Are we better off or worse off today than in the past? How so, when and why?

brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,033
I'm stealing this idea from a couple of other threads since the topic has come up a few times.

The question is: In general, are we better off than we were since (just to narrow it down further than 10's of thousands of years or 4,000 years if you're a Biblical literalist) any time in the last 100 years or so? When and how were things worse or better?
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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Comments

  • The old anthropicprinciple.
  • jnimhaoileoinjnimhaoileoin Posts: 2,682
    edited July 2016
    Off the top of my head

    Better: medical care, sanitation, nutrition (though perhaps arguable with the level of obesity and sugar content in food), education, women's rights, gay and lesbian rights

    Worse: Proliferation of nuclear weapons and general weapons of mass destruction, loss of languages, rise in tensions between the 'West' and the Islamic nations, loss of innocence as children grow up way too fast, drug problems, homelessness

    Technology I see as both a positive and a negative. It connects and isolates us at the same time
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,033

    The old anthropicprinciple.

    Biocentric views are more than welcome, of course!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 Posts: 23,303
    are you talking about personally or as a species?
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    How is "we" defined?

    And really, why limit the past to a specific timeline?

    Might give a skewed view / response.

  • jnimhaoileoinjnimhaoileoin Posts: 2,682
    hedonist said:

    How is "we" defined?

    And really, why limit the past to a specific timeline?

    Might give a skewed view / response.

    I roughly went based on now vs 100 years ago
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    edited July 2016
    I

    hedonist said:

    How is "we" defined?

    And really, why limit the past to a specific timeline?

    Might give a skewed view / response.

    I roughly went based on now vs 100 years ago
    Hi, Jenny.

    Again, the "we" factor plays a part. Overall we as humans, or inhabitants, or what? Or we as individuals?

    I thought of now vs. when I was a kid.

    Now vs. when I was 15.

    Now vs. 15 years ago, just pre-9/11.

    Post, too.

    I wonder if better or worse isn't so cut-and-dried. Actually, I know it isn't. (edited, ironically, to add a fucking period back there) Colors and shades always present themselves, in the best and awful of our personal and overall eras. Even the mundane.

    Really agree with the last part of your post a bit further up.

    And gimme, ha! Nice we can be on the same wavelength at times.

    Post edited by hedonist on
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,529

    Off the top of my head

    Better: medical care, sanitation, nutrition (though perhaps arguable with the level of obesity and sugar content in food), education, women's rights, gay and lesbian rights

    Worse: Proliferation of nuclear weapons and general weapons of mass destruction, loss of languages, rise in tensions between the 'West' and the Islamic nations, loss of innocence as children grow up way too fast, drug problems, homelessness

    Technology I see as both a positive and a negative. It connects and isolates us at the same time

    for the underlined....what? were you not alive during the cold war when both the US and Russia had nuclear warheads aimed at each other and had the capability to blow each other off the face of the map? there are way less nuclear weapons today than during the cold war. not close.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 Posts: 23,303
    pjhawks said:

    Off the top of my head

    Better: medical care, sanitation, nutrition (though perhaps arguable with the level of obesity and sugar content in food), education, women's rights, gay and lesbian rights

    Worse: Proliferation of nuclear weapons and general weapons of mass destruction, loss of languages, rise in tensions between the 'West' and the Islamic nations, loss of innocence as children grow up way too fast, drug problems, homelessness

    Technology I see as both a positive and a negative. It connects and isolates us at the same time

    for the underlined....what? were you not alive during the cold war when both the US and Russia had nuclear warheads aimed at each other and had the capability to blow each other off the face of the map? there are way less nuclear weapons today than during the cold war. not close.
    russia had nukes 90 miles from the us in cuba. that was the closest we have ever come to nuclear war. i thank buddha that jfk was in power then. could you imagine if it were a hothead like lbj, nixon, or trump?
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,033

    are you talking about personally or as a species?

    Good question. As a species or civilization or nation.

    Personally-wise, you're always cool gimme, so that doesn't count!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,033
    hedonist said:

    How is "we" defined?

    And really, why limit the past to a specific timeline?

    Might give a skewed view / response.

    See above.

    Also, any time might be interesting.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    brianlux said:

    hedonist said:

    How is "we" defined?

    And really, why limit the past to a specific timeline?

    Might give a skewed view / response.

    See above.

    Also, any time might be interesting.
    Alright then!

