Pearl Jam Cancels 4/20 Raleigh, NC Concert in Opposition to HB2; Official Band Statement

Ledbetterman10

PJ_Soul said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

JP Losman said:

If they truly believe in this cause, they will cancel MSG and Philly shows. There is not much of an economic hit by cancelling one PJ show in Raleigh, but the NBA all star game is BIG business. MSG and Philly both also are partners with the NBA, so by cancelling those shows, they are putting pressure on the NBA to go through with moving the All star game instead of just threats. If PJ truly is committed to making a difference and wants a good conscience, then they should do that.

But they won't. Because they aren't really doing this for the cause but for their image. And its not a debate or an opinion that they are hypocrites. Its a fact. Because you play in cities and states and countries with bad laws too but don't boycott, it makes you a hypocrite. Because you aren't going full out and doing everything within your power to overturn HB2 which could be helped by things like cancelling MSG and Philly, you are a hypocrite.

Now you can say its not a big deal and they can choose their battles and I agree with that. Doesn't change the fact they are hypocrites.

This is like saying that Gandhi is a hypocrite for not protesting against Britain's control of Australia (no, I don't mean the the band is like Gandhi, lol).
It is NOT hypocritical to pick a specific fight.

I'm not sure boycotting something is "picking a fight." It's more tantamount to "taking your ball and going home." Boycotting a service that you need is a different story. For example, if the gas prices rose to such an astronomical price due not to the cost of gas, but to the greed of the oil industries, and people boycotted getting gas and began walking/riding bikes in protest.

boy·cott/ˈboiˌkät/
verb

withdraw from commercial or social relations with (a country, organization, or person) as a punishment or protest.

noun

a punitive ban that forbids relations with certain groups, cooperation with a policy, or the handling of goods.

That's cute. Yeah...I know what a boycott is. I don't see where in my post it implies that I don't. You said that Pearl Jam's boycott "was picking a fight" and I said that it's "taking your ball and going home" (both are boycott strategies I suppose). I used that gas company boycott analogy as an example of what I think "picking a fight" through a boycott would be.

jeffwalsh

MayDay10 said:

jeffwalsh said:

MayDay10 said:

from the Raleigh Observer (where no mention of Pearl Jam's cancellation is to be seen)

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/politics-columns-blogs/under-the-dome/article72453082.html

from the 18th...

Do you know how a newspaper works?! ;-)

DR295987

rollings said:

gettingright said:

i don't have time to read through every post, but there seems to be a common theme about loss...mostly of money, and some of entertainment/experience. and i wonder about this...loss...what was truly lost with the passage of this law not just for LGBT, but all of us? dignity? rights? respect? humanity? acceptance? tolerance? empathy? understanding?

I can understand disappointment, shit, I'd be bummed, too, but it's only money; it's not your dignity, pride, rights, freedom, or humanity. and, if there were a law to be one day passed that embarrassed and marginalized you, i hope to hell that people will stand up and fight for you.

i am reminded of what some guy once said, "what you do for the least of these brothers and sisters, you do for me."

take the long-view, use the wide angle lens, see the big picture, have a little perspective... it's not all about you, your needs, your loss...

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/hear-eddie-vedders-powerful-speech-on-pearl-jams-north-carolina-boycott-20160419

"but it's only money"

it's not only money. I have often contemplatedt that my most favorite place to be is at a pearl jam concert. There is nothing that compares to it. THAT is what was taken.

it's also not his money...easy to preach when you aren't the one out a grand...funny thing I've offered several on here to trade ne their tickets fir my raleigh seats...none of them have taken me up on it.... funny how the support the band with money seats not theirs

ComeToTX

Has anyone mentioned that Jazz Fest is sponsored by Shell Oil? Nah, nothing hypocritical about this band...

JP Losman

PJ_Soul said:

So how many people are no longer fans because of this btw? Let's take a head count.

I'm still a fan of their music but I lost a lot of respect for them in terms of how they present themselves as being activists and progressive. I also just don't think they are very intelligent because this was a bone-headed move that was more about self promotion than actual change.

Ledbetterman10

JP Losman said:

PJ_Soul said:

So how many people are no longer fans because of this btw? Let's take a head count.

I'm still a fan of their music but I lost a lot of respect for them in terms of how they present themselves as being activists and progressive. I also just don't think they are very intelligent because this was a bone-headed move that was more about self promotion than actual change.

