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Turntable Advice

mca47mca47 Posts: 13,291
in Musicians and Gearheads
Hey guys, I was hoping you could provide some info/advice to someone who wants to get into the vinyl collection thing.
What would you recommend I look for when purchasing a turntable? I don't want anything cheap, and I don't want to drop a ton of money either. Are there any online resources you would suggest?
I want to get a receiver that's solid for vinyl, but also CD, Bluray, TV audio output etc.

Thanks!

Comments

  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,805
    So you are looking for a receiver/integrated amp and a TT? What is your budget? Do you have speakers?
  • mca47mca47 Posts: 13,291
    Well, I'm starting from scratch. I have nothing. Well, I have an old 5.1 receiver and speakers but it's crappy and getting tossed.
    I'd like to start with decent equipment, not the best, not the worst...middle of the line.
    Decent equipment to start with so I can get some use out of it until I can upgrade later.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,805
    mca47 said:

    Well, I'm starting from scratch. I have nothing. Well, I have an old 5.1 receiver and speakers but it's crappy and getting tossed.
    I'd like to start with decent equipment, not the best, not the worst...middle of the line.
    Decent equipment to start with so I can get some use out of it until I can upgrade later.

    Okay, lots of options. Two more questions:

    1. Do you need a 5.1/7.1 AVR again, or are you looking for a two channel amp
    2. How big is the room? In other words, is it better suited for tower speakers or bookshelf?
  • mca47mca47 Posts: 13,291
    mrussel1 said:

    mca47 said:

    Well, I'm starting from scratch. I have nothing. Well, I have an old 5.1 receiver and speakers but it's crappy and getting tossed.
    I'd like to start with decent equipment, not the best, not the worst...middle of the line.
    Decent equipment to start with so I can get some use out of it until I can upgrade later.

    Okay, lots of options. Two more questions:

    1. Do you need a 5.1/7.1 AVR again, or are you looking for a two channel amp
    2. How big is the room? In other words, is it better suited for tower speakers or bookshelf?
    Thanks for responding mrussel1!
    I'd like to have a 5.1/7.1 for movies and stuff and the house I'm buying has a pretty sizable living room. I would guess tower speakers would work, but would want to keep it on the modern/minimalist , not anything huge and gaudy like I'm gonna host a concert. LOL.
    Can you get a 7.1 receiver that has a awesome phono/vinyl 2 channel output too?

    Again, sorry for the noobish questions. I appreciate the help!
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,805
    mca47 said:

    mrussel1 said:

    mca47 said:

    Well, I'm starting from scratch. I have nothing. Well, I have an old 5.1 receiver and speakers but it's crappy and getting tossed.
    I'd like to start with decent equipment, not the best, not the worst...middle of the line.
    Decent equipment to start with so I can get some use out of it until I can upgrade later.

    Okay, lots of options. Two more questions:

    1. Do you need a 5.1/7.1 AVR again, or are you looking for a two channel amp
    2. How big is the room? In other words, is it better suited for tower speakers or bookshelf?
    Thanks for responding mrussel1!
    I'd like to have a 5.1/7.1 for movies and stuff and the house I'm buying has a pretty sizable living room. I would guess tower speakers would work, but would want to keep it on the modern/minimalist , not anything huge and gaudy like I'm gonna host a concert. LOL.
    Can you get a 7.1 receiver that has a awesome phono/vinyl 2 channel output too?

    Again, sorry for the noobish questions. I appreciate the help!
    Okay, I've got a few ideas. So your first problem is the AVR. Since you probably don't want to spend 2k+ for an Anthem or Arcam, I would assume, you are looking at the mid range receivers. This puts you in the Pioneer Elite, Onkyo/Integra, Yamaha, Denon type range. I would personally stay away from Onkyo. They have enormous issues with their HDMI boards. No point in getting an AVR if you the HDMI breaks down.

