say that my *individual* right to carry has no relevance to another’s right to life/safety.  Now, if I *individually exercise that right in a neglectful manner that results in someone else’s safety or life being at risk, then I should be held accountable in the same way that a person yelling “fire” in a movie theater would be held responsible for any injuries that neglectful behavior resulted in.  There was a recent story about an FBI agent causing a firearm to discharge while he was doing a flip...now he is being held accountable for the negligence, which is exactly what should happen.  I would be fine with amping up the legal ramifications of said actions if that would deter negligence.

    k, my original response to you was incorrect. you misunderstood my point and then I misunderstood your response. 

    i wasn't speaking originally of people being neglectful of their firearms. Just stating very simply I believe he has stated in the past that his right to carry an AR-15 (or similar) trumps everyone else's right not to be killed by one. 
    I don't know a single gun owner that believes being neglectful is acceptable.
    again, that's not what I was talking about. read again. 
    Darwinspeed, all. 

    Cheers,

    HFD




  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Same answer.

    If I carry an AR it doesn't take anyone else's right away.  If they attack me I would use it if forced to in order to defend myself.  I didn't take away their right to live, they gave it up when they aggressed against me.

    The mere act of carrying a gun does not take away anyone else's right to live.
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Who here is supporting or condemning Maxine Waters?

    Speak up.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,808
    unsung said:
    Same answer.

    If I carry an AR it doesn't take anyone else's right away.  If they attack me I would use it if forced to in order to defend myself.  I didn't take away their right to live, they gave it up when they aggressed against me.

    The mere act of carrying a gun does not take away anyone else's right to live.
    not the act specifically. the right. I believe you have stated your right to carry it (AKA: that style of weapon being legal to carry) is more important than saving lives by making it illegal to have the option of carrying it. 

    correct or no?
    Darwinspeed, all. 

    Cheers,

    HFD




  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Yes.  

    Because it won't save lives.

    Let's make murder illegal first.  That would mean nobody would murder, right?
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,808
    unsung said:
    Yes.  

    Because it won't save lives.

    Let's make murder illegal first.  That would mean nobody would murder, right?
    oh jesus. not this again. 

    (mass murderers) - (weapon of choice for maximum casualties) = x

    please solve for x. I'll give you a hint: it's not zero. 
    Darwinspeed, all. 

    Cheers,

    HFD




  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    It really is simple.  Murder is illegal.  I know let's make it illegaler!  That'll solve it.

    Or maybe teach people to value life.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,808
    unsung said:
    It really is simple.  Murder is illegal.  I know let's make it illegaler!  That'll solve it.

    Or maybe teach people to value life.
    so let's give people whatever tools they want to commit murder!

    free market murder I say! 
    Darwinspeed, all. 

    Cheers,

    HFD




  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Nobody is giving anyone anything.  Firearms are subject to background checks.  


  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,808
    unsung said:
    Nobody is giving anyone anything.  Firearms are subject to background checks.  


    yes, and those work so well with the current laws in place. 
    Darwinspeed, all. 

    Cheers,

    HFD




  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,739
    unsung said:
    It really is simple.  Murder is illegal.  I know let's make it illegaler!  That'll solve it.

    Or maybe teach people to value life.
    This Reminds me of a gun control measure that New Jersey passed the other day; they banned armor piercing ammunition that was already banned under federal law.  So now they made it even illegaler.  I bet they felt real good after signing it.  Idiots.
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,481
    unsung said:
    It really is simple.  Murder is illegal.  I know let's make it illegaler!  That'll solve it.

    Or maybe teach people to value life.
    Is this when you propose outlawing abortion so that everyone will “value” life?
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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,808
    mcgruff10 said:
    unsung said:
    It really is simple.  Murder is illegal.  I know let's make it illegaler!  That'll solve it.

    Or maybe teach people to value life.
    This Reminds me of a gun control measure that New Jersey passed the other day; they banned armor piercing ammunition that was already banned under federal law.  So now they made it even illegaler.  I bet they felt real good after signing it.  Idiots.
    no, they made it illegal at the state level in case the federal law gets changed. 
    Darwinspeed, all. 

    Cheers,

    HFD




  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,481
    mcgruff10 said:
    unsung said:
    It really is simple.  Murder is illegal.  I know let's make it illegaler!  That'll solve it.

    Or maybe teach people to value life.
    This Reminds me of a gun control measure that New Jersey passed the other day; they banned armor piercing ammunition that was already banned under federal law.  So now they made it even illegaler.  I bet they felt real good after signing it.  Idiots.
    no, they made it illegal at the state level in case the federal law gets changed. 
    I’m sure the NRA is lobbying for the repeal of legislation that bans or restricts armor piercing ammunition.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,739
    mcgruff10 said:
    unsung said:
    It really is simple.  Murder is illegal.  I know let's make it illegaler!  That'll solve it.

    Or maybe teach people to value life.
    This Reminds me of a gun control measure that New Jersey passed the other day; they banned armor piercing ammunition that was already banned under federal law.  So now they made it even illegaler.  I bet they felt real good after signing it.  Idiots.
    no, they made it illegal at the state level in case the federal law gets changed. 
    I’m sure the NRA is lobbying for the repeal of legislation that bans or restricts armor piercing ammunition.
    I don't believe so. I think I got my monthly magazine from them today, I'll go see if there is an article about this.
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    mcgruff10 said:
    unsung said:
    It really is simple.  Murder is illegal.  I know let's make it illegaler!  That'll solve it.

    Or maybe teach people to value life.
    This Reminds me of a gun control measure that New Jersey passed the other day; they banned armor piercing ammunition that was already banned under federal law.  So now they made it even illegaler.  I bet they felt real good after signing it.  Idiots.
    Illinois wants to licence people that sell firearms, even though the sellers are already fedrally licensed.

    They did leave an exemption for big box stores though, so it isn't really about safety, only the mom and pop shops suffer.
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    unsung said:
    It really is simple.  Murder is illegal.  I know let's make it illegaler!  That'll solve it.

    Or maybe teach people to value life.
    Is this when you propose outlawing abortion so that everyone will “value” life?
    I can't tell you or anyone else how to value it.  That is your call and you get to deal with the results.
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