PJ Lacking Desire To Be The Best?

Weston1283

Tim Simmons said:

Abe Froman said:

I don't think nostalgia acts sell out 2 shows at Wrigley in 11 minutes and 2 shows at Fenway in 6 minutes.

Huh? Sure they could. Rolling Stones sell out stadiums all the time. So will Guns and Roses. Granted, PJ is still more vital than those bands, but don't mistake a rabid fanbase for being of the moment still.

But yes, I don't think TGAF. They just make and play tunes and that's great.

This. Pearl Jam is without a doubt, in my opinion, the best live band out there and the only band I would spend the kind of money I do to see.

But, if you look outside of our rabid fan base, they just arent really in the mainstream much anymore, which I am fine with. I like the way they do things, and I think them having a smaller but rabid fan base allows them to make each night more special and feel less obligated to perform to a large, mainstream audience.

And, like I already said, if they played outdoor summer shows at places with cheap lawn seats, it would REALLY help draw a younger audience.

Zod

rummy said:

U2 still tries to be the best band in the world and they get a lot of flack for it. I'm willing to bet the same would hold true for Pearl Jam.

I am a big fan of both bands but prefer the way Pearl Jam does things.

I remember reading a Bono interview once where he was talking about Pearl Jam and what they needed to do to be the biggest band in the world. I think it was around PJ's tipping point (mid 90s). PJ did the opposite. They pulled back. Bono couldn't understand why they didn't want to be mega huge.

I think Pearl Jam kept itself from being the biggest band in the world. It was something they (most likely spearheaded) by Eddie didn't want.

edit: I also can't think of many Rock bands/artists that put out some of their best works past the age of 50. Life changes you, and that drive you have when your younger, seems to wane as you get older (or priorities change). It doesn't mean it's impossible. I think Springsteen was just over 50 when he put out The Rising and it's one of my favourite Springsteen albums.

Abe Froman

Tim Simmons said:

Abe Froman said:

I don't think nostalgia acts sell out 2 shows at Wrigley in 11 minutes and 2 shows at Fenway in 6 minutes.

Huh? Sure they could. Rolling Stones sell out stadiums all the time. So will Guns and Roses. Granted, PJ is still more vital than those bands, but don't mistake a rabid fanbase for being of the moment still.

But yes, I don't think TGAF. They just make and play tunes and that's great.

Ok maybe (still don't think either of those bands cause the frenzy over tickets that PJ just did), but PJ is still far from a "nostalgia act" at this point in my opinion. My opinion of what that means i guess might be different than others though. PJ still seems very relevant in current music from what I can tell. They are still putting out very solid records, selling out large venues and are considered by MANY to be the best live act around.

Zod

Abe Froman said:

Ok maybe (still don't think either of those bands cause the frenzy over tickets that PJ just did), but PJ is still far from a "nostalgia act" at this point in my opinion. My opinion of what that means i guess might be different than others though. PJ still seems very relevant in current music from what I can tell. They are still putting out very solid records, selling out large venues and are considered by MANY to be the best live act around.

Pearl Jam is very relevant to us. It's what PJ has done. Instead of having an extremely large broad base of fans, they have a smaller more rabid fanbase. Outside of the fan base it seems not alot of people are aware PJ has kept putting out albums, or does 3.5 hour shows everynight with different setlists.

When you combine that with the fact that Rock itself is barely relevant among youth, how vital is current Pearl Jam music to the overall population? Not much. Most people know the first 3 albums and moved on.

I think the reason they sell out those stadiums is two fold. Boston and Chicago have huge metropolitan areas. I think Boston is around 8 million and Chicago around 10 million (the whole area not just the city). Those populations meet or exceed the entire populations of Western Canada . If your going to sell out a stadium it's going to be in a city with a massive population. There's a reason the whole tour isn't stadiums. They couldn't sell out stadiums everywhere. The second goes back to the die hard nature of Pearl Jam fans. Pearl Jam tours are getting smaller and smaller. Fans are traveling more than ever to see them play. That has a huge impact on their ability to sell out shows. They play fewer shows, the fans travel to the few shows they play, and it makes getting tickets fairly difficult. It also happens to be the hardest place to get tickets is the NorthEast of the US. The part of the US with big populations. When they play out West (with the exception of Seattle) it's not nearly as hard getting tickets because there's way less people out here. Remember all the West Coast dates in 2013 that had 2nd draws for fan club tickets because they didn't sell enough?

I do agree that Pearl Jam isn't a nostalgia act. They don't do a greatest hits set, and they don't pump out the same set every night. One of the biggest benefits of having a ravenous die hard fan base is most of them know your entire catalog. Unlike other bands they can play almost any song, and the audience will know it. That's something that doesn't happen when most of your audience is made up of casual fans.

hsohi

I like PJ and spend money on merch and will go see them live but honestly most other people I speak with like at work, are surprised that they are still around.

If you don't come to this website the odds of you reading about PJ is pretty low.

