Who here actually voted in the POTUS race ?

Free

CM189191 said:

jeffbr said:

CM189191 said:

jeffbr said:

CM189191 said:

jeffbr said:

CM189191 said:

Free said:

oceaninmyeyes said:

That majority there in the green? That's third party voting. But everybody blames third-party voters, meanwhile this election had the best number of third-party voters in history. Because the other two idiots with the least popular candidates in history.

Yet, continue to blame us because we don't fall into your neat 2-party, status quo category.

do you even math?
Gary Johnson & Jill Stein combined got less than 5% of the vote. Pretty sure that qualifies as the least popular candidates in history.

And yes, 3rd party voters are partly to blame for this debacle. It's like you saved up your money, bought a flight and reserved a weekend in Vegas to bet on the Superbowl. And when you got there, you decided you didn't like the Patriots or the Falcons and decided to bet on Manchester United to win.

Sorry, third party voters don't get off that easy. They're just as culpable for the situation we find ourselves in. Probably more so, because most 3rd party supporters I meet are relatively informed voters. It's like they knew better, but decided to watch the world burn anyways.

Disagree. Trump voters, and those who didn't vote are responsible for Trump's win. You said yourself that Johnson made up a very small percentage.

I live in a solid Red state, and there was no question that Hillary was taking our state. Because of that I voted 3rd party. My vote mattered not one bit in the race between Trump and Clinton, which is why I felt comfortable doing so.

How is that disagreeing? You had the luxury of throwing your vote away, so you did?

I didn't throw my vote away. Do you define throwing your vote away as not voting for the ultimate winner? If so, then all of the Hillary voters threw their votes away, too. I voted my conscience. If I thought a vote for Hillary would have resulted in a defeat for Trump I would have thrown my vote away to Hillary. I voted, and bear absolutely zero responsibility for Hillary's loss. So yes, I disagree with your false premise.

The entire system is set up so that voters choose one of the two major party candidates to be president. Voting third party essentially says: “I don’t care who becomes president, and I’m going to let other voters decide for me.”

Third party voters always talk about how they’re tired of choosing between the “lesser of two evils”—well, in American democracy, that’s what voting is. America is not a Multi-party Democracy, and your third party candidate is never going to win. Grown-ups have to make hard choices and accept less-than-thrilling results every single day in life, and democracy is no different.

Amazing how your logic went from "every vote counts and I voted my conscience" to " I bear absolutely zero responsibility" in less than 3 sentences. What kind of mental gymnastics is that?

The mental gymnastics that are required to keep up with your bizarre premises and moving targets. Where did I say every vote counts? I implied that my vote didn't count. Hillary had my state locked up. I could have abstained, I could have voted for Trump, I could have voted for Hillary, I could have voted for Johnson, or I could have voted for Stein and the result in my state would have been exactly the same. I specifically recognized that my vote didn't matter, and was free to "send a message". I also specifically said that had I thought my vote would have mattered, I'd have thrown it to Hillary, who was definitely the lesser of two evils. So you can continue to play your game and make wild assertions about what I said (even when I didn't say it), but your premise that third party voters ushered Trump into office is false. Quit taking plays from Kellyanne's alternative facts book.

I am not saying it is 100% 3rd party voters fault Trump got elected.
But it certainly is not 0%. 3rd party voters try to get away with this "don't blame me, I didn't actually participate in the election that was happening" crap, and I'm not buying it.

Continue to seek blame by blaming others. This mindframe of Dems is so stinky, that you guys are just convincing America that the party of democracy is nothing but a bunch of sore losers. Except for Warren, there's not one Dem w/ balls enough to fight for actual democracy.

tbergs

How does one for sure determine that either candidate has their state locked up? Let's say thousands (or millions) of people all determine this same preconceived ideal and therefore vote to send a message, couldn't that also be why Trump (or insert least desirable candidate here) would win? It would be the same logic all of those who didn't vote used because they thought their candidate had it locked up. There are no guarantees and this election proved that.

