Is America the greatest country in the world?

Spiritual_Chaos

mcgruff10 said:

1. No way we could mobilize our troops in the time period.  2.  No way we are taking on Germany and the Soviet Union. 3. At this point in the war we are minding our own business and enduring the Great Depression. 

 I mean we eventually did get involved a little over two years later and fought all over the world.
Tell me again how the Swedish armed forces helped to defeat the Axis powers?

1. Us mobilizing our troops wouldn't matter - remember, both Germany and the Allies had plans ready to invade Sweden.
2. But you expect Sweden to take on Germany during their military peak?
3. We were also trying to keep minding our own business by staying out of the war.

Meltdown99

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

rgambs said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mcgruff10 said:

I was just reading about on Sweden's role in World War 2 and found the following: Was Sweden really "neutral" during World War 2?  

Sweden's role in the Second World War had its darker side, it allowed the Germans to transit troops, supplies and communications through the country.

Sweden also profited from the Holocaust. It is known that Wallenberg's relatives made money converting Nazi gold into Swedish crowns and that Sweden provided iron ore and ball bearings to the Nazis. Swedish documents reveal that some Swedes actually sided with the Nazis and volunteered to fight for Hitler. Some Swedes were members of the Waffen SS and served in police batallions.

A committee was established by the Swedish government in 1997 to investigate the transfer of Nazi gold to Sweden during the war. It is reported that Sweden received 38 tons of gold from Nazi Germany (worth today US $430 million). Many Swedish companies, such as Ericsson, AGA and Hasselblad Cameras, as well as the country's paper and wood industries traded with Nazi Germany. Swedish jewelers bought stolen diamonds, which were smuggled into Sweden by civil servants working at the German legation in Stockholm.

An exhibition on Sweden and the Holocaust, opening in Lund, not far from where Chavka Folman-Raban enjoyed her first weeks of freedom, aims to shed light on this darker side of Sweden’s relationship to Nazism. The exhibition, accompanied by seminars and publication of new research, shows how Swedish industry benefited from the war and how Swedish scientific institutions were leaders in the fields of race biology and eugenic research. 

The exhibition also shows how Nazi ideals found Swedish sympathizers and how Sweden limited freedom of speech, and introduced immigration laws which turned away asylum seekers from Germany, many of whom were later murdered in concentration camps.

Never knew this.

How very chickenshit of them (if Spirtual's explanation for cozying up to Nazis is accurate). I mean... America (and Canada I might add) sent their sons abroad to fight for life and liberty on the very continent Sweden tucked their tails on.

Chickenshit/betraying our Norweigan and Finnish brothers or a correct decision to stay out of the war - the discussion about it will never stop here in Sweden. 

Fun fact: Only time I had to endure a "sweden hater" was when I lived in Oslo for a short while and stood in cue in a supermarket. The old man behind me heard me speaking swedish and started attacking me about how much he hated Sweden and how Sweden acted in the war and towards Norway. 

Should be noted that during our neutral stance we also helped the Allied.

Well, you should know that the discussion is settled in the rest of the world, and "correct decision" is not a phrase that ever gets used.

I do not think you are an authority or well advertised in what is being settled in the world or not regarding Sweden's decision to protect its country from war and its citizens from death.

And tell me again, where was the US before their own country got attacked? Why didn't you people come to the aid of Poland in 1939 if your're not chickenshits?

Why on earth would we defend Poland?  They were conquered in thirty days by two countries that had enormous armies.  1. No way we could mobilize our troops in the time period.  2.  No way we are taking on Germany and the Soviet Union. 3. At this point in the war we are minding our own business and enduring the Great Depression.
 I mean we eventually did get involved a little over two years later and fought all over the world.
Tell me again how the Swedish armed forces helped to defeat the Axis powers?

You are probably more knowledgeable on this, I remember reading an article that the US military after WW1 was in peacetime mode and was not prepared for WW2, hence their late entrance.  But when the US industrial base kicked and started manufacturing the tools of war, probably in record time...

Meltdown99

Spiritual_Chaos said:

rgambs said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mcgruff10 said:

I was just reading about on Sweden's role in World War 2 and found the following: Was Sweden really "neutral" during World War 2?  

Sweden's role in the Second World War had its darker side, it allowed the Germans to transit troops, supplies and communications through the country.

