Attn: Hillary Supporters
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USA Posts: 2,672
This is a very simple concept. Us Sanders supporters understand that Sanders wont get much of what he is proposing done, however he will fight like hell to get the corruption out of the system, which down the line will lead to a better govt. for all. That's the idea- That's why many of us support Sanders.
Here's a message his camp just sent out:
Remember that Hillary Clinton fundraiser on Friday where a couple could contribute $353,000 to sit at a table with George Clooney? Well, George Clooney himself was asked on NBC whether that was an obscene amount of money, and here’s what he said:
"It is an obscene amount of money, the Sanders campaign when they talk about it is absolutely right. It’s ridiculous that we have this kind of money in politics." - George Clooney
Here’s the truth: you cannot change a corrupt campaign finance system by taking its money. That’s what this election is about: tearing down a system where big money props up the institutions that rig the economy against ordinary Americans. And the central question of our campaign is can 99% of Americans defeat the 1% trying to maintain the status quo?
Here's a message his camp just sent out:
Remember that Hillary Clinton fundraiser on Friday where a couple could contribute $353,000 to sit at a table with George Clooney? Well, George Clooney himself was asked on NBC whether that was an obscene amount of money, and here’s what he said:
"It is an obscene amount of money, the Sanders campaign when they talk about it is absolutely right. It’s ridiculous that we have this kind of money in politics." - George Clooney
Here’s the truth: you cannot change a corrupt campaign finance system by taking its money. That’s what this election is about: tearing down a system where big money props up the institutions that rig the economy against ordinary Americans. And the central question of our campaign is can 99% of Americans defeat the 1% trying to maintain the status quo?
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-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Have a beautiful Sunday.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/04/17/clooney-calls-money-politics-obscene----including-what-hes-raising/83154906/
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I think Bernie's main point is to go after the corruption within our political system.
Here is Bernie's response to your comment:
Here it is:
Our opponent is bending campaign finance rules to their breaking point all so Wall Street fat cats and people like Walmart's Alice Walton can get away with giving hundreds of thousands of dollars in a single contribution to benefit the Clinton campaign.
You already know about the fundraiser Hillary Clinton held where a couple could contribute $353,000 to sit at a table with George Clooney. That money doesn’t go directly to the Clinton campaign, it goes to something called the "Hillary Victory Fund" – another account that has raised almost $35 million.
Well, for MONTHS the Clinton campaign has been saying the primary purpose of that fund is to support the DNC and state parties. But that’s not even close to true.
According to the Hillary Victory Fund’s most recent FEC report, the vast majority of the money they spent in 2016 – $25 MILLION – went directly towards helping the Clinton campaign itself.
So, what can we do about it? We can either sit back and shrug our shoulders at yet another obscene injustice. Or, we can fight. I say we fight.
Contribute to Bernie’s campaign today to help us win New York and as a way of saying you have had ENOUGH of the way Hillary Clinton’s campaign is funding its campaign and super PACs.
You tell people "Bernie can't get any of those huge ideas past congress." They tell you "we have to elect democrats to congress and they'll vote for his huge ideas."
"OK," you say, "let's raise money to get those democrats elected, then."
"NO!! MONEY OUT OF POLITICS BERNIE OR BUST, LET'S HAVE A PROTEST!!"
yes, you read that right. A fund raiser that raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for down-ballot democrats... the people Bernie would NEED to pass his many proposals... and Bernie supporters protested this.
Without those people, we wouldn't get any reform to the ACA, we sure aren't getting free college or a democratic congress to support any supreme court nominees. Protesting this is about as counter-productive as I can imagine.
