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Five things you would like to see change in the world of music.

brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,051
in Other Music
I asked this elsewhere and am curious about this sort of thing:   What are the top five things would would like to see change in the world of today's music?

My top five:

1. End "the loudness wars". A little compression goes a long ways. I see this as a problem for even some of my most favorite bands.

2. Make vinyl more affordable again. I know... dream on. But what a fine dream! (Runner-up to this is make ticket prices more affordable.)

3. Have the music industry and fans alike give artists the opportunity to develop. I read somewhere that there is still an inclination in the music industry to rapidly promote bands and musicians, grab quick money on a hit or two and spit them back out. I'm open to being educated on this if I am wrong, but this seems to me to be the case.

4. Stop de-funding music education programs. This is not a universal problem but it does occur in many school districts. I'm not saying everyone should have to take music, but the creative arts do take a hit in many school districts. (This touches on my belief that it makes sense to let creative right-brained dominant students focus on creative arts if that's what they enjoy and logical left brained dominant students to focus on math or logic etc. if that's what they enjoy.)

5. Desist from disparaging music that is not liked. A big bias of mine- if you don't like it, please don't berate it. Consider saying, "To me, that record sucks" instead of just, "That record sucks." I don't see anyone having the right to make a universal value judgement about any music just because they don't like it. Please make criticisms your personal take rather than a universal statement. Some of us actually like (for example) Pearl Jam's song "Come back".
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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Comments

  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    Just one.

    Make physical, purchased records dominant again.
    Don't know how, but that would fix the friggin WORLD!
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,051
    rgambs said:
    Just one.

    Make physical, purchased records dominant again.
    Don't know how, but that would fix the friggin WORLD!
    I like it!  I could adopt that with my saying, "Analog love songs could save the world"!

    One of the responses on the Hoffman site suggested having new records "become more reasonably priced (I'm sorry, but $30-$50 is ridiculous, IMO)", to have them  "flat, centered, and free of non-fill",  and to "Please stop with the "audiophile" thick vinyl garbage and just produce well mastered good pressings on 130-150 gram vinyl for decent prices ($15-$20)".  Couldn't agree more!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    brianlux said:
    rgambs said:
    Just one.

    Make physical, purchased records dominant again.
    Don't know how, but that would fix the friggin WORLD!
    I like it!  I could adopt that with my saying, "Analog love songs could save the world"!

    One of the responses on the Hoffman site suggested having new records "become more reasonably priced (I'm sorry, but $30-$50 is ridiculous, IMO)", to have them  "flat, centered, and free of non-fill",  and to "Please stop with the "audiophile" thick vinyl garbage and just produce well mastered good pressings on 130-150 gram vinyl for decent prices ($15-$20)".  Couldn't agree more!
    I would just like to see CD's make a comeback, you can't even find stuff in music stores half the time you look for it! 
    I grew up on vinyl, and my parents had all the good stuff,  heck of a collection.  My very first recording that was mine was Meatloaf's Bat Out of Hell.  I had a tiny tape deck that I bungied to my bike and listened to it all the time.
    Analog was my childhood, but when CD's came around my old man didn't resist, he went digital and didn't look back.  I followed of course, especially being a pre-teen in a technologically advancing world.
    Remember when you'd get in somebody's car and it would be laden with overflowing CD binders?  You could tell how dedicated people were by their CD books.  
    I had a 64 full and I had a buddy who drove around with TWO full 208's lol

    I just want those days to come back, I know the olden vinyl days where you went to someone's house and sat and had a listening experience together were probably the best, but I would settle for CD's in cars and be happy for it.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,051
    rgambs said:
    brianlux said:
    rgambs said:
    Just one.

    Make physical, purchased records dominant again.
    Don't know how, but that would fix the friggin WORLD!
    I like it!  I could adopt that with my saying, "Analog love songs could save the world"!

    One of the responses on the Hoffman site suggested having new records "become more reasonably priced (I'm sorry, but $30-$50 is ridiculous, IMO)", to have them  "flat, centered, and free of non-fill",  and to "Please stop with the "audiophile" thick vinyl garbage and just produce well mastered good pressings on 130-150 gram vinyl for decent prices ($15-$20)".  Couldn't agree more!
    I would just like to see CD's make a comeback, you can't even find stuff in music stores half the time you look for it! 
    I grew up on vinyl, and my parents had all the good stuff,  heck of a collection.  My very first recording that was mine was Meatloaf's Bat Out of Hell.  I had a tiny tape deck that I bungied to my bike and listened to it all the time.
    Analog was my childhood, but when CD's came around my old man didn't resist, he went digital and didn't look back.  I followed of course, especially being a pre-teen in a technologically advancing world.
    Remember when you'd get in somebody's car and it would be laden with overflowing CD binders?  You could tell how dedicated people were by their CD books.  
    I had a 64 full and I had a buddy who drove around with TWO full 208's lol

