Anonymous - Message to US Citizens 6/26/16

myoung321

Go Beavers said:

PJPOWER said:

hedonist said:

What happened to reaping what you sow, for better or worse? My husband and I have worked our asses off for what we have (beginning at minimum wage in our teens as most do, and moving past that, as most do), and give as we can - of our own volition. I don't need or want others determining how we should spend, donate, or "redistribute" what we've earned. We can figure that out for ourselves. Hell, we already do.

I agree and am in the same boat here, but there is a popular idea right now that anyone that "gets ahead" must somehow be there because they were "lucky" or screwing others to get there. The fact is, we live responsibly, are smart with finances, work our asses off, sacrifice pleasure when needed, etc. If we were taking out loans to go to Pearl Jam concerts, buy cars, etc, then we would probably not be in a good place financially. I think a BIG problem in today's society is consumerism and people living way beyond their means. Sure some people are dealt a rough hand, but if you are a methed out "gangsta" with a face tattoo complaining that you cannot get a good paying job or a Cheetos eating lazy ass spending your time playing video games in your parent's basement, then you have earned yourself a financial-"fuck you".
This entitled idea that life is butterflies and roses and everyone should have the same this or that is pretty unrealistic. If you have truly become impoverished because of unfortunate events or illness then I am all about lending a helping hand, but I have little respect or empathy for those that are irresponsible and self-destructive and complain about how life is unfair...rant over.

So you start your rant saying that you don't like to be stereotyped, and then you finish it by stereotyping others?

Same thing I got out of it...

We blame others? Those that have just enough to have the elusion of security blame those below them because they can't gain the same things? Blame immigrants, Blame other races, Blame other religions... We fight each other over nonsense issues like kittens fascinated by a ball of yarn, as things get worse and the median income of average americans continues to drop decade after decade. Education gets more and more expensive..

Look at how the American life has changed in the last 50 years. 1 decent job could raise a family, provide healthcare, 2.1 kids, the suburbs were created with most Americans being able to afford a homes, education... etc etc.. This included a house 2 cars, vacations, and usually college money.
The middle-class owned nearly 50% of the wealth in America.. Greed changed that....

I hear a lot of ME ME ME here and not a lot of brotherly love for those less fortunate.
Reminds me of.....MARTIN NIEMÖLLER famous poem.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

I've done well in the capitalist system, but I had advantages.

I have worked hard and haven't squandered my opportunities, but I'd be naive to think conditions didn't favour me somewhat.

mrussel1

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I've done well in the capitalist system, but I had advantages.

I have worked hard and haven't squandered my opportunities, but I'd be naive to think conditions didn't favour me somewhat.

They may have... and in some ways they favored me too. I like the phrase, 'equality of opportunity, not equality of outcomes'. Conservatives tend to say that, but I think it's true.

RiotZact

Do some of you see this as slippery slope type deal? Similar to the gun argument saying that limiting criminals' access to guns is a slippery slope to the government coming door to door to take everyone's guns. In this case do you think that the government trying to stop people from screwing over thousands of other people in order to make another billion on top of the 5 they already have is a slippery slope to the government taking 75% of your paycheck that you work hard for and giving it to the lazy guy who won't get off his ass to find a job?

I just don't get it, where are these people that are trying to make everyone have equal pay? I mean I'm sure there are some extreme liberals that might say that type of thing but I would say the vast majority of us are just sick of the way the system is rigged to make the billionaires even more billions to add to their pile. I don't even care about multi-millionaires, they can keep all of that money that I'm sure they worked hard for.

I'm just not seeing the connection between hating a system that allows billionaires to pay less % taxes than someone who works hard and can barley afford to buy their kids some food, and saying that everyone should have equal pay. In my mind there is no connection there.

myoung321

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

PJPOWER said:

hedonist said:

What happened to reaping what you sow, for better or worse? My husband and I have worked our asses off for what we have (beginning at minimum wage in our teens as most do, and moving past that, as most do), and give as we can - of our own volition. I don't need or want others determining how we should spend, donate, or "redistribute" what we've earned. We can figure that out for ourselves. Hell, we already do.

