Voter participation - what is your stance?

Leezestarr313

I always hear about people who say they don't vote because they think the system is rigged anyways and or they don't like any of the candidates or they are too lazy or... I always felt like a person who doesn't go and use their right to vote does not have a right to complain.
Voter turnouts have been pretty low in Germany, and also over here in America in recent days. I am a greencard holder, and thus, not eligible to vote for the presidential election. I think I am allowed to vote in regional elections, but I am not entirely sure. I am also not allowed to vote in German elections anymore because I am not living there anymore. And it bothers me. I am interested in what peoples' stance here is and also the reasons why someone would not go and vote.

PJfanwillneverleave1

Of course I vote, because...

if you don't vote you have zero credibility in your opinion.

brianlux

Of course I vote, because...

...because I can and because making one iota of a difference is greater than none. I'm not sure not voting gives you zero credibility in your opinion but it sure knocks the hell out of it.

HesCalledDyer

I am undecided, because...

The two party system often creates a set of choices neither of which appeal to me. By not voting in that situation, that's my voice & vote. I'm not going to vote for a lesser of two evils just because I'm able to.

To simply say "if you don't vote, you don't get to complain" or "your opinion isn't credible" is not a valid argument at all. It's a right, not an obligation. If I choose not to exercise that right, there's obviously valid reason(s) why.

Personally I think uneducated voting, or party-line voting is more detrimental than not voting for one of two choices you don't agree with.

rgambs

Of course I vote, because...

HesCalledDyer said:

The two party system often creates a set of choices neither of which appeal to me. By not voting in that situation, that's my voice & vote. I'm not going to vote for a lesser of two evils just because I'm able to.

To simply say "if you don't vote, you don't get to complain" or "your opinion isn't credible" is not a valid argument at all. It's a right, not an obligation. If I choose not to exercise that right, there's obviously valid reason(s) why.

Personally I think uneducated voting, or party-line voting is more detrimental than not voting for one of two choices you don't agree with.

That sounds like a whole lot of excuses used to make apathy sound legitimate.

Do things like gay marriage, marijuana criminalization, abortion legality, immigration, human rights, war spending and money in politics have no importance?

If you sit out, and Ayatollah Cruz gets elected, then you truly have no right to a credible opinion on these issues because you had a chance to try to prevent it, and instead you chose to do nothing at all.

callen

Of course I vote, because...

Ah what Gambs said above.

JimmyV

Of course I vote, because...

I've voted in every national and statewide election since I turned 18 in 1994. I can't imagine not. Town elections are trickier because I'm not always up to speed on the issues or candidates, but I try.

HesCalledDyer

I am undecided, because...

rgambs said:

HesCalledDyer said:

The two party system often creates a set of choices neither of which appeal to me. By not voting in that situation, that's my voice & vote. I'm not going to vote for a lesser of two evils just because I'm able to.

To simply say "if you don't vote, you don't get to complain" or "your opinion isn't credible" is not a valid argument at all. It's a right, not an obligation. If I choose not to exercise that right, there's obviously valid reason(s) why.

Personally I think uneducated voting, or party-line voting is more detrimental than not voting for one of two choices you don't agree with.

That sounds like a whole lot of excuses used to make apathy sound legitimate.

Do things like gay marriage, marijuana criminalization, abortion legality, immigration, human rights, war spending and money in politics have no importance?

If you sit out, and Ayatollah Cruz gets elected, then you truly have no right to a credible opinion on these issues because you had a chance to try to prevent it, and instead you chose to do nothing at all.

If I'm given only two choices, and both are terrible and I don't agree with either of them, how is voting for one on them "just because" an excuse or apathetic?

Secondly, where do you see "a whole lot" of excuses? I gave one reason and one reason only: I'm not choosing a lesser of two evils just because.

Yes, all of the things you mentioned bear great importance. I would vote in support of my stance on all of them.

All I'm saying is there are times when I disagree with either choice. Why would I vote for something I don't support?

An exception would be if this presidential election comes down to Trump/Hillary. I don't like either one but fuck Trump!

rgambs

Of course I vote, because...

HesCalledDyer said:

rgambs said:

HesCalledDyer said:

The two party system often creates a set of choices neither of which appeal to me. By not voting in that situation, that's my voice & vote. I'm not going to vote for a lesser of two evils just because I'm able to.

To simply say "if you don't vote, you don't get to complain" or "your opinion isn't credible" is not a valid argument at all. It's a right, not an obligation. If I choose not to exercise that right, there's obviously valid reason(s) why.

Personally I think uneducated voting, or party-line voting is more detrimental than not voting for one of two choices you don't agree with.

That sounds like a whole lot of excuses used to make apathy sound legitimate.

Do things like gay marriage, marijuana criminalization, abortion legality, immigration, human rights, war spending and money in politics have no importance?

