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Horse Racing

brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,024
in A Moving Train
I went to the races for the first time in my life today. I was curious. I have to admit it was fun and exciting but something just did not feel right about it (and that should have been obvious, no doubt). When I got home, I did a little research and what I found was this very disturbing video. I will be writing a check to PETA tomorrow morning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TJVA2lwW4A
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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Comments

  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    Those poor horses. I go once a year because it can be fun, but I feel bad for those horses.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,024
    Free said:

    Those poor horses. I go once a year because it can be fun, but I feel bad for those horses.

    I'm super bummed about this because it was fun and exciting. We got up close to the staging area and could have reached out and touch these beautiful creature (we didn't) but I noticed the handlers averted our eyes.

    There is a lot of dirty business in this business. The first video in the link above is gruesome and highly disturbing. Now true, it points out the most egregious mistreatment of the animals, but a lot of that kind of thing probably goes unreported. I doubt the sport will ever be banned and even though I personally would support that kind of ban, at the very least I hope the worst aspects of these events are dealt with in a just manner.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    Nothing will be done too much prestige money and politics involved. The owners see the horses not as animals but as any other business asset or widget maker.
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    JC29856 said:

    Nothing will be done too much prestige money and politics involved. The owners see the horses not as animals but as any other business asset or widget maker.

    Agree.
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    imagine running so fast and long that your lungs bleed! then imagine that bleeding lungs is considered ordinary and normal.
    82% of 3 years old lungs bleed
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 Posts: 23,303
    my band played at fairmount racetrack a few years ago. they used to have bands on friday nights and they would play between races. the slogan was "every 19 minutes the place goes crazy." we played for an hour to warm up the crowd, and then we played in between races. in the first race a horse broke down and threw the jockey. the horse was euthanized on the track. it completely ruined the atmosphere. we felt awful for being a part of it knowing that a horse died and the jockey was seriously injured. We told our manager we never wanted to play there again. i have never been a fan of horse racing but i was open to providing entertainment. this experience cemented how i feel about it.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    Years ago we went to a greyhound race in Tijuana. The poor dogs were so fucked up on speed, they kept running around the track long after the race was over. I swore never again.

    Fuck that. I can find better ways to have fun.

    I just can't see reconciling the entertainment aspect with (if, what I've read is accurate) the darker side. Then again, we are creatures who tend to rationalize, so...
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    I was at a chariot race and they were starting the horses on the back stretch and they had a false start. While trying to get the horses back in line a horse freaked out and escaped through the area in the track fence that was left open when they drove the starter car. It got his by a semi on the nearby freeway.

    I think that was the last time I went to a horse race.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,024
    gimmesometruth27 said:

    my band played at fairmount racetrack a few years ago. they used to have bands on friday nights and they would play between races. the slogan was "every 19 minutes the place goes crazy." we played for an hour to warm up the crowd, and then we played in between races. in the first race a horse broke down and threw the jockey. the horse was euthanized on the track. it completely ruined the atmosphere. we felt awful for being a part of it knowing that a horse died and the jockey was seriously injured. We told our manager we never wanted to play there again. i have never been a fan of horse racing but i was open to providing entertainment. this experience cemented how i feel about it.

    I'm sorry you had to be there for that. Just looking at a few of the videos of what can happen to both horse and rider last night really threw me for a curve.
    JC29856 said:

    Nothing will be done too much prestige money and politics involved. The owners see the horses not as animals but as any other business asset or widget maker.

    Yes, and I read that these horses get bought and sold and moved around like pieces of furniture with little regard to their sensitivities and intelligence.

    The track we went to was well manicured and nice to look at but off in the distance the stable area looked like a dingy dirty ghetto. The workers all looked unhappy (and over-worked and poorly paid, I've read) and the owners in the winners circle looked like shady characters who were congratulating each other. Not one, not one single owner, went up to the winning horse after the race to give it a pat on the back. All grins and money in the bank.