I'd like to support the 3rd party movement and the reasoning behind it, but I worry about things like Trump happening. In order for anything besides a D or an R to matter there would need to be an overhaul to our election system and until then I won't vote for a candidate that isn't allowed to start the race until they've already been lapped 5 times.

jeffbr

CM189191 said:

jeffbr said:

CM189191 said:

jeffbr said:

CM189191 said:

jeffbr said:

CM189191 said:

Free said:

oceaninmyeyes said:

That majority there in the green? That's third party voting. But everybody blames third-party voters, meanwhile this election had the best number of third-party voters in history. Because the other two idiots with the least popular candidates in history.

Yet, continue to blame us because we don't fall into your neat 2-party, status quo category.

do you even math?
Gary Johnson & Jill Stein combined got less than 5% of the vote. Pretty sure that qualifies as the least popular candidates in history.

And yes, 3rd party voters are partly to blame for this debacle. It's like you saved up your money, bought a flight and reserved a weekend in Vegas to bet on the Superbowl. And when you got there, you decided you didn't like the Patriots or the Falcons and decided to bet on Manchester United to win.

Sorry, third party voters don't get off that easy. They're just as culpable for the situation we find ourselves in. Probably more so, because most 3rd party supporters I meet are relatively informed voters. It's like they knew better, but decided to watch the world burn anyways.

Disagree. Trump voters, and those who didn't vote are responsible for Trump's win. You said yourself that Johnson made up a very small percentage.

I live in a solid Red state, and there was no question that Hillary was taking our state. Because of that I voted 3rd party. My vote mattered not one bit in the race between Trump and Clinton, which is why I felt comfortable doing so.

How is that disagreeing? You had the luxury of throwing your vote away, so you did?

I didn't throw my vote away. Do you define throwing your vote away as not voting for the ultimate winner? If so, then all of the Hillary voters threw their votes away, too. I voted my conscience. If I thought a vote for Hillary would have resulted in a defeat for Trump I would have thrown my vote away to Hillary. I voted, and bear absolutely zero responsibility for Hillary's loss. So yes, I disagree with your false premise.

The entire system is set up so that voters choose one of the two major party candidates to be president. Voting third party essentially says: “I don’t care who becomes president, and I’m going to let other voters decide for me.”

Third party voters always talk about how they’re tired of choosing between the “lesser of two evils”—well, in American democracy, that’s what voting is. America is not a Multi-party Democracy, and your third party candidate is never going to win. Grown-ups have to make hard choices and accept less-than-thrilling results every single day in life, and democracy is no different.

Amazing how your logic went from "every vote counts and I voted my conscience" to " I bear absolutely zero responsibility" in less than 3 sentences. What kind of mental gymnastics is that?

The mental gymnastics that are required to keep up with your bizarre premises and moving targets. Where did I say every vote counts? I implied that my vote didn't count. Hillary had my state locked up. I could have abstained, I could have voted for Trump, I could have voted for Hillary, I could have voted for Johnson, or I could have voted for Stein and the result in my state would have been exactly the same. I specifically recognized that my vote didn't matter, and was free to "send a message". I also specifically said that had I thought my vote would have mattered, I'd have thrown it to Hillary, who was definitely the lesser of two evils. So you can continue to play your game and make wild assertions about what I said (even when I didn't say it), but your premise that third party voters ushered Trump into office is false. Quit taking plays from Kellyanne's alternative facts book.

I am not saying it is 100% 3rd party voters fault Trump got elected.
But it certainly is not 0%. 3rd party voters try to get away with this "don't blame me, I didn't actually participate in the election that was happening" crap, and I'm not buying it.

I did participate in the election, so I'm not sure what crap you aren't buying. I'm so very sorry that you don't approve of the way I exercise my democracy, and use my vote. I'll remind you that the president is elected by the Electoral College, not by individual votes cast. My state went roughly 52% Hillary to Trump's 36%. The Democratic electors from my state were all supposed to cast their ballots for Hillary. There were 4 who defected, 3 of whom cast their electoral college votes for Colin Powell and 1 who cast a vote for Faith Spotted Eagle. Those 4 were democrat party activists or otherwise very engaged, and still threw their votes. Perhaps you should be looking their way instead of blaming insignificant numbers of individual voters who had no ability to affect the outcome. Your derision is very misguided, but I do hope that it makes you feel better.

rgambs

Free said:

rgambs said:

Free said:

rgambs said:

Free said:

Duh, I was referring to the pie chart that was posted?

So you stand by your suggestion that 71 million people voted 3rd party?

