The Grateful Dead/Pearl Jam comparison...

philzonereddy

I consider myself fortunate enough to have been a fan of and experienced both bands on a fanatical, for lack of a better term, level...

I find it odd, that when Jerry passed, Jam Bands popped up everywhere to claim the traveling circus crown, Phish seemed to hold it for a bit, but I believe their hiatus may have halted their progress...plus let's face it, while they are excellent musicians, their quirky lyrics don't resonate with the masses...

But I could not help but draw comparisons of the scene after Fenway...

Silently, creeping along...Pearl Jam has become the ultimate touring band...drawing in all walks of life to the experience of the live show...releasing live music that is eagerly eaten up by the masses...the setlist changes, not as random as I would like, but random enough to feel the need to see every show I can...

I kept thinking in Boston, man, this is like 90's Dead all over again...
I just hope the bands end's are not similar in any way...Jerry was a very old 52 when he left this earth...The burden of the Dead and Deadheads became mostly his, due to his cult like status...his heroin addiction destroying him....

Eddie carries that same weight to even a larger scale, given their immense world wide popularity...it would seem he's holding up nicely in comparison...we all hope...

At some point, everything becomes too much...

Keep rocking boys...

dudeman

Great thread and I agree.

I was able to see the Dead and what really made it special was the collective experience. I always felt like I was a part of a very large family with GD and the rest of the Deadheads.

PJ is a different experience at the shows due to the fans. PJ and the guys are the best in the world at bringing it every single night. There is something for everyone and something to fit every mood in their catalog.

I just wish that so many people weren't angry, pushy, rude and oblivious to the people around them at the shows.

philzonereddy

Towards the end...the Dead scene was all about angry, pushy and rude...

I had enough in '92...

Didn't matter what the band may have played, I was going to deal...

AceCool

Phil, I'm a huge Dead Head to this day. I can see your point in comparing the two bands but they are really two different animals. The tribe aspect is very similar outside of shows as well as the changing setlist. I do get a similar vibe when I go to the airport and start to see PJ fans going to or coming from the shows.

I would hesitate to call PJ the ultimate touring band though because when it comes down to it they really don't tour that much. The Dead were very consistent in their touring schedule (outside of unforeseen Jerry Garcia illnesses). You could practically set your watch by the Spring/Summer/Fall tours with hometown Bay Area shows sprinkled in between. Year after year they averaged 75-80 shows with the staple of their touring experience being the multi-night run. PJ, on the other hand, has settled into a much more abbreviated tour schedule once per year at most with only the occasional two night run.

Towards the end the Dead scene became more about the scumbags that were following the scene looking for the party and (sadly) the excuse to mooch free shit off of the kindness well intending strangers. Garcia's drug addiction became too much of a burden as well and the music definitely suffered. I stopped seeing the Dead play in '93 when Jerry lost the ability to segue between songs and eventually had to start using a teleprompter to remember lyrics.

The Grateful Dead are still my absolute all time favorite band but I really enjoy going out on the road with a rock and roll band. PJ is awesome and they are righteously committed to the fans. I'm very appreciative of their music and the live experience.

I feel like PJ has a lot more left in the tank.

phan84

Phish is my other favorite band. I've seen them about 85 times. The closer comparison to PJ would really be Phish in my opinion. As mentioned above the Dead toured a lot every year. Averaging about 75 shows a year. They almost never put out new studio albums. The Dead were playing massive stadiums and 6 nights runs at MSG, Boston Garden, etc.

Both Phish and PJ probably play between about 30 - 40 shows a year. Both put out studio albums pretty consistently. Both PJ and Phish filled Wrigley and Fenway, but if they were to play Gillette Stadium or Giant's Stadium for 2 nights - I can't see either filling them. I can't see PJ or Phish selling out 6 nights at MSG or the Garden (nevermind the 9 shows GD once did at MSG). If it is a special event like New Years Eve, 4 nights at MSG are soft sellout for Phish at MSG (meaning yes, it might be sold out on paper, but those first nights of the run have plenty of tickets floating around). Both bands have crazy merchandise scenes - the two biggest I've seen, but that being said, PJ is really maybe 5 times as big as Phish in terms of demand for items. The posters and smaller items like magnets or special event items have a huge demand for Phish, while PJ has a huge demand for everything.

