Fascism: Can It Happen Here?

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  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    riotgrl said:

    Have any of you read this article on the rise of American authoritarianism? http://www.vox.com/2016/3/1/11127424/trump-authoritarianism

    I think this is an interesting analysis about the rise of Trump, and others like him, that transcend education levels, socioeconomic status, and even political leanings. The gist of the article is that people who espouse an authoritarian style resist change and struggle with chaos. They value political and economic leaders who will institute order. Its long but a really interesting read.

    It was interesting and makes a lot of sense.
    For years now, before anyone thought a person like Donald Trump could possibly lead a presidential primary, a small but respected niche of academic research has been laboring over a question, part political science and part psychology, that had captivated political scientists since the rise of the Nazis.

    How do people come to adopt, in such large numbers and so rapidly, extreme political views that seem to coincide with fear of minorities and with the desire for a strongman leader.
    My fist answer to this is Fox News. The article answered it better, but along the Same lines.
    The political phenomenon we identify as right-wing populism seems to line up, with almost astonishing precision, with the research on how authoritarianism is both caused and expressed
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    After reading most of the article, I couldn't help but think about how we drove citizens into an authoritarian mind frame rather than evolve as we are supposed to. And then I remember how not only events (the few big terror attacks) induced it, but Fox and mainstream media in general has a lot to do with it. Really does.
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124

    rgambs said:

    BS44325 said:

    You will see fascism when people who want to debate science are called "deniers" and when the justice department meets to discuss how these deniers can be charged under existing laws.

    Hahaha what an even bigger crock!
    science, by definition, is truth. it can't be debated. if someone wants to refute 99.8% of scientists on climate change, they are disingenuous at best, in denial. or lying at worst.
    Science by definition isn't "truth"...it is the "search for the truth". There is a huge difference. What science proves one day can be re-tested and be refuted the next. It happens all the time. At least that is what my MSc. degree taught me.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038


    Either way, science is closer to truth than denial of global warming is. But, do we really need for this to become a discussion about global warming. We're all beyond that, right?

    Right. I thought so.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    brianlux said:



    Either way, science is closer to truth than denial of global warming is. But, do we really need for this to become a discussion about global warming. We're all beyond that, right?

    Right. I thought so.

    The earth warms, the earth cools, climate changes, man's actions contribute. To what degree know one knows. The earth's ability to cope with these changes? Again no one knows. To suggest that the science is settled on any of these issues is fascism. To suggest that anyone who questions the current science is a heretic is fascism. Science is far more about skepticism then truth. Every study starts by trying to disprove a null hyothesis. Fascism prevents this kind of research as it undermines authority.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    "To suggest that anyone who questions the current science is a heretic is fascism." Question all you want. You have that right. I've never said or even suggested you are not allowed to question anything. Yeah, sure, if I said, "BS, you are not allowed to question global warming", that would be a relatively fascist statement.

    Now as to why anyone with half a brain any any kind of common sense would argue with the 97% of scientists who agree that global warming is anthropogenic... rolling eyes, baby, rolling eyes.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    brianlux said:

    "To suggest that anyone who questions the current science is a heretic is fascism." Question all you want. You have that right. I've never said or even suggested you are not allowed to question anything. Yeah, sure, if I said, "BS, you are not allowed to question global warming", that would be a relatively fascist statement.

    Now as to why anyone with half a brain any any kind of common sense would argue with the 97% of scientists who agree that global warming is anthropogenic... rolling eyes, baby, rolling eyes.

    Many scientists can and do argue with the "97%" and the number disputing current science is growing everyday as new data rolls in. For you to label these scientists as people without "any common sense" or as people with less then "half a brain" is the same as preaching heresy from your current enviro-religious dogma. You may think your rolling eyes are innocent but they are actual rolling eyes of fascism where academics are pressured to go along with conventional wisdom for fear of being ostracized.
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    "To suggest that anyone who questions the current science is a heretic is fascism." Question all you want. You have that right. I've never said or even suggested you are not allowed to question anything. Yeah, sure, if I said, "BS, you are not allowed to question global warming", that would be a relatively fascist statement.

    Now as to why anyone with half a brain any any kind of common sense would argue with the 97% of scientists who agree that global warming is anthropogenic... rolling eyes, baby, rolling eyes.

    Many scientists can and do argue with the "97%" and the number disputing current science is growing everyday as new data rolls in. For you to label these scientists as people without "any common sense" or as people with less then "half a brain" is the same as preaching heresy from your current enviro-religious dogma. You may think your rolling eyes are innocent but they are actual rolling eyes of fascism where academics are pressured to go along with conventional wisdom for fear of being ostracized.
    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    "To suggest that anyone who questions the current science is a heretic is fascism." Question all you want. You have that right. I've never said or even suggested you are not allowed to question anything. Yeah, sure, if I said, "BS, you are not allowed to question global warming", that would be a relatively fascist statement.