Your post suggest that we should settle for the status quo. Well let me tell you, You are damn right! Bernie or BUST!! Why the hell would I want the future of my country and the country I'm leaving to my children to remain the same, which is embedded with corruption, not only that, but enable those idiots who have dug us into this mess. Sanders is a once in a lifetime opportunity. He is the right candidate to take on the corruption. He actually has a proven record. He was for LGBT community well before it was popular. He was for gay marriage well before Clinton decided to change. I want a genuine candidate, anything other then Sanders is simply the same old shit, and I couldn't give two fucks who that other candidate is.
This is not the end of the world, this is a goddam wake up call. If you think Clinton is doing a far better job at promoting other Dems who will follow in line on certain social issues go for it, fuck the rest of the country.
And the same goes for the right - Trump is fucking that party up... and that's exactly what we need. We need all these corrupt motherfuckers out of office and out of power. Not suggesting Trump isn't a dirty bag, but what he's doing to the establishment is brilliant and a good thing for our country. If him and his people can vote out the establishment that would be great.
We need to change things up and now is the time.
Right now I am Donating another $15 to Bernie in your honor.
Yes, we have a flawed, fucked up, unfair and corrupt system but sadly... much like getting fat, you can't change it all at once. Huge changes need to take place over time. That's why Barack Obama failed to live up to his unrealistic expectations.
Bernie fans seem to think he can just walk into the office and wave his magic wand and change everything. That's not how it works. We need a democrat to nominate liberal supreme court justices, we need a democratic congress, we need democrats in state offices... we need to get rid of Gerrymandering and Citizen's United.... and your childish "I WANT A GOLDEN GOOSE NOW DADDY" Bernie-Or-Bust thing won't achieve that.
So you go ahead and donate your measly $15 to Bernie. I've already donated thousands to many candidates. I wish I didn't have to. I wish we got money out of politics. But we're not going to if we don't elect enough liberals to every single level and branch of the US government,
Now you can donate you're massive $500 and THOUSANDS of dollars, because you'd be the first person to do so, and now all of a sudden that money is going to create the change you're stating. Guess what, that's bullshit! You're doing the same thing we've all done year after year... What happen to Congress? What Happen to the Senate?? We lost it! Keep giving your money- that seems to be placing our country on a better path.
Citizens United? Fuck man... you do realize the ONLY reason Hillary's campaign is still alive is because of big money, right?
I rather vote for Trump, shit even Cruz over Clinton. At least these guys are against the establishment. And don't give me any shit on Wars, Social Issues, Surveillance, or the economy,etc... I voted for Obama twice and I'm a big Sanders supporters, but I rather shake things up than have the same old shit..... and Look where that has gotten us.... Not to say I regret Obama, but he has disappointed in certain areas.
Hope you have enough money to buy the votes you need.
The point of Bernie's campaign is to Get. Money. out of. Politics. I have already given him a couple hundred, and I'd do it all over again. To get awareness of the corruption a main street topic and get the corrupt out of power.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/04/18/hillary-clinton-praised-corrupt-brazilian-president-dilma-rousseff-for-her-transparency.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/20/opinion/dilma-rousseffs-impeachment-isnt-a-coup-its-a-cover-up.html?_r=0
-EV 8/14/93
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
There are so many dark clouds surrounding Hillary. I really don't understand how true progressives aren't Supporting the real progressive in the race. These progressives supporting her are using statements like, "she'll be able to negotiate deals with congress to get things done, etc", well what does that really mean? Considering a lot of her history and a lot of her recent history.
It's disappointing that so many progressives are falling in line behind a candidate that has such a negative rating and That is so damn questionable!!
And last, there are many more moderate democrats in this country than you may believe. Crowds do not equal votes. Just ask John Kerry and his HUGE rallies in Ohio the day before the 04 election. There is such thing as a silent majority.