Sweden also profited from the Holocaust. It is known that Wallenberg's relatives made money converting Nazi gold into Swedish crowns and that Sweden provided iron ore and ball bearings to the Nazis. Swedish documents reveal that some Swedes actually sided with the Nazis and volunteered to fight for Hitler. Some Swedes were members of the Waffen SS and served in police batallions.

A committee was established by the Swedish government in 1997 to investigate the transfer of Nazi gold to Sweden during the war. It is reported that Sweden received 38 tons of gold from Nazi Germany (worth today US $430 million). Many Swedish companies, such as Ericsson, AGA and Hasselblad Cameras, as well as the country's paper and wood industries traded with Nazi Germany. Swedish jewelers bought stolen diamonds, which were smuggled into Sweden by civil servants working at the German legation in Stockholm.

An exhibition on Sweden and the Holocaust, opening in Lund, not far from where Chavka Folman-Raban enjoyed her first weeks of freedom, aims to shed light on this darker side of Sweden’s relationship to Nazism. The exhibition, accompanied by seminars and publication of new research, shows how Swedish industry benefited from the war and how Swedish scientific institutions were leaders in the fields of race biology and eugenic research. 

The exhibition also shows how Nazi ideals found Swedish sympathizers and how Sweden limited freedom of speech, and introduced immigration laws which turned away asylum seekers from Germany, many of whom were later murdered in concentration camps.

Never knew this.

How very chickenshit of them (if Spirtual's explanation for cozying up to Nazis is accurate). I mean... America (and Canada I might add) sent their sons abroad to fight for life and liberty on the very continent Sweden tucked their tails on.

Chickenshit/betraying our Norweigan and Finnish brothers or a correct decision to stay out of the war - the discussion about it will never stop here in Sweden. 

Fun fact: Only time I had to endure a "sweden hater" was when I lived in Oslo for a short while and stood in cue in a supermarket. The old man behind me heard me speaking swedish and started attacking me about how much he hated Sweden and how Sweden acted in the war and towards Norway. 

Should be noted that during our neutral stance we also helped the Allied.

Well, you should know that the discussion is settled in the rest of the world, and "correct decision" is not a phrase that ever gets used.

I do not think you are an authority or well advertised in what is being settled in the world or not regarding Sweden's decision to protect its country from war and its citizens from death.

And tell me again, where was the US before their own country got attacked? Why didn't you people come to the aid of Poland in 1939 if your're not chickenshits?

Has it ever occurred to you that the US delayed entrance was a good thing?  My Uncles who served in WW2, in which they said very little, always said by 1944 everyone was tired of the war and just wanted to get home, they strongly believed their late entrance brought in much-needed men to finish ICE off, I mean the Nazi's...Not to mention fresh supplies, plenty of war machinery to get the job done...so there is that. By the way, yes your country was chickenshit...

mcgruff10

Meltdown99 said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

rgambs said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mcgruff10 said:

I was just reading about on Sweden's role in World War 2 and found the following: Was Sweden really "neutral" during World War 2?  

Sweden's role in the Second World War had its darker side, it allowed the Germans to transit troops, supplies and communications through the country.

Sweden also profited from the Holocaust. It is known that Wallenberg's relatives made money converting Nazi gold into Swedish crowns and that Sweden provided iron ore and ball bearings to the Nazis. Swedish documents reveal that some Swedes actually sided with the Nazis and volunteered to fight for Hitler. Some Swedes were members of the Waffen SS and served in police batallions.

A committee was established by the Swedish government in 1997 to investigate the transfer of Nazi gold to Sweden during the war. It is reported that Sweden received 38 tons of gold from Nazi Germany (worth today US $430 million). Many Swedish companies, such as Ericsson, AGA and Hasselblad Cameras, as well as the country's paper and wood industries traded with Nazi Germany. Swedish jewelers bought stolen diamonds, which were smuggled into Sweden by civil servants working at the German legation in Stockholm.

An exhibition on Sweden and the Holocaust, opening in Lund, not far from where Chavka Folman-Raban enjoyed her first weeks of freedom, aims to shed light on this darker side of Sweden’s relationship to Nazism. The exhibition, accompanied by seminars and publication of new research, shows how Swedish industry benefited from the war and how Swedish scientific institutions were leaders in the fields of race biology and eugenic research. 

The exhibition also shows how Nazi ideals found Swedish sympathizers and how Sweden limited freedom of speech, and introduced immigration laws which turned away asylum seekers from Germany, many of whom were later murdered in concentration camps.