Well if you think it's about self-promotion, then it seems like more of a calculated move than a bone-headed move.

It's basically the antithesis of a Donald Trump move. Whereas Trump will do something in hopes of riling up conservatives to be like "Fuck yeah! I'm with you on this, Donald! Fuck Muslims!", Pearl Jam is doing this in hopes of getting liberals to be like "Aww...how sweet! I'm with you on this, Pearl Jam! To heck with intolerance!"

KN88208

I won GA lottery tickets for the 4/20 show. Like many others, I was devastated when I received the cancellation email on Monday.

As a happy, successful man, PJ has been an intricate part of my life for 25 years. Their music is poetic, and their shows are therapeutic. Because of PJ, I've developed global friendships and attended shows all over the country. Without PJ, I would not be the friend, husband, son etc. I am today. They offer hope and excitement, among many other things.

This band was put on earth for a reason... For the greater good of many lives...

PJ didn't cancel 4/20 because of me or the other 20 thousand fans. They canceled the show on the state of NC due to their despicable, discriminatory laws.

Forever grateful fan,
See you in Columbia!

DR295987

ComeToTX said:

I've seen very little coverage of PJ canceling. Nothing like with Bruce and I saw more about Mumford deciding to play.

im.on Raleigh since monday...very little mention of it...and I've asked many what they think.of PJ cancelling most common response who is pearl jam? oh and I went down to the capital to see the protesters...was a huge crowd of ONE person and even that person wasn't getting any attention... so essentially them boycotting is a blip...

JF657419

ComeToTX said:

PJ_Soul said:

So how many people are no longer fans because of this btw? Let's take a head count.

Shockingly we can be fans and not agree with everything they do.

^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^

Requires complicated thought, however.

So much easier to nod along.

JP Losman

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/father-john-misty-rails-against-bulls--t-n-carolina-bathroom-bill-20160420

Friend of mine is in this band and I asked him what he thought about Bruce cancelling. He just sent me this

ComeToTX

I agree with him 100%

"The bill is obviously bullshit," Tillman said. "[If] I thought playing a show for my fans in North Carolina was in any way some tacit endorsement of this fearful, petty, ignorant nonsense, I wouldn't. I also play states that have oppressive drug laws designed to imprison the disenfranchised, rig elections, deny women their dignity, defend the reckless and insane practice of selling guns and sustain a permanent underclass with hypocritical, opportunist readings of archaic documents written by land-stealers who never intended political privilege to extend past their buddies.

"These are obviously all huge systemic problems," he adds. "But for me, this show represents a start in investing in the plight of other Americans."

rvmirror67

hedonist said:

brianlux said:

PardonMe said:

I know that this is almost beside the point, because the conversation hinges on morality, and issues other than bathroom usage. But, the public bathroom layout could use an overhaul anyway. How about, for public restrooms, use full walls with motion detectors (light outside the "stall") to let you know that a stall is occupied to give some sense of safety. Sinks could be shared and no one is exposed. I know that this likely wouldn't work easily for small businesses but, the expense for governments and large establishments shouldn't be significant compared to the current issues.

My wife suggested something similar to this last night. Good idea, PardonMe.

As for small businesses, like many others, my wife's store has one bathroom so of course, all genders use it. Even the store cat's letter box is there. There one bit of segregation however, the co-owner's dog uses the yard behind the store.

Whoa whoa, your cat has a letter box? Address please! I can send her mucho treats.

Bwahahaha Hedonist!

homermac0520

PJ_Soul said:

So how many people are no longer fans because of this btw? Let's take a head count.

Raleigh was the only show I could make. Was supposed to fly down last night and meet up with my son and 2 of his friends who were driving in from ECU. For his 2 friend would have been there first ever PJ show. I got most of money back so financially I didn't take a big hit luckily. I've heard of many people who did take a big hit.

They have a powerful voice in large part because of a devoted fan base. This was no way to treat your fans. I actually understand canceling but 48 hours notice? Absolutely terrible way to handle this. I would love to know why they waited so long. Is it too much to hear from them on why they waited so long to cancel??