    I just want those days to come back, I know the olden vinyl days where you went to someone's house and sat and had a listening experience together were probably the best, but I would settle for CD's in cars and be happy for it.
    I was anti-CD for quite a while.  That changed partly when I got a car that only played CDs and not tapes.  But also, since the late 90's, many CDs sound pretty good.  80's CDs to mid- 90's CD's sound terrible so I avoid those and, of course, I prefer vinyl, but now when CD's are the only option (if, like you say, you can find them) I'm OK with them.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • hauntingfamiliarhauntingfamiliar Posts: 10,217
    Uber. It's great for the obvious reasons. However "ubering" into a venue with massive lots of open, vacant space is crazy and makes me sad!

    I remember arriving early for a show. Walking around the parking lot for at least an hour.. or 3 before a show. Soaking up the environment, meeting people, hanging out, listening to music, talking to people, buying counterfeit tees, grilling out, avoiding the people trying to push their "books" on you, but ending up drinking a beer with them.... Spontaneously hanging out with people, social interaction with random people before a show.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,051
    hauntingfamiliar said:
    Uber. It's great for the obvious reasons. However "ubering" into a venue with massive lots of open, vacant space is crazy and makes me sad!

    I remember arriving early for a show. Walking around the parking lot for at least an hour.. or 3 before a show. Soaking up the environment, meeting people, hanging out, listening to music, talking to people, buying counterfeit tees, grilling out, avoiding the people trying to push their "books" on you, but ending up drinking a beer with them.... Spontaneously hanging out with people, social interaction with random people before a show.
    An interesting post but I'm a bit confused- What is "Ubering into a venue"?

    I've never had anyone try to hawk their book to me at a show.  Maybe I should try that with the one I'm doing the final revision for, especially since it's music related. 

    Just kidding!  (But I might hawk in somewhere on these forums.  :smiley:  )
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • hauntingfamiliarhauntingfamiliar Posts: 10,217
    ^ Ha ha! Just something I noticed when I went to a large arena show a few weeks ago. I took an Uber myself. The empty parking lots resonated with me and it reminded me how much things have changed. I do need to point out that even though the Uber made things convenient getting to the venue, it made it almost impossible to get back to the hotel. None were available until a solid hour, maybe longer after the show. And, the prices had quadrupled.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,051
    hauntingfamiliar said:
    ^ Ha ha! Just something I noticed when I went to a large arena show a few weeks ago. I took an Uber myself. The empty parking lots resonated with me and it reminded me how much things have changed. I do need to point out that even though the Uber made things convenient getting to the venue, it made it almost impossible to get back to the hotel. None were available until a solid hour, maybe longer after the show. And, the prices had quadrupled.
    I see- you ubered TO the venue.  I thought maybe ubering INTO a venue was some kind of metaphor. 

    Wasn't there something in the news about the guy who started up Uber running into some trouble?  Seems I heard something about that.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • goldrushgoldrush Posts: 7,542
    brianlux said:
    I asked this elsewhere and am curious about this sort of thing:   What are the top five things would would like to see change in the world of today's music?

    My top five:

    1. End "the loudness wars". A little compression goes a long ways. I see this as a problem for even some of my most favorite bands.

    2. Make vinyl more affordable again. I know... dream on. But what a fine dream! (Runner-up to this is make ticket prices more affordable.)

    3. Have the music industry and fans alike give artists the opportunity to develop. I read somewhere that there is still an inclination in the music industry to rapidly promote bands and musicians, grab quick money on a hit or two and spit them back out. I'm open to being educated on this if I am wrong, but this seems to me to be the case.

    4. Stop de-funding music education programs. This is not a universal problem but it does occur in many school districts. I'm not saying everyone should have to take music, but the creative arts do take a hit in many school districts. (This touches on my belief that it makes sense to let creative right-brained dominant students focus on creative arts if that's what they enjoy and logical left brained dominant students to focus on math or logic etc. if that's what they enjoy.)

    5. Desist from disparaging music that is not liked. A big bias of mine- if you don't like it, please don't berate it. Consider saying, "To me, that record sucks" instead of just, "That record sucks." I don't see anyone having the right to make a universal value judgement about any music just because they don't like it. Please make criticisms your personal take rather than a universal statement. Some of us actually like (for example) Pearl Jam's song "Come back".
    I'm definitely with you on point 5. I know I can be an elitist dick at times myself, but I really try not to just slate a band or a song just because it's not to my taste. There's already too much negativity and bitching - if you don't like something that's fine, move along. There have been a few times on this forum where I've commented about a band I love, only for the next comment to blast them. Not constructively, just "they suck". Whatever, I can't waste my time with that.

    I would also add:

    - Put an end to TV talent shows, at least in their current format. The Voice. X Factor. America/UK/Australia/Wherever's Got Talent etc. All we get is another round of aspiring artists who give us the same cover songs year in year out. I'm not debating whether they have good voices - a million other people do too - but how many covers of the same songs does the world really need? It also invariably turns into a shitty deal for the artists too - how many of them have gone onto have lasting careers, compared to how many shows there are? They sign up to shitty contracts and get told what to sing, before getting ditched when the next 'winner' comes along. I would love it if shows like these only focused on original material, not covers, to showcase songwriting ability.

    - I miss singles. Actual physical 7" singles that had new songs on them, or better still, non-album tracks. Granted it hasn't been the same since probably The Beatles or The Stones, where they would release singles that weren't included on their next albums, but it would be great to see again. I remember the surprise when Oasis released 'Whatever' and it wasn't taken from an album. It was fresh and felt like something out of the blue. Ideally more bands would 'do a Radiohead' and drop whole albums unannounced but that's probably too much to wish for.

    - I sometimes kinda wish we could put a stop to albums being leaked before they are released too. The same goes for streaming albums online. Of course I have downloaded leaked albums in the past if I just can't wait, but it always felt kind of hollow. I'm going to buy the thing anyway, why take the fun out of it? The simple pleasure of rummaging through racks, or queueing up before a store opens to get your hands on a new record is becoming lost in the new instant download world we live in.
    “Do not postpone happiness”
    (Jeff Tweedy, Sydney 2007)

    “Put yer good money on the sunrise”
    (Tim Rogers)
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,051
    goldrush said:
    brianlux said:
    I asked this elsewhere and am curious about this sort of thing:   What are the top five things would would like to see change in the world of today's music?

    My top five:

    1. End "the loudness wars". A little compression goes a long ways. I see this as a problem for even some of my most favorite bands.

    2. Make vinyl more affordable again. I know... dream on. But what a fine dream! (Runner-up to this is make ticket prices more affordable.)

    3. Have the music industry and fans alike give artists the opportunity to develop. I read somewhere that there is still an inclination in the music industry to rapidly promote bands and musicians, grab quick money on a hit or two and spit them back out. I'm open to being educated on this if I am wrong, but this seems to me to be the case.

    4. Stop de-funding music education programs. This is not a universal problem but it does occur in many school districts. I'm not saying everyone should have to take music, but the creative arts do take a hit in many school districts. (This touches on my belief that it makes sense to let creative right-brained dominant students focus on creative arts if that's what they enjoy and logical left brained dominant students to focus on math or logic etc. if that's what they enjoy.)

    5. Desist from disparaging music that is not liked. A big bias of mine- if you don't like it, please don't berate it. Consider saying, "To me, that record sucks" instead of just, "That record sucks." I don't see anyone having the right to make a universal value judgement about any music just because they don't like it. Please make criticisms your personal take rather than a universal statement. Some of us actually like (for example) Pearl Jam's song "Come back".
    I'm definitely with you on point 5. I know I can be an elitist dick at times myself, but I really try not to just slate a band or a song just because it's not to my taste. There's already too much negativity and bitching - if you don't like something that's fine, move along. There have been a few times on this forum where I've commented about a band I love, only for the next comment to blast them. Not constructively, just "they suck". Whatever, I can't waste my time with that.

    I would also add:

    - Put an end to TV talent shows, at least in their current format. The Voice. X Factor. America/UK/Australia/Wherever's Got Talent etc. All we get is another round of aspiring artists who give us the same cover songs year in year out. I'm not debating whether they have good voices - a million other people do too - but how many covers of the same songs does the world really need? It also invariably turns into a shitty deal for the artists too - how many of them have gone onto have lasting careers, compared to how many shows there are? They sign up to shitty contracts and get told what to sing, before getting ditched when the next 'winner' comes along. I would love it if shows like these only focused on original material, not covers, to showcase songwriting ability.

    - I miss singles. Actual physical 7" singles that had new songs on them, or better still, non-album tracks. Granted it hasn't been the same since probably The Beatles or The Stones, where they would release singles that weren't included on their next albums, but it would be great to see again. I remember the surprise when Oasis released 'Whatever' and it wasn't taken from an album. It was fresh and felt like something out of the blue. Ideally more bands would 'do a Radiohead' and drop whole albums unannounced but that's probably too much to wish for.

    - I sometimes kinda wish we could put a stop to albums being leaked before they are released too. The same goes for streaming albums online. Of course I have downloaded leaked albums in the past if I just can't wait, but it always felt kind of hollow. I'm going to buy the thing anyway, why take the fun out of it? The simple pleasure of rummaging through racks, or queueing up before a store opens to get your hands on a new record is becoming lost in the new instant download world we live in.
    Excellent ideas, every one!

    The TV talent shows you mentioned are a great example of how and why new talent is shoved forward, chewed up and spit out.  It's like the music industry in general suffers from borderline personality disorder (or what a psych prof I worked with once described as "suck-spitters).

    Yes, bring back the 7" single with great b-sides that for whatever reason didn't make the LP cut.  So many good ones at one time!

    I'm never even tempted to tune into a leaked album.  Delayed gratification always brings its rewards!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • ZodZod Posts: 10,590
    I always assumed the reason the record industry didn't spend time developing artists anymore is because there's not much of a payoff.    Back in the day record labels made a mint on selling albums.  So much so they could absorb it taking a few albums for a band to take off, or signing duds, and hedging it with more successful artists.

    I've read that record labels are now trying to take a % of merch and ticket sales to make up for the lack of album sales from new artists.   Something veteran artists didn't have to do.

    I'm torn.  Historically record labels (as greedy as they were) were responsible for finding and signing many of our favourate artists and music.   In the modern era there's always people saying there's great music out there, but it gets lost in the giant internet abyss.

    Here's my Top 5:

    1)  Eliminate Protools.    I miss the day of kickass front men with kickass voices.  Protools seems to muddle the vocals, and every new rock singer sounds like that last one.    When I was younger I could identify the band by the voice.   It's almost impossible to do that now.  I know there's some bands I like where the singer's voice isn't particularly strong, but most of my favourite bands had a unique voice.

    2) Eliminate the loudness wars - It might help with my above comments.     When I put on an old album from the early 90's or older they sound so much better.  Sometimes I wonder if the reason I loathe modern music is how that music is mastered.

    3) Ditch Record Labels and create a new platform for music.   I don't think record labels really work anymore.  They don't make much money.  They have limited interest on pushing rock music.   If they push anything it's looking for new hip hop or pop artists.  Stuff they can sell.    Maybe some entrepeneur could invent a website to promote new music.

    4) Stop increasing the cost of records.   I've been collecting records since I was in my teens.    I initially loved the vinyl resurgence but the cost of vinyl is skyrocketing.  Often it's $40 for new record now.   RSD prices on some live sets were over $60.  Crazy. 

    5) Another antitrust hearing for Ticketmaster/Live Nation.  It's beyond absurd at this point. 


  • 2-feign-reluctance2-feign-reluctance Posts: 23,308
    I think you picked all mine @brianlux !
    www.cluthelee.com
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,957
    1) I would like to see scalping erradicated completely. Technology can be used to do this (CC entry is only one option that works - if prepaid Visas could be used for that, people without credit could do it too). For those who just can't go to a show last minute, I wish all ticket sellers just gave the option for those people to return the tix right up until half an hour before a show, and then the seller could repost it for face value for those who want to buy last minute. Obviously changes like I'm suggesting would take legislation, so it ain't going to happen. But it would be nice. As for TM's own secondary ticket business... well that should already be illegal and I don't know why it's not.

    2) Legally mandatory availability of decent but affordable earplugs at all music venues (vending machines might be a good option)

    3) More (quality) record presses in North America so that the release of albums could speed up again

    4) Yes, of course, more affordable vinyl, although that can only happen with increased demand, so I don't see how this will be achieved unless the bands or someone starts advertising it a lot more in mainstream media or something so that the market is bigger than just the music obsessed and hipsters.

    5) Outlaw auto tune. Let the masses hear what their favorite pop stars REALLY sound like. :lol:
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,051
    Zod said:
    I always assumed the reason the record industry didn't spend time developing artists anymore is because there's not much of a payoff.    Back in the day record labels made a mint on selling albums.  So much so they could absorb it taking a few albums for a band to take off, or signing duds, and hedging it with more successful artists.

