The coal argument got away from my original point which is that coal is the most cost effective way to produce bulk energy other than nuclear power plants.
how do you define effective? ... producing greenhouse gases? ... causing health related issues?
I defined it as cost effective.
I'm not so sure Nuclear is all that cost effective ... those plants are extremely expensive to construct. Then what do you do with the waste? I however have no problem using natural gas over coal ... but that's still a fossil fuel, so I'll get shit around here for that suggestion...it is however cost effective.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
The coal argument got away from my original point which is that coal is the most cost effective way to produce bulk energy other than nuclear power plants.
how do you define effective? ... producing greenhouse gases? ... causing health related issues?
Black Lung? Community wide illness caused by the coal mines? Greedy CEOs pocketing massive amounts of money while workers don't make much?
The coal argument got away from my original point which is that coal is the most cost effective way to produce bulk energy other than nuclear power plants.
how do you define effective? ... producing greenhouse gases? ... causing health related issues?
Black Lung? Community wide illness caused by the coal mines? Greedy CEOs pocketing massive amounts of money while workers don't make much?
I am not familiar with the coal industry because where I live we function on hydro power and natural gas (not that coal mining doesn't still happen in the province, and that is very controversial for environmental reasons), but really? Black lung is still happening??
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
The coal argument got away from my original point which is that coal is the most cost effective way to produce bulk energy other than nuclear power plants.
how do you define effective? ... producing greenhouse gases? ... causing health related issues?
I defined it as cost effective.
I'm not so sure Nuclear is all that cost effective ... those plants are extremely expensive to construct. Then what do you do with the waste? I however have no problem using natural gas over coal ... but that's still a fossil fuel, so I'll get shit around here for that suggestion...it is however cost effective.
Once the nuclear plants are operation, it's extremely cost effective. Just keep the reactor hot to produce the steam (I know that is over simplified). I don't know what the cost is to ship the waste out west to the mountains. But im sure its a drop in the ocean compared to what that company is making. And I think those reactors last a long time before they are shipped out.
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
The coal argument got away from my original point which is that coal is the most cost effective way to produce bulk energy other than nuclear power plants.
how do you define effective? ... producing greenhouse gases? ... causing health related issues?
Black Lung? Community wide illness caused by the coal mines? Greedy CEOs pocketing massive amounts of money while workers don't make much?
I am not familiar with the coal industry because where I live we function on hydro power and natural gas (not that coal mining doesn't still happen in the province, and that is very controversial for environmental reasons), but really? Black lung is still happening??
Just curious who is BC selling coal to? I was speaking to a fellow from Alberta and he claimed there is very little market for coal from Alberta ... basically he said most Alberta coal that is mined is used in Alberta. I honestly thought anyone still burning coal was doing so because it's mined in state/province and used in those states/province which is why I suspect it'd be difficult to get some of those US states off coal. Now maybe he was way off, maybe someone from Alberta or yourself could clarify. And curious as to your thoughts on exporting coal to other jurisdictions for profit? Is that not almost as bad as Quebec (thinking we don't anymore) still mining asbestos even though it has been banned in Canada for some time. Both can cause serious health issues.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
The coal argument got away from my original point which is that coal is the most cost effective way to produce bulk energy other than nuclear power plants.
how do you define effective? ... producing greenhouse gases? ... causing health related issues?
Black Lung? Community wide illness caused by the coal mines? Greedy CEOs pocketing massive amounts of money while workers don't make much?
I am not familiar with the coal industry because where I live we function on hydro power and natural gas (not that coal mining doesn't still happen in the province, and that is very controversial for environmental reasons), but really? Black lung is still happening??
Just curious who is BC selling coal to? I was speaking to a fellow from Alberta and he claimed there is very little market for coal from Alberta ... basically he said most Alberta coal that is mined is used in Alberta. I honestly thought anyone still burning coal was doing so because it's mined in state/province and used in those states/province which is why I suspect it'd be difficult to get some of those US states off coal. Now maybe he was way off, maybe someone from Alberta or yourself could clarify. And curious as to your thoughts on exporting coal to other jurisdictions for profit? Is that not almost as bad as Quebec (thinking we don't anymore) still mining asbestos even though it has been banned in Canada for some time. Both can cause serious health issues.
BC sells it to China of course. China doesn't give a shit about that stuff - they'll buy all the coal they can get their hands on! And of course the BC government doesn't give a shit. Christy Clark = Yeah, that asbestos thing is shocking... I will never forget that Harper specifically defended the asbestos export industry. It was one of the reasons I hated him so much.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Yeah, I'm partly to blame. My apologies. As for third parties, it could be argued a third party cost Gore in 2000. Who knows what the world looks like if dumbass never gets elected.