    Because you want a phono stage built in, that really limits you to Yamaha. I am positive Elites don't have them (I have two Pioneer AVRs) and pretty sure Denon's don't either. Here is the lowest level Yamaha that has a built in phono http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-A850-7-2-Channel-MusicCast-Bluetooth/dp/B00YMN6F14/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1461549979&sr=8-10&keywords=yamaha+rx-a1050

    However, this one is essentially the same one and is discounted $350. The difference is no phono. However, you can get a nice phono stage for 130 bucks (Cambridge Azur, for instance) and be ahead of the game. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00J8HV5BO/ref=psdc_3213035011_t1_B00YMN6F14

    I have a Yamaha 1040 which is the next one up. I love it. It's powering B&W 683 which are enormous and it does a good job. But I had to bi-amp it. When I had it powering a little smaller speakers, it was spectacular. Yamaha makes an excellent AVR. It has a 'pure' mode that I would highly recommend for 2 channel listening. Super clean. I've owned a lot of mid level AVR's over the past 20+ years, and this has been the best, hands down for everything (zone 2, ease of connections, great app, networking, very good DAC to stream music). If you've got other ideas, I'm happy to look at them and give an opinion.

    Now speakers are the most complicated decision and there are a hundred options. And if you are willing to buy used from a local store, Audiogon, Craig's list, etc, then you can get some very high end shit at a good price. I will say that I just got an email from Definitive Technology about a super discount they are running. These are end of product cycle and I have the next model up along with 3 other pairs of Def Tech. No complaints. But these were originally 599 a piece and Def Tech is selling them for 299 each. That's a steal. They are entry level audiophile. Neutral to warm sound. Laid back, no listening fatigue. The best part is that they each have an 8" sub built in. DefT makes excellent subs. Now this will not go down to 20 hz, but probably 30 which will sound phenomenal for 99% of action movies and all music. They also have a nice cabinet, piano black top and a small footprint. They are bi-polar so they need to be 2 feet from a wall for best sound. http://www.definitivetech.com/products/bp-8020st

    Again, there are thousands of options. In the budget audiophile range, you're looking at companies like Klipsch, Def, Monitor, PSB, Aperion, and more. It's all going to be what fits your price, fit and finish.

    For the TT itself, again lots of options. I'm not an expert here so people will have their opinions. I am running a Pro-Ject debut carbon with Red ortofone cartridge. It was 400. I'm happy with it. Pro-ject makes great tables at all prices. Do does Rega, Music Hall and others. If you get a Pro-ject, Rega or Music Hall, I don't think you'll be disappointed.

    Lots to absorb.

  • mca47mca47 Posts: 13,291
    Awesome. Thanks for the detailed info mrussel1!!! Much appreciated!
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,987
    You might also want to do a search for this around the boards. There are already several very detailed threads about this, with tons of great info about products, setups, troubleshooting, where to buy, what equipment works best for other equipment, etc etc etc. :)
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • mca47mca47 Posts: 13,291
    PJ_Soul said:

    You might also want to do a search for this around the boards. There are already several very detailed threads about this, with tons of great info about products, setups, troubleshooting, where to buy, what equipment works best for other equipment, etc etc etc. :)

    Search function sucks!

    Haha, thanks PJ_Soul, I'll see what I can find.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,987
    mca47 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    You might also want to do a search for this around the boards. There are already several very detailed threads about this, with tons of great info about products, setups, troubleshooting, where to buy, what equipment works best for other equipment, etc etc etc. :)

    Search function sucks!

    Haha, thanks PJ_Soul, I'll see what I can find.
    Lol, yeah it does! Was thinking just a "turntable" search would pull most of them up though. ;)
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,289
    There are so many variables! You can spend a couple dollars at a thrift store or (literally) a quarter of a million dollars on a turn table. One of the better site for getting advice and ideas is in the hardware forums at www.SteveHoffman.tv A lot of those guys are super knowledgeable about stereo gear, where to buy, what to look for etc.


    "Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!"
    -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"

    "Try to not spook the horse."
    -Neil Young













  • buck502000buck502000 Birthplace of GIBSON guitar Posts: 8,951
    I have been looking to upgrade my deck - always had a direct drive - might be looking at a belt driven table this time. Probably between the Pro-ject and the Rega but I need to see what the differences are between the two. The Rega is 200 more.
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer Maryland Posts: 16,455
    buck502000 said:

    I have been looking to upgrade my deck - always had a direct drive - might be looking at a belt driven table this time. Probably between the Pro-ject and the Rega but I need to see what the differences are between the two. The Rega is 200 more.