I agree and am in the same boat here, but there is a popular idea right now that anyone that "gets ahead" must somehow be there because they were "lucky" or screwing others to get there. The fact is, we live responsibly, are smart with finances, work our asses off, sacrifice pleasure when needed, etc. If we were taking out loans to go to Pearl Jam concerts, buy cars, etc, then we would probably not be in a good place financially. I think a BIG problem in today's society is consumerism and people living way beyond their means. Sure some people are dealt a rough hand, but if you are a methed out "gangsta" with a face tattoo complaining that you cannot get a good paying job or a Cheetos eating lazy ass spending your time playing video games in your parent's basement, then you have earned yourself a financial-"fuck you".
This entitled idea that life is butterflies and roses and everyone should have the same this or that is pretty unrealistic. If you have truly become impoverished because of unfortunate events or illness then I am all about lending a helping hand, but I have little respect or empathy for those that are irresponsible and self-destructive and complain about how life is unfair...rant over.

That's a good rant.
Don't forget to add potheads who barely live paycheque to paycheque but always have money for weed.

paycheque?

Bad spelling or not an American?

myoung321

jwhjr17 said:

Redistributing all of the wealth will solve it eh? I better go stock up on tinfoil to make sure I have a steady supply of hats.

You were successful in repeating the programming

The Redistribution of wealth has been happening on for several decades... just not the way you're referring to.

mrussel1

RiotZact said:

Do some of you see this as slippery slope type deal? Similar to the gun argument saying that limiting criminals' access to guns is a slippery slope to the government coming door to door to take everyone's guns. In this case do you think that the government trying to stop people from screwing over thousands of other people in order to make another billion on top of the 5 they already have is a slippery slope to the government taking 75% of your paycheck that you work hard for and giving it to the lazy guy who won't get off his ass to find a job?

I just don't get it, where are these people that are trying to make everyone have equal pay? I mean I'm sure there are some extreme liberals that might say that type of thing but I would say the vast majority of us are just sick of the way the system is rigged to make the billionaires even more billions to add to their pile. I don't even care about multi-millionaires, they can keep all of that money that I'm sure they worked hard for.

I'm just not seeing the connection between hating a system that allows billionaires to pay less % taxes than someone who works hard and can barley afford to buy their kids some food, and saying that everyone should have equal pay. In my mind there is no connection there.

Yep. It's called the progressive tax system. I think it works wonderfully well. The top rate could be adjusted up a bit. You could also adjust the capital gains system where you pay the steep penalty on the short term, but pay as ordinary income on long term cap gains. The highest earners, those that live on trust funds for example, only pay 20% as the top rate today. That seems a bit unfair that you can be a Wal-mart trust fund baby and never pay more than 20% tax rate.

benjs

myoung321 said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

PJPOWER said:

hedonist said:

What happened to reaping what you sow, for better or worse? My husband and I have worked our asses off for what we have (beginning at minimum wage in our teens as most do, and moving past that, as most do), and give as we can - of our own volition. I don't need or want others determining how we should spend, donate, or "redistribute" what we've earned. We can figure that out for ourselves. Hell, we already do.

I agree and am in the same boat here, but there is a popular idea right now that anyone that "gets ahead" must somehow be there because they were "lucky" or screwing others to get there. The fact is, we live responsibly, are smart with finances, work our asses off, sacrifice pleasure when needed, etc. If we were taking out loans to go to Pearl Jam concerts, buy cars, etc, then we would probably not be in a good place financially. I think a BIG problem in today's society is consumerism and people living way beyond their means. Sure some people are dealt a rough hand, but if you are a methed out "gangsta" with a face tattoo complaining that you cannot get a good paying job or a Cheetos eating lazy ass spending your time playing video games in your parent's basement, then you have earned yourself a financial-"fuck you".
This entitled idea that life is butterflies and roses and everyone should have the same this or that is pretty unrealistic. If you have truly become impoverished because of unfortunate events or illness then I am all about lending a helping hand, but I have little respect or empathy for those that are irresponsible and self-destructive and complain about how life is unfair...rant over.