    Guess I've supposedly contributed.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 Posts: 23,303
    brianlux said:

    are you talking about personally or as a species?

    Good question. As a species or civilization or nation.

    Personally-wise, you're always cool gimme, so that doesn't count!
    i don't think i could speak for the whole of the human race. some people still live under some pretty brutal regimes in some brutal conditions.

    we aren't perfect. far from it. but i think in general most people in our society are better off than they would have been 50 years ago. we have made some great scientific advances. there is less poverty. medicine is better. live expectancy is better. there is less pollution. we still have way too much religion involved in our cultures and our governments though. i don't think the human race can ever fully move forward until they stop following a book about an invisible man and a ghost that tells them how to live when they can't make those decisions for themselves.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,033
    hedonist said:

    brianlux said:

    hedonist said:

    How is "we" defined?

    And really, why limit the past to a specific timeline?

    Might give a skewed view / response.

    See above.

    Also, any time might be interesting.
    Alright then!

    Guess I've supposedly contributed.
    Hmmm. Not sure we should let you off that easy, haha.

    Seriously, do you think society, our species, or even just your country is better off or worse off? I'm leaving it open because what prompted this were comments elsewhere (that were also a bit vague) about how we are better off or worse off than we used to be.

    That make the question a bit easier if you chose your own parameters. How about the greater Los Angles basin. Are things better now than they were 10 or 20 years ago?
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • jnimhaoileoinjnimhaoileoin Posts: 2,682
    brianlux said:

    hedonist said:

    brianlux said:

    hedonist said:

    How is "we" defined?

    And really, why limit the past to a specific timeline?

    Might give a skewed view / response.

    See above.

    Also, any time might be interesting.
    Alright then!

    Guess I've supposedly contributed.
    Hmmm. Not sure we should let you off that easy, haha.

    Seriously, do you think society, our species, or even just your country is better off or worse off? I'm leaving it open because what prompted this were comments elsewhere (that were also a bit vague) about how we are better off or worse off than we used to be.

    That make the question a bit easier if you chose your own parameters. How about the greater Los Angles basin. Are things better now than they were 10 or 20 years ago?
    Hedo aren't you in Canada???
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 Posts: 23,303
    i think the answer depends on who you ask.

    if i asked someone from rwanda in the 1990s if they are better off now they would probably say that they were.

    if i asked a palestinian living in occupied territory they would probably say they aren't.

    everyone has their own experience and their own perspective. unfortunately none of us were around 100 years ago to be able to tell.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    brianlux said:

    hedonist said:

    brianlux said:

    hedonist said:

    How is "we" defined?

    And really, why limit the past to a specific timeline?

    Might give a skewed view / response.

    See above.

    Also, any time might be interesting.
    Alright then!

    Guess I've supposedly contributed.
    Hmmm. Not sure we should let you off that easy, haha.

    Seriously, do you think society, our species, or even just your country is better off or worse off? I'm leaving it open because what prompted this were comments elsewhere (that were also a bit vague) about how we are better off or worse off than we used to be.

    That make the question a bit easier if you chose your own parameters. How about the greater Los Angles basin. Are things better now than they were 10 or 20 years ago?
    Well, my initial response came from the heart and with sincerity, so no haha's needed...nor letting me off "easy".

    Damn.. I commented honestly earlier up there. Cool to request clarification, no? And maybe see things differently?

    Different doesn't mean heads butting. Maybe people can learn from each other.

    You're asking now about society, species, country, my parameters (my little mind didn't need easier questions, just clarification).

    Each bear a different answer, so I can't give one sweeping response to all of this.

    As to being better off. Personally, yeah! And have worked for it, in work and in life and in living.

    And in that, I can pass some of that on, of my own accord.

  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524

    brianlux said:

    hedonist said:

    brianlux said:

    hedonist said:

    How is "we" defined?

    And really, why limit the past to a specific timeline?

    Might give a skewed view / response.

    See above.

    Also, any time might be interesting.
    Alright then!

    Guess I've supposedly contributed.
    Hmmm. Not sure we should let you off that easy, haha.

    Seriously, do you think society, our species, or even just your country is better off or worse off? I'm leaving it open because what prompted this were comments elsewhere (that were also a bit vague) about how we are better off or worse off than we used to be.

    That make the question a bit easier if you chose your own parameters. How about the greater Los Angles basin. Are things better now than they were 10 or 20 years ago?
    Hedo aren't you in Canada???
    Jenny, I am a native Angelino.