Never knew this.

How very chickenshit of them (if Spirtual's explanation for cozying up to Nazis is accurate). I mean... America (and Canada I might add) sent their sons abroad to fight for life and liberty on the very continent Sweden tucked their tails on.

Chickenshit/betraying our Norweigan and Finnish brothers or a correct decision to stay out of the war - the discussion about it will never stop here in Sweden. 

Fun fact: Only time I had to endure a "sweden hater" was when I lived in Oslo for a short while and stood in cue in a supermarket. The old man behind me heard me speaking swedish and started attacking me about how much he hated Sweden and how Sweden acted in the war and towards Norway. 

Should be noted that during our neutral stance we also helped the Allied.

Well, you should know that the discussion is settled in the rest of the world, and "correct decision" is not a phrase that ever gets used.

I do not think you are an authority or well advertised in what is being settled in the world or not regarding Sweden's decision to protect its country from war and its citizens from death.

And tell me again, where was the US before their own country got attacked? Why didn't you people come to the aid of Poland in 1939 if your're not chickenshits?

Why on earth would we defend Poland?  They were conquered in thirty days by two countries that had enormous armies.  1. No way we could mobilize our troops in the time period.  2.  No way we are taking on Germany and the Soviet Union. 3. At this point in the war we are minding our own business and enduring the Great Depression.
 I mean we eventually did get involved a little over two years later and fought all over the world.
Tell me again how the Swedish armed forces helped to defeat the Axis powers?

You are probably more knowledgeable on this, I remember reading an article that the US military after WW1 was in peacetime mode and was not prepared for WW2, hence their late entrance.  But when the US industrial base kicked and started manufacturing the tools of war, probably in record time...

All correct sir.  Our armed forces weren't prepared on December 7, 1941 so imagine how much less prepared they were two years earlier.  Going from a peace time to a war time economy in such a quick amount of time was really mind blowing.  The amount of planes, tanks, etc that were built all across the U.S. was really astonishing. (and between 1939 to 1941 we had started the Lend Lease program to Great Britain , china and later on the soviet union)  And of course many other countries did the same with their war manufacturing.  Hell when Germany invaded the Soviet Union the Russians literally picked up their factories and moved them hundreds of miles to the east.  

mcgruff10

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

1. No way we could mobilize our troops in the time period.  2.  No way we are taking on Germany and the Soviet Union. 3. At this point in the war we are minding our own business and enduring the Great Depression. 

 I mean we eventually did get involved a little over two years later and fought all over the world.
Tell me again how the Swedish armed forces helped to defeat the Axis powers?

1. Us mobilizing our troops wouldn't matter - remember, both Germany and the Allies had plans ready to invade Sweden.
2. But you expect Sweden to take on Germany during their military peak?
3. We were also trying to keep minding our own business by staying out of the war.

Yeah but the blaring difference was that the war was in your backyard, not ours (and yet we still helped).  I mean your neighbors, Denmark, Norway and Finland were all at war.  If Canada gets invaded the US isn't sitting it out.  

Meltdown99

mcgruff10 said:

Meltdown99 said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

rgambs said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mcgruff10 said:

I was just reading about on Sweden's role in World War 2 and found the following: Was Sweden really "neutral" during World War 2?  

Sweden's role in the Second World War had its darker side, it allowed the Germans to transit troops, supplies and communications through the country.

Sweden also profited from the Holocaust. It is known that Wallenberg's relatives made money converting Nazi gold into Swedish crowns and that Sweden provided iron ore and ball bearings to the Nazis. Swedish documents reveal that some Swedes actually sided with the Nazis and volunteered to fight for Hitler. Some Swedes were members of the Waffen SS and served in police batallions.

A committee was established by the Swedish government in 1997 to investigate the transfer of Nazi gold to Sweden during the war. It is reported that Sweden received 38 tons of gold from Nazi Germany (worth today US $430 million). Many Swedish companies, such as Ericsson, AGA and Hasselblad Cameras, as well as the country's paper and wood industries traded with Nazi Germany. Swedish jewelers bought stolen diamonds, which were smuggled into Sweden by civil servants working at the German legation in Stockholm.

An exhibition on Sweden and the Holocaust, opening in Lund, not far from where Chavka Folman-Raban enjoyed her first weeks of freedom, aims to shed light on this darker side of Sweden’s relationship to Nazism. The exhibition, accompanied by seminars and publication of new research, shows how Swedish industry benefited from the war and how Swedish scientific institutions were leaders in the fields of race biology and eugenic research. 

