This is such a complex topic and the OP does a good job presenting his argument. My opinion is that there are over one billion Muslims and the vast majority are peaceful. My concern is this: millions of Muslims are pouring into the West. There are some cultural issues here regarding how Muslim communities get along with other religious and cultural groups. In extreme cases there are honor killings and female genital mutilation. I have a difficult time seeing woman in burkas in my community, to me they looked highly restricted. I also think overall treatment of woman is one of second class citizenship.
Any extremist group gives me the creeps. Reading about the nutty breakaway fundamentalist Mormon group (FLDS) that ran the towns (the Warren Jeffs towns) that made women and girls dress in long dresses, I think they weren't allowed to cut their hair, they were traded at a very young age as wives to various men - ugh. They ran the police department, too.
In Israel - the ultra Orthodox Jews separating men and women, women once again forced to wear "modest" clothing, no TV or movies, very restrictive behavior, etc.
Nutty Christian groups, too. Extremists - blech.
Like I said, I've just started reading the Quran and so far, it's very much like the bible. And very interesting to read.
I have a difficult time seeing woman in burkas in my community, to me they looked highly restricted. I also think overall treatment of woman is one of second class citizenship.
I'm not sure if you mean an actual burka, such as are worn by women in Afghanistan, or the head covering called a hijab. This is a pretty good article with illustrations about the different kinds of garments worn by Muslim women: http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/24118241.
In a secular country such as the U.S., head coverings are optional. Other than the slight distraction of seeing someone with one, I've come to admire the women that I see that choose to wear it. It takes some courage to publicly show your religious affiliation in a society where there is so much anti-Muslim sentiment.
I have a difficult time seeing woman in burkas in my community, to me they looked highly restricted. I also think overall treatment of woman is one of second class citizenship.
I'm not sure if you mean an actual burka, such as are worn by women in Afghanistan, or the head covering called a hijab. This is a pretty good article with illustrations about the different kinds of garments worn by Muslim women: http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/24118241.
In a secular country such as the U.S., head coverings are optional. Other than the slight distraction of seeing someone with one, I've come to admire the women that I see that choose to wear it. It takes some courage to publicly show your religious affiliation in a society where there is so much anti-Muslim sentiment.
I'm referring to the total covering of the face and body except for the hands and eyes. Nun garb gives me the creeps too. Only nuns wear it voluntarily. Woman are required to wear at least the head covering in Islamic countries such as Saudi Arabia and Iran.
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I have a difficult time seeing woman in burkas in my community, to me they looked highly restricted. I also think overall treatment of woman is one of second class citizenship.
I'm not sure if you mean an actual burka, such as are worn by women in Afghanistan, or the head covering called a hijab. This is a pretty good article with illustrations about the different kinds of garments worn by Muslim women: http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/24118241.
In a secular country such as the U.S., head coverings are optional. Other than the slight distraction of seeing someone with one, I've come to admire the women that I see that choose to wear it. It takes some courage to publicly show your religious affiliation in a society where there is so much anti-Muslim sentiment.
I'm referring to the total covering of the face and body except for the hands and eyes. Nun garb gives me the creeps too. Only nuns wear it voluntarily. Woman are required to wear at least the head covering in Islamic countries such as Saudi Arabia and Iran.
My husband thinks nuns are creepy too. I went to Catholic schools so I don't think twice about it, other than the way they are usually depicted in movies or TV, which tends to be very inaccurate.
Yes, in heavily Islamic countries you'll see women covered and I don't care for that. But subjugation of women in the world is a whole different issue and not exclusive to Islam.
I have a difficult time seeing woman in burkas in my community, to me they looked highly restricted. I also think overall treatment of woman is one of second class citizenship.
I'm not sure if you mean an actual burka, such as are worn by women in Afghanistan, or the head covering called a hijab. This is a pretty good article with illustrations about the different kinds of garments worn by Muslim women: http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/24118241.
In a secular country such as the U.S., head coverings are optional. Other than the slight distraction of seeing someone with one, I've come to admire the women that I see that choose to wear it. It takes some courage to publicly show your religious affiliation in a society where there is so much anti-Muslim sentiment.
I'm referring to the total covering of the face and body except for the hands and eyes. Nun garb gives me the creeps too. Only nuns wear it voluntarily. Woman are required to wear at least the head covering in Islamic countries such as Saudi Arabia and Iran.
My husband thinks nuns are creepy too. I went to Catholic schools so I don't think twice about it, other than the way they are usually depicted in movies or TV, which tends to be very inaccurate.
Yes, in heavily Islamic countries you'll see women covered and I don't care for that. But subjugation of women in the world is a whole different issue and not exclusive to Islam.
I'd say that subjugation is kicked up a couple notches in some Islamic based places.
Yes, in heavily Islamic countries you'll see women covered and I don't care for that. But subjugation of women in the world is a whole different issue and not exclusive to Islam.
I'd say that subjugation is kicked up a couple notches in some Islamic based places.
I suppose that's true but I'm thinking as well of third world countries in Africa and Asia, that are not Islamic but where women are essentially chattel.
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
My husband thinks nuns are creepy too. I went to Catholic schools so I don't think twice about it, other than the way they are usually depicted in movies or TV, which tends to be very inaccurate.
Wait just a minute here...are you saying nuns don't fly?
My husband thinks nuns are creepy too. I went to Catholic schools so I don't think twice about it, other than the way they are usually depicted in movies or TV, which tends to be very inaccurate.
Wait just a minute here...are you saying nuns don't fly?