    First and last time for me.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,024
    Jason P said:

    I was at a chariot race and they were starting the horses on the back stretch and they had a false start. While trying to get the horses back in line a horse freaked out and escaped through the area in the track fence that was left open when they drove the starter car. It got his by a semi on the nearby freeway.

    I think that was the last time I went to a horse race.

    Oh man, I can see why you would not return, Jason. Sorry you had to see that.
    hedonist said:

    Years ago we went to a greyhound race in Tijuana. The poor dogs were so fucked up on speed, they kept running around the track long after the race was over. I swore never again.

    Fuck that. I can find better ways to have fun.

    I just can't see reconciling the entertainment aspect with (if, what I've read is accurate) the darker side. Then again, we are creatures who tend to rationalize, so...

    Another sad story of animal abuse. So sad.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    The stables are another story...most "undocumented workers" get paid peanuts and actually live at the tracks they work on. The major tracks have shacks next to the stables for the trainers helpers and breezers. Like I said that's a whole story itself.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,024
    edited February 2016
    JC29856 said:

    The stables are another story...most "undocumented workers" get paid peanuts and actually live at the tracks they work on. The major tracks have shacks next to the stables for the trainers helpers and breezers. Like I said that's a whole story itself.

    That blows my mind. I could see the stables from up higher in the grandstands and I had no idea some of those accommodations house people. I thought it looked bad enough for horses. It's a situation I had never known about and it's disturbing to see how badly it is for both the horses and, like you say, for the trainer helpers.

    Sounds like you have some good knowledge about all this.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • AnnafalkAnnafalk Posts: 4,004
    One of my very best friends was a horse, I think humans has a responsibility towards all animals to treat them with respect.
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    Annafalk said:

    One of my very best friends was a horse, I think humans has a responsibility towards all animals to treat them with respect.

    I've never been to Sweden, hopefully I can get there some day.
  • AnnafalkAnnafalk Posts: 4,004
    JC29856 said:

    Annafalk said:

    One of my very best friends was a horse, I think humans has a responsibility towards all animals to treat them with respect.

    I've never been to Sweden, hopefully I can get there some day.
    I hope so too :)
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    I've never been to a horse race, BUT I had to drive around some Amish Buggies today and I sure feel bad for those horses!
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    Annafalk said:

    JC29856 said:

    Annafalk said:

    One of my very best friends was a horse, I think humans has a responsibility towards all animals to treat them with respect.

    I've never been to Sweden, hopefully I can get there some day.
    I hope so too :)
    We were all set to go one summer 2007 I think, my wife is friends with Forsberg's ex but then he dumped her so we bagged the trip. Prob would been awesome.
  • AnnafalkAnnafalk Posts: 4,004
    edited February 2016
    JC29856 said:

    Annafalk said:

    JC29856 said:

    Annafalk said:

    One of my very best friends was a horse, I think humans has a responsibility towards all animals to treat them with respect.

    I've never been to Sweden, hopefully I can get there some day.
    I hope so too :)
    We were all set to go one summer 2007 I think, my wife is friends with Forsberg's ex but then he dumped her so we bagged the trip. Prob would been awesome.
    Cool story thanks for sharing :)
    Post edited by Annafalk on
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    Annafalk said:

    JC29856 said:

    Annafalk said:

    JC29856 said:

    Annafalk said:

    One of my very best friends was a horse, I think humans has a responsibility towards all animals to treat them with respect.

    I've never been to Sweden, hopefully I can get there some day.
    I hope so too :)
    We were all set to go one summer 2007 I think, my wife is friends with Forsberg's ex but then he dumped her so we bagged the trip. Prob would been awesome.
    Cool story thanks for sharing :)
    Cool story bro, tell it again?
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,024
    Long live The Horse and love to the horses. Horse racing must end!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,950
    edited February 2016
    I am not a fan at all. I agree, it IS fun to go. I've been. But yeah, just the whole idea of big crowds of people getting together and using animals for entertainment like that bothers me a lot, and I don't go to the races, and I certainly won't go to rodeos, and even trail riding places bother me.... For some reason, I don't feel as strongly about equestrian .... never even thought about it until now actually. I used to do equestrian too, in fact. The horses were all just so well taken care of, and it was more about the relationship between the horse and its rider than it was about other people who happened to be observing...... I guess I'm a hypocrite if I am more accepting of equestrian. Oh well.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,024
    PJ_Soul said:

    I am not a fan at all. I agree, it IS fun to go. I've been. But yeah, just the whole idea of big crowds of people getting together and using animals for entertainment like that bothers me a lot, and I don't go to the races, and I certainly won't go to rodeos, and even trail riding places bother me.... For some reason, I don't feel as strongly about equestrian .... never even thought about it until now actually. I used to do equestrian too, in fact. The horses were all just so well taken care of, and it was more about the relationship between the horse and its rider than it was about other people who happened to be observing...... I guess I'm a hypocrite if I am more accepting of equestrian. Oh well.

    What I know and have seen and what little riding I've done (maybe four times), equestrian (I assume you mean riding) seems like a whole other world from racing and other aggressive uses of horses. I've known and know people with horses and they seem to be very conscientious of the horses' well being and the horses I've met all seemed content and healthy. Never have had the space for one myself.

    I don't know much about heavy horses and draft horse like Clydesdales and Percherons and what the affect of the work is on them but it wouldn't surprise me to hear that many are overworked. I also understand horse are social creatures and like to be in groups of their own kind as opposed to isolation.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • AnnafalkAnnafalk Posts: 4,004
    JC29856 said:

    Annafalk said:

    JC29856 said:

    Annafalk said:

    JC29856 said:

    Annafalk said:

    One of my very best friends was a horse, I think humans has a responsibility towards all animals to treat them with respect.

    I've never been to Sweden, hopefully I can get there some day.
    I hope so too :)
    We were all set to go one summer 2007 I think, my wife is friends with Forsberg's ex but then he dumped her so we bagged the trip. Prob would been awesome.
    Cool story thanks for sharing :)
    Cool story bro, tell it again?
    I'm not sure of what you mean now. I just thought it was cool that you had connections with Peter Forsberg, he seems like a nice guy. Sometimes I find it difficult to hit the right words or expressions, I'm sorry.
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    Annafalk said:

    JC29856 said:

    Annafalk said:

    JC29856 said:

    Annafalk said:

    JC29856 said:

    Annafalk said:

    One of my very best friends was a horse, I think humans has a responsibility towards all animals to treat them with respect.

    I've never been to Sweden, hopefully I can get there some day.
    I hope so too :)
    We were all set to go one summer 2007 I think, my wife is friends with Forsberg's ex but then he dumped her so we bagged the trip. Prob would been awesome.
    Cool story thanks for sharing :)
    Cool story bro, tell it again?
    I'm not sure of what you mean now. I just thought it was cool that you had connections with Peter Forsberg, he seems like a nice guy. Sometimes I find it difficult to hit the right words or expressions, I'm sorry.
    No worries...sorry
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,024
    The horses, friends, the horses!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Posts: 20,272
    http://dvd.netflix.com/Movie/Jockey/70022299

    if you've never seen this documentary about jockeys it's really good
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    Gern Blansten said:

    http://dvd.netflix.com/Movie/Jockey/70022299

    if you've never seen this documentary about jockeys it's really good

    Don't think I seen that...I seen a few episodes on jockeys few years ago maybe HBO.