The exhibition also shows how Nazi ideals found Swedish sympathizers and how Sweden limited freedom of speech, and introduced immigration laws which turned away asylum seekers from Germany, many of whom were later murdered in concentration camps.

Never knew this.

How very chickenshit of them (if Spirtual's explanation for cozying up to Nazis is accurate). I mean... America (and Canada I might add) sent their sons abroad to fight for life and liberty on the very continent Sweden tucked their tails on.

Chickenshit/betraying our Norweigan and Finnish brothers or a correct decision to stay out of the war - the discussion about it will never stop here in Sweden. 

Fun fact: Only time I had to endure a "sweden hater" was when I lived in Oslo for a short while and stood in cue in a supermarket. The old man behind me heard me speaking swedish and started attacking me about how much he hated Sweden and how Sweden acted in the war and towards Norway. 

Should be noted that during our neutral stance we also helped the Allied.

Well, you should know that the discussion is settled in the rest of the world, and "correct decision" is not a phrase that ever gets used.

I do not think you are an authority or well advertised in what is being settled in the world or not regarding Sweden's decision to protect its country from war and its citizens from death.

And tell me again, where was the US before their own country got attacked? Why didn't you people come to the aid of Poland in 1939 if your're not chickenshits?

Why on earth would we defend Poland?  They were conquered in thirty days by two countries that had enormous armies.  1. No way we could mobilize our troops in the time period.  2.  No way we are taking on Germany and the Soviet Union. 3. At this point in the war we are minding our own business and enduring the Great Depression.
 I mean we eventually did get involved a little over two years later and fought all over the world.
Tell me again how the Swedish armed forces helped to defeat the Axis powers?

You are probably more knowledgeable on this, I remember reading an article that the US military after WW1 was in peacetime mode and was not prepared for WW2, hence their late entrance.  But when the US industrial base kicked and started manufacturing the tools of war, probably in record time...

All correct sir.  Our armed forces weren't prepared on December 7, 1941 so imagine how much less prepared they were two years earlier.  Going from a peace time to a war time economy in such a quick amount of time was really mind blowing.  The amount of planes, tanks, etc that were built all across the U.S. was really astonishing. (and between 1939 to 1941 we had started the Lend Lease program to Great Britain , china and later on the soviet union)  And of course many other countries did the same with their war manufacturing.  Hell when Germany invaded the Soviet Union the Russians literally picked up their factories and moved them hundreds of miles to the east.  

Thanks for the short history lesson.  That's why keeping a manufacturing economy is important.  I'd like to say WW3 will never happen, but history suggests its best to prepared...

Spiritual_Chaos

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

1. No way we could mobilize our troops in the time period.  2.  No way we are taking on Germany and the Soviet Union. 3. At this point in the war we are minding our own business and enduring the Great Depression. 

 I mean we eventually did get involved a little over two years later and fought all over the world.
Tell me again how the Swedish armed forces helped to defeat the Axis powers?

1. Us mobilizing our troops wouldn't matter - remember, both Germany and the Allies had plans ready to invade Sweden.
2. But you expect Sweden to take on Germany during their military peak?
3. We were also trying to keep minding our own business by staying out of the war.

Yeah but the blaring difference was that the war was in your backyard, not ours (and yet we still helped).  I mean your neighbors, Denmark, Norway and Finland were all at war.  If Canada gets invaded the US isn't sitting it out.  

I think there is a chance you would sit that out. I mean your country can wreck the middle east and then stand by and gloat and use Sweden (and Germany) as warning examples when we take care of the refugees fleeing your little party. What kind of country would do someything like that?

And, the other side of your coin (KISS reference) would be that keeping neutral in the midst of the chaos is harder than sitting back across the atlantic chilling out. Our stance was to stay neutral and that we would get wrecked trying to stand against Germany. So a decision was made for the sake of our country and its population. By the way - we took care of a hell of a lot refugees and children from our neighbouring countries during this time. How is helping out all south american children going? Oh right, they're actually dying in cages right?

Not saying Swedens decision was the right one. With those events being far off memories it is easy to be all "Ofc we should have entered the war!" --  But not being totally wrecked and overtaken by Germany is an argument to have in mind and what won at the time. And I know you love that Trumps is talking with Kim (with your: "not bad in my book") -- you know Swedens neutral stance in the world helped out with making that meeting a possibility? 