2000 - 8/21 - Columbus, OH 2003 - 6/18 - Chicago, IL 2006 - 5/22 - Auburn Hills, MI 2007 - 8/5 - Chicago, IL 2015 - 9/26 - New York, NY 2016 - 4/16 - Greenville, SC; 8/20 - Chicago, IL; 8/22 - Chicago, IL 2018 - 8/18 - Chicago, IL; 8/20 - Chicago, IL
The coal argument got away from my original point which is that coal is the most cost effective way to produce bulk energy other than nuclear power plants.
how do you define effective? ... producing greenhouse gases? ... causing health related issues?
Black Lung? Community wide illness caused by the coal mines? Greedy CEOs pocketing massive amounts of money while workers don't make much?
I am not familiar with the coal industry because where I live we function on hydro power and natural gas (not that coal mining doesn't still happen in the province, and that is very controversial for environmental reasons), but really? Black lung is still happening??
YES, black lung still happens. As long as there is coal mining, there will be a black lung. As well as there being polluted communities.
The coal argument got away from my original point which is that coal is the most cost effective way to produce bulk energy other than nuclear power plants.
how do you define effective? ... producing greenhouse gases? ... causing health related issues?
Black Lung? Community wide illness caused by the coal mines? Greedy CEOs pocketing massive amounts of money while workers don't make much?
I am not familiar with the coal industry because where I live we function on hydro power and natural gas (not that coal mining doesn't still happen in the province, and that is very controversial for environmental reasons), but really? Black lung is still happening??
YES, black lung still happens. As long as there is coal mining, there will be a black lung. As well as there being polluted communities.
Huh. I guess I just assumed they had used technology to avoid such things by now. Respirators, filters, mining machinery, etc.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
The coal argument got away from my original point which is that coal is the most cost effective way to produce bulk energy other than nuclear power plants.
how do you define effective? ... producing greenhouse gases? ... causing health related issues?
Black Lung? Community wide illness caused by the coal mines? Greedy CEOs pocketing massive amounts of money while workers don't make much?
I am not familiar with the coal industry because where I live we function on hydro power and natural gas (not that coal mining doesn't still happen in the province, and that is very controversial for environmental reasons), but really? Black lung is still happening??
YES, black lung still happens. As long as there is coal mining, there will be a black lung. As well as there being polluted communities.
Huh. I guess I just assumed they had used technology to avoid such things by now. Respirators, filters, mining machinery, etc.
That would mean that mine CEOs care about their workers.
I've read Big Coal by Jeff Goodall, and all CEOs care about is their deep pockets lined with cash. Ever hear of Massey Energy, coal mine out of VA? A very successful mine, the CEO was recently sent to jail for conspiring to violate federal mine safety laws. Yeah, looking out for worker's health isn't happening.
The coal argument got away from my original point which is that coal is the most cost effective way to produce bulk energy other than nuclear power plants.
how do you define effective? ... producing greenhouse gases? ... causing health related issues?
Black Lung? Community wide illness caused by the coal mines? Greedy CEOs pocketing massive amounts of money while workers don't make much?
I am not familiar with the coal industry because where I live we function on hydro power and natural gas (not that coal mining doesn't still happen in the province, and that is very controversial for environmental reasons), but really? Black lung is still happening??
YES, black lung still happens. As long as there is coal mining, there will be a black lung. As well as there being polluted communities.
Huh. I guess I just assumed they had used technology to avoid such things by now. Respirators, filters, mining machinery, etc.
I don't think people gey black lung to often anymore. Black lugs is caused by long periods of inhaling super fine coal dust. Now, they wet the coal to prevent dusty condition.
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
The coal argument got away from my original point which is that coal is the most cost effective way to produce bulk energy other than nuclear power plants.
how do you define effective? ... producing greenhouse gases? ... causing health related issues?
Black Lung? Community wide illness caused by the coal mines? Greedy CEOs pocketing massive amounts of money while workers don't make much?
I am not familiar with the coal industry because where I live we function on hydro power and natural gas (not that coal mining doesn't still happen in the province, and that is very controversial for environmental reasons), but really? Black lung is still happening??