It is what it is.... A loyal small fan base that stuck with them since the 90s... I wouldn't say it's growing though.

As for being the best live act around it looks like there is more excitement from the general public for Beyoncé, Taylor Swift or Katy Perry or other hip hop acts.

KV4053

FoxyRedLa said:

Nostalgia? F that In my opinion PJ couldn't be more here and now.

+1

NWOntario

Zod said:

I think Springsteen was just over 50 when he put out The Rising and it's one of my favourite Springsteen albums.

He was 62 when he released Wrecking Ball, which is as good as his classic albums. It's a phenomenal record.

As for Pearl Jam, they were the biggest band of the world in the early 90s and it practically destroyed them both individually and collectively. Them pulling back and doing things on their own terms not only allowed them to survive, but I'd wager is a big reason why so many of us stuck with them. If that means they don't want to be the best then so be it. And I disagree fervently that their newer material isn't as good as their "classic" stuff.

Someone else mentioned U2, and how they openly yearn to be the biggest band in the world. I love U2, but whenever Bono talks about them reclaiming the mantle (which no one's really ever denied them) he sounds ridiculous. Personally, I'm totally comfortable having favourite bands (Pearl Jam and the Who) who've written music that's changed my life and who are still putting on incredible shows. I could care less what others think about them.

Abe Froman

Zod said:

Abe Froman said:

Ok maybe (still don't think either of those bands cause the frenzy over tickets that PJ just did), but PJ is still far from a "nostalgia act" at this point in my opinion. My opinion of what that means i guess might be different than others though. PJ still seems very relevant in current music from what I can tell. They are still putting out very solid records, selling out large venues and are considered by MANY to be the best live act around.

Pearl Jam is very relevant to us. It's what PJ has done. Instead of having an extremely large broad base of fans, they have a smaller more rabid fanbase. Outside of the fan base it seems not alot of people are aware PJ has kept putting out albums, or does 3.5 hour shows everynight with different setlists.

When you combine that with the fact that Rock itself is barely relevant among youth, how vital is current Pearl Jam music to the overall population? Not much. Most people know the first 3 albums and moved on.

I think the reason they sell out those stadiums is two fold. Boston and Chicago have huge metropolitan areas. I think Boston is around 8 million and Chicago around 10 million (the whole area not just the city). Those populations meet or exceed the entire populations of Western Canada . If your going to sell out a stadium it's going to be in a city with a massive population. There's a reason the whole tour isn't stadiums. They couldn't sell out stadiums everywhere. The second goes back to the die hard nature of Pearl Jam fans. Pearl Jam tours are getting smaller and smaller. Fans are traveling more than ever to see them play. That has a huge impact on their ability to sell out shows. They play fewer shows, the fans travel to the few shows they play, and it makes getting tickets fairly difficult. It also happens to be the hardest place to get tickets is the NorthEast of the US. The part of the US with big populations. When they play out West (with the exception of Seattle) it's not nearly as hard getting tickets because there's way less people out here. Remember all the West Coast dates in 2013 that had 2nd draws for fan club tickets because they didn't sell enough?

I do agree that Pearl Jam isn't a nostalgia act. They don't do a greatest hits set, and they don't pump out the same set every night. One of the biggest benefits of having a ravenous die hard fan base is most of them know your entire catalog. Unlike other bands they can play almost any song, and the audience will know it. That's something that doesn't happen when most of your audience is made up of casual fans.

I agree mostly with this especially the touring stuff. Im not sure about the knowing only first 3 albums though...

Most of the people I talk to are aware of them still making albums and hear about them being such a great live act. I will admit, most are music fans between 30-50 years old but definitely not all. Many are just random people that say something because I have a PJ shirt on and most if not all seem to at least know some current PJ tunes.

my2hands

Nostalgia acts don't put out #1 records with Mind Your Manners as a lead single...

sometimes there are things that do not fit into any pigeon hole description... the Grateful Dead never became a "nostalgia" band... nostalgia may be the draw for some fans when PJ comes to their city... but the experience at the concerts does not feel like "nostalgia" in anyway... they blow the roof off of venues utilizing their entire catalog and NEVER just go through the motions

I saw The Who last night on their 50th anniversary tour... total nostalgia act at this point, which is fine, but PJ is light years away from what I saw last night

Abe Froman

my2hands said:

Nostalgia acts don't put out #1 records with Mind Your Manners as a lead single...

sometimes there are things that do not fit into any pigeon hole description... the Grateful Dead never became a "nostalgia" band... nostalgia may be the draw for some fans when PJ comes to their city... but the experience at the concerts does not feel like "nostalgia" in anyway... they blow the roof off of venues utilizing their entire catalog and NEVER just go through the motions

I saw The Who last night on their 50th anniversary tour... total nostalgia act at this point, which is fine, but PJ is light years away from what I saw last night

Exactly. Well said.

pjalive21

my2hands said:

Nostalgia acts don't put out #1 records with Mind Your Manners as a lead single...

sometimes there are things that do not fit into any pigeon hole description... the Grateful Dead never became a "nostalgia" band... nostalgia may be the draw for some fans when PJ comes to their city... but the experience at the concerts does not feel like "nostalgia" in anyway... they blow the roof off of venues utilizing their entire catalog and NEVER just go through the motions

I saw The Who last night on their 50th anniversary tour... total nostalgia act at this point, which is fine, but PJ is light years away from what I saw last night

Agree with your assessment....to me when I think of nostalgia I think of The Who, like you mentioned, and AC/DC...people like that touring around playing the same set and the greatest hits every night...I still think PJ are at the point in their career where they are doing what they want and at their own pace. To me they are still evolving even in their 50's

rummy

I love PJ and appreciate that they pull out a significant portion of their back-catalog on all of their tours. However, let's not kid ourselves - they still play a lot of hits:

15 most-frequently played songs during LB tour (according to PJdb.net):

1 Porch (81 plays - 93% of shows)
2 Mind Your Manners (66 plays - 76% of shows)
3 Elderly Woman Behind The Counter In A Small Town (63 plays - 72% of shows)
3 Lightning Bolt (63 plays - 72% of shows)
3 Alive (63 plays - 72% of shows)
6 Sirens (61 plays - 70% of shows)
7 Better Man (60 plays - 69% of shows)
8 Do The Evolution (59 plays - 68% of shows)
9 Even Flow (58 plays - 67% of shows)
10 Given To Fly (57 plays - 66% of shows)
11 Corduroy (55 plays - 63% of shows)
12 Rearviewmirror (47 plays - 54% of shows)
13 Black (44 plays - 51% of shows)
14 Rockin' In The Free World (43 plays - 49% of shows)
15 Jeremy (38 plays - 44% of shows)

Gibbon to Fly

When they sign up for their seven days a week, two year stint in Las Vegas THEN I'll call them Nostalgic.

*** Please note - I know this will never happen..................thank God.

P-Town-P-Jam-Fan

Music is art, its subjective and not a competition. Totally disagree with this thread

jsvajgl

I think it would be interesting to see them pushed a little, such as working with Rick Rubin on their next record, for example.

Walking the miles

rummy said:

I love PJ and appreciate that they pull out a significant portion of their back-catalog on all of their tours. However, let's not kid ourselves - they still play a lot of hits:

15 most-frequently played songs during LB tour (according to PJdb.net):

1 Porch (81 plays - 93% of shows)
2 Mind Your Manners (66 plays - 76% of shows)
3 Elderly Woman Behind The Counter In A Small Town (63 plays - 72% of shows)
3 Lightning Bolt (63 plays - 72% of shows)
3 Alive (63 plays - 72% of shows)
6 Sirens (61 plays - 70% of shows)
7 Better Man (60 plays - 69% of shows)
8 Do The Evolution (59 plays - 68% of shows)
9 Even Flow (58 plays - 67% of shows)
10 Given To Fly (57 plays - 66% of shows)
11 Corduroy (55 plays - 63% of shows)
12 Rearviewmirror (47 plays - 54% of shows)
13 Black (44 plays - 51% of shows)
14 Rockin' In The Free World (43 plays - 49% of shows)
15 Jeremy (38 plays - 44% of shows)

But three of those fifteen are from the most recent album. Normally you play the hits from your newest album, so I'd remove those from the list. I'm pretty sure Bruce always plays "Born to Run" pretty much all the time.
I'm happy they're playing, and I'm proud of their live shows. Why am I proud?, I don't know, but I am.
And I also think the last two albums are their best in awhile.

dmaradona10

There's only one "best around" and that is Joe Esposito!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBktYJsJq-E

PJfanwillneverleave1

Threads like this make me go to my happy place.

Walking the miles

YeeeeHaw!

wnh1977

jsvajgl said:

I think it would be interesting to see them pushed a little, such as working with Rick Rubin on their next record, for example.

Thanks jsvajgl. This is all I was getting to. In my original post, there was no mention of nostalgia (although I agree with some that they're on the cusp of that). The main question I was asking is "have they maximized their potential?" Also, I made no mention of concert ticket prices being too high... I did comment that merchandising seems to be a lot bigger for the band these days. They are, no doubt, an amazing live band. Funny how so many say "harrumph" and get all defensive whenever anybody asks a critical question about this band. I love the band. Just asking opinions.

When they make comments about writing simpler songs that are easier to perform, I wonder if they've lost the desire to push themselves. Backspacer and Lightning Bolt are the only albums we've had since 2007! I like them. I know a lot of people don't care for them, but I like them. But those are the only two albums in the past decade! They sound like they could be from the same Brendan O'Brien sessions.

Additionally, there's never a mention of being hungry and eager to get back in the studio... the tone is more, "eventually one of us will pick up the phone" or "eventually our schedules will align".