Because the list is derived from Congress’ official database of floor actions, it does not include achievements like his insertion of funding for veterans health care into an Iraq war spending bill because that occurred off of the House floor while the bill was in conference. Nor does the list include what is perhaps his most significant achievement — providing health care to an additional 10 million mostly low-income Americans by getting Senate majority leader Harry Reid to add $11 billion in funding for community health centers that provide care regardless of a person’s ability to pay to the 2010 Affordable Care Act in exchange for Sanders rallying liberal Democrats who were considering voting against the bill once conservative Democrats removed the public option.
https://pplswar.wordpress.com/2015/11/11/what-bernie-sanders-got-done-in-washington-a-legislative-inventory/
(The list is way too long to list here so go to the link Russell. It will take you some time to read it).
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/20/opinion/dilma-rousseffs-impeachment-isnt-a-coup-its-a-cover-up.html?_r=0
Exactly... Amazing how two opinion pieces from fairly liberal media outlets view a situation so differently. There are no easy answers and the answers are much more difficult when dealing with foreign issues. There are so many factors that we Americans simply do not understand. FWIW, the Daily Beast article appears to be written not as an analysis of the situation, but an effort to damage Hillary based on one thing she said as SOS. That's politics I suppose.
There are so many dark clouds surrounding Hillary. I really don't understand how true progressives don't come out for the real progressive in the race.these progressives supporting her are use statements like, "she'll be able to negotiate deals with congress to get things done, etc", well what does that really mean?
It's disappointing that so many progressives are falling in line behind a candidate that has such a negative rating and That is so damn questionable!!
The 'questions' are all just conjecture and for many of us, it's just a continuation of what the Right Wing hit machine has been doing to her, Bill, Kerry, Gore, Obama for years. It's guilt by innuendo without any actual facts or gigantic leaps of faith. Many of us can respect Bernie, but simply do not think he is pragmatic or has been effective in the Senate. He's never built a coalition. He's never got another Democratic Socialist elected. His only leadership post did not go well at all (Veteran's Affairs) and is a blight on the Obama administration. There's no reason to think that he
mrussel1 said: tonifig8 said: mrussel1 said: Kat said:Rousseff might just be a scapegoat...a distraction. Anyway, info in this article to consider.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/20/opinion/dilma-rousseffs-impeachment-isnt-a-coup-its-a-cover-up.html?_r=0
Exactly... Amazing how two opinion pieces from fairly liberal media outlets view a situation so differently. There are no easy answers and the answers are much more difficult when dealing with foreign issues. There are so many factors that we Americans simply do not understand. FWIW, the Daily Beast article appears to be written not as an analysis of the situation, but an effort to damage Hillary based on one thing she said as SOS. That's politics I suppose.
There are so many dark clouds surrounding Hillary. I really don't understand how true progressives don't come out for the real progressive in the race.these progressives supporting her are use statements like, "she'll be able to negotiate deals with congress to get things done, etc", well what does that really mean?
It's disappointing that so many progressives are falling in line behind a candidate that has such a negative rating and That is so damn questionable!!
The 'questions' are all just conjecture and for many of us, it's just a continuation of what the Right Wing hit machine has been doing to her, Bill, Kerry, Gore, Obama for years. It's guilt by innuendo without any actual facts or gigantic leaps of faith. Many of us can respect Bernie, but simply do not think he is pragmatic or has been effective in the Senate. He's never built a coalition. He's never got another Democratic Socialist elected. His only leadership post did not go well at all (Veteran's Affairs) and is a blight on the Obama administration. There's no reason to think that he can continue Obama's agenda.
And last, there are many more moderate democrats in this country than you may believe. Crowds do not equal votes. Just ask John Kerry and his HUGE rallies in Ohio the day before the 04 election. There is such thing as a silent majority.
I understand that the "right" has been playing rough for a very long time. That's nothing new here. The GOP, once they sort out their mess, will continue to play rough, and against someone like Hillary it's going to be all to easy. She has legitimate baggage, not just conjecture information. The FBI investigation on her might be conjecture, but the fact is that she has been surrounded by shady things like this for a very long time. Her not giving us "progressives" the transcripts to her 250k speeches is a bit shady. If she wants our support (sanders supporters) then she's going to have to be transparent as Fuck. she would have to make a real attempt to clear up her messes, and that just might keep us from voting against her. We don't want to vote for her by default. That's been the case for far to long with many of the candidates that the DNC throws at us, no more of that. There is a real opportunity here to shake things up on both sides of the political spectrum.