Just curious who is BC selling coal to? I was speaking to a fellow from Alberta and he claimed there is very little market for coal from Alberta ... basically he said most Alberta coal that is mined is used in Alberta. I honestly thought anyone still burning coal was doing so because it's mined in state/province and used in those states/province which is why I suspect it'd be difficult to get some of those US states off coal. Now maybe he was way off, maybe someone from Alberta or yourself could clarify. And curious as to your thoughts on exporting coal to other jurisdictions for profit? Is that not almost as bad as Quebec (thinking we don't anymore) still mining asbestos even though it has been banned in Canada for some time. Both can cause serious health issues.
BC sells it to China of course. China doesn't give a shit about that stuff - they'll buy all the coal they can get their hands on! And of course the BC government doesn't give a shit. Christy Clark = Yeah, that asbestos thing is shocking... I will never forget that Harper specifically defended the asbestos export industry. It was one of the reasons I hated him so much.
Hmmmm....I just assumed china mined their own coal ... but of course they do use massive amounts of energy...I thought Harper defended asbestos mining, hopefully a ban comes into place.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Yeah, I'm partly to blame. My apologies. As for third parties, it could be argued a third party cost Gore in 2000. Who knows what the world looks like if dumbass never gets elected.
Probabably no war with Iraq...if only we could go back in time.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
The coal argument got away from my original point which is that coal is the most cost effective way to produce bulk energy other than nuclear power plants.
how do you define effective? ... producing greenhouse gases? ... causing health related issues?
I defined it as cost effective.
only if you don't quantify the impacts of using coal ... and it's not really that efficient in terms of energy production ...
nuclear is similar in that people don't want to talk about the ridiculous cost of building and maintaining nuclear ... much of our provincial debt is actually tied into our nuclear power plants here ...
The coal argument got away from my original point which is that coal is the most cost effective way to produce bulk energy other than nuclear power plants.
how do you define effective? ... producing greenhouse gases? ... causing health related issues?
I defined it as cost effective.
only if you don't quantify the impacts of using coal ... and it's not really that efficient in terms of energy production ...
nuclear is similar in that people don't want to talk about the ridiculous cost of building and maintaining nuclear ... much of our provincial debt is actually tied into our nuclear power plants here ...
Don't forget the government subsidies! We pay more for our energy than we realize, because the government pays a portion "for us" with taxpayer's funds.
The coal argument got away from my original point which is that coal is the most cost effective way to produce bulk energy other than nuclear power plants.
how do you define effective? ... producing greenhouse gases? ... causing health related issues?
I defined it as cost effective.
only if you don't quantify the impacts of using coal ... and it's not really that efficient in terms of energy production ...
nuclear is similar in that people don't want to talk about the ridiculous cost of building and maintaining nuclear ... much of our provincial debt is actually tied into our nuclear power plants here ...
How is coal inefficient?
Yes the cost of building and maintaining a nuclear plant is enormous. But, once it is in operation, they run very efficiently. Costs go down.
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
I'm talking about strictly in monetary terms. I'm not considering the environmental or possible health effects of burning coal or using nuclear reactors.
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
I'm talking about strictly in monetary terms. I'm not considering the environmental or possible health effects of burning coal or using nuclear reactors.
Those cost money as well, mostly the costs go to the consumer, but some fall on the producers in the rare instances when the government takes a stand.
The coal argument got away from my original point which is that coal is the most cost effective way to produce bulk energy other than nuclear power plants.
how do you define effective? ... producing greenhouse gases? ... causing health related issues?
I defined it as cost effective.
only if you don't quantify the impacts of using coal ... and it's not really that efficient in terms of energy production ...
nuclear is similar in that people don't want to talk about the ridiculous cost of building and maintaining nuclear ... much of our provincial debt is actually tied into our nuclear power plants here ...
How is coal inefficient?
Yes the cost of building and maintaining a nuclear plant is enormous. But, once it is in operation, they run very efficiently. Costs go down.
when you factor in the resources required to utilize coal and the amount of energy you get from burning coal ... it's pretty inefficient ...
maintenance costs on nuclear are very high ... sure, on the assumption they work ok the first few years - it's cheap ... but as soon as you need a major overhaul - it's massive bucks again ...
with battery technology improving exponentially ... renewables become more and more the obvious choice ...
The coal argument got away from my original point which is that coal is the most cost effective way to produce bulk energy other than nuclear power plants.
how do you define effective? ... producing greenhouse gases? ... causing health related issues?
I defined it as cost effective.
only if you don't quantify the impacts of using coal ... and it's not really that efficient in terms of energy production ...
nuclear is similar in that people don't want to talk about the ridiculous cost of building and maintaining nuclear ... much of our provincial debt is actually tied into our nuclear power plants here ...