Another factor is Sweden's famous policy of neutrality: the Nordic nation has a history (and a sometimes controversial history) of avoiding picking sides in conflicts. In the case of North Korea, that has helped Sweden to be a leader in attempting to thaw relations between the communist state and western nations. /.../ The Swedes also serve an important role for the US in North Korea, working as a Protecting Power for America in the country, which includes providing consular responsibility for US citizens there. It performs the same role for Canada and Australia.


(Should be noted that we were not neutral in the attack on Finland, Sweden made an exemption and was instead "non-belligerent" which ment we helped out with materiel but the people sent was not ordered but volunteers.

In total, from the Swedish military were handed over to Finland (in addition to the voluntary corps stock), among other 131,000 rifles with 42 million cartridges, 132 field guns, 100 anti-aircraft guns, 85 armored guards with 256,000 grenades and 8 aircraft)

Thirty Bills Unpaid

But if I'm reading correctly... being 'neutral' meant playing on both sides of the fence- not just 'unattached' in a truly neutral manner. This wasn't a case of 'good people on both sides'.

It was a crappy time no question, but let's not play 'neutrality' as anything to be admired. There was a clear and imminent threat at your that needed to be addressed.

josevolution

No 

Spiritual_Chaos

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

But if I'm reading correctly... being 'neutral' meant playing on both sides of the fence- not just 'unattached' in a truly neutral manner. This wasn't a case of 'good people on both sides'.

It was a crappy time no question, but let's not play 'neutrality' as anything to be admired. There was a clear and imminent threat at your that needed to be addressed.

Yes you are reading it correctly, concessions was made to stay out of the war. And Sweden was entangled with Germany, it was one of our big trading partners. A lot of our exporting went to Germany.

(I don't think anyone is admiring it.)

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

But if I'm reading correctly... being 'neutral' meant playing on both sides of the fence- not just 'unattached' in a truly neutral manner. This wasn't a case of 'good people on both sides'.

It was a crappy time no question, but let's not play 'neutrality' as anything to be admired. There was a clear and imminent threat at your that needed to be addressed.

Yes you are reading it correctly, concessions was made to stay out of the war. And Sweden was entangled with Germany, it was one of our big trading partners. A lot of our exporting went to Germany.

(I don't think anyone is admiring it.)

Every country has its shameful past, Spiritual.

Nobody (at least I'm not) is condemning the people of today for the crimes and sins of our forefathers.

rgambs

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

But if I'm reading correctly... being 'neutral' meant playing on both sides of the fence- not just 'unattached' in a truly neutral manner. This wasn't a case of 'good people on both sides'.

It was a crappy time no question, but let's not play 'neutrality' as anything to be admired. There was a clear and imminent threat at your that needed to be addressed.

Yes you are reading it correctly, concessions was made to stay out of the war. And Sweden was entangled with Germany, it was one of our big trading partners. A lot of our exporting went to Germany.

(I don't think anyone is admiring it.)

Every country has its shameful past, Spiritual.

Nobody (at least I'm not) is condemning the people of today for the crimes and sins of our forefathers.

Agreed.
The point was obviously thoroughly conveyed though, SC immediately went on the defensive and justified Sweden's inaction and war profiting.  That jump to justify, rather than just owning the poor choices should teach SC a good bit about responses in this thread, but I doubt it will.

josevolution

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

But if I'm reading correctly... being 'neutral' meant playing on both sides of the fence- not just 'unattached' in a truly neutral manner. This wasn't a case of 'good people on both sides'.

It was a crappy time no question, but let's not play 'neutrality' as anything to be admired. There was a clear and imminent threat at your that needed to be addressed.

Yes you are reading it correctly, concessions was made to stay out of the war. And Sweden was entangled with Germany, it was one of our big trading partners. A lot of our exporting went to Germany.

(I don't think anyone is admiring it.)

Every country has its shameful past, Spiritual.

Nobody (at least I'm not) is condemning the people of today for the crimes and sins of our forefathers.

Agreed this mighty country here has a lot to be ashamed of ..

Spiritual_Chaos

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

But if I'm reading correctly... being 'neutral' meant playing on both sides of the fence- not just 'unattached' in a truly neutral manner. This wasn't a case of 'good people on both sides'.