If you sit out, and Ayatollah Cruz gets elected, then you truly have no right to a credible opinion on these issues because you had a chance to try to prevent it, and instead you chose to do nothing at all.

If I'm given only two choices, and both are terrible and I don't agree with either of them, how is voting for one on them "just because" an excuse or apathetic?

Secondly, where do you see "a whole lot" of excuses? I gave one reason and one reason only: I'm not choosing a lesser of two evils just because.

Yes, all of the things you mentioned bear great importance. I would vote in support of my stance on all of them.

All I'm saying is there are times when I disagree with either choice. Why would I vote for something I don't support?

An exception would be if this presidential election comes down to Trump/Hillary. I don't like either one but fuck Trump!

The point is that whether or not you like the candidate, the issues are at stake. If too many smart people like yourself choose not to vote, we are looking at a roll back of Roe V Wade, a new crop of bigotry laws, a strengthening of Citizens United, an almost guarantee of a new war, and countless other dogmatic conservative regressions.
You vote for someone you don't support because it's not about the candidate, it's about the issues.

mickeyrat

Of course I vote, because...

Because I feel it is my civic duty and responsibility to participate.

Where I get hung up, as a registered Independent (unaffiliated) since I first registered to vote in 1988 , my state does not have open primaries. So I am left with which ever choices my partisan fellow citizens decide to put up for nomination. The roughly 30% of my fellow eligible voter citizens.

HesCalledDyer

I am undecided, because...

But if I don't like either choice on whatever the issue is, I can't consciously support one of them. You're looking at what I'm saying a little too deeply.

I'm not saying I don't show up at the polls. In fact, I have never not voted. I have always voted in every primary, every mid-term, every general, & every local election. It's just that sometimes there are things on the ticket where I don't like either choice I'm given - whether it is a candidate & the issues they support, or just an issue in general. I'm not going to vote for something I don't support, just to cast a vote.

If I show up to the poll and there are, for sake of argument, 35 things to vote on and 2 of those things have choices I don't support in either direction, then I'm voting on the other 33 things and skipping those 2. If the choice is "lima beans or brussels sprouts" for my dinner side, I'll just skip & have the main course. Terrible analogy, I know, but that's the gist of what I'm saying.

JimmyV

Of course I vote, because...

What I find interesting is that this election may come down to a lifelong reality TV star vs a lifelong politician under investigation by the FBI...arguably the worst choices we've ever had...and the ridiculousness of it all may drive record turnout.

Free

Of course I vote, because...

He's called Dyer, ever think of voting for a write in candidate? That way you vote but you vote on your terms you can write in Mickey Mouse if you want but you still go out and exercise your right.

brianlux

Of course I vote, because...

I think it's worth noting that voting is just the beginning of the political system. The idea is, you vote for the person you think is most qualified (and yes, Free, writing in is an option some often overlook) and you vote yes or no on a measure or proposition. But why stop there? We also have the choice to attend city council meetings, county board meeting, state legislative sessions and write and/or call the White House. When you vote, you are at the beginning of the process. It is often a frustrating process but it can also be successful as I have personally found to be true on a number of occasions.

hedonist

Love Carlin's stance on voting.

I totally get what Dyer is saying. I've never not voted but have skipped issues on which I was uninformed or didn't like the options / candidates offered.

Been doing the absentee ballot thing for the last few years, so that allows time to mull shit over.

brianlux

Of course I vote, because...

hedonist said:

Love Carlin's stance on voting.

I totally get what Dyer is saying. I've never not voted but have skipped issues on which I was uninformed or didn't like the options / candidates offered.

Been doing the absentee ballot thing for the last few years, so that allows time to mull shit over.

What I love about Carlin is, in a sense, he is right even when he is wrong. He made us think. That's always right on!

HesCalledDyer

I am undecided, because...

Free said:

He's called Dyer, ever think of voting for a write in candidate? That way you vote but you vote on your terms you can write in Mickey Mouse if you want but you still go out and exercise your right.

I have done that, in the last general election as a matter of fact. Write-ins don't quite work that way, though (at least in Maryland). We can't just write any name in, it has to be officially recognized. I forget what the criteria is; probably something with getting enough signatures for it to be allowed on the ballot. I've also voted 3rd party/independent in the past.

chadwick

Of course I vote, because...

it is my responsibility to have a say. it is not easy to vote when the candidates are out of their minds bug nuts full of shit flip floppers funded by mega bucks & bible thumpers with lying eyes & evil smiles. it sure as shit aint easy.

politicians are well renowned bullshit artists. it is quite sad

chadwick

Of course I vote, because...

so ya vote for the better of the mess. i do feel some are decent & mean well.

gimmesometruth27

Of course I vote, because...

i vote because if i don't i lose a little bit of the "freedom" that the candidates drone on and on about.

i think national elections should be national holidays with compulsory voting. only then will the results be a true representation of the people.

people will counter my opinion by stating that uninformed voters could sway the results based on the lies they hear in the media or at church or whatever, but i don't buy that.

the only way you make people feel empowered, like they have some say or something, is to make every single one of them vote.

brianlux

Of course I vote, because...

gimmesometruth27 said:

i vote because if i don't i lose a little bit of the "freedom" that the candidates drone on and on about.

i think national elections should be national holidays with compulsory voting. only then will the results be a true representation of the people.

people will counter my opinion by stating that uninformed voters could sway the results based on the lies they hear in the media or at church or whatever, but i don't buy that.

the only way you make people feel empowered, like they have some say or something, is to make every single one of them vote.