    Is Rega still undisclosed regarding the specs of their tables? I've heard good things about them, but I never could find specs to compare them to any other maker. I have a Pro-ject with an Ortofon 2m Blue and it really whoops the llama's ass!
    Star Lake 00 / Pittsburgh 03 / State College 03 / Bristow 03 / Cleveland 06 / Camden II 06 / DC 08 / Pittsburgh 13 / Baltimore 13 / Charlottesville 13 / Cincinnati 14 / St. Paul 14 / Hampton 16 / Wrigley I 16 / Wrigley II 16 / Baltimore 20 (xx) / Camden 22 / Baltimore 24
  • mca47mca47 Posts: 13,291
    buck502000 said:

    I have been looking to upgrade my deck - always had a direct drive - might be looking at a belt driven table this time. Probably between the Pro-ject and the Rega but I need to see what the differences are between the two. The Rega is 200 more.

    What are the pro/cons of belt vs. direct drive?
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,805
    mca47 said:

    buck502000 said:

    I have been looking to upgrade my deck - always had a direct drive - might be looking at a belt driven table this time. Probably between the Pro-ject and the Rega but I need to see what the differences are between the two. The Rega is 200 more.

    What are the pro/cons of belt vs. direct drive?
    Direct drives probably spin more accurately and have reduced WOW and flutter. Most I would think, have a switch to change from 45 to 33 which is convenient. The downside is that since the platter sits on the motor, it may produce more noise that can be introduced into the music. DJ's like direct since they can spin them easier I guess.

    I'm not sure if one is better than the other, it's about the implementation more than the design. If you have a belt, you have to adjust it to play 45 unless you get a speedbox which will adjust it for you, but it's another expense. I think you should just get the TT that speaks to you and not worry as much about that piece.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,987
    mrussel1 said:

    mca47 said:

    buck502000 said:

    I have been looking to upgrade my deck - always had a direct drive - might be looking at a belt driven table this time. Probably between the Pro-ject and the Rega but I need to see what the differences are between the two. The Rega is 200 more.

    What are the pro/cons of belt vs. direct drive?
    Direct drives probably spin more accurately and have reduced WOW and flutter. Most I would think, have a switch to change from 45 to 33 which is convenient. The downside is that since the platter sits on the motor, it may produce more noise that can be introduced into the music. DJ's like direct since they can spin them easier I guess.

    I'm not sure if one is better than the other, it's about the implementation more than the design. If you have a belt, you have to adjust it to play 45 unless you get a speedbox which will adjust it for you, but it's another expense. I think you should just get the TT that speaks to you and not worry as much about that piece.
    Actually, you don't always need to adjust the belt or use extra hardware to switch between speeds. My TT is belt driven, and it has a button to switch from 33 to 45. (also, there is absolutely no noise at all introduced into the music).
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,805
    PJ_Soul said:

    mrussel1 said:

    mca47 said:

    buck502000 said:

    I have been looking to upgrade my deck - always had a direct drive - might be looking at a belt driven table this time. Probably between the Pro-ject and the Rega but I need to see what the differences are between the two. The Rega is 200 more.

    What are the pro/cons of belt vs. direct drive?
    Direct drives probably spin more accurately and have reduced WOW and flutter. Most I would think, have a switch to change from 45 to 33 which is convenient. The downside is that since the platter sits on the motor, it may produce more noise that can be introduced into the music. DJ's like direct since they can spin them easier I guess.

    I'm not sure if one is better than the other, it's about the implementation more than the design. If you have a belt, you have to adjust it to play 45 unless you get a speedbox which will adjust it for you, but it's another expense. I think you should just get the TT that speaks to you and not worry as much about that piece.
    Actually, you don't always need to adjust the belt or use extra hardware to switch between speeds. My TT is belt driven, and it has a button to switch from 33 to 45. (also, there is absolutely no noise at all introduced into the music).
    I was saying the direct drive supposedly introduces noise, not belt. I don't know if it's true. I have belt driven, it's just what I've read.