Both Phish and PJ have apt comparisons to the GD though. All three have a mail order ticket system with a large demand for shows. All three have fans that go to multiple shows on a tour and travel long distances. All three have diehard fans that are familiar with all the nuances of every show and song. All three change up their setlist and are known to play 2.5-3 hour shows each night.

I'd include Springsteen to an extent in the above category. Different in the sense that while he is of course wildly popular and has hardcore fans, I think Phish, GD, and PJ have a higher percentage of hardcore fans. All and all I really don't think there are many if any other bands with similar fan/touring characteristics to the above artists.

josevolution

Saw Dead probably as many times as I've seen PJ 40 to 45 shows but GD toured way more regularly , PJ does not ..not even close

josevolution

phan84 said:

Phish is my other favorite band. I've seen them about 85 times. The closer comparison to PJ would really be Phish in my opinion. As mentioned above the Dead toured a lot every year. Averaging about 75 shows a year. They almost never put out new studio albums. The Dead were playing massive stadiums and 6 nights runs at MSG, Boston Garden, etc.

Both Phish and PJ probably play between about 30 - 40 shows a year. Both put out studio albums pretty consistently. Both PJ and Phish filled Wrigley and Fenway, but if they were to play Gillette Stadium or Giant's Stadium for 2 nights - I can't see either filling them. I can't see PJ or Phish selling out 6 nights at MSG or the Garden (nevermind the 9 shows GD once did at MSG). If it is a special event like New Years Eve, 4 nights at MSG are soft sellout for Phish at MSG (meaning yes, it might be sold out on paper, but those first nights of the run have plenty of tickets floating around). Both bands have crazy merchandise scenes - the two biggest I've seen, but that being said, PJ is really maybe 5 times as big as Phish in terms of demand for items. The posters and smaller items like magnets or special event items have a huge demand for Phish, while PJ has a huge demand for everything.

Both Phish and PJ have apt comparisons to the GD though. All three have a mail order ticket system with a large demand for shows. All three have fans that go to multiple shows on a tour and travel long distances. All three have diehard fans that are familiar with all the nuances of every show and song. All three change up their setlist and are known to play 2.5-3 hour shows each night.

I'd include Springsteen to an extent in the above category. Different in the sense that while he is of course wildly popular and has hardcore fans, I think Phish, GD, and PJ have a higher percentage of hardcore fans. All and all I really don't think there are many if any other bands with similar fan/touring characteristics to the above artists.

PJ does not play 30 shows a yr maybe in a two yr span but def not every yr ...

weekapaug19

I think pj would sell out Gillette 2 shows. Not phish, but I also don't see pj ever having 80k people drive to limestone Maine which phish had

philzonereddy

I know there are some very obvious differences in the way the band especially the touring schedules.

GD's bread and butter was the states. They were counterculture revolutionaries that became a mainstay in our society. Especially for kids like me of the 80's, that didn't like what society had to offer. I embraced this ideology hole heartedly, until '89 or so...everything seemed to erode away...

PJ is more of a world phenomenon. I really believe if PJ toured the states regularly like GD did, they would garner the same attention. I think they could easily make runs at venues without issue, especially if they get more
creative with setlists...

Eddie just has that X factor...much like Jerry...there is just something different about them...

I was so very fortunate to be on the front end of this band...and when I first met Eddie I could not shake the surreal feeling that I was in the presence of greatness...I knew immediately, he was different, much like I'm sure those that met Jerry felt...

I'm 100% convinced there are folks on this planet that are somehow gifted more than the masses...and those folks tend to shine...not sure what the F it is?

So going forward. Let's put an end to this world travel, and put a more definitive focus on the states boys...haha.

weekapaug19

i think they would need to be a lot more creative with the setlists and jam more songs out (ex. RVM, porch, etc...) if they were to do more runs at venues like the dead year after year

philzonereddy

weekapaug19 said:

i think they would need to be a lot more creative with the setlists and jam more songs out (ex. RVM, porch, etc...) if they were to do more runs at venues like the dead year after year

Definitely...the RVM in Fenway was ridiculous btw...one of my favs.

pearldavidson

Cool thread. Interesting reading these comments.

phan84

josevolution said:

phan84 said:

Phish is my other favorite band. I've seen them about 85 times. The closer comparison to PJ would really be Phish in my opinion. As mentioned above the Dead toured a lot every year. Averaging about 75 shows a year. They almost never put out new studio albums. The Dead were playing massive stadiums and 6 nights runs at MSG, Boston Garden, etc.

