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"If there were no angels would there be no sin"

MoonlightingMoonlighting England Posts: 136
edited December 2003 in Words and Music...Communication
I don't get this line...

Is it the angels who are sinning or is it because the angels are so beautiful it's causing everybody else to sin by thinking unpure thoughts?

Help me out people...
Absolute Equality.No more.No less - AHFA
Post edited by Unknown User on

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    coleencoleen Posts: 938
    i always thought it spoke more to the yin/yang kind of philosophy...no good without bad.

    if we didn't have angels to measure purity/beauty/goodness against than would we have sin?

    thats one of the many great things about pj's lyrics...open to many different perspectives and interpretations.
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    rybesrybes Posts: 136
    yeah I would agree with coleen, no good without bad, they go hand in hand
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    MoonlightingMoonlighting England Posts: 136
    Hmmm...that sounds like a reasonable explanation but don't you think that mine's more interesting?

    :)
    Absolute Equality.No more.No less - AHFA
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    coleencoleen Posts: 938
    Originally posted by Moonlighting
    Hmmm...that sounds like a reasonable explanation but don't you think that mine's more interesting?

    :)

    of course :)

    its always more interesting to see something from someone else's perspective.
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    CranMalReignCranMalReign Posts: 1,928
    Yah, moonlighting... your suggestion is more interesting but...

    What about really good, really nice ugly people? Can't angels be ugly, too?
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    coleencoleen Posts: 938
    Originally posted by CranMalReign
    Yah, moonlighting... your suggestion is more interesting but...

    What about really good, really nice ugly people? Can't angels be ugly, too?

    beauty doesn't necessarily have to be about what an angel/person looks like though does it CranMalReign? Couldn't Moonlighting also have been referring to inner beauty?

    besides, beauty is such a relative thing anyway...haven't you ever been over the moon about someone and think they were just as beautiful to look at as they are wonderful/amazing/interesting etc and have others not "see" the same beauty that you see?

    just a thought. :)
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    Sea As His FloorSea As His Floor Posts: 22
    I agree with all of you on the whole "no good without bad" theory and I think this is probably what Ed meant when he wrote it, but you also have to think that if there where no angels then there would have never been Satan. If you believe in that whole Christianity thing, then you know that Satan is the root off all sin and he was originally an angel. So if "God" had never created angels, then there would have never been Satan or sin. Does that make sense?
    "The children have to save themselves these days because the parents don't have a clue"-Donnie Darko

    "We were done, done, done with all the fuck, fuck, fuckin around"-Modest Mouse
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    coleencoleen Posts: 938
    i agree with your thoughts as well Sea - i was kinda trying to get to a similar point when i first responded but hadn't been able explain it properly so i gave up.

    i was also kind of thinking about taking it even a step further by suggesting that there may also be a commentary on organized religion. not so much a judgement of whether or not organized religion is a good/bad thing but maybe more so how individuals interpret it if that makes sense. like if there were no moral law to judge perfection/purity by then what would qualify as sin?
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    pearspears Posts: 36
    yup.

    with the angels... you have those that have fallen.

    gotta love milton. :)

    much like the scene in the two towers where gandolf is falling like the michael and the archangel through the mountains... :)
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    Sea As His FloorSea As His Floor Posts: 22
    Ah Coleen, you have done me one better. I love the point that you made. Very deep. What would constitue indeed.
    "The children have to save themselves these days because the parents don't have a clue"-Donnie Darko