My disbelief here is, how can so many so called "progressives" support a candidate like this- one with such a list of baggage, one that has proven to be a double sided coin, when we have a candidate that has always been on the right side concerning issues that matter to us most. I would imagine many of the people who are voting for her are simply old school democrats who perhaps aren't aware of the real damage some of our Democratic candidates are doing, such as Obama and surveillance. It's difficult to be on top of all these matters when information is constantly changing and when so many negotiations are being kept in the dark.
People are right, Sanders wouldn't get his agenda through congress, but nor would Clinton, even if she negotiates the fuck out of deals to benefit the elitist. The beauty about Sanders is that he'd do something even better, he'll fight to kill the cancer at its source, which will then bring about the real change we need as a country. Once we eliminate all the corruption we can then start planning for a better tomorrow. That's what's Sanders has been about all these years. If you compared the long records of these two candidates on paper, without knowing the candidates I'm pretty sure you would side with the best progressive.
Sanders has the youth to back him up and mobilize against corruption- and that's the main focus of this political revolution. Fix the problem at the core, so that tomorrow we have a much better playing field. Clinton is ready to start playing politics the minute she's back in office, this dude Sanders is ready to throw blows the minute he takes the job...
Oh and Kerry had a handful of big rallies, Sanders has big rallies everywhere he goes - those are loyal troopers who will stick around for the grind. Those aren't loyal/blind democrats/zombies that simply support the party regardless of its actions.
Hillary's is surrounded by so much shadiness
We can elect someone who will fight for our progressive values and not have to spend all of their time defending hundreds of allegations. She's defending them from people on the left and people on the right. It's incredible, yet she's still winning.
You're right, but are they blindly loyal to Sanders? I put party in front of individual. There is a fair amount of hypocrisy on the Sanders side that has been pointed out many times. Today's message from the campaign that they will try to flip super delegates to win the nomination is just the latest flip. He can't win the pledged and he can't win the popular, so he's moving onto super delegates. Doesn't that strike you as odd?
The word Progressive is a big word and it doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. I'm ardently pro choice, pro-gay, basically liberal on all social issues. I support Obamacare but I'm against single payer, at least for the next ten years until the market settles. You cannot introduce this type of massive change into the healthcare industry without problems. I'm against free university for about 15 reasons. I'm pro 'finding a way to reduce the cost curve on secondary education'. Unfortunately there is absolutely ZERO in Bernie's plan that will address that. In fact, putting it on the gov't dole can ONLY increase the costs since there ceases to be an incentive to reduce it. His solution is for me to have a marginal tax rate approaching 46%. No thanks.
Today's message is as follows:
" New York wasn't the result we were looking for. But we still have a path to the nomination, and our plan is to win the pledged delegates in this primary.
Let's be clear: we put more than 3 million calls into New York last weekend, and turned out a HUGE number of voters for Bernie. They voted for Bernie, for his ideas, and for our movement. And for each voter we contact, we'll win more states, win more pledged delegates, and win the nomination.
This coming Tuesday, five more states vote, with 384 delegates up for grabs. We need to win every delegate possible in these contests to take a big bite out of our opponent's lead before the primary season moves westward.
So we're calling for an all-hands-on-deck mobilization this Saturday through Monday to find Bernie supporters in the April 26th states and get them out to vote. Will you pitch in?......"
Yes, the Sanders camp has said they're going after the super delegates- now that's a different subject that can go on and on, but ultimately Hillary has always appeared to have this enormous lead because she's had many of these Super Delegates from the get go- and the perception to the general population isn't that good for Sanders, obviously having those delegates help. But as you can see in the above statement you can see what his goal is.