Gee, did I say that I did I say I was referring to a graphic that was posted? Did I say that was true?

You said the green was 3rd party voters. That would be 71 million 3rd party votes.
You were asked if you math.
You ignored the question in favor of your usual spiel.
I asked if you stand by it or refute it and your response, I don't understand.

Are you having trouble comprehending?

oceaninmyeyes said:

Apparently I am. You said the green slice of the pie is 3rd party voters, bullshit was called, and from there I can't make sense of what you are getting at.

PJfanwillneverleave1

How do you become a member of the Electoral College is it by vote?

Free

rgambs said:

Free said:

rgambs said:

Free said:

rgambs said:

Free said:

Duh, I was referring to the pie chart that was posted?

So you stand by your suggestion that 71 million people voted 3rd party?

Gee, did I say that I did I say I was referring to a graphic that was posted? Did I say that was true?

You said the green was 3rd party voters. That would be 71 million 3rd party votes.
You were asked if you math.
You ignored the question in favor of your usual spiel.
I asked if you stand by it or refute it and your response, I don't understand.

Are you having trouble comprehending?

oceaninmyeyes said:

Apparently I am. You said the green slice of the pie is 3rd party voters, bullshit was called, and from there I can't make sense of what you are getting at.

If you have a problem with the graphic, call upon the source.

Go Beavers

Free said:

rgambs said:

Free said:

rgambs said:

Free said:

rgambs said:

Free said:

Duh, I was referring to the pie chart that was posted?

So you stand by your suggestion that 71 million people voted 3rd party?

Gee, did I say that I did I say I was referring to a graphic that was posted? Did I say that was true?

You said the green was 3rd party voters. That would be 71 million 3rd party votes.
You were asked if you math.
You ignored the question in favor of your usual spiel.
I asked if you stand by it or refute it and your response, I don't understand.

Are you having trouble comprehending?

oceaninmyeyes said:

Apparently I am. You said the green slice of the pie is 3rd party voters, bullshit was called, and from there I can't make sense of what you are getting at.

If you have a problem with the graphic, call upon the source.

The graphic is fine. It's showing the percenatge who didn't vote/voted third party.

Free

jeffbr said:

CM189191 said:

jeffbr said:

CM189191 said:

jeffbr said:

CM189191 said:

jeffbr said:

CM189191 said:

Free said:

oceaninmyeyes said:

That majority there in the green? That's third party voting. But everybody blames third-party voters, meanwhile this election had the best number of third-party voters in history. Because the other two idiots with the least popular candidates in history.

Yet, continue to blame us because we don't fall into your neat 2-party, status quo category.

do you even math?
Gary Johnson & Jill Stein combined got less than 5% of the vote. Pretty sure that qualifies as the least popular candidates in history.

And yes, 3rd party voters are partly to blame for this debacle. It's like you saved up your money, bought a flight and reserved a weekend in Vegas to bet on the Superbowl. And when you got there, you decided you didn't like the Patriots or the Falcons and decided to bet on Manchester United to win.

Sorry, third party voters don't get off that easy. They're just as culpable for the situation we find ourselves in. Probably more so, because most 3rd party supporters I meet are relatively informed voters. It's like they knew better, but decided to watch the world burn anyways.

Disagree. Trump voters, and those who didn't vote are responsible for Trump's win. You said yourself that Johnson made up a very small percentage.

I live in a solid Red state, and there was no question that Hillary was taking our state. Because of that I voted 3rd party. My vote mattered not one bit in the race between Trump and Clinton, which is why I felt comfortable doing so.

How is that disagreeing? You had the luxury of throwing your vote away, so you did?

I didn't throw my vote away. Do you define throwing your vote away as not voting for the ultimate winner? If so, then all of the Hillary voters threw their votes away, too. I voted my conscience. If I thought a vote for Hillary would have resulted in a defeat for Trump I would have thrown my vote away to Hillary. I voted, and bear absolutely zero responsibility for Hillary's loss. So yes, I disagree with your false premise.

The entire system is set up so that voters choose one of the two major party candidates to be president. Voting third party essentially says: “I don’t care who becomes president, and I’m going to let other voters decide for me.”

