If your friend is single, and he was forced to pay $2100, then he makes six figures.
single and self employed and I have no idea how much he makes ? but he sure don't seem to be in the 6 figure range judging by his house and bike....maybe I misunderstood him ?
When we filled out our taxes and said we didn't have insurance, they asked us why. We clicked on the box- can't afford- . We paid no penalty this year.
The worst of times..they don't phase me, even if I look and act really crazy.
there was a guy who died in the waiting room in Winnipeg years ago from complications from a bladder infection because he was overlooked for over 36 hours. the nurses are just plain too busy here.
Yeah, a nursing shortage. Sucks. They need to give better incentives to people to become nurses.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
there was a guy who died in the waiting room in Winnipeg years ago from complications from a bladder infection because he was overlooked for over 36 hours. the nurses are just plain too busy here.
Yeah, a nursing shortage. Sucks. They need to give better incentives to people to become nurses.
Here in Ontario nurses are being laidoff, 170 locally just got laid off, fortunately for those 170 the US is a viable option.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
there was a guy who died in the waiting room in Winnipeg years ago from complications from a bladder infection because he was overlooked for over 36 hours. the nurses are just plain too busy here.
Yeah, a nursing shortage. Sucks. They need to give better incentives to people to become nurses.
Here in Ontario nurses are being laidoff, 170 locally just got laid off, fortunately for those 170 the US is a viable option.
And drs. Are under attack from the government. Messed up here in Ontario.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
there was a guy who died in the waiting room in Winnipeg years ago from complications from a bladder infection because he was overlooked for over 36 hours. the nurses are just plain too busy here.
Yeah, a nursing shortage. Sucks. They need to give better incentives to people to become nurses.
Here in Ontario nurses are being laidoff, 170 locally just got laid off, fortunately for those 170 the US is a viable option.
And drs. Are under attack from the government. Messed up here in Ontario.
Yes, it's infuriating. I think it's ALL about the government's failure to administrate properly (as opposed to the healthcare framework itself). Bunch of idiots screwing up what can be an excellent system.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
It's easy to be okay with a government rationed system when you're healthy and all you need is a routine exam or some cold medicine.
When you are dealt with a life threatening illness like cancer, choice becomes very important. Because of my private PPO, I was able to choose the best doctors in the nation to care for me when I was sick. I could choose a more aggressive treatment plan out of several options presented. If I had been told I had to see a mediocre doctor based on my home address and then offered only one protocol because that's the government standard in my case, I would have pissed. I read story after story during my illness of that happening to patients in Canada and Europe. People with the same exact cancer in the same exact stage or worse waiting months for appointments and not being offered the same options I had. I had surgery within 10 days of diagnosis, finished radiation in three months, while these women were still waiting to get their first ultrasounds back in the same amount of time.
No thank you. As someone living daily with the threat of recurrence, I am not interested at all in single payer. I will keep my very expensive choices to save my own life.
I don't get it. If the government told us we could only buy a car from one dealer, we'd be livid. If the government told us we could only get haircuts from one styling school, we'd be like "wtf." But some want to offer one kind of health insurance? The single most important consumer issue facing all of us, and people are in favor of giving it to the government? Blows my mind.
It's easy to be okay with a government rationed system when you're healthy and all you need is a routine exam or some cold medicine.
When you are dealt with a life threatening illness like cancer, choice becomes very important. Because of my private PPO, I was able to choose the best doctors in the nation to care for me when I was sick. I could choose a more aggressive treatment plan out of several options presented. If I had been told I had to see a mediocre doctor based on my home address and then offered only one protocol because that's the government standard in my case, I would have pissed. I read story after story during my illness of that happening to patients in Canada and Europe. People with the same exact cancer in the same exact stage or worse waiting months for appointments and not being offered the same options I had. I had surgery within 10 days of diagnosis, finished radiation in three months, while these women were still waiting to get their first ultrasounds back in the same amount of time.
No thank you. As someone living daily with the threat of recurrence, I am not interested at all in single payer. I will keep my very expensive choices to save my own life.