    Angelina?

    Bottom line, born, raised and living in Los Angeles :)
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,033
    Here’s my take. For what it’s worth (got a dime?):

    I think the world as a whole, both civilization and life in general on the planet, are generally worse off than 50 years ago (I like that number) yet with greater potential for it all to be much better than at any point in time in history since the dawn of agriculture (Everything pre-agriculture was totally natural which is my definition of nirvana).

    We are worse off because we are seeing more frequent wars and greater instability OK,

    Bay of Pigs was bad but short lived and the cold war is basically still going on).

    There is an increase in violent incidences, particularly with regard to terrorist acts).

    There have been break outs of disease in the form of epidemics but our over-use of antibiotics presents us with a strong threat of pandemic.

    Humans have changed the climate of the planet by using the atmosphere to dump far too much carbon (starting with the Industrial Revolution and moving forward).

    Our population is still rapidly increasing starting at 2.6 billion people 65 years ago to 7.4 billion today to (projected) 9.7 billion to (projected) 11.2 billion in 2100.

    Species loss due to human interference (particularly habitat loss) is increasing and is man, many times greater than pre Industrial Revolution times.

    Pollution and radiation and mocro-waves are ubiquitous and increasing.


    And yet we possess great potential for so much good. The internet gives us access to great amounts of information. Biodiversity is researched at amazing speed today and understanding diversity is a key so slowing species loss. Education is spreading around the world. Communication is easier and faster. Medical advances are increasing. Technology, which has caused many of the problems, also holds many of the answers.

    I think we have great hope if we choose to move in that direction.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • jnimhaoileoinjnimhaoileoin Posts: 2,682
    hedonist said:

    brianlux said:

    hedonist said:

    brianlux said:

    hedonist said:

    How is "we" defined?

    And really, why limit the past to a specific timeline?

    Might give a skewed view / response.

    See above.

    Also, any time might be interesting.
    Alright then!

    Guess I've supposedly contributed.
    Hmmm. Not sure we should let you off that easy, haha.

    Seriously, do you think society, our species, or even just your country is better off or worse off? I'm leaving it open because what prompted this were comments elsewhere (that were also a bit vague) about how we are better off or worse off than we used to be.

    That make the question a bit easier if you chose your own parameters. How about the greater Los Angles basin. Are things better now than they were 10 or 20 years ago?
    Hedo aren't you in Canada???
    Jenny, I am a native Angelino.

    Angelina?

    Bottom line, born, raised and living in Los Angeles :)
    Why on earth was it so fixed in my mind that you're Canadian? :tongue:
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    edited July 2016

    hedonist said:

    brianlux said:

    hedonist said:

    brianlux said:

    hedonist said:

    How is "we" defined?

    And really, why limit the past to a specific timeline?

    Might give a skewed view / response.

    See above.

    Also, any time might be interesting.
    Alright then!

    Guess I've supposedly contributed.
    Hmmm. Not sure we should let you off that easy, haha.

    Seriously, do you think society, our species, or even just your country is better off or worse off? I'm leaving it open because what prompted this were comments elsewhere (that were also a bit vague) about how we are better off or worse off than we used to be.

    That make the question a bit easier if you chose your own parameters. How about the greater Los Angles basin. Are things better now than they were 10 or 20 years ago?
    Hedo aren't you in Canada???
    Jenny, I am a native Angelino.

    Angelina?

    Bottom line, born, raised and living in Los Angeles :)
    Why on earth was it so fixed in my mind that you're Canadian? :tongue:
    Because she's cool.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    edited July 2016

    hedonist said:

    brianlux said:

    hedonist said:

    brianlux said:

    hedonist said:

    How is "we" defined?

    And really, why limit the past to a specific timeline?

    Might give a skewed view / response.

    See above.

    Also, any time might be interesting.
    Alright then!

    Guess I've supposedly contributed.
    Hmmm. Not sure we should let you off that easy, haha.

    Seriously, do you think society, our species, or even just your country is better off or worse off? I'm leaving it open because what prompted this were comments elsewhere (that were also a bit vague) about how we are better off or worse off than we used to be.

    That make the question a bit easier if you chose your own parameters. How about the greater Los Angles basin. Are things better now than they were 10 or 20 years ago?
    Hedo aren't you in Canada???
    Jenny, I am a native Angelino.

