Bonnaroo Ticket Sales Plummet (PJ receives some blame)

Vedder4Prez

http://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2016/07/14/bonnaroos-ticket-sales-plummet-28000/87003736/

glennb2112

There is enough blame to go around but without PJ the ticket sales would heave been even less.

PJ_Soul

Even I am not drawn into a festival that Pearl Jam is headlining, so yeah, I can see how that might be a factor.
But another big factor now is, IMO, comfort levels. People are just more spoiled now, and as that article brings up, spending hundreds of dollars to basically spend days being physically uncomfortable just isn't as "appealing" anymore. Younger people have higher expectations when it comes to comfort and are less willing to "tough it out" for the music compared to their forebearers (us when we were younger). Fair enough. I'm right there with them on that. Also, I agree that the acts need to change. Music festivals somehow have to attract masses of 18 - 24 year olds to an overcrowded, hot-ass field to be successful, and no one is going to manage that by headlining Pearl Jam.
I also think music fests have to change their dates. Again, it's the expectation of minimal comfort thing. I don't think that music festivals in super hot locations during the summer work anymore. Bonnaroo should move to October or something.

weddingparade

mickey hart reminded ed that live nation recently took over the festival and reminded him that live nation is the DEVIL
im quite glad live nation is not WINNING and mickey is spot on. F ROO

PJ_Soul

Yeah, I seriously doubt that ticket sales plummeting like that in the first year of sales since Live Nation took over is a coincidence. Still, Pearl Jam fans are just too old now. Bonnaroo needs to keep it younger.

Suziemay

They should try selling 1-day tickets. That may help.

kasedoug

The festival market as a whole has become a bit watered down with so many out there now. And with bands basically traveling from festival to festival over the summer, all the lineups start to look sort of the same. A lineup has to be really unique to be able to influence the out-of-town draw. Look at how many festivals the big headlining acts are playing, and especially the notable "reunion" acts of a given year like Outkast a few years back or now LCD Soundsystem this year. They're playing so many that there's really no reason to travel. I missed Coachella for the first time in six years this year, and both GNR are LCD Soundsystem (two of this year's headliners) will be playing LA in August less than 10 miles from my house. No reason to spend a bunch of $$$ and drive two hours out into the desert to see them.

PJ_Soul

Suziemay said:

They should try selling 1-day tickets. That may help.

Absolutely.

my2hands

weddingparade said:

mickey hart reminded ed that live nation recently took over the festival and reminded him that live nation is the DEVIL
im quite glad live nation is not WINNING and mickey is spot on. F ROO

What exactly are you talking about?

JWPearl

Who knows

Zod

I suppose the problem with that... is the Seattle era (early-mid 90's era of rock) is the last big era of rock music. The music world has become fragmented. We had the radio, and the radio pushed bands like Pearl Jam and Nirvana. We were all listening to them. Now it's the internet, and there's alot of artists out there, but "big" artists (at least in the rock world) seem few and far between after the last great era of Rock.

What post PJ/Foo Fighters area rock bands can you find out there that can be a big draw for festival tickets? I've often wondered what happen's to festival onces the big band epic bands (that became famous in the radio days) are gone. Other than the odd pop artist/hip hop artist you don't get really big musicians with really long careers that can fill arena's/stadium's on their own.

edit: I completely agree about the age thing and festivals. I was going back in my head and I haven't really gone to non PJ festival since Lolla '93. In '09 I went to see PJ at the Virgin Music Festival in Calagary and this year at Pemberton.

Pemberton really seems like a lot of effort. Have to drive the hour to whistler (from the ferry), then take a shuttle bus to the venue. Then have to deal with 30000 or 40000 people in an all GA environment. I'd much prefer an arena show, but I'll take what I can get

my2hands

PJ headlined the 2 lowest attendance years since 2006... interesting

PJ_Soul

Zod said:

I suppose the problem with that... is the Seattle era (early-mid 90's era of rock) is the last big era of rock music. The music world has become fragmented. We had the radio, and the radio pushed bands like Pearl Jam and Nirvana. We were all listening to them. Now it's the internet, and there's alot of artists out there, but "big" artists (at least in the rock world) seem few and far between after the last great era of Rock.

What post PJ/Foo Fighters area rock bands can you find out there that can be a big draw for festival tickets? I've often wondered what happen's to festival onces the big band epic bands (that became famous in the radio days) are gone. Other than the odd pop artist/hip hop artist you don't get really big musicians with really long careers that can fill arena's/stadium's on their own.

Headliners need to be acts like Beyonce, Drake, Kanye (?? Do people still like him??), Rihanna, Jay-Z, Taylor Swift, Justin Bieber, maybe Ed Sheeran.
I do not think rock is dead at all, like some old people like to claim. But I do see that rock isn't king anymore. It's still a draw, but not a big dirty festival draw. Jack White seems capable of big sales though, to give him a huge amount of credit. Last JW show I went to had a very big and enthusiastic youth contingency, and he seemed to do well with Bonnaroo. But yeah, as far as younger rock bands go, they are more niche now. They can kill club shows and small theatres, but.... The youngest rock band I can think of that can really sell arenas and be a decent headliner is maybe The Killers, and they have been around for well over 10 years. But they do have a young following. Maybe QOTSA can be given a point too. They draw in more younger people than most older rock bands too. Could either of those bands carry Bonnaroo? I don't know... but they'd almost certainly be a bigger draw than PJ.