That's a good rant.
Don't forget to add potheads who barely live paycheque to paycheque but always have money for weed.

paycheque?

Bad spelling or not an American?

Not American. And here in Canada, we call that good spelling

Thirty Bills Unpaid

RiotZact said:

Do some of you see this as slippery slope type deal? Similar to the gun argument saying that limiting criminals' access to guns is a slippery slope to the government coming door to door to take everyone's guns. In this case do you think that the government trying to stop people from screwing over thousands of other people in order to make another billion on top of the 5 they already have is a slippery slope to the government taking 75% of your paycheck that you work hard for and giving it to the lazy guy who won't get off his ass to find a job?

I just don't get it, where are these people that are trying to make everyone have equal pay? I mean I'm sure there are some extreme liberals that might say that type of thing but I would say the vast majority of us are just sick of the way the system is rigged to make the billionaires even more billions to add to their pile. I don't even care about multi-millionaires, they can keep all of that money that I'm sure they worked hard for.

I'm just not seeing the connection between hating a system that allows billionaires to pay less % taxes than someone who works hard and can barley afford to buy their kids some food, and saying that everyone should have equal pay. In my mind there is no connection there.

Nobody is saying equal pay. And nobody is saying handouts either. This is the knee jerk reaction by those unaccustomed to discussion (making assumptions without listening to what is actually being discussed).

Most people are tired of trickle down economic policies and nice, generous, and what amounts to corrupt tax breaks for those that don't need them.

RiotZact

mrussel1 said:

RiotZact said:

Do some of you see this as slippery slope type deal? Similar to the gun argument saying that limiting criminals' access to guns is a slippery slope to the government coming door to door to take everyone's guns. In this case do you think that the government trying to stop people from screwing over thousands of other people in order to make another billion on top of the 5 they already have is a slippery slope to the government taking 75% of your paycheck that you work hard for and giving it to the lazy guy who won't get off his ass to find a job?

I just don't get it, where are these people that are trying to make everyone have equal pay? I mean I'm sure there are some extreme liberals that might say that type of thing but I would say the vast majority of us are just sick of the way the system is rigged to make the billionaires even more billions to add to their pile. I don't even care about multi-millionaires, they can keep all of that money that I'm sure they worked hard for.

I'm just not seeing the connection between hating a system that allows billionaires to pay less % taxes than someone who works hard and can barley afford to buy their kids some food, and saying that everyone should have equal pay. In my mind there is no connection there.

That seems a bit unfair that you can be a Wal-mart trust fund baby and never pay more than 20% tax rate.

Exactly! Yet whenever people like me call bullshit on that kind of thing and want it to change, many other people (including many liberals even) see it as some sort of first step towards socialism. It drives me nuts.

myoung321

RiotZact said:

I'm just not seeing the connection between hating a system that allows billionaires to pay less % taxes than someone who works hard and can barley afford to buy their kids some food, and saying that everyone should have equal pay. In my mind there is no connection there.

I have not heard anyone say or believe that everyone should be the same, make the same etc etc... That's more propaganda crap.

Not having Universal Healthcare is also a lack freedom. How many Americans have not taken a chance or done something different, creative, etc..,etc,,, simply because of fear of losing healthcare security for their family because they work for a corporation. How many inventors... artists.. musicians .. engineers ...doctors...etc. etc.. have not created something that could have made a difference in the world? How many people do you know that would love to have that freedom of choice.

Of course you will have winners and losers in any society. Morality is how you treat those on the lower rungs of your system. The better the system is for you the more you should pay back to that system. The system/society will prosper... Evidence? Look at FDR and the New Deal. Everyone prospered...The middle-cals was born. Corporation growth exploded..