Interesting notion, gimme. Would you include some kind of compulsory voter education as well (an idea my wife has proposed a number of times)?

gimmesometruth27

Of course I vote, because...

brianlux said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

i vote because if i don't i lose a little bit of the "freedom" that the candidates drone on and on about.

i think national elections should be national holidays with compulsory voting. only then will the results be a true representation of the people.

people will counter my opinion by stating that uninformed voters could sway the results based on the lies they hear in the media or at church or whatever, but i don't buy that.

the only way you make people feel empowered, like they have some say or something, is to make every single one of them vote.

Interesting notion, gimme. Would you include some kind of compulsory voter education as well (an idea my wife has proposed a number of times)?

it is called 9th grade civics class. most people unfortunately never pay attention in that class.

gimmesometruth27

Of course I vote, because...

the funny thing is i have had hundreds of conversations on this forum the last 19 years and i still revert back to what i learned in civics class. there is a reason they make us take it.

hedonist

gimme...

Is feeling empowered the same as actually being empowered? Your comment made me think a bit hard on this concept.

And, would a forced vote be as valuable or even informed as one made by choice?

To quote the mighty Peart - if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

I will ALWAYS choose free will.

Go Beavers

Here's an interesting article on non-voters. While it's 5 years old, I'm sure the survey results are pretty valid. Basically non-voters tend to be less educated, less Republican, and have less income. It supports the notion that higher voter turn out helps Democrats.
pewresearch.org/2010/10/29/the-party-of-nonvoters/

gimmesometruth27

Of course I vote, because...

hedonist said:

gimme...

Is feeling empowered the same as actually being empowered? Your comment made me think a bit hard on this concept.

And, would a forced vote be as valuable or even informed as one made by choice?

To quote the mighty Peart - if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

I will ALWAYS choose free will.

it is more important to feel empowered. if you don't feel empowered, you have no hope. kind of a helpless, sad, and shitty way to go through life in my opinion.

forced vote is the only way to get the opinion of all of the people. the ballot should have an option for "none of the above" as well.

gimmesometruth27

Of course I vote, because...

Go Beavers said:

Here's an interesting article on non-voters. While it's 5 years old, I'm sure the survey results are pretty valid. Basically non-voters tend to be less educated, less Republican, and have less income. It supports the notion that higher voter turn out helps Democrats.
pewresearch.org/2010/10/29/the-party-of-nonvoters/

they always say high voter turnout helps dems.

why do you think the southern states are trying so desperately to impose voter id laws? to lessen voter turnout.

Go Beavers

gimmesometruth27 said:

Go Beavers said:

Here's an interesting article on non-voters. While it's 5 years old, I'm sure the survey results are pretty valid. Basically non-voters tend to be less educated, less Republican, and have less income. It supports the notion that higher voter turn out helps Democrats.
pewresearch.org/2010/10/29/the-party-of-nonvoters/

they always say high voter turnout helps dems.

why do you think the southern states are trying so desperately to impose voter id laws? to lessen voter turnout.

That's another reason I love my state of Oregon. We just got into place automatic voter registration when you get your drivers license. Went through with minimal fuss, too.

gimmesometruth27

Of course I vote, because...

Go Beavers said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

Go Beavers said:

Here's an interesting article on non-voters. While it's 5 years old, I'm sure the survey results are pretty valid. Basically non-voters tend to be less educated, less Republican, and have less income. It supports the notion that higher voter turn out helps Democrats.
pewresearch.org/2010/10/29/the-party-of-nonvoters/

they always say high voter turnout helps dems.

why do you think the southern states are trying so desperately to impose voter id laws? to lessen voter turnout.

That's another reason I love my state of Oregon. We just got into place automatic voter registration when you get your drivers license. Went through with minimal fuss, too.

that is pretty sweet. i think it should be easy to register voters.

i moved to the next town over several months ago. it was such a pain in the ass to have my new address put on my driver's license. they needed an unpaid bill or my passport. i just paid my personal property taxes from this address in december and they could not look me up because the computer system was allegedly down. likely story, assholes.

PJ_Soul

Of course I vote, because...

... it doesn't seem logical not to.

Free

Of course I vote, because...

Oregon is awesome.