    Years ago a bunch of us went to dinner...Mexican restaurant. One guy was a pretty good jockey not on national scale but top 3 in New England area. Anyway during dinner jockey excuses himself to the men's room then comes back to table. I don't think anything of it. My buddy paid for the dinner, when we got in the car to leave he says was that good, I said yeah, he said see jockey so and so? His dinner got flushed. I'm like what? He said he went to throw it up, didn't you notice his perfect teeth, why do you think he got up right after eating and came back chewing gum?
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,950
    edited February 2016
    brianlux said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    I am not a fan at all. I agree, it IS fun to go. I've been. But yeah, just the whole idea of big crowds of people getting together and using animals for entertainment like that bothers me a lot, and I don't go to the races, and I certainly won't go to rodeos, and even trail riding places bother me.... For some reason, I don't feel as strongly about equestrian .... never even thought about it until now actually. I used to do equestrian too, in fact. The horses were all just so well taken care of, and it was more about the relationship between the horse and its rider than it was about other people who happened to be observing...... I guess I'm a hypocrite if I am more accepting of equestrian. Oh well.

    What I know and have seen and what little riding I've done (maybe four times), equestrian (I assume you mean riding) seems like a whole other world from racing and other aggressive uses of horses. I've known and know people with horses and they seem to be very conscientious of the horses' well being and the horses I've met all seemed content and healthy. Never have had the space for one myself.

    I don't know much about heavy horses and draft horse like Clydesdales and Percherons and what the affect of the work is on them but it wouldn't surprise me to hear that many are overworked. I also understand horse are social creatures and like to be in groups of their own kind as opposed to isolation.
    Yeah, riding, and specifically I'm thinking about show jumping and steeplechase. The stuff you get in the Olympics.
    Yeah, good point about the isolation thing. Horses are indeed social, and many people who love horses and just have one to ride and keep them on their own property ONLY have the one. That must be very lonely for the horse.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,840
    Read this

    http://english138.web.unc.edu/files/2011/08/The-Kentucky-Derby-is-Decadent-and-Depraved.pdf
  • your move nowyour move now Posts: 1,165
    Probably a little brave, or a lot stupid, to get myself involved in this and there's every chance I'll end up getting upset and abandoning the conversation but I am and have been for my adult life, employed in the racing industry. I love horses and find the anti racing rhetoric and propaganda highly offensive. Rather than rearticulate my views this is a Facebook post of mine from November (some of it is very timing and Australian specific so please excuse that):

    To the people spreading anti-horseracing propaganda:
    I have tried so hard not to engage this year, but it's hard, especially when I see it coming from people I respect (or thought I respected), and I need to clear a few things up.

    1. It is personal. You can tell me it's not or that you don't mean me, but when you say my industry (my entire life since I left high school and a good portion of my life prior to that) is animal cruelty it is personal and you are accusing me of animal cruelty, that's a pretty big and offensive accusation.
    2. The numbers given by CPR, Animals Australia and whoever else are false, it takes minimal research to realise that and there are studies (from impartial sources such as the Australian Veterinary Journal) to prove that. You also don't have to be a genius to realise that if more thoroughbreds were going to the knackery each year than were being born (the number reported by CPR) there wouldn't be any racing at all.
    3. The argument that racing kills? We're talking about approximately a 0.005% death rate. In all my years around racehorses I have never been involved with one that died as a result of an injury sustained during a race or during training, I have been involved with many who have died: from paddock injuries, colic, chronic laminitis and other causes unrelated to racing. If I thought it was a danger to race my horses I would never do it. I challenge anyone who has seen me with my horses to so much as suggest I would willingly put them at risk - I love my horses.
    4. Ten years ago we didn't have this rubbish, Michelle Payne would have been hailed as an inspirational woman succeeding in a still male dominated and often chauvinistic industry; Stevie Payne would have been held up as a symbol of the capabilities of those born with downs syndrome and Darren Weir would have been celebrated for his support of them both, instead half of Australia seems to be attacking all three. This should be the greatest time of their lives/careers and if you're out on social media tearing them down you should be ashamed.

    There are bad apples in racing, but they are in the minority, and sadly such people exist in every facet of society. Do your research or shut up, because these constant accusations against me and hundreds of good people that I know or have worked with are personal and they're falsehoods.
    I don't mean to offend anyone, a lot of what I say should be taken with a grain of salt... that said for most of you I'm a stranger on a computer on the other side of the world, don't give me that sort of power!
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