California and Mary-Jane

brianlux

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

Many users and growers in California are against legalization.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/01/california-marijuana-pot-legalization-initiative-2016

Of course they are. They don't want their drugs regulated. If I was just thinking of myself, I wouldn't want it legalized in Canada either, since I am made in the shade with the way things are now. And obviously dealers don't want it (any grower who isn't selling and is against is lying about not selling it IMO). But keeping it illegal is simply horribly unjust, not to mention the tax revenue. For those two reasons, I have to support legalization. I do have concerns about it though, as someone who currently has a medical card. I'm worried that legalization will increase the price, and reduce the quality. Both of those things would really really suck (although perhaps medical prices will be lower than recreational, who knows).

That said, I VERY much agree that the current illegal sellers and growers, depending on how they currently conduct their businesses, should be very involved in creating the legal market. They are the experts. I'm not talking about fucking Hell's Angels and other slimeballs, lol. I mean the growers and sellers who actually run real, organized businesses (even though they are illegal). There are tons of them. I think they need to be heavily involved, since no one in government or anyone else knows wtf they're doing when it comes to weed.

Yeah, I agree with much of what you say here. I think it's important to understand that many of the growers her in CA are good people making a fine product and that what many do not realize is that legalization will cause personal havoc for many growers and a destabilized economy in some areas of the state as well as potential lessening of cannabis quality due to regulation and/or inexperienced "legal" growers. One the other hand, not all current growers are conscientious about environmental impact and water usage in drought areas. This is a complicated issues with many consequences and potential negative affects most people don't know about or consider. It's a difficult issue to be sure.

Over all, to my way of thinking, things are fine here the way they are. Marijuana is common in most parts of California (even in my conservative community I see people smoking it discretely in public), it is decriminalized to the point of already being all but legal, it is easy to procure, and the quality is... well, gosh, how would I know?

No, I would imagine that if current growers are brought into the industry, as I think they must be, they would be subject to pretty strict regulations, especially when it comes to water usage and environmental impact. Yes, that complicates things for them... well, basically it will mean that many of them won't be able to get a license to grow legally, which means they'll be shut down. Hopefully California would allow them some decent opportunities to bring their operations up to code though. In Vancouver, where the city's government is now starting to license dispensaries, they did allow a pretty long period of time for the operators to conform to their regulations, which are pretty damned strict (in some cases stupid). And many of the operators worked their butts up to meet their demands. However, the government went about fucking most of them over. They kept declining appeals, they rejected applications almost arbitrarily while the operators were trying hard to make things work. So there is plenty of bullshit for these guys to wade through even in the process of legalizing. To me it seems like the government almost feels obligated to make it very difficult, like if they don't drag their feet and put up road blocks they will be accused of being too lenient. Again, that's here where I am and a local issue, but I can imagine larger government doing the exact same thing.

Brian, aren't there still people going to prison over marijuana growing and dealing though, depending on quanities? If so, that can't be just fine the way they are. If not, then yeah, it's just a tax grab, really. But at least people can still grow their own if they want..... not that that is easy.

For sure. There are and always will be people who abuse a situation.

I agree that government intervention in this is going to make a mess of things. That doesn't mean government or regulations are a bad thing in-of-themselves. Government is obviously broken here in the US. I think we all know that.

lukin2006

It shouldn't have to be on any ballet ... It's none of the governments fucking business or anyone's business...booze, tobacco, sugar and a multitude of other legal products cause way fucking more harm than weed. But I would think it'll pass easily in California.

my2hands

Godfather. said:

I watched a story on History about weed and positive effects on the economy and was really surprised ....and thinking about it on a personal user level (not me, I don't smoke) it's really none of my business what anybody does as long as they don't involve me.

Godfather.

You just figured that out?