I have dealt with life threatening illness and so have members of my family, and I very much support Canada's system, and these life threatening illnesses were dealt with perfectly, and everyone has been very happy with their doctors, and there are always options. I don't feel like you really know what it's like with Canada's healthcare system because all you're reading are the horror stories, which are a small minority of stories (that will exist in ALL systems). BUT, FYI, and to highlight what many Americans don't seem to realize, Canada DOES indeed have private healthcare options as well. If people here want to pay for shit to increase their options, and can afford to do so, they can. But FWIW, I don't know a single person who had cancer and felt that they needed to go this route, and that includes people who could have afforded it. I only know some who choose to go private in order to speed up wait times for non-life threatening conditions.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Well that's all wonderful for you and your family. My private health care options have always worked out just fine as well, so we're all good. You can keep your single payer government system. I'd like to keep my private insurance system. Since they both work, we're both happy, and I see no need for America to become Canada in this regard.
Well that's all wonderful for you and your family. My private health care options have always worked out just fine as well, so we're all good. You can keep your single payer government system. I'd like to keep my private insurance system. Since they both work, we're both happy, and I see no need for America to become Canada in this regard.
I'm sure they have, and that's lovely for you, but the problem is that millions of people under the US system either die or go completely broke because they get sick. With Canada's system that doesn't happen. That is a pretty fucking important difference!
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Well that's all wonderful for you and your family. My private health care options have always worked out just fine as well, so we're all good. You can keep your single payer government system. I'd like to keep my private insurance system. Since they both work, we're both happy, and I see no need for America to become Canada in this regard.
I'm sure they have, and that's lovely for you, but that problem is that millions of people under the US system either die or go completely broke because they get sick. With Canada's system that doesn't happen. That is a pretty fucking important difference!
I don't get it. If the government told us we could only buy a car from one dealer, we'd be livid. If the government told us we could only get haircuts from one styling school, we'd be like "wtf." But some want to offer one kind of health insurance? The single most important consumer issue facing all of us, and people are in favor of giving it to the government? Blows my mind.
What options do you have when buying electricity? water? sewer?
come on...think
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
I don't get it. If the government told us we could only buy a car from one dealer, we'd be livid. If the government told us we could only get haircuts from one styling school, we'd be like "wtf." But some want to offer one kind of health insurance? The single most important consumer issue facing all of us, and people are in favor of giving it to the government? Blows my mind.
What options do you have when buying electricity? water? sewer?
come on...think
And I think it sucks that those services, too, are falling apart in this country. If there were more competition, maybe it wouldn't be so.
Regarding bankruptcies, etc., I have no problem regulating insurance the same way we regulate many other industries in this country. That's basically what the ACA did, regulate the pre-existing conditions, the caps on out of pocket, etc. Problem solved.
You're right, I don't understand Canada because I don't live there. I don't care to, either. I happen to love the country I live in, and I'll never be shamed into believing America sucks balls just because we have some problems to sort through.
I already hand enough of my paycheck over to the government, thank you. They've maxed out what I'm willing to give in exchange for whatever crap they try to fool me into believing is good for me.
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Rock on, what dreams.
And while I get not everyone has the option / availability, good on you for doing what you had to, to kick cancer's fucking ass. I hope you never have to do so again.
I don't get it. If the government told us we could only buy a car from one dealer, we'd be livid. If the government told us we could only get haircuts from one styling school, we'd be like "wtf." But some want to offer one kind of health insurance? The single most important consumer issue facing all of us, and people are in favor of giving it to the government? Blows my mind.
I have never once heard of anyone with a life threatening illness having to wait for a fucking thing in Canada. I have known many people with all types of cancer, and they are treated very aggressively and proactively. I'm not sure where you are getting this info from.
wait times suck for an MRI on a busted toe, yes, but for something life threatening? no.
I don't get it. If the government told us we could only buy a car from one dealer, we'd be livid. If the government told us we could only get haircuts from one styling school, we'd be like "wtf." But some want to offer one kind of health insurance? The single most important consumer issue facing all of us, and people are in favor of giving it to the government? Blows my mind.
What options do you have when buying electricity? water? sewer?
come on...think
And I think it sucks that those services, too, are falling apart in this country. If there were more competition, maybe it wouldn't be so.
Regarding bankruptcies, etc., I have no problem regulating insurance the same way we regulate many other industries in this country. That's basically what the ACA did, regulate the pre-existing conditions, the caps on out of pocket, etc. Problem solved.