It was a crappy time no question, but let's not play 'neutrality' as anything to be admired. There was a clear and imminent threat at your that needed to be addressed.

Yes you are reading it correctly, concessions was made to stay out of the war. And Sweden was entangled with Germany, it was one of our big trading partners. A lot of our exporting went to Germany.

(I don't think anyone is admiring it.)

Every country has its shameful past, Spiritual.

Nobody (at least I'm not) is condemning the people of today for the crimes and sins of our forefathers.

Agreed.
The point was obviously thoroughly conveyed though, SC immediately went on the defensive and justified Sweden's inaction and war profiting.  That jump to justify, rather than just owning the poor choices should teach SC a good bit about responses in this thread, but I doubt it will.

It's not my role to own poor choices being made by a country 70 years ago. How would I even go about doing that...

I have also, to my knowledge not said what my own opinion regarding the choice to stay neutral was. I was just arguing for the reasons that existed to stay neutral and filled in some facts regarding the situation.

I do not admire the fact Swedish companies exported iron to the German war machine. But I can still lay out the reasons for why Sweden did as they did.

josevolution

Spiritual_Chaos said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

But if I'm reading correctly... being 'neutral' meant playing on both sides of the fence- not just 'unattached' in a truly neutral manner. This wasn't a case of 'good people on both sides'.

It was a crappy time no question, but let's not play 'neutrality' as anything to be admired. There was a clear and imminent threat at your that needed to be addressed.

Yes you are reading it correctly, concessions was made to stay out of the war. And Sweden was entangled with Germany, it was one of our big trading partners. A lot of our exporting went to Germany.

(I don't think anyone is admiring it.)

Every country has its shameful past, Spiritual.

Nobody (at least I'm not) is condemning the people of today for the crimes and sins of our forefathers.

Agreed.
The point was obviously thoroughly conveyed though, SC immediately went on the defensive and justified Sweden's inaction and war profiting.  That jump to justify, rather than just owning the poor choices should teach SC a good bit about responses in this thread, but I doubt it will.

It's not my role to own poor choices being made by a country 70 years ago. How would I even go about doing that...

I have also, to my knowledge not said what my own opinion regarding the choice to stay neutral was. I was just arguing for the reasons that existed to stay neutral and filled in some facts regarding the situation.

I do not admire the fact Swedish companies exported iron to the Germany war machine.

I’m not sure how rgams came to that conclusion I thought you made your point very clear ..

Meltdown99

I am curious about 1 thing SC, how come Sweden has not joined NATO?  Unless I'm mistaken.  And if war breaks out in Europe and you get dragged into or attacked, do you expect NATO countries to respond?  Now I know NATO would come to your aid, but still why not join?

Spiritual_Chaos

Meltdown99 said:

I am curious about 1 thing SC, how come Sweden has not joined NATO?  Unless I'm mistaken.  And if war breaks out in Europe and you get dragged into or attacked, do you expect NATO countries to respond?  Now I know NATO would come to your aid, but still why not join?

Because of the thing being discussed on the last pages - staying Neutral.

There are forces on the centre/right that do want us to join. The question pops up every election. But the public opinion isn't there or any form of majority in parliament. 

But the support for NATO is growing stronger. Some Parties has flipped opinion, and public opinion is getting higher. 

Here is what the organization "Swedish Peace" says:

NATO is exclusively a military organization whose core rests on deterrence, nuclear weapons and collective self-defense. The United States, a country that violates international law and pursues an impulsive and whimsical foreign policy, has a leading role in NATO. Turkey and Hungary are two more member states whose development is deeply problematic. Swedish Peace believes that a Swedish NATO membership risks limiting Sweden's foreign policy independence, that it can contribute to increasing tensions in the local area and increases the risk of Sweden being forced into an armed conflict. 

And here is what the party "The Liberals" who are the strongest advocates for NATO says:


Already today, we have a close and close cooperation with NATO through, for example, joint exercises, the host country agreement and Swedish participation in international efforts under NATO leadership. Therefore, we have no credible alliance-freedom. But at the same time, we cannot influence the organization because we are not members. Nor can we take advantage of the security policy guarantees that NATO members give each other.

Spiritual_Chaos

YOU CANT BE NEUTRAL ON A MOVING TRAIN

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Why stand on a silent platform? Fight the war, f**k the norm.

brianlux

"Resist Much, Obey Little"