And yet, PJ can sell out two night stands at Wrigley and Fenway. Clearly, the issue is the festival format and who wants to attend those. Not PJ fans, for the most part.

JWPearl

Zod said:

I suppose the problem with that... is the Seattle era (early-mid 90's era of rock) is the last big era of rock music. The music world has become fragmented. We had the radio, and the radio pushed bands like Pearl Jam and Nirvana. We were all listening to them. Now it's the internet, and there's alot of artists out there, but "big" artists (at least in the rock world) seem few and far between after the last great era of Rock.

What post PJ/Foo Fighters area rock bands can you find out there that can be a big draw for festival tickets? I've often wondered what happen's to festival onces the big band epic bands (that became famous in the radio days) are gone. Other than the odd pop artist/hip hop artist you don't get really big musicians with really long careers that can fill arena's/stadium's on their own.

I really wouldn't know...
But I do say that live nation "knows" what they are doing and everybody else (well not everybody) knows they are no good

rbhester

Apps like Periscope have a lot to do with this, especially at festivals. That ties into the banning cell service at concerts. Why go stand in the Tennessee summer heat and shell out money when you can watch on your phone for basically free (sans data charges if applicable). As much as some of us love the experience of being there, some feel they can save the $ and still watch from their easy chair.

PJ_Soul

rbhester said:

Apps like Periscope have a lot to do with this, especially at festivals. That ties into the banning cell service at concerts. Why go stand in the Tennessee summer heat and shell out money when you can watch on your phone for basically free (sans data charges if applicable). As much as some of us love the experience of being there, some feel they can save the $ and still watch from their easy chair.

I am not convinced of this. I would need to see some stats/proof.

Zod

Yah I can't believe periscope is a substitute for going to shows. That's like say concert dvd's/bluray's kill the concert industry. Periscope is way worse than a concert dvd/bluray. I can't see people replacing concerts with periscope.

Another possibility is that the price of concert tickets is hitting the point where it makes it cost prohibitive for young people to go. No more $35 lollapalooza's that I grew up with.

RunIntoTheRain

rbhester said:

Apps like Periscope have a lot to do with this, especially at festivals. That ties into the banning cell service at concerts. Why go stand in the Tennessee summer heat and shell out money when you can watch on your phone for basically free (sans data charges if applicable). As much as some of us love the experience of being there, some feel they can save the $ and still watch from their easy chair.

I disagree. While Periscope is great, it doesn't replace the experience of being there AT ALL. I seriously doubt anyone says to themselves "oh let's not go to the concert because we can watch it on periscope for free."

Weston1283

I'm 24, and I'm pretty sure that most of these festivals cater to people my age for the most part. Here is the issue that almost ALL of my friends say:

There's just too many festivals now.

You can literally go to a music festival every weekend if you want. And outside of the headliners, it's the same 90% of bands that just tour festivals all summer.

So it's the headliners that is what will sell. Pearl Jam, LCD Soundsystem and Dead and Co. Are great, no doubt. BUT, all three of them together? As much as we like them all, there's almost NO appeal there to 18-26 year olds.

If you want an older Jam band, you need to accompany it with a major modern act, let's say a Taylor Swift, Eminem, or whatever it may be. You need atleast 1/3 headliners to cater to that younger crowd that tends to fill most of these festivals.

OnWis97

I would not go so far as to say that PJ receives some blame...though they are not identified as a headliner on par with the super-popular pop acts. But really, while, say Beyonce has way more fans than PJ, the travel factor has to at least in part offset it. Nobody travels far to see a pop act; they go to the closest show to their house.

I suspect the reason is a combination of all the things mentioned: PJ's fanbase getting older and not wanting to live in squalor for four days, younger people are more comfortable than they used to be and the romance of these things is lost, the overall headliners (including PJ) were not huge grabbers of the general base, and the LiveNation factor.

From my standpoint, I was considering it (and we have friends in Tennessee) after not being able to make the April/May shows work. Knowing nothing about it, I was scarred of by the enormous costs. I figured you could get a one-day pass and drop in for that day. I am personally not hard-core enough to do that for four days and I am not interested in spending that much money to have one short Pearl Jam show and a lot of misery, poor hygene, and bands I don't follow.

I honestly wonder, though, if PJ was not touring this year, how much difference that would have made. Our trips to Wrigley, Fenway, Philly, NYC, etc. probably kept us away.