    Now as to why anyone with half a brain any any kind of common sense would argue with the 97% of scientists who agree that global warming is anthropogenic... rolling eyes, baby, rolling eyes.

    Many scientists can and do argue with the "97%" and the number disputing current science is growing everyday as new data rolls in. For you to label these scientists as people without "any common sense" or as people with less then "half a brain" is the same as preaching heresy from your current enviro-religious dogma. You may think your rolling eyes are innocent but they are actual rolling eyes of fascism where academics are pressured to go along with conventional wisdom for fear of being ostracized.
    The only scientists that are in the denial class are being directly paid to preach that. Paid to deny climate science usually for political reasons.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    "To suggest that anyone who questions the current science is a heretic is fascism." Question all you want. You have that right. I've never said or even suggested you are not allowed to question anything. Yeah, sure, if I said, "BS, you are not allowed to question global warming", that would be a relatively fascist statement.

    Now as to why anyone with half a brain any any kind of common sense would argue with the 97% of scientists who agree that global warming is anthropogenic... rolling eyes, baby, rolling eyes.

    Many scientists can and do argue with the "97%" and the number disputing current science is growing everyday as new data rolls in. For you to label these scientists as people without "any common sense" or as people with less then "half a brain" is the same as preaching heresy from your current enviro-religious dogma. You may think your rolling eyes are innocent but they are actual rolling eyes of fascism where academics are pressured to go along with conventional wisdom for fear of being ostracized.
    Oh, actually I think the 97% of scientist that confer on anthropogenic global warming are quite smart to brilliant. The other 3% work for oil corporations. But, really, are we having this conversation again?

    :fascistrollingeyesemotocon:
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    Free said:

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    "To suggest that anyone who questions the current science is a heretic is fascism." Question all you want. You have that right. I've never said or even suggested you are not allowed to question anything. Yeah, sure, if I said, "BS, you are not allowed to question global warming", that would be a relatively fascist statement.

    Now as to why anyone with half a brain any any kind of common sense would argue with the 97% of scientists who agree that global warming is anthropogenic... rolling eyes, baby, rolling eyes.

    Many scientists can and do argue with the "97%" and the number disputing current science is growing everyday as new data rolls in. For you to label these scientists as people without "any common sense" or as people with less then "half a brain" is the same as preaching heresy from your current enviro-religious dogma. You may think your rolling eyes are innocent but they are actual rolling eyes of fascism where academics are pressured to go along with conventional wisdom for fear of being ostracized.
    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    "To suggest that anyone who questions the current science is a heretic is fascism." Question all you want. You have that right. I've never said or even suggested you are not allowed to question anything. Yeah, sure, if I said, "BS, you are not allowed to question global warming", that would be a relatively fascist statement.

    Now as to why anyone with half a brain any any kind of common sense would argue with the 97% of scientists who agree that global warming is anthropogenic... rolling eyes, baby, rolling eyes.

    Many scientists can and do argue with the "97%" and the number disputing current science is growing everyday as new data rolls in. For you to label these scientists as people without "any common sense" or as people with less then "half a brain" is the same as preaching heresy from your current enviro-religious dogma. You may think your rolling eyes are innocent but they are actual rolling eyes of fascism where academics are pressured to go along with conventional wisdom for fear of being ostracized.
    The only scientists that are in the denial class are being directly paid to preach that. Paid to deny climate science usually for political reasons.
    You are proving my point.
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    edited March 2016
    BS44325 said:

    Free said:

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    "To suggest that anyone who questions the current science is a heretic is fascism." Question all you want. You have that right. I've never said or even suggested you are not allowed to question anything. Yeah, sure, if I said, "BS, you are not allowed to question global warming", that would be a relatively fascist statement.

    Now as to why anyone with half a brain any any kind of common sense would argue with the 97% of scientists who agree that global warming is anthropogenic... rolling eyes, baby, rolling eyes.

    Many scientists can and do argue with the "97%" and the number disputing current science is growing everyday as new data rolls in. For you to label these scientists as people without "any common sense" or as people with less then "half a brain" is the same as preaching heresy from your current enviro-religious dogma. You may think your rolling eyes are innocent but they are actual rolling eyes of fascism where academics are pressured to go along with conventional wisdom for fear of being ostracized.
    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    "To suggest that anyone who questions the current science is a heretic is fascism." Question all you want. You have that right. I've never said or even suggested you are not allowed to question anything. Yeah, sure, if I said, "BS, you are not allowed to question global warming", that would be a relatively fascist statement.

    Now as to why anyone with half a brain any any kind of common sense would argue with the 97% of scientists who agree that global warming is anthropogenic... rolling eyes, baby, rolling eyes.

