"The Crash of 2016", An emerging reality or an overblown scenario?

brianlux

I must confess to not having yet read the book that prompted me to ask what you all think about this subject but I have talked to others about it and read various accounts (most of which so far have not impressed me much) that predict something similar: Is America headed for a major economic crash in the near future? Personally, I'm more concerned about a world-wide environmental crash but nevertheless I thought the American economic crash scenario would be an interesting subject to visit/revisit. I think this subject also ties in to the upcoming POTUS election of 2016 but maybe we should save that for elsewhere?

Here's the synopsis of the book I found on Goodreads.com

The Crash of 2016: The Plot to Destroy America--and What We Can Do to Stop It, by Thom Hartmann
The United States is in the midst of an economic implosion that could make the Great Depression look like child's play. In THE CRASH OF 2016, Thom Hartmann argues that the facade of our once-great United States will soon disintegrate to reveal the rotting core where corporate and billionaire power and greed have replaced democratic infrastructure and governance. Our once-enlightened political and economic systems have been manipulated to ensure the success of only a fraction of the population at the expense of the rest of us.

The result is a "for the rich, by the rich" scheme leading to policies that only benefit the highest bidders. Hartmann outlines the destructive forces-planted by Lewis Powell in 1971 and come to fruition with the "Reagan Revolution"-that have looted our nation over the past decade, and how their actions fit into a cycle of American history that lets such forces rise to power every four generations.

However, a backlash is now palpable against the "economic royalists"-a term coined by FDR to describe those hoarding power and wealth-including the banksters, oligarchs, and politicians who have plunged our nation into economic chaos and social instability.

Although we are in the midst of what could become the most catastrophic economic crash in American History, a way forward is emerging, just as it did in the previous great crashes of the 1760s, 1856, and 1929. The choices we make now will redefine American culture. Before us stands a genuine opportunity to embrace the moral motive over the profit motive-and to rebuild the American economic model that once yielded great success.

Thoroughly researched and passionately argued, THE CRASH OF 2016 is not just a roadmap to redemption in post-Crash America, but a critical wake-up call, challenging us to act. Only if the right reforms are enacted and the moral choices are made, can we avert disaster and make our nation whole again.

Full synopsis here:
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17333356-the-crash-of-2016

gimmesometruth27

hartmann also advertises (paid by the way) that we should all buy gold as a hedge against the impending crash.

i like thom. he is a smart guy. but the minute he starts doing commercials for gold (the same company glenn beck used to do), he loses me.

brianlux

gimmesometruth27 said:

hartmann also advertises (paid by the way) that we should all buy gold as a hedge against the impending crash.

i like thom. he is a smart guy. but the minute he starts doing commercials for gold (the same company glenn beck used to do), he loses me.

I've heard that about gold many times as well but never acted on it. I figure if things really go to hell a pile of gold will not be nearly as important as friendly relations with people in my neighborhood. I know for a fact a bunch of them are armed to the teeth. I really hope things don't get as effed up as some predict they will. I'm not into gun fighting!

gimmesometruth27

brianlux said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

hartmann also advertises (paid by the way) that we should all buy gold as a hedge against the impending crash.

i like thom. he is a smart guy. but the minute he starts doing commercials for gold (the same company glenn beck used to do), he loses me.

I've heard that about gold many times as well but never acted on it. I figure if things really go to hell a pile of gold will not be nearly as important as friendly relations with people in my neighborhood. I know for a fact a bunch of them are armed to the teeth. I really hope things don't get as effed up as some predict they will. I'm not into gun fighting!

well if you get some gold, you are gonna need to get you a gun for when your neighbors try to come on to your property and jack your gold.

see how it all goes together?

rgambs

You can't eat gold.

ldent42

If there's a crash this year similar to what happened in 2008/2009 I'm going to be in a lot of trouble so I would kindly request that you guys don't let that happen

kthnx

brianlux

ldent42 said:

If there's a crash this year similar to what happened in 2008/2009 I'm going to be in a lot of trouble so I would kindly request that you guys don't let that happen

kthnx

I certainly don't know enough about economics to have any idea how close or not to economic downturn or collapse we are. Does anybody really know? I've been hearing about this sort of thing for a while but we just keep slogging along. Isn't this sort of thing more likely to evolve slowly?

In any case, we won't let you down Ident. I'll put in a good word with Barry next time we talk!

