Lolla live cut vs. PJ dvds, etc...

Mantra Slider

A couple of friends and I were talking about the quality of the Lolla webcast vs. the band's official dvds.

This brought about an argument about what do PJ fans, and music fans in general, really want to see when their favorite band is shot for broadcast or dvd?
All the guitar solos close up?
The drum solo from one camera angle?
etc...
Tight shots of the singer's face when he's singing the lyrics at the exclusion of whatever is going on onstage, etc...?

Granted a live cut like the Lolla webcast is a very different animal than something that is edited after the fact like the band's official dvds, but I think the question is relevant in both cases.

Personally I like to see a clean, quick and tight cut. If the singer is singing he should be shown unless there's an accent/solo/drum fill, etc...that's important to the song.
If there's a riff that's key, like the open to "Alive" it has to be shown as best as possible, etc...

Brisk.

all this quick camera angles and stuff its so fucking annoying...you look for 3 seconds and then it switches to a different angle... another reason to why i love bootlegs.. its just a camera pointed at the band.. you can see everything and everyone..

i dont want closeups of jeff's face or anything like that.

shame that lollpalooza decided to film some fireworks rather than matts solo..

Mantra Slider

I BrisK I wrote:

shame that lollpalooza decided to film some fireworks rather than matts solo..

I can see that you've been scarred for life by this!
Can a lawsuit against AT&T be far behind?

stevieraveon

Great question, this is something that has always bugged me. As a guitar player, I'm always interested in what the guitar player is doing, but most people want to see the singer. I agree w/ the above poster who said solo's, signature riffs, intro's, etc should show the guitarist. The rest of the time I'd like a panned out version so I can see what everyone's doing.

One of the worst examples of editing I've ever seen is in the link below. I paid $50 for a bootleg DVD of this years ago (before youtube) specifically to see SRV play Little Wing. 1:15 - 2:15 the director decides to show the fucking river instead of the concert. WTF!?!?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0zy0lqpOyc

Pegasus

that's why a film will never top a live performance (Music, theatre, whatever).

YOU can choose what you look at, not what the director decides is 'important'.

LeatherMosquitoMan

If i had my way, i'd have a camera in one spot, and just record the whole show. Just like it would be when i'm at a show. I don't move around, i don't get closer etc.

I'd be happy w/a one angle continuous shot from somewhere relatively close, but far enough away to see the whole stage.

mpgervace

thats why baseball (the greatest sport) is so difficult to watch on TV, the only angle you usually get is from center field, and all you see is the pitcher, catcher batter & ump.... when I'm trying to explain to my sons, what the other players are doing while a pitch is about to be thrown, they dont have a clue what I mean....

this is why I have season tickets to the Cleveland indians... to teach them what major leaguers do other than pitch & hit.....

kinda referencing the thread in a different prospective.....

but I get your point.

poto101

live at the garden is perfect IMO. it shows each band member at the right time, when they shine. the what, 2 minutes of mike during Black are so great because you can see how much he gets into his solos.

I can't stand it when its flashy, or moves around every 2 seconds. like the mad season DVD i think it is....anyone see this? you hardly get to see the badn because they just show layne, and a few slow motion shots of the band playing hteir insterments.


IMO, shitty. a cut from pink floyd-delicate sounds of thunder DVD, Time
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ptLzolfJEpA

too much going on, its just not a live concert, its a theatrical show, and i just don't enjoy it. time is one of the best guitar solos of all time, why can't i see it??? i dont give a fuck about backup singers dancing. seirously.

then again it was the 80s....

better, U2- Live in Chicago....Miricale drug
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hXT8QeOxHFc

still kinda flashy, but that stage was really cool. and you still get a feel of waht is actually going on, and get to see the passion edge and bono put into the performance.

Best, PJ- Live at the garden.....
http://youtube.com/watch?v=holKdFsu7Vo

c'mon, you get to see the whole stage, the lights WITH the band. the crowd, unlike any other DVD i have seen, you actually get to see the crowd. it's just filmed more relaxed than any other DVD i have seen and i enjoy it. you get to see eddie, matt cam, stone, matt and eddie (great angle), boom at the right time, jeff and mike at the right times, and you have a real idea of what the rest of the band is doing, because you have seen it for more than 1 second (unlike the pink floyd) and have time to process it. plus, theres no slow motion bullshit.

wow that was longer than i expected

earfulofjam

LeatherMosquitoMan wrote:

I'd be happy w/a one angle continuous shot from somewhere relatively close, but far enough away to see the whole stage.