Third party voters always talk about how they’re tired of choosing between the “lesser of two evils”—well, in American democracy, that’s what voting is. America is not a Multi-party Democracy, and your third party candidate is never going to win. Grown-ups have to make hard choices and accept less-than-thrilling results every single day in life, and democracy is no different.

Amazing how your logic went from "every vote counts and I voted my conscience" to " I bear absolutely zero responsibility" in less than 3 sentences. What kind of mental gymnastics is that?

The mental gymnastics that are required to keep up with your bizarre premises and moving targets. Where did I say every vote counts? I implied that my vote didn't count. Hillary had my state locked up. I could have abstained, I could have voted for Trump, I could have voted for Hillary, I could have voted for Johnson, or I could have voted for Stein and the result in my state would have been exactly the same. I specifically recognized that my vote didn't matter, and was free to "send a message". I also specifically said that had I thought my vote would have mattered, I'd have thrown it to Hillary, who was definitely the lesser of two evils. So you can continue to play your game and make wild assertions about what I said (even when I didn't say it), but your premise that third party voters ushered Trump into office is false. Quit taking plays from Kellyanne's alternative facts book.

I am not saying it is 100% 3rd party voters fault Trump got elected.
But it certainly is not 0%. 3rd party voters try to get away with this "don't blame me, I didn't actually participate in the election that was happening" crap, and I'm not buying it.

I did participate in the election, so I'm not sure what crap you aren't buying. I'm so very sorry that you don't approve of the way I exercise my democracy, and use my vote. I'll remind you that the president is elected by the Electoral College, not by individual votes cast. My state went roughly 52% Hillary to Trump's 36%. The Democratic electors from my state were all supposed to cast their ballots for Hillary. There were 4 who defected, 3 of whom cast their electoral college votes for Colin Powell and 1 who cast a vote for Faith Spotted Eagle. Those 4 were democrat party activists or otherwise very engaged, and still threw their votes. Perhaps you should be looking their way instead of blaming insignificant numbers of individual voters who had no ability to affect the outcome. Your derision is very misguided, but I do hope that it makes you feel better.

It's interesting that those of us who vote w/ our conscience are all always "bothering" others who are trying endlessly to push others to vote "their way". Ever notice that? You've got an entire group of people using their right to vote as they choose, which is the way it should be, and another group ultimately convinced that if others don't do it THEIR way, they caused their candidate to lose. And then they play the victim card.

HesCalledDyer

Stop playing the blame game. No one who voted 3rd party wanted Donald Trump to be President. If they did, they would've voted for Donald Trump. Blaming 3rd party voters for Trump winning is not only wrong, it's toxic. Voting 3rd party is not "throwing your vote away." Third party candidates are never going to get the national recognition they should get IF WE DON'T VOTE FOR THEM. I don't know why this is so hard to understand. I'll say it again - I REFUSE to use my free and constitutional right to vote for someone simply to use it as a vote against the other guy. I will ONLY ever vote FOR someone I believe in the most. I'm done with the lesser of two evils shit. Don't tell me how I should have voted (i.e. making it obligation instead of a right) and don't blame me because Trump is in office. We went through this same song & dance in 2000 with Nader voters and it got us nowhere. Please, just stop with the blame. This is on nobody but those who voted for Donald Trump.

tbergs

HesCalledDyer said:

Stop playing the blame game. No one who voted 3rd party wanted Donald Trump to be President. If they did, they would've voted for Donald Trump. Blaming 3rd party voters for Trump winning is not only wrong, it's toxic. Voting 3rd party is not "throwing your vote away." Third party candidates are never going to get the national recognition they should get IF WE DON'T VOTE FOR THEM. I don't know why this is so hard to understand. I'll say it again - I REFUSE to use my free and constitutional right to vote for someone simply to use it as a vote against the other guy. I will ONLY ever vote FOR someone I believe in the most. I'm done with the lesser of two evils shit. Don't tell me how I should have voted (i.e. making it obligation instead of a right) and don't blame me because Trump is in office. We went through this same song & dance in 2000 with Nader voters and it got us nowhere. Please, just stop with the blame. This is on nobody but those who voted for Donald Trump.

And those who chose not to vote. I mostly blame them.