    That's cool that the belt can be adjusted without a switch (I assume it's not a speedbox). What type of TT is it?
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,289
    PJ_Soul said:

    mrussel1 said:

    mca47 said:

    buck502000 said:

    I have been looking to upgrade my deck - always had a direct drive - might be looking at a belt driven table this time. Probably between the Pro-ject and the Rega but I need to see what the differences are between the two. The Rega is 200 more.

    What are the pro/cons of belt vs. direct drive?
    Direct drives probably spin more accurately and have reduced WOW and flutter. Most I would think, have a switch to change from 45 to 33 which is convenient. The downside is that since the platter sits on the motor, it may produce more noise that can be introduced into the music. DJ's like direct since they can spin them easier I guess.

    I'm not sure if one is better than the other, it's about the implementation more than the design. If you have a belt, you have to adjust it to play 45 unless you get a speedbox which will adjust it for you, but it's another expense. I think you should just get the TT that speaks to you and not worry as much about that piece.
    Actually, you don't always need to adjust the belt or use extra hardware to switch between speeds. My TT is belt driven, and it has a button to switch from 33 to 45. (also, there is absolutely no noise at all introduced into the music).
    I actually have to lift the platter off my Pro-Ject TT and use a little plastic tool to move the band from one speed to another. But I actually like the Pro-Ject's sound with it's stripped down features.
    "Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!"
    -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"

    "Try to not spook the horse."
    -Neil Young













  • dudemandudeman Posts: 3,070
    A lot of consumer grade turntables have speed switches built-in. Belt drives going way back almost always did, just like direct drive and idler drive tables.

    It's the entry-audiophile market where you start to see outboard speed boxes or manually switching belt pulleys. Really high end tables tend to be belt drive due to the isolation of the platter and motor.

    IMO, one can start splitting hairs as to what is "best" but it becomes a fools errand. You could spend millions on a stereo system and still be convinced that it could sound better.

    Once you get to a place where everything you spin sounds good and you're not fiddling with EQ for every record you own, consider the job done. When you get there, getting a system to sound different is easy, better is too subjective to quantify.

    For those looking into new turntables, stay away from Crosley and ION. Anything made of black plastic that costs less than $150.00 new will be a weak point in the system. Denon, Marantz, Music Hall, Rega, Pro-Ject and Audio-Technica all have good models that will perform above their price points.

    Vintage is a good option, too. Pioneer, JVC, Yamaha, Denon, Thorens, Technics and Dual all have models that are serviceable and sound like a million bucks.
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
  • passion4tunespassion4tunes Posts: 64
    I bought my first turntable last week for 60$ from a guy online that refurbs them...AND IT'S AWESOME!!!
    I had no idea what I was missing with the vinyl thing!

    Mines a Technics belt drive and has the switch for 2 speeds.

    Now I'm on a massive Pearl Jam vinyl hunt.
    My budget has been busted
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,805
    passion4tunes said:

    I bought my first turntable last week for 60$ from a guy online that refurbs them...AND IT'S AWESOME!!!
    I had no idea what I was missing with the vinyl thing!

    Mines a Technics belt drive and has the switch for 2 speeds.

    Now I'm on a massive Pearl Jam vinyl hunt.
    My budget has been busted

    Welcome to a new expense line in your budget.
  • passion4tunespassion4tunes Posts: 64
    mrussel1 said:

    passion4tunes said:

    I bought my first turntable last week for 60$ from a guy online that refurbs them...AND IT'S AWESOME!!!
    I had no idea what I was missing with the vinyl thing!

    Mines a Technics belt drive and has the switch for 2 speeds.

    Now I'm on a massive Pearl Jam vinyl hunt.
    My budget has been busted

    Welcome to a new expense line in your budget.
    Ha Budget is officially busted within a week... Picked Up Vs. and Avocado. ..lol... On the hunt for Riot Act.

    That's it... I'm screwed....lol
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,987
    mrussel1 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    mrussel1 said:

    mca47 said:

    buck502000 said:

    I have been looking to upgrade my deck - always had a direct drive - might be looking at a belt driven table this time. Probably between the Pro-ject and the Rega but I need to see what the differences are between the two. The Rega is 200 more.