Like I said the political revolution isn't about negotiating backwards deals and maintaining the status quo- It's about changing the whole political process. A process that is filled with a two party system, which is filled with so much damn corruption. And that's my beef here, how can so called "progressive" support more corruption and more of the status quo. If you feel Sanders is being hypocritical for flip flopping or however you want to phrase it, then checkout the record/actions of your candidate, it's all over the map, and certain things are simply undeniable. That's the thing I don't understand about my fellow liberals. Now healthcare and education are massive beasts to deal with, no doubt about it. Look at the mess Obamacare has turned out to be, but it's a start and it's an investment in the right direction- Sanders ideas might be to big, but it's in the right direction- Congress wont pass squat, that's the reality, which is why the fight must be taken to the political system- eliminate a lot of the corruption and it will level the playing field.
How can she fight to over turn citizens united when the majority of her money is coming from that type of system? How can her and the DNC overturn Obama's actions on blocking that kind of money/activities on the Democratic side? How can we trust someone who has such shady characteristics and who has left finger prints all over place.
As a side note, many independents weren't allowed to vote and their were lots of issues at polling locations, not making an excuse, but that's the facts.
Now a report coming out that many of her donors are all over the panama papers? C'mon... are you part of the 1% that need to protect your interest to maintain the status quo?
It's best that you don't try to get personal. I'm not in the one % but I'm fine. And I'm not going to apologize to anyone for it. My father was a Ukrainian immigrant who never finished the 8th grade. I worked 55 hours a week as a Pizza Hut cook then manager to pay for my college and it took me 5.5 years at a shitty state school in Florida. Then I got a job entry level and worked my way up because I worked harder than anyone else on my team. It was fucking call center work. I took the weekend shifts. I took the supervisor calls. I did the 12-11PM shift because it paid 10% shift diff. I didn't call out on Friday night because Pearl Jam was in town like every other 26 year old. Eventually I leveraged all my experience to a great job. The opportunities exist in this country..still. I'm 43 now with three kids. Two will be in college in the next few years. So free college might benefit me I suppose, but it's not economically feasible, or more specifically, it's not the best way to maximize tax dollars.
And I sure as hell am not putting party in front of country. If I was, I would be a Republican. It would financially benefit me. I'm putting party in front of Bernie. And Hillary. I would have preferred Biden. But he chose not to run.
I have no problem with super delegates. I know precisely why they were created in 1980. My criticism is the ENDLESS disparagement of the process and about how un-democratic it is, by Bernie's camp. But now his going to try to leverage them? Hillary is a politician. I know what her story is. I've followed her since 1992, my first election. I have no illusions. But Bernie is an illusion and the narrative constructed around him is false. The super delegate is just the latest example. Tad Devine is yet another example.
Last, Hillary voted for McCain-Feingold. So I'm not sure why you think she can't use the system that's necessary today, and still want reinstate soft money bans. If you think for one second that Bernie would not be forced to take super-pac money in a general election, you are kidding yourself. He wouldn't be able to support down ballot races and run a campaign to compete with a Republican. It's simple supply and demand of limited TV time.
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/07/the-founding-fathers-tried-to-warn-us-about-the-threat-from-a-two-party-system.html
The Founding Fathers Tried to Warn Us About the Threat From a Two-Party System
But to answer your question, a 2 party system isn't as corrupt as you can get. An individual can be just as corrupt as a party. Corruption isn't inherent to parties, it's inherent to power and humans. My statement is that I support the Democrats. I would have preferred Biden, Kerry again, and others. The Democratic party best represents my general views. Bernie does NOT best represent my views on a whole host of issues. I'm not a socialist. I'm a capitalist that believes in the progressive tax system. But if Bernie won the nomination, I would support him because he better represents my views vs. Trump. And staying home or casting a protest vote is pointless to me.