How is coal inefficient?
Yes the cost of building and maintaining a nuclear plant is enormous. But, once it is in operation, they run very efficiently. Costs go down.
when you factor in the resources required to utilize coal and the amount of energy you get from burning coal ... it's pretty inefficient ...
maintenance costs on nuclear are very high ... sure, on the assumption they work ok the first few years - it's cheap ... but as soon as you need a major overhaul - it's massive bucks again ...
with battery technology improving exponentially ... renewables become more and more the obvious choice ...
How? How are you going to make the power needed to put in the batteries? How exactly does a battery power a city?
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
The coal argument got away from my original point which is that coal is the most cost effective way to produce bulk energy other than nuclear power plants.
how do you define effective? ... producing greenhouse gases? ... causing health related issues?
I defined it as cost effective.
only if you don't quantify the impacts of using coal ... and it's not really that efficient in terms of energy production ...
nuclear is similar in that people don't want to talk about the ridiculous cost of building and maintaining nuclear ... much of our provincial debt is actually tied into our nuclear power plants here ...
How is coal inefficient?
Yes the cost of building and maintaining a nuclear plant is enormous. But, once it is in operation, they run very efficiently. Costs go down.
when you factor in the resources required to utilize coal and the amount of energy you get from burning coal ... it's pretty inefficient ...
maintenance costs on nuclear are very high ... sure, on the assumption they work ok the first few years - it's cheap ... but as soon as you need a major overhaul - it's massive bucks again ...
with battery technology improving exponentially ... renewables become more and more the obvious choice ...
How? How are you going to make the power needed to put in the batteries? How exactly does a battery power a city?
because the concerns of renewables such as solar and wind become irrelevant with battery storage ... also, the most efficient way to deliver energy needs is to localize it ... if we use coal for example - we mine it in one place ... deliver it far away to plant ... then deliver that electricity to another place which means that often that energy we are converting gets wasted ...
The coal argument got away from my original point which is that coal is the most cost effective way to produce bulk energy other than nuclear power plants.
how do you define effective? ... producing greenhouse gases? ... causing health related issues?
I defined it as cost effective.
only if you don't quantify the impacts of using coal ... and it's not really that efficient in terms of energy production ...
nuclear is similar in that people don't want to talk about the ridiculous cost of building and maintaining nuclear ... much of our provincial debt is actually tied into our nuclear power plants here ...
How is coal inefficient?
Yes the cost of building and maintaining a nuclear plant is enormous. But, once it is in operation, they run very efficiently. Costs go down.
when you factor in the resources required to utilize coal and the amount of energy you get from burning coal ... it's pretty inefficient ...
maintenance costs on nuclear are very high ... sure, on the assumption they work ok the first few years - it's cheap ... but as soon as you need a major overhaul - it's massive bucks again ...
with battery technology improving exponentially ... renewables become more and more the obvious choice ...
How? How are you going to make the power needed to put in the batteries? How exactly does a battery power a city?
because the concerns of renewables such as solar and wind become irrelevant with battery storage ... also, the most efficient way to deliver energy needs is to localize it ... if we use coal for example - we mine it in one place ... deliver it far away to plant ... then deliver that electricity to another place which means that often that energy we are converting gets wasted ...
Look up bloom energy. They manufacture "servers" to provide the localized storage you speak of. As well as a bridge from fossil to renewable.
2000 - 8/21 - Columbus, OH 2003 - 6/18 - Chicago, IL 2006 - 5/22 - Auburn Hills, MI 2007 - 8/5 - Chicago, IL 2015 - 9/26 - New York, NY 2016 - 4/16 - Greenville, SC; 8/20 - Chicago, IL; 8/22 - Chicago, IL 2018 - 8/18 - Chicago, IL; 8/20 - Chicago, IL
The coal argument got away from my original point which is that coal is the most cost effective way to produce bulk energy other than nuclear power plants.
how do you define effective? ... producing greenhouse gases? ... causing health related issues?
I defined it as cost effective.
only if you don't quantify the impacts of using coal ... and it's not really that efficient in terms of energy production ...
nuclear is similar in that people don't want to talk about the ridiculous cost of building and maintaining nuclear ... much of our provincial debt is actually tied into our nuclear power plants here ...
How is coal inefficient?
Yes the cost of building and maintaining a nuclear plant is enormous. But, once it is in operation, they run very efficiently. Costs go down.
when you factor in the resources required to utilize coal and the amount of energy you get from burning coal ... it's pretty inefficient ...
maintenance costs on nuclear are very high ... sure, on the assumption they work ok the first few years - it's cheap ... but as soon as you need a major overhaul - it's massive bucks again ...
with battery technology improving exponentially ... renewables become more and more the obvious choice ...
How? How are you going to make the power needed to put in the batteries? How exactly does a battery power a city?
because the concerns of renewables such as solar and wind become irrelevant with battery storage ... also, the most efficient way to deliver energy needs is to localize it ... if we use coal for example - we mine it in one place ... deliver it far away to plant ... then deliver that electricity to another place which means that often that energy we are converting gets wasted ...
Look up bloom energy. They manufacture "servers" to provide the localized storage you speak of. As well as a bridge from fossil to renewable.
interesting ... will have to look more into that ... thanks ...
Jill Stein just said she wanted to zero out fossil fuels by 2030. No thanks.
Why not? There are millions of jobs to be created and it's what we NEED to do for the future. How will we make plastics and metals for modern life when we are out of oil because we burned it all up for energy?
Do you know how much oil is used to make an MRI machine? AMBU bags, IV tubes, syringes...the list of things we need petrochemicals to make is astounding, burning it all up is not a good idea.
Because regardless of what the "green" people tell you, there is no other cost effective way to produce energy than burning coal. Other than nuclear facilities. I don't see nuclear power plants popping up every where. Wind and solar are not cost effective and they can't produce the megawatts needed efficiently. Plus, that would put me out of a job. There are not enough jobs to be created that wold be lost if the coal industry was shut down. There are not millions of jobs available in the "green" market.
You are buying the company line a little too eagerly. Coal isn't nearly as efficient or cheap as the industry would have you believe. Without the taxpayers subsidizing the fossil fuel industries they would have gone belly-up a generation ago. If those subsidies were redirected to green industries the costs would be competitive in the short run, and would absolutely shred fossil fuels in the long run. And yes, there are millions of jobs available.
Windows and solar would never have existed without subsidies.
Comments
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
http://tvo.org/video/documentaries/big-wind
I'm sure it's a one sided documentary done by tvo and all these people interviewed are crazy, worth the watch...
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
we will find a way, we will find our place
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Wanna go ahead and change the thread title. Lol
we will find a way, we will find our place
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Yeah, that asbestos thing is shocking... I will never forget that Harper specifically defended the asbestos export industry. It was one of the reasons I hated him so much.
we will find a way, we will find our place
2003 - 6/18 - Chicago, IL
2006 - 5/22 - Auburn Hills, MI
2007 - 8/5 - Chicago, IL
2015 - 9/26 - New York, NY
2016 - 4/16 - Greenville, SC; 8/20 - Chicago, IL; 8/22 - Chicago, IL
2018 - 8/18 - Chicago, IL; 8/20 - Chicago, IL
livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=3045
I've read Big Coal by Jeff Goodall, and all CEOs care about is their deep pockets lined with cash. Ever hear of Massey Energy, coal mine out of VA? A very successful mine, the CEO was recently sent to jail for conspiring to violate federal mine safety laws. Yeah, looking out for worker's health isn't happening.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/former-massey-energy-ceo-sentenced-to-12-months-in-prison-1459961064
we will find a way, we will find our place
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
nuclear is similar in that people don't want to talk about the ridiculous cost of building and maintaining nuclear ... much of our provincial debt is actually tied into our nuclear power plants here ...
http://canwea.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/260315-Backgrounder-Big-Wind-Final.pdf
Yes the cost of building and maintaining a nuclear plant is enormous. But, once it is in operation, they run very efficiently. Costs go down.
we will find a way, we will find our place
we will find a way, we will find our place
Don't forget the cost of subsidies either.
maintenance costs on nuclear are very high ... sure, on the assumption they work ok the first few years - it's cheap ... but as soon as you need a major overhaul - it's massive bucks again ...
with battery technology improving exponentially ... renewables become more and more the obvious choice ...
we will find a way, we will find our place
2003 - 6/18 - Chicago, IL
2006 - 5/22 - Auburn Hills, MI
2007 - 8/5 - Chicago, IL
2015 - 9/26 - New York, NY
2016 - 4/16 - Greenville, SC; 8/20 - Chicago, IL; 8/22 - Chicago, IL
2018 - 8/18 - Chicago, IL; 8/20 - Chicago, IL
livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=3045