Bentleyspop

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

How do you become a member of the Electoral College is it by vote?

www.google.com

rgambs

HesCalledDyer said:

Stop playing the blame game. No one who voted 3rd party wanted Donald Trump to be President. If they did, they would've voted for Donald Trump. Blaming 3rd party voters for Trump winning is not only wrong, it's toxic. Voting 3rd party is not "throwing your vote away." Third party candidates are never going to get the national recognition they should get IF WE DON'T VOTE FOR THEM. I don't know why this is so hard to understand. I'll say it again - I REFUSE to use my free and constitutional right to vote for someone simply to use it as a vote against the other guy. I will ONLY ever vote FOR someone I believe in the most. I'm done with the lesser of two evils shit. Don't tell me how I should have voted (i.e. making it obligation instead of a right) and don't blame me because Trump is in office. We went through this same song & dance in 2000 with Nader voters and it got us nowhere. Please, just stop with the blame. This is on nobody but those who voted for Donald Trump.

Dance, dance, dance the blame away.
The POTUS was bound by all measure of rational thought to be either Clinton or Trump.
You voted for someone you knew beyond a shadow of a doubt couldn't win, so you own partial responsibility for the outcome, unless you live in one of the states where the outcome is certain.

tbergs

For those who voted 3rd party, did any of you do so thinking that Trump would win? I've heard several say, they knew Clinton was going to win their state so they were ok going 3rd party. With that said, I think it's clear that nothing is certain.

Free

rgambs said:

HesCalledDyer said:

Stop playing the blame game. No one who voted 3rd party wanted Donald Trump to be President. If they did, they would've voted for Donald Trump. Blaming 3rd party voters for Trump winning is not only wrong, it's toxic. Voting 3rd party is not "throwing your vote away." Third party candidates are never going to get the national recognition they should get IF WE DON'T VOTE FOR THEM. I don't know why this is so hard to understand. I'll say it again - I REFUSE to use my free and constitutional right to vote for someone simply to use it as a vote against the other guy. I will ONLY ever vote FOR someone I believe in the most. I'm done with the lesser of two evils shit. Don't tell me how I should have voted (i.e. making it obligation instead of a right) and don't blame me because Trump is in office. We went through this same song & dance in 2000 with Nader voters and it got us nowhere. Please, just stop with the blame. This is on nobody but those who voted for Donald Trump.

Dance, dance, dance the blame away.
The POTUS was bound by all measure of rational thought to be either Clinton or Trump.
You voted for someone you knew beyond a shadow of a doubt couldn't win, so you own partial responsibility for the outcome, unless you live in one of the states where the outcome is certain.

Speaking of blame…

Free said:

jeffbr said:

CM189191 said:

jeffbr said:

CM189191 said:

jeffbr said:

CM189191 said:

jeffbr said:

CM189191 said:

Free said:

oceaninmyeyes said:

That majority there in the green? That's third party voting. But everybody blames third-party voters, meanwhile this election had the best number of third-party voters in history. Because the other two idiots with the least popular candidates in history.

Yet, continue to blame us because we don't fall into your neat 2-party, status quo category.

do you even math?
Gary Johnson & Jill Stein combined got less than 5% of the vote. Pretty sure that qualifies as the least popular candidates in history.

And yes, 3rd party voters are partly to blame for this debacle. It's like you saved up your money, bought a flight and reserved a weekend in Vegas to bet on the Superbowl. And when you got there, you decided you didn't like the Patriots or the Falcons and decided to bet on Manchester United to win.

Sorry, third party voters don't get off that easy. They're just as culpable for the situation we find ourselves in. Probably more so, because most 3rd party supporters I meet are relatively informed voters. It's like they knew better, but decided to watch the world burn anyways.

Disagree. Trump voters, and those who didn't vote are responsible for Trump's win. You said yourself that Johnson made up a very small percentage.

I live in a solid Red state, and there was no question that Hillary was taking our state. Because of that I voted 3rd party. My vote mattered not one bit in the race between Trump and Clinton, which is why I felt comfortable doing so.

How is that disagreeing? You had the luxury of throwing your vote away, so you did?

I didn't throw my vote away. Do you define throwing your vote away as not voting for the ultimate winner? If so, then all of the Hillary voters threw their votes away, too. I voted my conscience. If I thought a vote for Hillary would have resulted in a defeat for Trump I would have thrown my vote away to Hillary. I voted, and bear absolutely zero responsibility for Hillary's loss. So yes, I disagree with your false premise.