An angled continuous shot around 45 degrees to the stage so you can see some of the crowd, roadies handing guitars over, people doing funny stuff in the crowd at the front....all that stuff you really get to see when you're there.

I'm not too fussed about what is shown, as long as it's not Stone's head bopping the whole concert (I wonder, does he ever think he'll get arthritis in his neck from doing that...maybe he should go side to side occasionally).

I think a good example of a decent bootleg angle is one of the Boston shows 4-11-94. Close enough to see details in the band, and when zoomed in can see everything, but far enough away to get some idea of the crowd and stage. If this show was a little bit steadier (gets steadier throughout though), and was filmed using today's camera technology, I think it would never come out of my DVD player!

||Release_Me||

Personally, i think the Buenos Aires '05 pro-shot tv broadcast is a pretty good example of what i like in a dvd.

Earlier on in my fandom, i loved just watching Eddie, but now my show experiences are so much richer because i spend time looking at the other members. Touring Band, Showbox and L@TG are great for showing the band members for good periods of time. BUT, the one thing they don't have enough of is good crowd shots.

With Touring Band and MSG, the straight shot at the band is ok but you can only see the first section of the crowd, and i can never get a feel for how big or involved the crowd is. Take Better Man for example, the whole crowd sings the first verse but i think there's only one short shot of the first few rows singing, filmed from the side. Compare that with 'Animal' from the Buenos Aires broadcast, when the song kicks in the camera is right at the back and you can see the whole crowd jumping in unison. It gives me chills.

Then again, its hard to compare because the PJ releases thus far were filmed by about three people, and tv broadcasts have multiple filmers and static cameras etc.

The new dvd looks promising because of the inclusion of crowd shots during important parts. 'Alive' from Verona isn't on the DVD but the clip in the trailer of the 'yeah' chant while Eddie seems to do some kind of kick just looks amazing.

All this rambling is just me trying to say that i prefer when we can see the crowd jumping and going crazy,

MikeMcCreadyJr

||Release_Me|| wrote:

Personally, i think the Buenos Aires '05 pro-shot tv broadcast is a pretty good example of what i like in a dvd.

Earlier on in my fandom, i loved just watching Eddie, but now my show experiences are so much richer because i spend time looking at the other members. Touring Band, Showbox and L@TG are great for showing the band members for good periods of time. BUT, the one thing they don't have enough of is good crowd shots.

With Touring Band and MSG, the straight shot at the band is ok but you can only see the first section of the crowd, and i can never get a feel for how big or involved the crowd is. Take Better Man for example, the whole crowd sings the first verse but i think there's only one short shot of the first few rows singing, filmed from the side. Compare that with 'Animal' from the Buenos Aires broadcast, when the song kicks in the camera is right at the back and you can see the whole crowd jumping in unison. It gives me chills.

Then again, its hard to compare because the PJ releases thus far were filmed by about three people, and tv broadcasts have multiple filmers and static cameras etc.

The new dvd looks promising because of the inclusion of crowd shots during important parts. 'Alive' from Verona isn't on the DVD but the clip in the trailer of the 'yeah' chant while Eddie seems to do some kind of kick just looks amazing.

All this rambling is just me trying to say that i prefer when we can see the crowd jumping and going crazy,

Totally agree! More crowd shots! I'll take a crowd shot for every interaction.. the "Animal" hands, the "Small Town" wave, the "Daughter" hello, the GTF arms wide open, the Leadbetter wave, ect...

poto101

can somebody hook me up with a B&P for this dvd???? it sounds sick...

the youtube cuts just dont do it for me, i need some quality!

thanks in advance, just PM me.

anyone agree with me on what accounts for BAD, and BEST? part of what i liked about L@TG is that you could at times see one or two crowd members doing their thing. and i mean clearly. made you feel like you were at the show