    What are the pro/cons of belt vs. direct drive?
    Direct drives probably spin more accurately and have reduced WOW and flutter. Most I would think, have a switch to change from 45 to 33 which is convenient. The downside is that since the platter sits on the motor, it may produce more noise that can be introduced into the music. DJ's like direct since they can spin them easier I guess.

    I'm not sure if one is better than the other, it's about the implementation more than the design. If you have a belt, you have to adjust it to play 45 unless you get a speedbox which will adjust it for you, but it's another expense. I think you should just get the TT that speaks to you and not worry as much about that piece.
    Actually, you don't always need to adjust the belt or use extra hardware to switch between speeds. My TT is belt driven, and it has a button to switch from 33 to 45. (also, there is absolutely no noise at all introduced into the music).
    I was saying the direct drive supposedly introduces noise, not belt. I don't know if it's true. I have belt driven, it's just what I've read.

    That's cool that the belt can be adjusted without a switch (I assume it's not a speedbox). What type of TT is it?
    It's a Denon DP-300F.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • 2-feign-reluctance2-feign-reluctance TigerTown, USA Posts: 23,330
    Currently overwhelmed with all the internet chatter on what kind of cartridge is best. I have the AT95e on my ATLP120. I considered getting an Ortofon Red but got quickly overwhelmed on how to set it up properly, if I have the table & components to justify such a pricey piece of equipment.
    www.cluthelee.com
  • earthquakes making wavesearthquakes making waves Posts: 295
    anyone heard anything about the pro-ject debut carbon and the reviews not the hum I've been hearing about. any input on this situation, thanks for any input!
    Best,
    K
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,805
    earthquakes making waves said:

    anyone heard anything about the pro-ject debut carbon and the reviews not the hum I've been hearing about. any input on this situation, thanks for any input!
    Best,
    K

    I have a debut and no hum. Just be sure you keep the TT and the preamp off any electronics. I am using a Cambridge Azur 551 with it and it is quiet.
  • earthquakes making wavesearthquakes making waves Posts: 295
    thx much for the response. gonna get me one these batboys, do you have the espirit or debut?
    just curious, and I'm assuming the DC model?
    thanks again!
    mrussel1 said:

    earthquakes making waves said:

    anyone heard anything about the pro-ject debut carbon and the reviews not the hum I've been hearing about. any input on this situation, thanks for any input!
    Best,
    K

    I have a debut and no hum. Just be sure you keep the TT and the preamp off any electronics. I am using a Cambridge Azur 551 with it and it is quiet.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,805
    earthquakes making waves said:

    thx much for the response. gonna get me one these batboys, do you have the espirit or debut?
    just curious, and I'm assuming the DC model?
    thanks again!

    mrussel1 said:

    earthquakes making waves said:

    anyone heard anything about the pro-ject debut carbon and the reviews not the hum I've been hearing about. any input on this situation, thanks for any input!
    Best,
    K

    I have a debut and no hum. Just be sure you keep the TT and the preamp off any electronics. I am using a Cambridge Azur 551 with it and it is quiet.
    I have the debut carbon with the red ortofon. I'm pretty happy with it, although it's my first TT so I don't have a great comparison. But it's been quiet, reliable, etc. I used an internal preamp on my integrated amp at first, but switched to the Cambridge. That made a difference. I hear the acrylic platter makes a difference too.
  • ewillsewills Posts: 66
    edited September 2016
    photo Photo Sep 10 3 04 02 PM_zpsqdotjutv.png
    Found this stereo system for sale nearby and haven't been able to find info anywhere about what it might be worth.. I would say I'm in a similar position as OP was, in wanting to try out vinyl but maybe not knowing enough to start yet. However, I'm not looking to invest much in the sound system for a few years until I'm not moving around so much - more interested in starting a collection and enjoying it semi-cheaply until I can indulge more down the road. Anyway, can you guys tell me anything about it?
    Post edited by ewills on
  • dudemandudeman Posts: 3,070
    Just ok.....not great.

    It looks like it has a suspension mounted platter. If that's the case, you may have issues with 180 and 200 gram records.

    I have serviced a few B&O turntables with a similar setup.

    Offer them $50.00.
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
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