You're right, I don't understand Canada because I don't live there. I don't care to, either. I happen to love the country I live in, and I'll never be shamed into believing America sucks balls just because we have some problems to sort through.
I already hand enough of my paycheck over to the government, thank you. They've maxed out what I'm willing to give in exchange for whatever crap they try to fool me into believing is good for me.
Whoa. It is not my intention to shame you about where you live or tell you that "Canada's better". In some ways it is, and some ways the USA is better than Canada. I love the USA for the most part, and there are a few places there where I'd love to live (if I had enough money to not worry about my healthcare, anyway). I am taken aback by how defensive you just got. I am simply comparing healthcare systems and correcting some of your misconceptions about Canada's.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I don't get it. If the government told us we could only buy a car from one dealer, we'd be livid. If the government told us we could only get haircuts from one styling school, we'd be like "wtf." But some want to offer one kind of health insurance? The single most important consumer issue facing all of us, and people are in favor of giving it to the government? Blows my mind.
What options do you have when buying electricity? water? sewer?
come on...think
And I think it sucks that those services, too, are falling apart in this country. If there were more competition, maybe it wouldn't be so.
Regarding bankruptcies, etc., I have no problem regulating insurance the same way we regulate many other industries in this country. That's basically what the ACA did, regulate the pre-existing conditions, the caps on out of pocket, etc. Problem solved.
You're right, I don't understand Canada because I don't live there. I don't care to, either. I happen to love the country I live in, and I'll never be shamed into believing America sucks balls just because we have some problems to sort through.
I already hand enough of my paycheck over to the government, thank you. They've maxed out what I'm willing to give in exchange for whatever crap they try to fool me into believing is good for me.
Whoa. It is not my intention to shame you about where you live or tell you that "Canada's better". In some ways it is, and some ways the USA is better than Canada. I love the USA for the most part, and there are a few places there where I'd love to live (if I had enough money to not worry about my healthcare, anyway). I am take aback by how defensive you just got. I am simply comparing healthcare systems and correcting some of your misconceptions about Canada's.
I'm just overall tired of people saying the US should do what Canada does, or that I'm not thinking right, or whatever else is wrong with me because I don't support single payer. Sorry.
I've made whatever point I've made. I would like everyone to have the experience I've had. I had my experience in a privately run network with insurance that does cost some money but I wouldn't trade in a single dollar I paid for it. There is something to be said for shit that actually works.
I don't get it. If the government told us we could only buy a car from one dealer, we'd be livid. If the government told us we could only get haircuts from one styling school, we'd be like "wtf." But some want to offer one kind of health insurance? The single most important consumer issue facing all of us, and people are in favor of giving it to the government? Blows my mind.
What options do you have when buying electricity? water? sewer?
come on...think
And I think it sucks that those services, too, are falling apart in this country. If there were more competition, maybe it wouldn't be so.
Regarding bankruptcies, etc., I have no problem regulating insurance the same way we regulate many other industries in this country. That's basically what the ACA did, regulate the pre-existing conditions, the caps on out of pocket, etc. Problem solved.
You're right, I don't understand Canada because I don't live there. I don't care to, either. I happen to love the country I live in, and I'll never be shamed into believing America sucks balls just because we have some problems to sort through.
I already hand enough of my paycheck over to the government, thank you. They've maxed out what I'm willing to give in exchange for whatever crap they try to fool me into believing is good for me.
Whoa. It is not my intention to shame you about where you live or tell you that "Canada's better". In some ways it is, and some ways the USA is better than Canada. I love the USA for the most part, and there are a few places there where I'd love to live (if I had enough money to not worry about my healthcare, anyway). I am take aback by how defensive you just got. I am simply comparing healthcare systems and correcting some of your misconceptions about Canada's.
I'm just overall tired of people saying the US should do what Canada does, or that I'm not thinking right, or whatever else is wrong with me because I don't support single payer. Sorry.
I've made whatever point I've made. I would like everyone to have the experience I've had. I had my experience in a privately run network with insurance that does cost some money but I wouldn't trade in a single dollar I paid for it. There is something to be said for shit that actually works.