    I've read that record labels are now trying to take a % of merch and ticket sales to make up for the lack of album sales from new artists.   Something veteran artists didn't have to do.

    I'm torn.  Historically record labels (as greedy as they were) were responsible for finding and signing many of our favourate artists and music.   In the modern era there's always people saying there's great music out there, but it gets lost in the giant internet abyss.

    Here's my Top 5:

    1)  Eliminate Protools.    I miss the day of kickass front men with kickass voices.  Protools seems to muddle the vocals, and every new rock singer sounds like that last one.    When I was younger I could identify the band by the voice.   It's almost impossible to do that now.  I know there's some bands I like where the singer's voice isn't particularly strong, but most of my favourite bands had a unique voice.

    2) Eliminate the loudness wars - It might help with my above comments.     When I put on an old album from the early 90's or older they sound so much better.  Sometimes I wonder if the reason I loathe modern music is how that music is mastered.

    3) Ditch Record Labels and create a new platform for music.   I don't think record labels really work anymore.  They don't make much money.  They have limited interest on pushing rock music.   If they push anything it's looking for new hip hop or pop artists.  Stuff they can sell.    Maybe some entrepeneur could invent a website to promote new music.

    4) Stop increasing the cost of records.   I've been collecting records since I was in my teens.    I initially loved the vinyl resurgence but the cost of vinyl is skyrocketing.  Often it's $40 for new record now.   RSD prices on some live sets were over $60.  Crazy. 

    5) Another antitrust hearing for Ticketmaster/Live Nation.  It's beyond absurd at this point. 


    Not sure I'd ditch the labels but I could be persuaded to the logic of what you're saying, Zod

    1,2,4,5,  :plus_one:
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,051
    PJ_Soul said:
    1) I would like to see scalping erradicated completely. Technology can be used to do this (CC entry is only one option that works - if prepaid Visas could be used for that, people without credit could do it too). For those who just can't go to a show last minute, I wish all ticket sellers just gave the option for those people to return the tix right up until half an hour before a show, and then the seller could repost it for face value for those who want to buy last minute. Obviously changes like I'm suggesting would take legislation, so it ain't going to happen. But it would be nice. As for TM's own secondary ticket business... well that should already be illegal and I don't know why it's not.

    2) Legally mandatory availability of decent but affordable earplugs at all music venues (vending machines might be a good option)

    3) More (quality) record presses in North America so that the release of albums could speed up again

    4) Yes, of course, more affordable vinyl, although that can only happen with increased demand, so I don't see how this will be achieved unless the bands or someone starts advertising it a lot more in mainstream media or something so that the market is bigger than just the music obsessed and hipsters.

    5) Outlaw auto tune. Let the masses hear what their favorite pop stars REALLY sound like. :lol:
    Great suggestions, PJ_S! 

    And if you ever see me at another show (or any place loud for that matter) I always carry an extra pack of fresh ear plugs or two! :smile:
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    No changes needed or wanted here.  I've found, and continue to find, beauty in random spots.  Somehow when mediocrity prevails, purity shines.

    Some I DO consider shit and when I state as much, I'd hope those who read my much-esteemed opinion (insert requisite "haha!") know that it is indeed my own pissant view...neither judge nor jury.  But yeah, no worries thinking or saying that some are nowhere near worthy of the creaming from their fans.

    I guess what I want, love, need,, whether musically or personally or poetically or lyrically - is sincerity and purity in what is brought forth.

    Give me that, and it will be returned...must be.  

    (hell, even if you don't give me that, I'll still bring honesty in interaction...anything less would be cheating, in a way)
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,051
    ^^^
    "Honest is the best policy" may be a cliché, but clichés are what they are because they are so true and this is a good one.

    "I have no time for lies or fantasy, and neither should you."
    -John Joseph Lydon


    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,957
    My 6th would just be for more musicians to be able to earn a living with their craft. That is too complicated an issue for me to offer details, since I basically wouldn't know what I'm talking about. But artists certainly do gripe about it a lot and have plenty of ideas that don't destroy streaming services.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • lexicondevillexicondevil Posts: 2,062
    I would like preorders to end, specifically vinyl preorders. Yes, I can technically not preorder and just wait, but then I automatically miss out on vinyl variants. It would be magical if an order went up and shipped within a couple weeks. Too much to ask for, I know.