MJ is currently my main soap box issue (and the SS tax cap that literally no Americans seem to know about)

People are so misinformed and brain washed by decades of propaganda... thank god it's slowly changing though

PJ_Soul

Very interesting article here about Portugal's decriminalization tactics. I don't approve of this tactic with weed - that should just be treated like booze. But for drugs that are more destructive this seems like a pretty good system.

https://news.vice.com/article/ungass-portugal-what-happened-after-decriminalization-drugs-weed-to-heroin

oftenreading

PJ_Soul said:

Very interesting article here about Portugal's decriminalization tactics. I don't approve of this tactic with weed - that should just be treated like booze. But for drugs that are more destructive this seems like a pretty good system.

https://news.vice.com/article/ungass-portugal-what-happened-after-decriminalization-drugs-weed-to-heroin

Thanks for posting that article. Portugal's experience is a fascinating and instructive one. I particularly like the last paragraph, which points out that drug use should be viewed in a public health model, not a criminal justice model. Putting the focus on maximizing the health of citizens rather than using the justice system as a hammer is the way out of the futile morass that is current drug policy in most jurisdictions.

what dreams

jeffbr said:

(and since I was used to paying $25 for an 1/8th I wasn't interested).

Dang, I haven't paid $50 a quarter since the 90s. There is something terribly wrong with the underground drug economy on the east coast!

mookeywrench

Another downside to pot legalization is that drug dealers have now shifted to heroin as their primary drug to push.

myoung321

ssshhhhh listen...,,,,,,,,,,,,, a topic on the train that is agreed on ... nice sound!

PJ_Soul

mookeywrench said:

Another downside to pot legalization is that drug dealers have now shifted to heroin as they're primary drug to push.

That's why I think all drugs should be legalized. Drug prohibition is stupid.

mookeywrench

double post.

lukin2006

PJ_Soul said:

mookeywrench said:

Another downside to pot legalization is that drug dealers have now shifted to heroin as they're primary drug to push.

That's why I think all drugs should be legalized. Drug prohibition is stupid.

I've said that very same thing to people ... And the looks I get are like "are you nuts" ...my guess these same people opposed to legalization have vices of their own, fucking hypocrites.

Yes totally agree ...

my2hands

the American brainwashing is finally wearing off

benjs

what dreams said:

jeffbr said:

(and since I was used to paying $25 for an 1/8th I wasn't interested).

Dang, I haven't paid $50 a quarter since the 90s. There is something terribly wrong with the underground drug economy on the east coast!

Sadly that's the going rate in Toronto too.. as high as $70 for the good stuff :(

hedonist

The hell? At my dispensary, I'm paying anywhere from $45 to $75 for an eighth.

Hrrmph!

josevolution

hedonist said:

The hell? At my dispensary, I'm paying anywhere from $45 to $75 for an eighth.

Hrrmph!

I'm always going to grow my own it's rediculous that we are not allowed too !

hedonist

josevolution said:

hedonist said:

The hell? At my dispensary, I'm paying anywhere from $45 to $75 for an eighth.

Hrrmph!

I'm always going to grow my own it's rediculous that we are not allowed too !

I wish we could but our place is tiny and we have two plant-obsessed cats

brianlux

hedonist said:

The hell? At my dispensary, I'm paying anywhere from $45 to $75 for an eighth.

Hrrmph!

Yep, and it's gone up over the years. Just for curiosity sake I did the math. In 1970 you could by an ounce of weed that had a 1/3 the potency of today's stash for around $15. Which means the same amount of pot measured by potency cost $45 an ounce in 1970 or $5.62 an eighth in 1970 dollars. Multiply by the inflation factor and you get $34.80 in today's dollars. The average cost at your dispensary is $60-- almost twice the 1970 rate!

On the other hand, in 1970 you could get a little sack of Bull Durham tobacco, rolling paper included, for ten cents-- 62 cents in today's money. I don't think you can even get cheap rolling paper for 62 cents today.

All, of course, assuming my statistics and math are correct.

what dreams

Haha, I'm watching the RNC platform committee meeting (but should be sleeping) and some millenial members are trying to put pro-medical marijuana policy in the Republican platform. Imagine. The old fogeys are voting against all the amendments.