    Angelina?

    Bottom line, born, raised and living in Los Angeles :)
    Why on earth was it so fixed in my mind that you're Canadian? :tongue:
    Because she's cool.
    Aw, Thirty. Thanks, and backatcha.

    We need a friendly / gentle-punch-in-the-arm emoticon thingie :)

    (Kat and Sea, please get on this)

    *edit - the Canadian reference was not lost on me! I think quite highly of my northern neighbors.
    Post edited by hedonist on
  • TL170678TL170678 Posts: 422
    It`s obviously better now, we got Pearl Jam, they did not!
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    It's all relative. One could say that we now have toilets and air conditioning and TVs and those are things that make today better. Another could say that all of those things are destroying the environment and society. Over all, most of us have better living conditions these days. Having running water, sewage, heating, cooling was pretty much only reserved for the wealthiest in the not so distant past. Modern farming practices are somewhat better than 100 years ago, although not without some flaws still. There are so many facets to this question that can be argued and rebutted...good things to ponder today.
  • DegeneratefkDegeneratefk Posts: 3,123
    Are we better off than we were 100 hears ago? Yes of course.

    50 years ago? Yes

    25 years ago? Yes.

    10 years ago? Yes.

    With the advances in technology, medicine, civil rights, and communication we are always better off than we were.
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    edited July 2016
    Personally, I believe that the 90s was a decade worthy of being better than any latter decade. Pre-9/11, this country was a better, saner, happier and less plugged in place.

    And there were no phones at concerts. We had lighters, lots of 'em. And fans actually lived in the moment.
    Post edited by Free on
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    PJPOWER said:

    It's all relative. One could say that we now have toilets and air conditioning and TVs and those are things that make today better. Another could say that all of those things are destroying the environment and society. Over all, most of us have better living conditions these days. Having running water, sewage, heating, cooling was pretty much only reserved for the wealthiest in the not so distant past. Modern farming practices are somewhat better than 100 years ago, although not without some flaws still. There are so many facets to this question that can be argued and rebutted...good things to ponder today.

    Yes! Well-said.

  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,033
    Free said:

    Personally, I believe that the 90s was a decade worthy of being better than any latter decade. Pre-9/11, this country was a better, saner, happier and less plugged in place.

    And there were no phones at concerts. We had lighters, lots of 'em. And fans actually lived in the moment.

    I hear that!

    One thing that is DEFINITELY better that the past: dental care. My dentist reminded me that 100 years ago the town blacksmith assisted the dentist because he was the only one strong enough to hold anybody while a tooth was being pulled. Ouch!!

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,086
    Thanks for posting this topic. I think it's hugely important and it's something I think about often. My take is that things are better now than they ever have been in the past, except for the stress on the planet. I see people take on a negative outlook, or that they see everything on a downward trend, and then they fall into negative emotions/pessimism. They start then looking for things to confirm that outlook, and they don't see things that oppose it. The thing that bothers me on a larger scale is when leaders and politicians use this negative outlook to manipulate people, sell goods, get votes, etc. "Our country is on a path of destruction unless you vote for me!" Of course, people have been predicting our demise for over 200 years, though. The struggle is balancing the dramatic, anecdotal stories with actual facts. What's happening now, vs. measurable trends over time.

    This made me think of something my wife said the other day. It was after the Orlando shooting, and she was really trying to see the positive in people. While I ran into Trader Joe's, she waited in the car. In that short time, she saw strangers being nice to each other randomly: one person dropped their credit card and another person picked it up and chased them down to give it back, another stopped a runaway cart from hitting a parked car, and a third person was helping hold someone's hatch up when they loaded their groceries. These things weren't major, but it points out how when you intentionally shift your focus to the good, you end up seeing the good.
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,086
    brianlux said:



    Free said:

    Personally, I believe that the 90s was a decade worthy of being better than any latter decade. Pre-9/11, this country was a better, saner, happier and less plugged in place.

    And there were no phones at concerts. We had lighters, lots of 'em. And fans actually lived in the moment.

    I hear that!

    One thing that is DEFINITELY better that the past: dental care. My dentist reminded me that 100 years ago the town blacksmith assisted the dentist because he was the only one strong enough to hold anybody while a tooth was being pulled. Ouch!!

    There's a book about President Garfield that focuses a lot on his medical care after he was shot. The doctors basically end up killing the poor guy.
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