I never considered them religious. I suspect if their was a god he would absolutely be appalled by their actions and the actions of many so called religious folks.
yet not so appalled that hes moved to do anything about it.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,759
Not sure where to post this but this seems like a good place:
has nothing to do with isis, has nothing to do with the 3 tenets in the main article.
sad that this happened, but has nothing to do with this thread.
care to discuss the topic?
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,759
BS, in the interview with Levy you posted elsewhere, Levy talks about the wisdom on supporting the Muslims who are not part of the radical, violent faction. It seems to me in a way this support the three tenets in the OP article. We need to stop looking at Muslims as all the same and understand that most are not involved in the extremest's violent actions.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
BS, in the interview with Levy you posted elsewhere, Levy talks about the wisdom on supporting the Muslims who are not part of the radical, violent faction. It seems to me in a way this support the three tenets in the OP article. We need to stop looking at Muslims as all the same and understand that most are not involved in the extremest's violent actions.
I actually think the video doesn't support the OP as Levy makes two points 1) it is not all muslims (which I absolutely agree with) 2) But one can't say it has "nothing to do with islam" (which I absolutely agree with as well). My problem with what the OP has written is that moderate muslims can absolutely point to these tenets as evidence while at the same time radical muslims can point to others to justify their violence. The attack in Lahore is a perfect example. The Taliban who are taking credit think it goes against the quran for non-muslims to be celebrating their religion in an Islamic country. They see it as an affront to allah. So with all due respect to the OP I think it does us all a great deservice when we remove the Islam from the conversation. That being said...if Islamic preachers and educators are taking these tenets to their people in order to make it clear that their religion does not condone violence it would be a whole different story. In many communities this is happening but unfortunately in many others it is not.
BS, in the interview with Levy you posted elsewhere, Levy talks about the wisdom on supporting the Muslims who are not part of the radical, violent faction. It seems to me in a way this support the three tenets in the OP article. We need to stop looking at Muslims as all the same and understand that most are not involved in the extremest's violent actions.
I actually think the video doesn't support the OP as Levy makes two points 1) it is not all muslims (which I absolutely agree with) 2) But one can't say it has "nothing to do with islam" (which I absolutely agree with as well). My problem with what the OP has written is that moderate muslims can absolutely point to these tenets as evidence while at the same time radical muslims can point to others to justify their violence. The attack in Lahore is a perfect example. The Taliban who are taking credit think it goes against the quran for non-muslims to be celebrating their religion in an Islamic country. They see it as an affront to allah. So with all due respect to the OP I think it does us all a great deservice when we remove the Islam from the conversation. That being said...if Islamic preachers and educators are taking these tenets to their people in order to make it clear that their religion does not condone violence it would be a whole different story. In many communities this is happening but unfortunately in many others it is not.
by your rationale it is religion in general that is the problem, no?
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
BS, in the interview with Levy you posted elsewhere, Levy talks about the wisdom on supporting the Muslims who are not part of the radical, violent faction. It seems to me in a way this support the three tenets in the OP article. We need to stop looking at Muslims as all the same and understand that most are not involved in the extremest's violent actions.
I actually think the video doesn't support the OP as Levy makes two points 1) it is not all muslims (which I absolutely agree with) 2) But one can't say it has "nothing to do with islam" (which I absolutely agree with as well). My problem with what the OP has written is that moderate muslims can absolutely point to these tenets as evidence while at the same time radical muslims can point to others to justify their violence. The attack in Lahore is a perfect example. The Taliban who are taking credit think it goes against the quran for non-muslims to be celebrating their religion in an Islamic country. They see it as an affront to allah. So with all due respect to the OP I think it does us all a great deservice when we remove the Islam from the conversation. That being said...if Islamic preachers and educators are taking these tenets to their people in order to make it clear that their religion does not condone violence it would be a whole different story. In many communities this is happening but unfortunately in many others it is not.
by your rationale it is religion in general that is the problem, no?
Comments
In Israel - the ultra Orthodox Jews separating men and women, women once again forced to wear "modest" clothing, no TV or movies, very restrictive behavior, etc.
Nutty Christian groups, too. Extremists - blech.
Like I said, I've just started reading the Quran and so far, it's very much like the bible. And very interesting to read.
In a secular country such as the U.S., head coverings are optional. Other than the slight distraction of seeing someone with one, I've come to admire the women that I see that choose to wear it. It takes some courage to publicly show your religious affiliation in a society where there is so much anti-Muslim sentiment.
Albuquerque, NM Tingley Coliseum July 7, 1998
New York City, NY MSG May 20, 2010
Eddie Vedder Solo Albuquerque, NM November 9, 2012
Wrigley Field July 19, 2013
LA Nov. 23: 24, 2013
Denver 10-22-14
My husband thinks nuns are creepy too. I went to Catholic schools so I don't think twice about it, other than the way they are usually depicted in movies or TV, which tends to be very inaccurate.
Yes, in heavily Islamic countries you'll see women covered and I don't care for that. But subjugation of women in the world is a whole different issue and not exclusive to Islam.
yet not so appalled that hes moved to do anything about it.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
http://www.itv.com/news/2015-12-09/british-soldier-who-lost-leg-in-iraq-issues-powerful-message-to-those-who-think-he-should-hate-muslims/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/12204357/Muslim-shopkeeper-murdered-in-suspected-religiously-prejudiced-attack-after-posting-on-Facebook-of-love-for-Christians.html
has nothing to do with isis, has nothing to do with the 3 tenets in the main article.
sad that this happened, but has nothing to do with this thread.
care to discuss the topic?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."