The entire system is set up so that voters choose one of the two major party candidates to be president. Voting third party essentially says: “I don’t care who becomes president, and I’m going to let other voters decide for me.”

Third party voters always talk about how they’re tired of choosing between the “lesser of two evils”—well, in American democracy, that’s what voting is. America is not a Multi-party Democracy, and your third party candidate is never going to win. Grown-ups have to make hard choices and accept less-than-thrilling results every single day in life, and democracy is no different.

Amazing how your logic went from "every vote counts and I voted my conscience" to " I bear absolutely zero responsibility" in less than 3 sentences. What kind of mental gymnastics is that?

The mental gymnastics that are required to keep up with your bizarre premises and moving targets. Where did I say every vote counts? I implied that my vote didn't count. Hillary had my state locked up. I could have abstained, I could have voted for Trump, I could have voted for Hillary, I could have voted for Johnson, or I could have voted for Stein and the result in my state would have been exactly the same. I specifically recognized that my vote didn't matter, and was free to "send a message". I also specifically said that had I thought my vote would have mattered, I'd have thrown it to Hillary, who was definitely the lesser of two evils. So you can continue to play your game and make wild assertions about what I said (even when I didn't say it), but your premise that third party voters ushered Trump into office is false. Quit taking plays from Kellyanne's alternative facts book.

I am not saying it is 100% 3rd party voters fault Trump got elected.
But it certainly is not 0%. 3rd party voters try to get away with this "don't blame me, I didn't actually participate in the election that was happening" crap, and I'm not buying it.

I did participate in the election, so I'm not sure what crap you aren't buying. I'm so very sorry that you don't approve of the way I exercise my democracy, and use my vote. I'll remind you that the president is elected by the Electoral College, not by individual votes cast. My state went roughly 52% Hillary to Trump's 36%. The Democratic electors from my state were all supposed to cast their ballots for Hillary. There were 4 who defected, 3 of whom cast their electoral college votes for Colin Powell and 1 who cast a vote for Faith Spotted Eagle. Those 4 were democrat party activists or otherwise very engaged, and still threw their votes. Perhaps you should be looking their way instead of blaming insignificant numbers of individual voters who had no ability to affect the outcome. Your derision is very misguided, but I do hope that it makes you feel better.

It's interesting that those of us who vote w/ our conscience are all always "bothering" others who are trying endlessly to push others to vote "their way". Ever notice that? You've got an entire group of people using their right to vote as they choose, which is the way it should be, and another group ultimately convinced that if others don't do it THEIR way, they caused their candidate to lose. And then they play the victim card.

Free

Dupe post

HesCalledDyer

rgambs said:

HesCalledDyer said:

Stop playing the blame game. No one who voted 3rd party wanted Donald Trump to be President. If they did, they would've voted for Donald Trump. Blaming 3rd party voters for Trump winning is not only wrong, it's toxic. Voting 3rd party is not "throwing your vote away." Third party candidates are never going to get the national recognition they should get IF WE DON'T VOTE FOR THEM. I don't know why this is so hard to understand. I'll say it again - I REFUSE to use my free and constitutional right to vote for someone simply to use it as a vote against the other guy. I will ONLY ever vote FOR someone I believe in the most. I'm done with the lesser of two evils shit. Don't tell me how I should have voted (i.e. making it obligation instead of a right) and don't blame me because Trump is in office. We went through this same song & dance in 2000 with Nader voters and it got us nowhere. Please, just stop with the blame. This is on nobody but those who voted for Donald Trump.

Dance, dance, dance the blame away.
The POTUS was bound by all measure of rational thought to be either Clinton or Trump.
You voted for someone you knew beyond a shadow of a doubt couldn't win, so you own partial responsibility for the outcome, unless you live in one of the states where the outcome is certain.