In any case, I would be really upset had I gone. The rain delay, the all-hits set. It would not have been worth it.

primussucks

My idea of fun isnt spending 3 or 4 days in high heat, high humidity, having a shit view of the few bands i want to see, and sharing that with 50,000 other people and many bands i have zero interest in seeing! Nobody could pay me to go to Bonnaroo! I just got back from the Ride Festival and had the time of my life! High temps were in the 70's. Dry heat so zero humidity. Night temps were in the 40's but if you were prepared for it, it made perfect sleeping conditions. Beautiful scenery. 1 stage! It was perfect!!

pjsteelerfan

Zod said:

Yah I can't believe periscope is a substitute for going to shows. That's like say concert dvd's/bluray's kill the concert industry. Periscope is way worse than a concert dvd/bluray. I can't see people replacing concerts with periscope.

Another possibility is that the price of concert tickets is hitting the point where it makes it cost prohibitive for young people to go. No more $35 lollapalooza's that I grew up with.

Maybe not Periscope, but I watched more than a few acts at the festivals official live stream of concerts. ACL, Lallapalooza, etc. Most do that these days.

weddingparade

live nation ruins everything so i blame them. besides, no one wants to support the devil. bill graham is rolling over in his grave as i type this.
http://www.referenceforbusiness.com/history2/54/Live-Nation-Inc.html

JWPearl

Who would go through all this trouble if it means only little to them but to cheer their folks
Seriously if you don't know any better you won't sell your livelyhood to go see a band at this young generation because of word of mouth, when you can just leave that venture for the folks to sort out
I think the people are just too young to really grasp pearl jam
All they know is they are a wealthy band that like smashing guitars
No idea one of the top bands of its era and monopolises and influences other bands
If you can imagine...
Only the young ones who gone with their folks would really know....

rbhester

RunIntoTheRain said:

rbhester said:

Apps like Periscope have a lot to do with this, especially at festivals. That ties into the banning cell service at concerts. Why go stand in the Tennessee summer heat and shell out money when you can watch on your phone for basically free (sans data charges if applicable). As much as some of us love the experience of being there, some feel they can save the $ and still watch from their easy chair.

I disagree. While Periscope is great, it doesn't replace the experience of being there AT ALL. I seriously doubt anyone says to themselves "oh let's not go to the concert because we can watch it on periscope for free."

It doesn't replace it for the diehards as I stated when I said some of us. However, I know for a fact 5 people that did who live in Nashville who skipped Roo and watched on Periscope and stated they otherwise may have gone to see PJ. A "normal"/headline show would be different they each said, but the festival they avoided when they could watch it on their phones. That's 5 people that just I know. Not saying I share their view, but if you want some proof, there it is.

PJ_Soul

pjsteelerfan said:

Zod said:

Yah I can't believe periscope is a substitute for going to shows. That's like say concert dvd's/bluray's kill the concert industry. Periscope is way worse than a concert dvd/bluray. I can't see people replacing concerts with periscope.

Another possibility is that the price of concert tickets is hitting the point where it makes it cost prohibitive for young people to go. No more $35 lollapalooza's that I grew up with.

Maybe not Periscope, but I watched more than a few acts at the festivals official live stream of concerts. ACL, Lallapalooza, etc. Most do that these days.

Yeah, the people who weren't going to go to the show either way.

BF89905

Spending all day out in a field is not on my to-do list anymore. I have never been to a Pearl Jam show at a festival, primarily because I have little to no interest in any of the other bands that they're surrounded by. If I ever see Pearl Jam at a festival, it will most likely happen when the band is somewhere in Europe and I'm fortunate enough to be over there too - with tickets to a show or two.

PJ_Soul

Cost is definitely a huge factor. I know that is the ONLY reason I am not going up to Pemberton to see PJ on Sunday. $170 just for only one day plus expenses, all to stand in a crowded field and use filthy Porta-potties? No thanks, and I am a superfan. The prices for festivals now are outrageous, and of course 18 - 26 year olds aren't into that. $380 for a full festival, minimum? That's nuts. The industry is pricing itself right out of the market.

JojoRice

I have no desire to pay $300+ for a festival and have to deal with all of the extra headaches. This is why I skipped out on their Music Midtown gig here in Atlanta a few years ago too. PJ is the only band I wanted to see. Would much rather see them at their own show and be able to get tickets through 10C.

Sarava

I think that Pearl Jam was playing all over the east coast (and even Lexington, KY) leading up to this festival probably hurt their sales a lot.

To put it bluntly - we had far better options for traveling to seeing PJ than going to Bonnaroo. I did a 4 day weekend in NYC with my wife and we had an amazing time!

bigdeath

Doesn't help that none of the main headliners (PJ, Dead and LCD) were exclusive to this festival and had their own tours in major cities across the US.

Also, there is a severe amount of fest overload. Here is a list of just some of the fests taking place in Chicago, not counting all the free ones in Grant Park (Taste, Jazz, Reggae, Blue, etc) and the multitude of block parties every other weekend this summer. I can't even keep up with the ones in my city, let alone ones I would have to travel to.

Lolla
Pitchfork
Riotfest
North Coast
Spring Awakening
Mamby on the Beach