    Many scientists can and do argue with the "97%" and the number disputing current science is growing everyday as new data rolls in. For you to label these scientists as people without "any common sense" or as people with less then "half a brain" is the same as preaching heresy from your current enviro-religious dogma. You may think your rolling eyes are innocent but they are actual rolling eyes of fascism where academics are pressured to go along with conventional wisdom for fear of being ostracized.
    The only scientists that are in the denial class are being directly paid to preach that. Paid to deny climate science usually for political reasons.
    You are proving my point.
    Fuck being ostracized for reporting truth. Bunch of cowards taking money for reporting false information. Integrity is everything. And there have been scientists who had been fired for standing up for the truth. They know the truth is better then a job.
  • what dreamswhat dreams Posts: 1,761
    We have been living in a corporate fascist country for a while. The corporations control everything. They have bought our government, they have bought us. Everything we Americans do is driven by consumerism. Even those of us who want to escape it can't.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576

    We have been living in a corporate fascist country for a while. The corporations control everything. They have bought our government, they have bought us. Everything we Americans do is driven by consumerism. Even those of us who want to escape it can't.

    You can get pretty disconnected from it if you so choose! For less than the price of a tiny condo in a large city you can buy a house with acreage in the country and get right.
    We live in a manufactured home on full basement with a 6 car barn and 5 acres near Amish country in Ohio...and it didn't even cost $100,000!!
    Consumerism is like a ghost around here, we here about it from idiots, but we never encounter it ourselves!

    Of course, the politics and operation of the system that surrounds our bubble is terrible, but you can create a bubble!
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • what dreamswhat dreams Posts: 1,761
    rgambs said:

    We have been living in a corporate fascist country for a while. The corporations control everything. They have bought our government, they have bought us. Everything we Americans do is driven by consumerism. Even those of us who want to escape it can't.

    You can get pretty disconnected from it if you so choose! For less than the price of a tiny condo in a large city you can buy a house with acreage in the country and get right.
    We live in a manufactured home on full basement with a 6 car barn and 5 acres near Amish country in Ohio...and it didn't even cost $100,000!!
    Consumerism is like a ghost around here, we here about it from idiots, but we never encounter it ourselves!

    Of course, the politics and operation of the system that surrounds our bubble is terrible, but you can create a bubble!
    It is possible to live a simple, quiet life, no doubt. In Amish country. But even those people have been commodified by the tourism industry.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576


    rgambs said:

    We have been living in a corporate fascist country for a while. The corporations control everything. They have bought our government, they have bought us. Everything we Americans do is driven by consumerism. Even those of us who want to escape it can't.

    You can get pretty disconnected from it if you so choose! For less than the price of a tiny condo in a large city you can buy a house with acreage in the country and get right.
    We live in a manufactured home on full basement with a 6 car barn and 5 acres near Amish country in Ohio...and it didn't even cost $100,000!!
    Consumerism is like a ghost around here, we here about it from idiots, but we never encounter it ourselves!

    Of course, the politics and operation of the system that surrounds our bubble is terrible, but you can create a bubble!
    It is possible to live a simple, quiet life, no doubt. In Amish country. But even those people have been commodified by the tourism industry.
    More so than the regular country folk like us for sure!
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 15,944
    I think there is a lot to fear from both the right and left. The far right can be racist and war hungry, and the far left can be very suppressive of free speech and non-left ideas (the bullies of all bullies).
  • myoung321myoung321 Posts: 2,855
    "Windrip is less a Nazi than a con-man-plus-Rotarian, a manipulator who knows how to appeal to people's desperation"

    Sound like someone???

    image

    image
    Poster for the stage adaptation of It Can't Happen Here, October 27, 1936 at the Lafayette Theater as part of the Detroit Federal Theater
    "The heart and mind are the true lens of the camera." - Yusuf Karsh
     


  • WhatYouTaughtMeWhatYouTaughtMe Posts: 4,957
    edited March 2016

    I think there is a lot to fear from both the right and left. The far right can be racist and war hungry, and the far left can be very suppressive of free speech and non-left ideas (the bullies of all bullies).

    ^^^This back and forth shifts a lot of focus from this...

    We have been living in a corporate fascist country for a while. The corporations control everything. They have bought our government, they have bought us. Everything we Americans do is driven by consumerism. Even those of us who want to escape it can't.

    It is by design. Do you think most of these politicians give a shit about abortion, gay marriage, and numerous other divisive issues? No. As long as they keep us fearful and hating each other, no monumental change in the structure of our gov't will come.
    Post edited by WhatYouTaughtMe on
  • Fascism can't happen with protesters like these.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/03/20/a-topless-woman-interrupts-bernie-sanderss-rally-she-was-there-to-protest-donald-trump/?tid=hybrid_experimentrandom_3_na

    At a Bernie rally? Wow.
    Do we call this woman a thug or a protester, not sure.
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