Come on gambs, you're better than this.

rgambs

HesCalledDyer said:

rgambs said:

HesCalledDyer said:

Stop playing the blame game. No one who voted 3rd party wanted Donald Trump to be President. If they did, they would've voted for Donald Trump. Blaming 3rd party voters for Trump winning is not only wrong, it's toxic. Voting 3rd party is not "throwing your vote away." Third party candidates are never going to get the national recognition they should get IF WE DON'T VOTE FOR THEM. I don't know why this is so hard to understand. I'll say it again - I REFUSE to use my free and constitutional right to vote for someone simply to use it as a vote against the other guy. I will ONLY ever vote FOR someone I believe in the most. I'm done with the lesser of two evils shit. Don't tell me how I should have voted (i.e. making it obligation instead of a right) and don't blame me because Trump is in office. We went through this same song & dance in 2000 with Nader voters and it got us nowhere. Please, just stop with the blame. This is on nobody but those who voted for Donald Trump.

Dance, dance, dance the blame away.
The POTUS was bound by all measure of rational thought to be either Clinton or Trump.
You voted for someone you knew beyond a shadow of a doubt couldn't win, so you own partial responsibility for the outcome, unless you live in one of the states where the outcome is certain.

Come on gambs, you're better than this.

I'm not though lol
I'm petty and pissy sometimes.

I think your logic is taking a backseat to your feelings on this issue.

Free

rgambs said:

HesCalledDyer said:

rgambs said:

HesCalledDyer said:

Stop playing the blame game. No one who voted 3rd party wanted Donald Trump to be President. If they did, they would've voted for Donald Trump. Blaming 3rd party voters for Trump winning is not only wrong, it's toxic. Voting 3rd party is not "throwing your vote away." Third party candidates are never going to get the national recognition they should get IF WE DON'T VOTE FOR THEM. I don't know why this is so hard to understand. I'll say it again - I REFUSE to use my free and constitutional right to vote for someone simply to use it as a vote against the other guy. I will ONLY ever vote FOR someone I believe in the most. I'm done with the lesser of two evils shit. Don't tell me how I should have voted (i.e. making it obligation instead of a right) and don't blame me because Trump is in office. We went through this same song & dance in 2000 with Nader voters and it got us nowhere. Please, just stop with the blame. This is on nobody but those who voted for Donald Trump.

Dance, dance, dance the blame away.
The POTUS was bound by all measure of rational thought to be either Clinton or Trump.
You voted for someone you knew beyond a shadow of a doubt couldn't win, so you own partial responsibility for the outcome, unless you live in one of the states where the outcome is certain.

Come on gambs, you're better than this.

I'm not though lol
I'm petty and pissy sometimes.

I think your logic is taking a backseat to your feelings on this issue.

Free said:

jeffbr said:

CM189191 said:

jeffbr said:

CM189191 said:

jeffbr said:

CM189191 said:

jeffbr said:

CM189191 said:

Free said:

oceaninmyeyes said:

That majority there in the green? That's third party voting. But everybody blames third-party voters, meanwhile this election had the best number of third-party voters in history. Because the other two idiots with the least popular candidates in history.

Yet, continue to blame us because we don't fall into your neat 2-party, status quo category.

do you even math?
Gary Johnson & Jill Stein combined got less than 5% of the vote. Pretty sure that qualifies as the least popular candidates in history.

And yes, 3rd party voters are partly to blame for this debacle. It's like you saved up your money, bought a flight and reserved a weekend in Vegas to bet on the Superbowl. And when you got there, you decided you didn't like the Patriots or the Falcons and decided to bet on Manchester United to win.

Sorry, third party voters don't get off that easy. They're just as culpable for the situation we find ourselves in. Probably more so, because most 3rd party supporters I meet are relatively informed voters. It's like they knew better, but decided to watch the world burn anyways.

Disagree. Trump voters, and those who didn't vote are responsible for Trump's win. You said yourself that Johnson made up a very small percentage.

I live in a solid Red state, and there was no question that Hillary was taking our state. Because of that I voted 3rd party. My vote mattered not one bit in the race between Trump and Clinton, which is why I felt comfortable doing so.

How is that disagreeing? You had the luxury of throwing your vote away, so you did?

I didn't throw my vote away. Do you define throwing your vote away as not voting for the ultimate winner? If so, then all of the Hillary voters threw their votes away, too. I voted my conscience. If I thought a vote for Hillary would have resulted in a defeat for Trump I would have thrown my vote away to Hillary. I voted, and bear absolutely zero responsibility for Hillary's loss. So yes, I disagree with your false premise.

The entire system is set up so that voters choose one of the two major party candidates to be president. Voting third party essentially says: “I don’t care who becomes president, and I’m going to let other voters decide for me.”