    In some ways I'm looking forward to the inevitable collapse of the vinyl craze. Not extinction, but at least back to the late 80's. Then I will buy all of these overpriced records for cheap. The record buying kids will grow up and realize that they want to buy a house and their spouse is telling them they need a Subaru to take their kids to school. so they must sell their collection that they never really listen to anyway. I will be there with my turntable just waiting.
    1991- Hollywood Palladium, California with Temple of the Dog, Soundgarden, and Alice in Chains -RIP Magazine Show Oct. 6th
    1992- Lollapalooza, Irvine, California
    Nothing since then. I suck.
    2016- Fenway Park, Boston - Both glorious nights
    2022- Oakland Night 2
    2024 Sacramento, CA
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,051
    PJ_Soul said:
    My 6th would just be for more musicians to be able to earn a living with their craft. That is too complicated an issue for me to offer details, since I basically wouldn't know what I'm talking about. But artists certainly do gripe about it a lot and have plenty of ideas that don't destroy streaming services.
    OMG, yes.  I don't like to talk about other people's finances without their permission so putting it generically, I have a friend in a band who put out a record in the 2000's that J Mascis said he thought was the best record anyone put out that year.  This friend makes very little money from making music.  It's freaking horrible.  Unless you are a big name, it's damn near impossible to make a living making music.  Really, really sad.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,957
    brianlux said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    My 6th would just be for more musicians to be able to earn a living with their craft. That is too complicated an issue for me to offer details, since I basically wouldn't know what I'm talking about. But artists certainly do gripe about it a lot and have plenty of ideas that don't destroy streaming services.
    OMG, yes.  I don't like to talk about other people's finances without their permission so putting it generically, I have a friend in a band who put out a record in the 2000's that J Mascis said he thought was the best record anyone put out that year.  This friend makes very little money from making music.  It's freaking horrible.  Unless you are a big name, it's damn near impossible to make a living making music.  Really, really sad.
    What was the album Brian?? If you don't want to say publicly, maybe PM me? I'd love to find it and give it a listen!
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • elvistheking44elvistheking44 Posts: 4,409
    brianlux said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    My 6th would just be for more musicians to be able to earn a living with their craft. That is too complicated an issue for me to offer details, since I basically wouldn't know what I'm talking about. But artists certainly do gripe about it a lot and have plenty of ideas that don't destroy streaming services.
    OMG, yes.  I don't like to talk about other people's finances without their permission so putting it generically, I have a friend in a band who put out a record in the 2000's that J Mascis said he thought was the best record anyone put out that year.  This friend makes very little money from making music.  It's freaking horrible.  Unless you are a big name, it's damn near impossible to make a living making music.  Really, really sad.
    Don't most go into the music business knowing this?  I chose an art career full aware that I'd be struggling until I became a "big name".
    I wouldn't change a thing.  I love how easy it is to access new music.  I love that I can download music.  I love that I can get vinyl if I want it. I  love how an upcoming artist can put his or her stuff out there for the world to see in a matter of minutes.  I love how television shows can open up a possibility for someone.  I love that the digital aspect is involved.  It's evolution baby.

  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,957
    edited May 2017
    elvistheking44 said:
    brianlux said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    My 6th would just be for more musicians to be able to earn a living with their craft. That is too complicated an issue for me to offer details, since I basically wouldn't know what I'm talking about. But artists certainly do gripe about it a lot and have plenty of ideas that don't destroy streaming services.
    OMG, yes.  I don't like to talk about other people's finances without their permission so putting it generically, I have a friend in a band who put out a record in the 2000's that J Mascis said he thought was the best record anyone put out that year.  This friend makes very little money from making music.  It's freaking horrible.  Unless you are a big name, it's damn near impossible to make a living making music.  Really, really sad.
    Don't most go into the music business knowing this?  I chose an art career full aware that I'd be struggling until I became a "big name".
    I wouldn't change a thing.  I love how easy it is to access new music.  I love that I can download music.  I love that I can get vinyl if I want it. I  love how an upcoming artist can put his or her stuff out there for the world to see in a matter of minutes.  I love how television shows can open up a possibility for someone.  I love that the digital aspect is involved.  It's evolution baby.

    I don't see how knowing it when they go into is the point. They go into it because they have a passion and a talent and something to give the world. They SHOULD get paid enough to support themselves simply because they are worth it to society. They have a very special and important role in culture and society, and aren't fairly compensated. That they know they may not hit it rich is neither here nor there. It isn't at all fair that musicians struggle so much financially no matter what. Also, many musicians do indeed drop their dreams and don't pursue that career because they can't support themselves or their families otherwise. I HATE to imagine what kind of amazing music we have lost because of this. I am actually really surprised that you, as an artist, do not support a better structure in the industry so that artists who can find an audience are supported adequately. Accepting shit instead of striving for fairness isn't something that we should be cool with, even if it is the current state of affairs.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    An audience doesn't necessarily equate to monetary compensation.  Is it about the art itself, creating and sharing it, or making money off of it?  Shit, look at Mozart.  Few saw his true talent at the time, and his dead body was thrown into a ditch, a paltry grave.  That doesn't mean his music wasn't / isn't still loved, appreciated, and then some.  That's more valuable than the bucks, no?  What exactly is compensation - fair compensation, and by whose standards - when it comes to the arts or anything else, really?