    "We were done, done, done with all the fuck, fuck, fuckin around"-Modest Mouse
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    EchoesEchoes Posts: 1,279
    No to bible thump here, but the is indeed a good grain of truth in that a statement. I don't, however believe that since we have angels to compare our actions against, we have sin because of these angels. If God were to do away with angels, sin would still exist. It is also foolish to try and exclude God and Christianity from this discussion, because to suscribe to the concept of sin and angels is to suscribe to religion, granted, not only Christianity, as I may have made it sound like earlier. If there were no angels in the first place, then there would be no God, then therefore no existence. And without existence, there can be no humans to sin. Granted, if God were to remove angels now and have the world continue as it is, sin would still exist, as sin is ingrained in every action of our lives. No matter what we do, every human is living in a constant state of sin. That is just how it is. I hope I got my point across....correct me if I'm wrong...but this is just my view....what'd ya think?
    printf("shiver in eternal darkness\n");
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    Imagine8Imagine8 Posts: 10
    Thanks, Echos, for reminding why organized religion sucks!!
    :)

    I guess I just can't swallow the whole "everyone is in a constant state of sin" crap that religions tend to throw at people. I'm not trying to attack you here, so I'm sorry if it sounds that way. Just not for me, is all. But I'm happy for you if it works for you!

    About the post, though, I think the following line may have something to offer in figuring out this line....

    "uhhhh...you better stop me before I begin..."

    To me, that could mean "sorry, I'm getting off track.." OR "I just wrote that line because it sounded deep..." :) Not to say that the line isn't interesting, it is! I just think that sometimes songwriters (mostly exluding PJ) put two contradicting ideas next to each other because it sounds smart as hell, when it would really mean nothing. Again, I'm not saying that this lyric is like that, just that that's what "uhhhh....you better stop me before I begin.." might refer to. It might be PJ saying..."that's something we usually edit...." I don't know....
    "It's already been sung, but it can't be said enough..'ALL YOU NEED IS LOVE' "
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    EchoesEchoes Posts: 1,279
    No problem, I was just pointing out the things that should be taken into consideration whenever this sort of thing is tackled
    printf("shiver in eternal darkness\n");
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    jameshstephensonjameshstephenson Posts: 5
    I think this line is best when included with the line after it:

    "You'd better stop me before I begin"
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    Sea As His FloorSea As His Floor Posts: 22
    When Ed sings "You better stop me before I begin" I think he is just saying that if he continues along those lines then we'll be here all night! lol Get what I'm saying? I think he just means that he will get too deep into things if he goes any further. Who knows?
    "The children have to save themselves these days because the parents don't have a clue"-Donnie Darko

    "We were done, done, done with all the fuck, fuck, fuckin around"-Modest Mouse
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    jlambrojlambro Posts: 5
    I think "you better stop me before I begin" refers to how the subject of perceived sinning and the nature of good and bad and even religion is something that Ed has a lot of opinions about, and would be too much to expound on for this one song.

    Let's have a PJ album on all of THAT...
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    jlambrojlambro Posts: 5
    Wow, i suck. I posted without reading all the way through and revived a three weeks dead post...sorry
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    BhagavadGitaBhagavadGita Posts: 1,748
    Originally posted by Moonlighting
    I don't get this line...

    Is it the angels who are sinning or is it because the angels are so beautiful it's causing everybody else to sin by thinking unpure thoughts?

    Help me out people...

    Well, the angels would have nothing to do if there was nothing to protect us from and so it goes.
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    SoundSound Posts: 579
    i love the sound he makes after saying that

    if there were no angels... no sin "ahrrrr" you better stop...
    It was a dream, not a nightmare. A beautiful dream I could never imagined in a thousand nods. I saw this girl next to me, she wasn't beautiful until she smiled. And I felt that smile come at me in heat waves following. Soaking through my body and out my finger tips in shafts of color. And I knew somewhere in the world, somewhere, that there was love for me.

    Jim Carrol
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    noteasynoteasy Posts: 60
    well... actually angels were the first to sin! that's why they became fallen, devils...
    so maybe the question is also: if there were no angels in the beggining, where would sin come from?
    if angels which were perfect creatures sinned...then ,,,would ever a human being be able to stop himself from sinning?
    www.bushisms.com
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    AyedavanitaAyedavanita Posts: 1,443
    again...better stop me before I begin...
    "You think I got my eyes closed but I'm lookin' at you the whole fuckin' time..."
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