Gern Blansten

They did this crap in 2008/2009 to scare people into buying gold and driving up prices. Then they bail on gold and make a shit ton of money and leave all the peons holding the shitbag.

rssesq

I dropped 10 g's on gold when it went to $1020 2 months ago. If it drops below $1,200 today, I'm grabbing 5 more ounces before biz close.

ldent42

So what you're saying is, now's a good time to sell my jewellery? Too bad that pawn shop closed

rssesq

in nyc the pawn shop closed? u must be joking. lmao

brianlux

I don't look at a situation like a potential economic crisis as either an opportunity to cash in or a great danger of my personal finances crashing. I'm not interested in capitalizing at the expense of others catastrophic losses and because I'm good at managing my less than average income and have kept myself out of debt, I don't foresee a personal catastrophic financial loss. What I do see is an economy built on resource exploitation, the production of shoddy goods with a short service life and the wide distribution of massive amounts of non-essential or even near-useless goods. This can only lead to major widespread economic and environmental break downs. Gold, silver and paper money will have little real value if things really fly to pieces. Durable goods, basic skills, seeds, viable soil and close trustworthy friendships will prove far more valuable.

rgambs

brianlux said:

I don't look at a situation like a potential economic crisis as either an opportunity to cash in or a great danger of my personal finances crashing. I'm not interested in capitalizing at the expense of others catastrophic losses and because I'm good at managing my less than average income and have kept myself out of debt, I don't foresee a personal catastrophic financial loss. What I do see is an economy built on resource exploitation, the production of shoddy goods with a short service life and the wide distribution of massive amounts of non-essential or even near-useless goods. This can only lead to major widespread economic and environmental break downs. Gold, silver and paper money will have little real value if things really fly to pieces. Durable goods, basic skills, seeds, viable soil and close trustworthy friendships will prove far more valuable.

This post reminds me of this song.

https://youtu.be/mWLnVVe7aM0

Our first world problems are so trivial, people worried about losing what they don't need in a crash that doesn't mean anything to people who really know hard times.

Brian you and I, "maybe we were born to endure when the storm comes".

Your last sentence is what wisdom looks like, reminds me of the genius of Wendell Berry, (didn't you meet him?) he must have left some pixie dust in you.

PJPOWER

brianlux said:

I don't look at a situation like a potential economic crisis as either an opportunity to cash in or a great danger of my personal finances crashing. I'm not interested in capitalizing at the expense of others catastrophic losses and because I'm good at managing my less than average income and have kept myself out of debt, I don't foresee a personal catastrophic financial loss. What I do see is an economy built on resource exploitation, the production of shoddy goods with a short service life and the wide distribution of massive amounts of non-essential or even near-useless goods. This can only lead to major widespread economic and environmental break downs. Gold, silver and paper money will have little real value if things really fly to pieces. Durable goods, basic skills, seeds, viable soil and close trustworthy friendships will prove far more valuable.

Great post! People get too caught up in the materialistic world to understand what values and skills should really be passed down to other generations. What worries me is that there are generations of people without some of the most basic skills and real friendships. Most people can survive without 90% of the spoils that modern societies embellish in. But if you are in major debt and live beyond your means, have few friendships (outside of your XBOX Live account), and no basic survival skills...it may be a little more difficult to trudge through difficult times. I was fortunate enough to know and learn from a few survivors of the dust bowl and Great Depression (grandfathers in the Texas Panhandle) and heard how they really endured and survived those situations.
I've never understood the philosophy of gold/silver backup plans. If shit hits the fan, those things will just weigh you down, ha.

rgambs

PJPOWER said:

brianlux said:

I don't look at a situation like a potential economic crisis as either an opportunity to cash in or a great danger of my personal finances crashing. I'm not interested in capitalizing at the expense of others catastrophic losses and because I'm good at managing my less than average income and have kept myself out of debt, I don't foresee a personal catastrophic financial loss. What I do see is an economy built on resource exploitation, the production of shoddy goods with a short service life and the wide distribution of massive amounts of non-essential or even near-useless goods. This can only lead to major widespread economic and environmental break downs. Gold, silver and paper money will have little real value if things really fly to pieces. Durable goods, basic skills, seeds, viable soil and close trustworthy friendships will prove far more valuable.

Great post! People get too caught up in the materialistic world to understand what values and skills should really be passed down to other generations. What worries me is that there are generations of people without some of the most basic skills and real friendships. Most people can survive without 90% of the spoils that modern societies embellish in. But if you are in major debt and live beyond your means, have few friendships (outside of your XBOX Live account), and no basic survival skills...it may be a little more difficult to trudge through difficult situations. I've never understood the philosophy of gold/silver backup plans. If shit hits the fan, those things will just weigh you down, ha.

Not to mention, the government will confiscate your gold like they did during the Great Depression.

rssesq

not my gold, I keep it hid like Kyle

rgambs

rssesq said:

not my gold, I keep it hid like Kyle

You actually physically possess the gold? Most don't.

brianlux

rgambs said:

brianlux said:

I don't look at a situation like a potential economic crisis as either an opportunity to cash in or a great danger of my personal finances crashing. I'm not interested in capitalizing at the expense of others catastrophic losses and because I'm good at managing my less than average income and have kept myself out of debt, I don't foresee a personal catastrophic financial loss. What I do see is an economy built on resource exploitation, the production of shoddy goods with a short service life and the wide distribution of massive amounts of non-essential or even near-useless goods. This can only lead to major widespread economic and environmental break downs. Gold, silver and paper money will have little real value if things really fly to pieces. Durable goods, basic skills, seeds, viable soil and close trustworthy friendships will prove far more valuable.