Then we started chipping away at it... and the best propaganda to date is "Cut Taxes on Job Creators..ie.. ultra -rich and it will trickle down" This didn't and does not create jobs, it created rampant greed and wealth to the few.

PJ_Soul

All it really comes down to is that EVERYBODY who puts in an honest day's work, 5 days a week, should be able to support themselves. EVERYBODY who has a full-time job, no matter what it is, should be able to reasonably afford a decent home that isn't falling apart or packed to the rafters, food, toiletries, medicine, utilities (including internet), clothes, some form of transportation (hopefully public transit when possible), and have just a little for entertainment too, so that life is worth living. And two people doing this should reasonably be able to afford to have one or two kids and support them. That should be the minimum standard (and it only gets better from there, depending on the work being done of course). I really don't think that is too much to expect for North Americans who have full time jobs and are fairly contributing to society by working and paying taxes.

myoung321

benjs said:

myoung321 said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

PJPOWER said:

hedonist said:

What happened to reaping what you sow, for better or worse? My husband and I have worked our asses off for what we have (beginning at minimum wage in our teens as most do, and moving past that, as most do), and give as we can - of our own volition. I don't need or want others determining how we should spend, donate, or "redistribute" what we've earned. We can figure that out for ourselves. Hell, we already do.

I agree and am in the same boat here, but there is a popular idea right now that anyone that "gets ahead" must somehow be there because they were "lucky" or screwing others to get there. The fact is, we live responsibly, are smart with finances, work our asses off, sacrifice pleasure when needed, etc. If we were taking out loans to go to Pearl Jam concerts, buy cars, etc, then we would probably not be in a good place financially. I think a BIG problem in today's society is consumerism and people living way beyond their means. Sure some people are dealt a rough hand, but if you are a methed out "gangsta" with a face tattoo complaining that you cannot get a good paying job or a Cheetos eating lazy ass spending your time playing video games in your parent's basement, then you have earned yourself a financial-"fuck you".
This entitled idea that life is butterflies and roses and everyone should have the same this or that is pretty unrealistic. If you have truly become impoverished because of unfortunate events or illness then I am all about lending a helping hand, but I have little respect or empathy for those that are irresponsible and self-destructive and complain about how life is unfair...rant over.

That's a good rant.
Don't forget to add potheads who barely live paycheque to paycheque but always have money for weed.

paycheque?

Bad spelling or not an American?

Not American. And here in Canada, we call that good spelling

I understand... posted by PJfanwillneverleave1 he/she has been ranting pro Trump supporter here. This spelling kind of doesn't fit the Trump crowd ... so what's the deal? haha

myoung321

PJ_Soul said:

All it really comes down to is that EVERYBODY who puts in an honest day's work, 5 days a week, should be able to support themselves. EVERYBODY who has a full-time job, no matter what it is, should be able to reasonably afford a decent home that isn't falling apart or packed to the rafters, food, toiletries, medicine, utilities (including internet), clothes, some form of transportation (hopefully public transit when possible), and have just a little for entertainment too, so that life is worth living. And two people doing this should reasonably be able to afford to have one or two kids and support them. That should be the minimum standard (and it only gets better from there, depending on the work being done of course). I really don't think that is too much to expect for North Americans who have full time jobs and are fairly contributing to society by working and paying taxes.

I agree 100%

mrussel1

RiotZact said:

mrussel1 said:

RiotZact said:

Do some of you see this as slippery slope type deal? Similar to the gun argument saying that limiting criminals' access to guns is a slippery slope to the government coming door to door to take everyone's guns. In this case do you think that the government trying to stop people from screwing over thousands of other people in order to make another billion on top of the 5 they already have is a slippery slope to the government taking 75% of your paycheck that you work hard for and giving it to the lazy guy who won't get off his ass to find a job?

I just don't get it, where are these people that are trying to make everyone have equal pay? I mean I'm sure there are some extreme liberals that might say that type of thing but I would say the vast majority of us are just sick of the way the system is rigged to make the billionaires even more billions to add to their pile. I don't even care about multi-millionaires, they can keep all of that money that I'm sure they worked hard for.

I'm just not seeing the connection between hating a system that allows billionaires to pay less % taxes than someone who works hard and can barley afford to buy their kids some food, and saying that everyone should have equal pay. In my mind there is no connection there.

That seems a bit unfair that you can be a Wal-mart trust fund baby and never pay more than 20% tax rate.

Exactly! Yet whenever people like me call bullshit on that kind of thing and want it to change, many other people (including many liberals even) see it as some sort of first step towards socialism. It drives me nuts.

Yeah, progressive tax system and socialism should not be used in the same sentence. One concept has nothing to do with the other. I am vehemently against the 'flat tax' myself. It would be disproportionately penal to the lower middle and lower class, not to mention the exploding deficit it would cause if you tried to keep it under 30%.

myoung321

I find it funny how people repeal when the word Socialism is used yet they benefit from it everyday of their lives.. But that programming kicks in to some dark Soviet era B&W film of bread lines and tanks. haha

Public School
Police Department
Fire Department
Road & Highway System
Social Security
Public Libraires
The Internet
Post Office
Garbage Collection and Public Landfills
Polio Vaccine
Museums
Veteran's Health Care
Public Parks
Medicare

Thank you Socialism...

75 more-

mrussel1

myoung321 said:

I find it funny how people repeal when the word Socialism is used yet they benefit from it everyday of their lives.. But that programming kicks in to some dark Soviet era B&W film of bread lines and tanks. haha

Public School
Police Department
Fire Department
Road & Highway System
Social Security
Public Libraires
The Internet
Post Office
Garbage Collection and Public Landfills
Polio Vaccine
Museums
Veteran's Health Care
Public Parks

75 more-

Right, but those are all clearly public services rather than for profit industries. The question is which for profit industry today, do we want to make 'not for profit'. The natural answer is health care, but the risk there is the stifling of innovation, when you remove the profit motive. For example, the Polio vaccine was not invented by the government. It was invented by private researchers and sold to the gov't, if I'm not mistaken.

myoung321

The first polio vaccine was the inactivated polio vaccine. It was developed by Jonas Salk and came into use in 1955.[1] The oral polio vaccine was developed by Albert Sabin and came into commercial use in 1961.[1][5] They are on the World Health Organization's List of Essential Medicines, the most important medication needed in a basic health system.[6] The wholesale cost in the developing world is about 0.25 USD per dose for the oral form as of 2014.[7] In the United States it costs between 25 and 50 USD for the inactivated form.

myoung321

Salk did not patent his vaccine. He could have made BILLIONS! We need more Salk's

On April 12, 1955, the day the Salk vaccine was declared “safe, effective and potent,” legendary CBS newsman Edward R. Morrow interviewed its creator and asked who owned the patent. “Well, the people, I would say,” said Salk in light of the millions of charitable donations raised by the March of Dimes that funded the vaccine’s research and field testing. “There is no patent. Could you patent the sun?” Lawyers for the foundation had investigated the possibility of patenting the vaccine but did not pursue it, in part because of Salk’s reluctance.

myoung321

mrussel1 said:

myoung321 said:

I find it funny how people repeal when the word Socialism is used yet they benefit from it everyday of their lives.. But that programming kicks in to some dark Soviet era B&W film of bread lines and tanks. haha

Public School
Police Department
Fire Department
Road & Highway System
Social Security
Public Libraires
The Internet
Post Office
Garbage Collection and Public Landfills
Polio Vaccine
Museums
Veteran's Health Care
Public Parks

75 more-

Right, but those are all clearly public services rather than for profit industries. The question is which for profit industry today, do we want to make 'not for profit'. The natural answer is health care, but the risk there is the stifling of innovation, when you remove the profit motive. For example, the Polio vaccine was not invented by the government. It was invented by private researchers and sold to the gov't, if I'm not mistaken.

Or if Salk worked for a pharma corporation he probably wouldn't have been so inspired and certainly wouldn't have even had the right to share with the world...