    I'd love to spend my days ensconced in painting, but my realistic self says, nope - do it when you can or want, but don't depend on it to pay your mortgage.  I wouldn't expect it to, and certainly wouldn't try to make that my main source of income if I had children.

    Pretty common sense.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,957
    An audience SHOULD equate to monetary compensation. That's what I'm saying. Of course the art isn't (or shouldn't be) about money, but musicians deserve to not be forces to live in poverty. Earning enough to support oneself and/or their family does not erode the intrinsic value of the art unless it starts controlling the art. Simply being able to pay rent and buy food is a reasonable expectation for ANYONE who contributes positively to society in some way on a full time basis. I say the same thing about every single other person on the planet who works, no matter what they are doing. I don't see why artists should be the exception, nor do I think we should expect artists to reduce that work to a hobby. We need full time artists in this world.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • elvistheking44elvistheking44 Posts: 4,409
    PJ_Soul said:
    An audience SHOULD equate to monetary compensation. That's what I'm saying. Of course the art isn't (or shouldn't be) about money, but musicians deserve to not be forces to live in poverty. Earning enough to support oneself and/or their family does not erode the intrinsic value of the art unless it starts controlling the art. Simply being able to pay rent and buy food is a reasonable expectation for ANYONE who contributes positively to society in some way on a full time basis. I say the same thing about every single other person on the planet who works, no matter what they are doing. I don't see why artists should be the exception, nor do I think we should expect artists to reduce that work to a hobby. We need full time artists in this world.
    Where do you expect this monetary compensation to come from?  If an artist is struggling, you do what you can to make your ends meet.  Thats life, if you chose to only make your art and do no other work...........well I guess you chose to live in poverty.  Thats how the real world works.  If I wanted to be a bank teller, but couldn't find work I wouldn't expect to be compensated just because I have passion for it, and love it.  I'd expect to find a different job until I could be a bank teller.......
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,957
    elvistheking44 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    An audience SHOULD equate to monetary compensation. That's what I'm saying. Of course the art isn't (or shouldn't be) about money, but musicians deserve to not be forces to live in poverty. Earning enough to support oneself and/or their family does not erode the intrinsic value of the art unless it starts controlling the art. Simply being able to pay rent and buy food is a reasonable expectation for ANYONE who contributes positively to society in some way on a full time basis. I say the same thing about every single other person on the planet who works, no matter what they are doing. I don't see why artists should be the exception, nor do I think we should expect artists to reduce that work to a hobby. We need full time artists in this world.
    Where do you expect this monetary compensation to come from?  If an artist is struggling, you do what you can to make your ends meet.  Thats life, if you chose to only make your art and do no other work...........well I guess you chose to live in poverty.  Thats how the real world works.  If I wanted to be a bank teller, but couldn't find work I wouldn't expect to be compensated just because I have passion for it, and love it.  I'd expect to find a different job until I could be a bank teller.......
    But that isn't the same situation at all. We're talking about WORKING artists, not unemployed ones. Not being able to find a job isn't the same as doing a job and not getting compensated fairly.
    I would expect the monetary compensation to come from music sales obviously. That's why we're talking about this in the 'things you'd change about the music industry'. My suggestion is the music industry sort its shit out so that it works better for the artists. I also said I wouldn't go into details because I'm not informed enough to. However, there are TONS of current music artists who are fighting this battle - they have plenty of ideas.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer Posts: 16,443
    1. End censorship
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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Posts: 36,987
    PJ_Soul said:
    elvistheking44 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    An audience SHOULD equate to monetary compensation. That's what I'm saying. Of course the art isn't (or shouldn't be) about money, but musicians deserve to not be forces to live in poverty. Earning enough to support oneself and/or their family does not erode the intrinsic value of the art unless it starts controlling the art. Simply being able to pay rent and buy food is a reasonable expectation for ANYONE who contributes positively to society in some way on a full time basis. I say the same thing about every single other person on the planet who works, no matter what they are doing. I don't see why artists should be the exception, nor do I think we should expect artists to reduce that work to a hobby. We need full time artists in this world.
    Where do you expect this monetary compensation to come from?  If an artist is struggling, you do what you can to make your ends meet.  Thats life, if you chose to only make your art and do no other work...........well I guess you chose to live in poverty.  Thats how the real world works.  If I wanted to be a bank teller, but couldn't find work I wouldn't expect to be compensated just because I have passion for it, and love it.  I'd expect to find a different job until I could be a bank teller.......
    But that isn't the same situation at all. We're talking about WORKING artists, not unemployed ones. Not being able to find a job isn't the same as doing a job and not getting compensated fairly.
    I would expect the monetary compensation to come from music sales obviously. That's why we're talking about this in the 'things you'd change about the music industry'. My suggestion is the music industry sort its shit out so that it works better for the artists. I also said I wouldn't go into details because I'm not informed enough to. However, there are TONS of current music artists who are fighting this battle - they have plenty of ideas.
    well, in a sense, it is the same thing. an artist, while they don't have a specific employer, they are independent contractors that get hired based on their perceived potential financial value to the contractee. no different than anyone else who goes into business for themselves, and either they succeed and do more, or they don't and do something else. 