Both Phish and PJ probably play between about 30 - 40 shows a year. Both put out studio albums pretty consistently. Both PJ and Phish filled Wrigley and Fenway, but if they were to play Gillette Stadium or Giant's Stadium for 2 nights - I can't see either filling them. I can't see PJ or Phish selling out 6 nights at MSG or the Garden (nevermind the 9 shows GD once did at MSG). If it is a special event like New Years Eve, 4 nights at MSG are soft sellout for Phish at MSG (meaning yes, it might be sold out on paper, but those first nights of the run have plenty of tickets floating around). Both bands have crazy merchandise scenes - the two biggest I've seen, but that being said, PJ is really maybe 5 times as big as Phish in terms of demand for items. The posters and smaller items like magnets or special event items have a huge demand for Phish, while PJ has a huge demand for everything.

Both Phish and PJ have apt comparisons to the GD though. All three have a mail order ticket system with a large demand for shows. All three have fans that go to multiple shows on a tour and travel long distances. All three have diehard fans that are familiar with all the nuances of every show and song. All three change up their setlist and are known to play 2.5-3 hour shows each night.

I'd include Springsteen to an extent in the above category. Different in the sense that while he is of course wildly popular and has hardcore fans, I think Phish, GD, and PJ have a higher percentage of hardcore fans. All and all I really don't think there are many if any other bands with similar fan/touring characteristics to the above artists.

PJ does not play 30 shows a yr maybe in a two yr span but def not every yr ...

Ya I just took a look - you are right. Some of the recent years have been around 30 - some closer to 10. So that being said, I find it a little hard to call PJ "the ultimate touring band" which is neither a good thing or a bad thing. It just is. Frankly, even if they were playing 30 shows a year, the title seems like a bit of a stretch. Same with Phish - they are averaging about almost exactly 40 shows since they got back together. Reality is, keeping it around 30 is probably better for longevity. The GD pretty much have the title forever of "ultimate touring band." They did around 70 shows, sometimes even 80+ a year for 30 years (save for a few year hiatus in the 70's) - and I think doing that ultimately aided in Jerry's death (and most certainly burnt the band out). The last 5 years of the GD certainly had some good moments (MSG 91' with Branford Marsalis is one of my all time favs), but there were more rough moments where Jerry came close to (if not did) nodding off on stage and he forget so many words it was painful.

Very similar thing happened with Phish. 1995 - 2000 they were averaging close to 70 shows a year (with multiple trips to Europe) and it was burning them out. They took the 2 year break and when they got back together Trey was a mess. Screwed up so many lyrics and songs it was absolutely painful. They broke up for 5 years - now they are at 40 and I think the difference between 40 shows and 70 shows a year is huge. It's essentially one longer tour, one shorter tour, and a NYE run.

Long story short - selfishly I'd love to see Phish and PJ play 70 shows a year, but reality is that if we want to see both bands play for a long time at high quality - fewer shows a year and thus not the "ultimate touring band" title probably makes that more likely a scenario.

phan84

weekapaug19 said:

I think pj would sell out Gillette 2 shows. Not phish, but I also don't see pj ever having 80k people drive to limestone Maine which phish had

Agreed. I don't think Phish would put a dent in Gillette unless they somehow labeled it a special event with three sets or something (or else played no other shows in the area for a full year. I could see them selling 20,000 a night or maybe 30,000 if they really did no other area shows. But I'm really not sure if I can see PJ sell 60,000 tickets per night there either. Certainly, they'd sell more than Phish, but 60,000 is a huge amount of tickets per night. Springsteen can't sell out two nights.

I wonder what kind of crowd they'd get if they did a three days festival like Phish. I doubt they could put 80,000 to Maine or 80,000 to Big Cypress. These days Phish fests get a lot smaller of a crowd and they are kinda in more central areas, but even still I'm not sure what contingent of the PJ fanbase would really want to camp out for three days. Maybe if they did it in a place with a ton of hotels

philzonereddy

I think PJ fans would definitely do the 3 day festival thing regardless of accommodations...

If you build it they will come...

PJ has the draw power to make any place a migration spot...

manitouman

Soldier Field '95.....'nuff said.

weddingparade

both bands love white widow
a free lifetime supply of ben and jerry's is a definite problem. lucky for ed he doesn't have the same deal