I am still a fan. But to be honest, I have had trouble listening to them the past couple of days.

kase

Sea said:

Pearl Jam Cancels 4/20 Raleigh, NC Concert in Opposition to HB2; Official Band Statement
April 18, 2016

PEARL JAM STATEMENT

It is with deep consideration and much regret that we must cancel the Raleigh show in North Carolina on April 20th.

This will be upsetting to those who have tickets and you can be assured that we are equally frustrated by the situation.

The HB2 law that was recently passed is a despicable piece of legislation that encourages discrimination against an entire group of American citizens. The practical implications are expansive and its negative impact upon basic human rights is profound. We want America to be a place where no one can be turned away from a business because of who they love or fired from their job for who they are.

It is for this reason that we must take a stand against prejudice, along with other artists and businesses, and join those in North Carolina who are working to oppose HB2 and repair what is currently unacceptable.

We have communicated with local groups and will be providing them with funds to help facilitate progress on this issue.

In the meantime we will be watching with hope and waiting in line for a time when we can return.

Perhaps even celebrate.

With immense gratitude for your understanding,

Pearl Jam




What is HB2?

North Carolina’s HB2 legislation targets the basic rights of transgender people and strips many nondiscrimination protections from the state’s lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) community. In addition to harming LGBT North Carolinians, the law limits the ability of municipalities to provide living wages above what the state provides, closes the door on state courts as a recourse for employment nondiscrimination claims, and imposes the values of Raleigh lawmakers on local elected officials and the people they serve.

What Needs To Be Done:

Please join us in signing this petition to repeal HB2
http://equalitync.org/action/repeal_HB2/

N.C. Organizations We Are Supporting:

http://equalitync.org
http://www.naacpnc.org
http://www.lgbtcenterofraleigh.com
http://www.qords.org

Ticket Refunds:

Provided at point of purchase

For fans that purchased Ten Club tickets to the Raleigh show, your cards will automatically be refunded for the full ticket price in USD this week.

do not agree with the law or cancelling the show....those politicians could care less about a couple rock bands and/or sporting events cancelling anything in their state...ed likes to talk so why didn't he get up there and talk.. I feel bad for people that are discriminated against but I feel worse for the people that rely on the income to pay bills from events held in north Carolina and have that taken from them when they've done nothing wrong. PJ plays in countries where governments & politicians are corrupt and people are discriminated against so it seems hypocritical to me.

PJ_Soul

ComeToTX said:

PJ_Soul said:

So how many people are no longer fans because of this btw? Let's take a head count.

Shockingly we can be fans and not agree with everything they do.

I know, but that wasn't my question.

PJ_Soul

MayDay10 said:

Im not sure. How many said that?

No one, that's why I asked. I'm actually wondering.

PJ_Soul

Ledbetterman10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

JP Losman said:

If they truly believe in this cause, they will cancel MSG and Philly shows. There is not much of an economic hit by cancelling one PJ show in Raleigh, but the NBA all star game is BIG business. MSG and Philly both also are partners with the NBA, so by cancelling those shows, they are putting pressure on the NBA to go through with moving the All star game instead of just threats. If PJ truly is committed to making a difference and wants a good conscience, then they should do that.

But they won't. Because they aren't really doing this for the cause but for their image. And its not a debate or an opinion that they are hypocrites. Its a fact. Because you play in cities and states and countries with bad laws too but don't boycott, it makes you a hypocrite. Because you aren't going full out and doing everything within your power to overturn HB2 which could be helped by things like cancelling MSG and Philly, you are a hypocrite.

Now you can say its not a big deal and they can choose their battles and I agree with that. Doesn't change the fact they are hypocrites.

This is like saying that Gandhi is a hypocrite for not protesting against Britain's control of Australia (no, I don't mean the the band is like Gandhi, lol).
It is NOT hypocritical to pick a specific fight.

I'm not sure boycotting something is "picking a fight." It's more tantamount to "taking your ball and going home." Boycotting a service that you need is a different story. For example, if the gas prices rose to such an astronomical price due not to the cost of gas, but to the greed of the oil industries, and people boycotted getting gas and began walking/riding bikes in protest.

boy·cott/ˈboiˌkät/
verb

withdraw from commercial or social relations with (a country, organization, or person) as a punishment or protest.

noun

a punitive ban that forbids relations with certain groups, cooperation with a policy, or the handling of goods.