    as a musician who has never even considered doing it professionally, it sucks. as it is such a minute probability of being able to live off your passion, but that's no different than anyone else who starts a business. the large majority of new businesses fail within the first two years. should we "fairly compensate" them too because they are providing a service to the community, even though it's not financially viable in the marketplace?

    there are a LOT of musicians who, many of us believe, should succeed, yet they don't. if there isn't a demand for that type of music/art, or they haven't figured out the business side in order to promote themselves properly, who are we to say "well they should be paid anyway", and what is "fair"?

    I do believe there should always be public funds for the arts. But I don't think people should just be able to say "I'm an artist" and collect a paycheque if they put their art out every once in a while. I mean, if no one is being entertained (3 drunks in a pub on a wednesday night, for example), then what is the actual value then anyway?
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

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  • elvistheking44elvistheking44 Posts: 4,409
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    elvistheking44 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    An audience SHOULD equate to monetary compensation. That's what I'm saying. Of course the art isn't (or shouldn't be) about money, but musicians deserve to not be forces to live in poverty. Earning enough to support oneself and/or their family does not erode the intrinsic value of the art unless it starts controlling the art. Simply being able to pay rent and buy food is a reasonable expectation for ANYONE who contributes positively to society in some way on a full time basis. I say the same thing about every single other person on the planet who works, no matter what they are doing. I don't see why artists should be the exception, nor do I think we should expect artists to reduce that work to a hobby. We need full time artists in this world.
    Where do you expect this monetary compensation to come from?  If an artist is struggling, you do what you can to make your ends meet.  Thats life, if you chose to only make your art and do no other work...........well I guess you chose to live in poverty.  Thats how the real world works.  If I wanted to be a bank teller, but couldn't find work I wouldn't expect to be compensated just because I have passion for it, and love it.  I'd expect to find a different job until I could be a bank teller.......
    But that isn't the same situation at all. We're talking about WORKING artists, not unemployed ones. Not being able to find a job isn't the same as doing a job and not getting compensated fairly.
    I would expect the monetary compensation to come from music sales obviously. That's why we're talking about this in the 'things you'd change about the music industry'. My suggestion is the music industry sort its shit out so that it works better for the artists. I also said I wouldn't go into details because I'm not informed enough to. However, there are TONS of current music artists who are fighting this battle - they have plenty of ideas.
    well, in a sense, it is the same thing. an artist, while they don't have a specific employer, they are independent contractors that get hired based on their perceived potential financial value to the contractee. no different than anyone else who goes into business for themselves, and either they succeed and do more, or they don't and do something else. 

    as a musician who has never even considered doing it professionally, it sucks. as it is such a minute probability of being able to live off your passion, but that's no different than anyone else who starts a business. the large majority of new businesses fail within the first two years. should we "fairly compensate" them too because they are providing a service to the community, even though it's not financially viable in the marketplace?

    there are a LOT of musicians who, many of us believe, should succeed, yet they don't. if there isn't a demand for that type of music/art, or they haven't figured out the business side in order to promote themselves properly, who are we to say "well they should be paid anyway", and what is "fair"?

    I do believe there should always be public funds for the arts. But I don't think people should just be able to say "I'm an artist" and collect a paycheque if they put their art out every once in a while. I mean, if no one is being entertained (3 drunks in a pub on a wednesday night, for example), then what is the actual value then anyway?
    Bingo 
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