Third party voters always talk about how they’re tired of choosing between the “lesser of two evils”—well, in American democracy, that’s what voting is. America is not a Multi-party Democracy, and your third party candidate is never going to win. Grown-ups have to make hard choices and accept less-than-thrilling results every single day in life, and democracy is no different.

Amazing how your logic went from "every vote counts and I voted my conscience" to " I bear absolutely zero responsibility" in less than 3 sentences. What kind of mental gymnastics is that?

The mental gymnastics that are required to keep up with your bizarre premises and moving targets. Where did I say every vote counts? I implied that my vote didn't count. Hillary had my state locked up. I could have abstained, I could have voted for Trump, I could have voted for Hillary, I could have voted for Johnson, or I could have voted for Stein and the result in my state would have been exactly the same. I specifically recognized that my vote didn't matter, and was free to "send a message". I also specifically said that had I thought my vote would have mattered, I'd have thrown it to Hillary, who was definitely the lesser of two evils. So you can continue to play your game and make wild assertions about what I said (even when I didn't say it), but your premise that third party voters ushered Trump into office is false. Quit taking plays from Kellyanne's alternative facts book.

I am not saying it is 100% 3rd party voters fault Trump got elected.
But it certainly is not 0%. 3rd party voters try to get away with this "don't blame me, I didn't actually participate in the election that was happening" crap, and I'm not buying it.

I did participate in the election, so I'm not sure what crap you aren't buying. I'm so very sorry that you don't approve of the way I exercise my democracy, and use my vote. I'll remind you that the president is elected by the Electoral College, not by individual votes cast. My state went roughly 52% Hillary to Trump's 36%. The Democratic electors from my state were all supposed to cast their ballots for Hillary. There were 4 who defected, 3 of whom cast their electoral college votes for Colin Powell and 1 who cast a vote for Faith Spotted Eagle. Those 4 were democrat party activists or otherwise very engaged, and still threw their votes. Perhaps you should be looking their way instead of blaming insignificant numbers of individual voters who had no ability to affect the outcome. Your derision is very misguided, but I do hope that it makes you feel better.

It's interesting that those of us who vote w/ our conscience are all always "bothering" others who are trying endlessly to push others to vote "their way". Ever notice that? You've got an entire group of people using their right to vote as they choose, which is the way it should be, and another group ultimately convinced that if others don't do it THEIR way, they caused their candidate to lose. And then they play the victim card.

PJfanwillneverleave1

Bentleyspop said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

How do you become a member of the Electoral College is it by vote?

www.google.com

Great idea!
I wanted a more nuanced answer on how you really become a member.
It's like banging your head against a brick wall responding to you.

HesCalledDyer

rgambs said:

HesCalledDyer said:

rgambs said:

HesCalledDyer said:

Stop playing the blame game. No one who voted 3rd party wanted Donald Trump to be President. If they did, they would've voted for Donald Trump. Blaming 3rd party voters for Trump winning is not only wrong, it's toxic. Voting 3rd party is not "throwing your vote away." Third party candidates are never going to get the national recognition they should get IF WE DON'T VOTE FOR THEM. I don't know why this is so hard to understand. I'll say it again - I REFUSE to use my free and constitutional right to vote for someone simply to use it as a vote against the other guy. I will ONLY ever vote FOR someone I believe in the most. I'm done with the lesser of two evils shit. Don't tell me how I should have voted (i.e. making it obligation instead of a right) and don't blame me because Trump is in office. We went through this same song & dance in 2000 with Nader voters and it got us nowhere. Please, just stop with the blame. This is on nobody but those who voted for Donald Trump.

Dance, dance, dance the blame away.
The POTUS was bound by all measure of rational thought to be either Clinton or Trump.
You voted for someone you knew beyond a shadow of a doubt couldn't win, so you own partial responsibility for the outcome, unless you live in one of the states where the outcome is certain.

Come on gambs, you're better than this.

I'm not though lol
I'm petty and pissy sometimes.

I think your logic is taking a backseat to your feelings on this issue.

My feelings? I don't want Trump in the White House any more than you do. There is nothing wrong with my logic. Trump voters are the ones who put him in office. Not you, not me. The ones who voted for that piece of shit.