That's cute. Yeah...I know what a boycott is. I don't see where in my post it implies that I don't. You said that Pearl Jam's boycott "was picking a fight" and I said that it's "taking your ball and going home" (both are boycott strategies I suppose). I used that gas company boycott analogy as an example of what I think "picking a fight" through a boycott would be.

I did mean picking a fight as in starting one. I meant it as in choosing your battles. Pick as in selecting.

KC2917

JP Losman said:

Steph Curry's church is very anti LGBT rights and Curry so far has been avoiding taking a side in the HB2 debate. Put pressure on him and the NBA to make statements. Get people to boycott Warriors games until he does....get people to boycott the Hornet playoff games in Miami.

If you truly care, then go all in. If not, its just grandstanding.

How the hell is it a basketball player's responsibility to speak out on a political issue??? WTF is the NBA doing to cause any harm to anyone in this issue? Do you really think it's your responsibility to go around boycotting everyone who has an opinion that varies from yours? This isn't anyone else's fault other than the asshole lawmakers and politicians that pushed it through. Let's keep the anger and criticism aimed at where it belongs.

JP Losman

KC2917 said:

JP Losman said:

Steph Curry's church is very anti LGBT rights and Curry so far has been avoiding taking a side in the HB2 debate. Put pressure on him and the NBA to make statements. Get people to boycott Warriors games until he does....get people to boycott the Hornet playoff games in Miami.

If you truly care, then go all in. If not, its just grandstanding.

How the hell is it a basketball player's responsibility to speak out on a political issue??? WTF is the NBA doing to cause any harm to anyone in this issue? Do you really think it's your responsibility to go around boycotting everyone who has an opinion that varies from yours? This isn't anyone else's fault other than the asshole lawmakers and politicians that pushed it through. Let's keep the anger and criticism aimed at where it belongs.

The point is that if PJ is really trying to make a change by an economic hit on NC, than do your best to force the all star game to move from Charlotte (which is a much more substantial loss for the state than a PJ concert cancelled 48 hours beforehand). Either you are all in on trying to repeal HB2 by this tactic or you aren't. I don't think PJ is all in. I think they are just grandstanding and this is great pr for them but they are not really that invested with making the change.

Ledbetterman10

PJ_Soul said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

JP Losman said:

If they truly believe in this cause, they will cancel MSG and Philly shows. There is not much of an economic hit by cancelling one PJ show in Raleigh, but the NBA all star game is BIG business. MSG and Philly both also are partners with the NBA, so by cancelling those shows, they are putting pressure on the NBA to go through with moving the All star game instead of just threats. If PJ truly is committed to making a difference and wants a good conscience, then they should do that.

But they won't. Because they aren't really doing this for the cause but for their image. And its not a debate or an opinion that they are hypocrites. Its a fact. Because you play in cities and states and countries with bad laws too but don't boycott, it makes you a hypocrite. Because you aren't going full out and doing everything within your power to overturn HB2 which could be helped by things like cancelling MSG and Philly, you are a hypocrite.

Now you can say its not a big deal and they can choose their battles and I agree with that. Doesn't change the fact they are hypocrites.

This is like saying that Gandhi is a hypocrite for not protesting against Britain's control of Australia (no, I don't mean the the band is like Gandhi, lol).
It is NOT hypocritical to pick a specific fight.

I'm not sure boycotting something is "picking a fight." It's more tantamount to "taking your ball and going home." Boycotting a service that you need is a different story. For example, if the gas prices rose to such an astronomical price due not to the cost of gas, but to the greed of the oil industries, and people boycotted getting gas and began walking/riding bikes in protest.

boy·cott/ˈboiˌkät/
verb

withdraw from commercial or social relations with (a country, organization, or person) as a punishment or protest.

noun

a punitive ban that forbids relations with certain groups, cooperation with a policy, or the handling of goods.

That's cute. Yeah...I know what a boycott is. I don't see where in my post it implies that I don't. You said that Pearl Jam's boycott "was picking a fight" and I said that it's "taking your ball and going home" (both are boycott strategies I suppose). I used that gas company boycott analogy as an example of what I think "picking a fight" through a boycott would be.

I did mean picking a fight as in starting one. I meant it as in choosing your battles. Pick as in selecting.

Fair enough. But I still think picking this particular battle is grandstanding. Florida has many laws aren't exactly LGBT-friendly. But that's not currently a topic in the news.