I am of course glad that you got treatment that worked well for you. It is too bad that not everyone in the USA has access to the same kind of great treatment.
Don't you think that it's important to look at how other countries do things, or at least fully understand them, and consider them and compare them though? That is how things get improved within all countries.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Single payer doesn't mean you won't have choices...it means there aren't multiple insurance agencies to deal with....just one
I'll have to disagree here. The only way you can have single payer or as I prefer to call it universal health care is likely through the government ... If you for 1 minute think health care in Canada is better, im telling it's not...and these choices are limited, very limited ...
Saying that I'll take my chances with my universal health care ... But I know just across the river in Detroit they get much better health care if you can afford.
Now maybe countries in Europe are doing better than Canada ... But when the government is control you pretty much except the service their willing to provide..
And everyone should have universal health care and should be the most expensive budgetary item for the government ... Top priority.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I don't get it. If the government told us we could only buy a car from one dealer, we'd be livid. If the government told us we could only get haircuts from one styling school, we'd be like "wtf." But some want to offer one kind of health insurance? The single most important consumer issue facing all of us, and people are in favor of giving it to the government? Blows my mind.
I have never once heard of anyone with a life threatening illness having to wait for a fucking thing in Canada. I have known many people with all types of cancer, and they are treated very aggressively and proactively. I'm not sure where you are getting this info from.
wait times suck for an MRI on a busted toe, yes, but for something life threatening? no.
True ...
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Single payer doesn't mean you won't have choices...it means there aren't multiple insurance agencies to deal with....just one
I'll have to disagree here. The only way you can have single payer or as I prefer to call it universal health care is likely through the government ... If you for 1 minute think health care in Canada is better, im telling it's not...and these choices are limited, very limited ...
Saying that I'll take my chances with my universal health care ... But I know just across the river in Detroit they get much better health care if you can afford.
Now maybe countries in Europe are doing better than Canada ... But when the government is control you pretty much except the service their willing to provide..
And everyone should have universal health care and should be the most expensive budgetary item for the government ... Top priority.
Again, there is private healthcare in Canada, so the choices aren't limited at all .... if you have money.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Single payer doesn't mean you won't have choices...it means there aren't multiple insurance agencies to deal with....just one
I'll have to disagree here. The only way you can have single payer or as I prefer to call it universal health care is likely through the government ... If you for 1 minute think health care in Canada is better, im telling it's not...and these choices are limited, very limited ...
Saying that I'll take my chances with my universal health care ... But I know just across the river in Detroit they get much better health care if you can afford.
Now maybe countries in Europe are doing better than Canada ... But when the government is control you pretty much except the service their willing to provide..
And everyone should have universal health care and should be the most expensive budgetary item for the government ... Top priority.
Again, there is private healthcare in Canada, so the choices aren't limited at all .... if you have money.
You have raised a very good point...except here in Ontario it's pretty much all government. If we have $$$ we can go to the us ... Not convenient. Also healthcare varies greatly from province to province ... You are in BC, your healthcare sounds better than Ontario, you even have pharmacare correct? Here our vision isn't even covered anymore ... So I think that's an important is that in Canada health care varies depending on what province or territory your in. And our drs and nurse are under attack...bless anyone's heart who enters the Ontario healthcare as an employee.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Single payer doesn't mean you won't have choices...it means there aren't multiple insurance agencies to deal with....just one
I'll have to disagree here. The only way you can have single payer or as I prefer to call it universal health care is likely through the government ... If you for 1 minute think health care in Canada is better, im telling it's not...and these choices are limited, very limited ...
Saying that I'll take my chances with my universal health care ... But I know just across the river in Detroit they get much better health care if you can afford.
Now maybe countries in Europe are doing better than Canada ... But when the government is control you pretty much except the service their willing to provide..
And everyone should have universal health care and should be the most expensive budgetary item for the government ... Top priority.
Again, there is private healthcare in Canada, so the choices aren't limited at all .... if you have money.
You have raised a very good point...except here in Ontario it's pretty much all government. If we have $$$ we can go to the us ... Not convenient. Also healthcare varies greatly from province to province ... You are in BC, your healthcare sounds better than Ontario, you even have pharmacare correct? Here our vision isn't even covered anymore ... So I think that's an important is that in Canada health care varies depending on what province or territory your in. And our drs and nurse are under attack...bless anyone's heart who enters the Ontario healthcare as an employee.