This post reminds me of this song.

https://youtu.be/mWLnVVe7aM0

Our first world problems are so trivial, people worried about losing what they don't need in a crash that doesn't mean anything to people who really know hard times.

Brian you and I, "maybe we were born to endure when the storm comes".

Your last sentence is what wisdom looks like, reminds me of the genius of Wendell Berry, (didn't you meet him?) he must have left some pixie dust in you.

What a great song! I hadn't heard this before and if fact somehow I've missed Citzen Cope altogether, but I'll check out more of his stuff. Thanks Gambs!

Yeah, I met Wendell Berry briefly at a reading he gave in Sacramento. He is one of my biggest heroes. He definitely has left his stamp on me and though I can hardly claim to match his humility, wisdom or intelligence, he has long been an inspiration for me to at least try to do a little better. When I wrote that post last night I was also thinking about Richard Heinberg who is another one of our wise elders. He has written some marvelous books and is the Senior Fellow of the Post Carbon Institute.

rgambs

brianlux said:

rgambs said:

brianlux said:

I don't look at a situation like a potential economic crisis as either an opportunity to cash in or a great danger of my personal finances crashing. I'm not interested in capitalizing at the expense of others catastrophic losses and because I'm good at managing my less than average income and have kept myself out of debt, I don't foresee a personal catastrophic financial loss. What I do see is an economy built on resource exploitation, the production of shoddy goods with a short service life and the wide distribution of massive amounts of non-essential or even near-useless goods. This can only lead to major widespread economic and environmental break downs. Gold, silver and paper money will have little real value if things really fly to pieces. Durable goods, basic skills, seeds, viable soil and close trustworthy friendships will prove far more valuable.

This post reminds me of this song.

https://youtu.be/mWLnVVe7aM0

Our first world problems are so trivial, people worried about losing what they don't need in a crash that doesn't mean anything to people who really know hard times.

Brian you and I, "maybe we were born to endure when the storm comes".

Your last sentence is what wisdom looks like, reminds me of the genius of Wendell Berry, (didn't you meet him?) he must have left some pixie dust in you.

What a great song! I hadn't heard this before and if fact somehow I've missed Citzen Cope altogether, but I'll check out more of his stuff. Thanks Gambs!

Yeah, I met Wendell Berry briefly at a reading he gave in Sacramento. He is one of my biggest heroes. He definitely has left his stamp on me and though I can hardly claim to match his humility, wisdom or intelligence, he has long been an inspiration for me to at least try to do a little better. When I wrote that post last night I was also thinking about Richard Heinberg who is another one of our wise elders. He has written some marvelous books and is the Senior Fellow of the Post Carbon Institute.

The Rainwater LP has that one and Keep Asking, my favorites. Good campfire tunes, simple rhythm and simple chords, deep lyrics.

rgambs

brianlux said:

rgambs said:

brianlux said:

I don't look at a situation like a potential economic crisis as either an opportunity to cash in or a great danger of my personal finances crashing. I'm not interested in capitalizing at the expense of others catastrophic losses and because I'm good at managing my less than average income and have kept myself out of debt, I don't foresee a personal catastrophic financial loss. What I do see is an economy built on resource exploitation, the production of shoddy goods with a short service life and the wide distribution of massive amounts of non-essential or even near-useless goods. This can only lead to major widespread economic and environmental break downs. Gold, silver and paper money will have little real value if things really fly to pieces. Durable goods, basic skills, seeds, viable soil and close trustworthy friendships will prove far more valuable.

This post reminds me of this song.

https://youtu.be/mWLnVVe7aM0

Our first world problems are so trivial, people worried about losing what they don't need in a crash that doesn't mean anything to people who really know hard times.

Brian you and I, "maybe we were born to endure when the storm comes".

Your last sentence is what wisdom looks like, reminds me of the genius of Wendell Berry, (didn't you meet him?) he must have left some pixie dust in you.

What a great song! I hadn't heard this before and if fact somehow I've missed Citzen Cope altogether, but I'll check out more of his stuff. Thanks Gambs!

Yeah, I met Wendell Berry briefly at a reading he gave in Sacramento. He is one of my biggest heroes. He definitely has left his stamp on me and though I can hardly claim to match his humility, wisdom or intelligence, he has long been an inspiration for me to at least try to do a little better. When I wrote that post last night I was also thinking about Richard Heinberg who is another one of our wise elders. He has written some marvelous books and is the Senior Fellow of the Post Carbon Institute.

The Rainwater LP has that one and Keep Asking, my favorites. Good campfire tunes, simple rhythm and simple chords, deep lyrics.

rssesq

rgambs said:

rssesq said:

not my gold, I keep it hid like Kyle

You actually physically possess the gold? Most don't.

Of course I do. I go right over to the diamond district and buy it (Libertads, US mont, Perth Mint , Assay sealed) and avoid paypal and ebay fees and never pay more than $22 over spot (market) per ounce.