Yes, you're right, it does sound like BC's healthcare is better, and that is the only province I've ever lived iun besides half a year in Alberta (where one trip to the ER went just fine). An important distinction for sure, and I should have remembered to say something about it. Yes, BC does have Pharmacare (and it seems very well managed too... I have it without having to lift a finger besides doing my taxes). But we also suffer from our vision care not being covered under MSP unless you are below or above a certain age (so at least children and seniors get it). Vision is only covered under extended healthcare, or if it's connected to a wider disease or a life threatening condition or when you're referred. I.e. i injured my eye once and all of that was covered because a doctor referred me to an optometrist to look at it (another time I injured it (i hurt my eye a lot!), and I went to the ER. Full and immediate treatment and coverage. But yeah, just your regular eye exams aren't covered under MSP (I get 80% covered through my extended coverage, which is 100% paid for by my employer. Just like dental).
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Comments
Godfather.
even if I look and act really crazy.
That wipes out penalty for most lower/middle class taxpayers.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Godfather.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
www.headstonesband.com
When you are dealt with a life threatening illness like cancer, choice becomes very important. Because of my private PPO, I was able to choose the best doctors in the nation to care for me when I was sick. I could choose a more aggressive treatment plan out of several options presented. If I had been told I had to see a mediocre doctor based on my home address and then offered only one protocol because that's the government standard in my case, I would have pissed. I read story after story during my illness of that happening to patients in Canada and Europe. People with the same exact cancer in the same exact stage or worse waiting months for appointments and not being offered the same options I had. I had surgery within 10 days of diagnosis, finished radiation in three months, while these women were still waiting to get their first ultrasounds back in the same amount of time.
No thank you. As someone living daily with the threat of recurrence, I am not interested at all in single payer. I will keep my very expensive choices to save my own life.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
I only deal with one insurance company . . . the one I chose. I chose the most expensive option because it gives me the most freedom.
come on...think
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Regarding bankruptcies, etc., I have no problem regulating insurance the same way we regulate many other industries in this country. That's basically what the ACA did, regulate the pre-existing conditions, the caps on out of pocket, etc. Problem solved.
You're right, I don't understand Canada because I don't live there. I don't care to, either. I happen to love the country I live in, and I'll never be shamed into believing America sucks balls just because we have some problems to sort through.
I already hand enough of my paycheck over to the government, thank you. They've maxed out what I'm willing to give in exchange for whatever crap they try to fool me into believing is good for me.
And while I get not everyone has the option / availability, good on you for doing what you had to, to kick cancer's fucking ass. I hope you never have to do so again.
wait times suck for an MRI on a busted toe, yes, but for something life threatening? no.
www.headstonesband.com
I've made whatever point I've made. I would like everyone to have the experience I've had. I had my experience in a privately run network with insurance that does cost some money but I wouldn't trade in a single dollar I paid for it. There is something to be said for shit that actually works.
It is too bad that not everyone in the USA has access to the same kind of great treatment.
Don't you think that it's important to look at how other countries do things, or at least fully understand them, and consider them and compare them though? That is how things get improved within all countries.
Saying that I'll take my chances with my universal health care ... But I know just across the river in Detroit they get much better health care if you can afford.
Now maybe countries in Europe are doing better than Canada ... But when the government is control you pretty much except the service their willing to provide..
And everyone should have universal health care and should be the most expensive budgetary item for the government ... Top priority.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Yes, BC does have Pharmacare (and it seems very well managed too... I have it without having to lift a finger besides doing my taxes).
But we also suffer from our vision care not being covered under MSP unless you are below or above a certain age (so at least children and seniors get it). Vision is only covered under extended healthcare, or if it's connected to a wider disease or a life threatening condition or when you're referred. I.e. i injured my eye once and all of that was covered because a doctor referred me to an optometrist to look at it (another time I injured it (i hurt my eye a lot!), and I went to the ER. Full and immediate treatment and coverage. But yeah, just your regular eye exams aren't covered under MSP (I get 80% covered through my extended coverage, which is 100% paid for by my employer. Just like dental).
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon