Where are you on the spectrum of hope?

Having been involved in other conversations elsewhere related to this topic (and similar conversations here in the past), I'm curious as to how you good folks currently see yourselves on the spectrum of hope for this world, for your community, for your country, for civilization as a whole and for life as a whole (remembering we are but one species of many on this earth).

For my community, my hope is fair but not great as it continues to grow too fast for it's own good. For my country, my hope is weakening fast but not dead as I see young people with bright ideas and smarts who refuse to be sucked in and brought down by ignorance, idiocy, racism and hatred. For the world, my hope is most thin but I still refuse to become a full-fledged curmudgeon. I believe in luck more than miracles but I also often marvel at how we humans sometimes pull off the seemingly impossible. For other life, I feel badly for the other species for whom survival is at the mercy of our whims but I do find hope in the continued existence a few good earth warrior organizations.

What about you?
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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Comments

  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    Stop making me think so much today!

    Having mentioned ripple-effects a few times before, it applies here too.

    Personal level, usually high-apple-pie-in-the-sky hopes. Actually, also on that me and mine level - how we treat each other and strangers. How we treat ourselves and our cats and neighbors and immediate environment. I wish that is / might be enough to spiral out but if not, it's still enough for and within our little world. Could go in the positive or not, maybe just meander.

    Still tried, goddammit!

    On the further level, as shit actually does spiral out, in the end-game? Probably quite a way off timewise, but not too hopeful about when it goes down.
  • jeffbrjeffbr Posts: 7,177
    Interesting topic, Brian! I feel much the same as you. I have some hope for my community, but can see it changing for the worse. I have little hope for my country - politics, polarization, and $$$ have replaced common sense and decency. I hope for my kids' sake and their future kids that something will turn it around, but I don't see any turnaround happening in my lifetime, and whatever happens with the 2016 elections, we'll be worse off. I also have even less hope for the world, and am starting to care less and less about what happens far away from me, since I can't really even affect change locally, and have no energy to fight the bigger fight. I believe I have changed from an eternal optimist to that curmudgeon you're trying to avoid becoming. I just don't see the hope in humanity some of you do. For the most part people are idiots (worldwide, not country specific), and when the idiots band together bad shit happens. I envy those who do still have hope, and never would have believed that I'd throw in the towel. At this point I'm happy to keep voting (even knowing that it will make not one goddamned bit of difference), and voicing my opinion (whether anyone hears it), but beyond that I've got nothing to offer. I used to spend significant time in the community working to make it better, but money speaks louder than actions these days, so I can't compete. Damn, this sounds so defeatist and negative. In general I am a happy person, but it is my family and friends that bring me joy, not the world in which we live. I've shortened my focus to things I can change, and don't devote much emotional energy to the rest. This is a relatively new phenomenon for me, but I guess it is how I can be happy, yet have such a broadly negative outlook. I don't know if it coincided with turning 50 a few years ago, but I'll leave it to the younger, smarter people to figure out how to get us out of this mess, and apologize to them for my contributions to the mess.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    hedonist said:

    Stop making me think so much today!

    Having mentioned ripple-effects a few times before, it applies here too.

    Personal level, usually high-apple-pie-in-the-sky hopes. Actually, also on that me and mine level - how we treat each other and strangers. How we treat ourselves and our cats and neighbors and immediate environment. I wish that is / might be enough to spiral out but if not, it's still enough for and within our little world. Could go in the positive or not, maybe just meander.

    Still tried, goddammit!

    On the further level, as shit actually does spiral out, in the end-game? Probably quite a way off timewise, but not too hopeful about when it goes down.

    :lol: Happy Monday after Christmas, Hedo!

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    jeffbr said:

    Interesting topic, Brian! I feel much the same as you. I have some hope for my community, but can see it changing for the worse. I have little hope for my country - politics, polarization, and $$$ have replaced common sense and decency. I hope for my kids' sake and their future kids that something will turn it around, but I don't see any turnaround happening in my lifetime, and whatever happens with the 2016 elections, we'll be worse off. I also have even less hope for the world, and am starting to care less and less about what happens far away from me, since I can't really even affect change locally, and have no energy to fight the bigger fight. I believe I have changed from an eternal optimist to that curmudgeon you're trying to avoid becoming. I just don't see the hope in humanity some of you do. For the most part people are idiots (worldwide, not country specific), and when the idiots band together bad shit happens. I envy those who do still have hope, and never would have believed that I'd throw in the towel. At this point I'm happy to keep voting (even knowing that it will make not one goddamned bit of difference), and voicing my opinion (whether anyone hears it), but beyond that I've got nothing to offer. I used to spend significant time in the community working to make it better, but money speaks louder than actions these days, so I can't compete. Damn, this sounds so defeatist and negative. In general I am a happy person, but it is my family and friends that bring me joy, not the world in which we live. I've shortened my focus to things I can change, and don't devote much emotional energy to the rest. This is a relatively new phenomenon for me, but I guess it is how I can be happy, yet have such a broadly negative outlook. I don't know if it coincided with turning 50 a few years ago, but I'll leave it to the younger, smarter people to figure out how to get us out of this mess, and apologize to them for my contributions to the mess.

    Well, if it helps any Jeff, your devotion to what is close to you- community, family, friends- sounds like hope.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • JWPearlJWPearl Posts: 19,893
    jeffbr said:

    Interesting topic, Brian! I feel much the same as you. I have some hope for my community, but can see it changing for the worse. I have little hope for my country - politics, polarization, and $$$ have replaced common sense and decency. I hope for my kids' sake and their future kids that something will turn it around, but I don't see any turnaround happening in my lifetime, and whatever happens with the 2016 elections, we'll be worse off. I also have even less hope for the world, and am starting to care less and less about what happens far away from me, since I can't really even affect change locally, and have no energy to fight the bigger fight. I believe I have changed from an eternal optimist to that curmudgeon you're trying to avoid becoming. I just don't see the hope in humanity some of you do. For the most part people are idiots (worldwide, not country specific), and when the idiots band together bad shit happens. I envy those who do still have hope, and never would have believed that I'd throw in the towel. At this point I'm happy to keep voting (even knowing that it will make not one goddamned bit of difference), and voicing my opinion (whether anyone hears it), but beyond that I've got nothing to offer. I used to spend significant time in the community working to make it better, but money speaks louder than actions these days, so I can't compete. Damn, this sounds so defeatist and negative. In general I am a happy person, but it is my family and friends that bring me joy, not the world in which we live. I've shortened my focus to things I can change, and don't devote much emotional energy to the rest. This is a relatively new phenomenon for me, but I guess it is how I can be happy, yet have such a broadly negative outlook. I don't know if it coincided with turning 50 a few years ago, but I'll leave it to the younger, smarter people to figure out how to get us out of this mess, and apologize to them for my contributions to the mess.

    this is beautifully written jeff..
    and i say if you are contributing good to your family and anyone surrounding you
    and doing whats in your power to help even if it may seem helpless in the world we live in
    it all really counts and is noted.. dont forget its the condition of your heart your intention is good
    and you are not fighting against those doing the same whether in a small or larger scale
    it doesnt matter whether you cant do what you would like to do and someone else could.. it doesnt make them greater but your equal..its quality not quantity..
    yes things look hopeless but in honestly its further from the truth with the what the future prospects are...
    you should talk to my mum she would make you feel better and open new doors...

  • SmellymanSmellyman Posts: 4,524
    image
    Not because of the evil fears fox news has their base believe.

    There are too many damn people on this planet and growing. It isn't sustainable
  • There is a spectrum of hope?
    No one informed me.
    And the young, they can lose hope cause they can't see beyond today,...
    The wisdom that the old can't give away.
    I have a front row seat with image

  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524

    There is a spectrum of hope?
    No one informed me.
    And the young, they can lose hope cause they can't see beyond today,...
    The wisdom that the old can't give away.
    I have a front row seat with image

    I thought it was a given, regardless of age.

    Or maybe it does fluctuate with and over time.

    Or maybe it's me (going with all three options).

    Anyway, on the popcorn front, I'm hoping our stash of the white cheddar variety is still around and not stale.
  • brianlux said:

    jeffbr said:

    Interesting topic, Brian! I feel much the same as you. I have some hope for my community, but can see it changing for the worse. I have little hope for my country - politics, polarization, and $$$ have replaced common sense and decency. I hope for my kids' sake and their future kids that something will turn it around, but I don't see any turnaround happening in my lifetime, and whatever happens with the 2016 elections, we'll be worse off. I also have even less hope for the world, and am starting to care less and less about what happens far away from me, since I can't really even affect change locally, and have no energy to fight the bigger fight. I believe I have changed from an eternal optimist to that curmudgeon you're trying to avoid becoming. I just don't see the hope in humanity some of you do. For the most part people are idiots (worldwide, not country specific), and when the idiots band together bad shit happens. I envy those who do still have hope, and never would have believed that I'd throw in the towel. At this point I'm happy to keep voting (even knowing that it will make not one goddamned bit of difference), and voicing my opinion (whether anyone hears it), but beyond that I've got nothing to offer. I used to spend significant time in the community working to make it better, but money speaks louder than actions these days, so I can't compete. Damn, this sounds so defeatist and negative. In general I am a happy person, but it is my family and friends that bring me joy, not the world in which we live. I've shortened my focus to things I can change, and don't devote much emotional energy to the rest. This is a relatively new phenomenon for me, but I guess it is how I can be happy, yet have such a broadly negative outlook. I don't know if it coincided with turning 50 a few years ago, but I'll leave it to the younger, smarter people to figure out how to get us out of this mess, and apologize to them for my contributions to the mess.

    Well, if it helps any Jeff, your devotion to what is close to you- community, family, friends- sounds like hope.
    Once you get older your F&F are all you'll ever have so teach them what you can.
  • eddieceddiec Posts: 3,881
    I think in the current state of the human mindset we are doomed. I look at my own country, arguably the leader in the world, and I see such a large portion of its citizens who lack empathy for other human beings. There is way too much selfishness for any worldly deeds to be accomplished. On a whole, people are not ready to give up any comforts even if it would make the world a better place.

    But...I believe there is hope in the future but only after we hit absolute rock bottom. Like a bad alcoholic it is only when we have gone as low as humanly possible that we may see the need to change the complete outlook on our existence. What is our rock bottom? I'm not sure but it would definitely be a wide scale disaster that would eradicate a good 80% of the population. Climate change and nuclear war are the first scenarios that come to mind.
  • SD48277SD48277 Posts: 12,243
    I always have hope. Am I discouraged? Sure, at times, but always have hope.
    ELITIST FUK
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038

    brianlux said:

    jeffbr said:

    Interesting topic, Brian! I feel much the same as you. I have some hope for my community, but can see it changing for the worse. I have little hope for my country - politics, polarization, and $$$ have replaced common sense and decency. I hope for my kids' sake and their future kids that something will turn it around, but I don't see any turnaround happening in my lifetime, and whatever happens with the 2016 elections, we'll be worse off. I also have even less hope for the world, and am starting to care less and less about what happens far away from me, since I can't really even affect change locally, and have no energy to fight the bigger fight. I believe I have changed from an eternal optimist to that curmudgeon you're trying to avoid becoming. I just don't see the hope in humanity some of you do. For the most part people are idiots (worldwide, not country specific), and when the idiots band together bad shit happens. I envy those who do still have hope, and never would have believed that I'd throw in the towel. At this point I'm happy to keep voting (even knowing that it will make not one goddamned bit of difference), and voicing my opinion (whether anyone hears it), but beyond that I've got nothing to offer. I used to spend significant time in the community working to make it better, but money speaks louder than actions these days, so I can't compete. Damn, this sounds so defeatist and negative. In general I am a happy person, but it is my family and friends that bring me joy, not the world in which we live. I've shortened my focus to things I can change, and don't devote much emotional energy to the rest. This is a relatively new phenomenon for me, but I guess it is how I can be happy, yet have such a broadly negative outlook. I don't know if it coincided with turning 50 a few years ago, but I'll leave it to the younger, smarter people to figure out how to get us out of this mess, and apologize to them for my contributions to the mess.

    Well, if it helps any Jeff, your devotion to what is close to you- community, family, friends- sounds like hope.
    Once you get older your F&F are all you'll ever have so teach them what you can.
    Being already close to what some may describe as old, I find I know less than ever. I only knew all there is to know when I was an infant. Now it's the young who teach me what I need to know.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • community: not that good. the aboriginals in my city are still looked upon as dirt, and there aren't enough programs/initiatives to help them.
    country: better now that we got rid of Harper
    civilization: almost zero. I think the ratio of people who give a shit to those who don't is getting smaller, but not fast enough. those that care are not the ones in power.
    life: fair. I think once we are gone, the planet will once again thrive and be green and blue again.
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • ldent42ldent42 Posts: 7,859
    I vote curmudgeon
    NYC 06/24/08-Auckland 11/27/09-Chch 11/29/09-Newark 05/18/10-Atlanta 09/22/12-Chicago 07/19/13-Brooklyn 10/18/13 & 10/19/13-Hartford 10/25/13-Baltimore 10/27/13-Auckland 1/17/14-GC 1/19/14-Melbourne 1/24/14-Sydney 1/26/14-Amsterdam 6/16/14 & 6/17/14-Milan 6/20/14-Berlin 6/26/14-Leeds 7/8/14-Milton Keynes 7/11/14-St. Louis 10/3/14-NYC 9/26/15
    LIVEFOOTSTEPS.ORG/USER/?USR=435
  • ldent42ldent42 Posts: 7,859
    Smellyman said:

    image
    Not because of the evil fears fox news has their base believe.

    There are too many damn people on this planet and growing. It isn't sustainable

    image
    NYC 06/24/08-Auckland 11/27/09-Chch 11/29/09-Newark 05/18/10-Atlanta 09/22/12-Chicago 07/19/13-Brooklyn 10/18/13 & 10/19/13-Hartford 10/25/13-Baltimore 10/27/13-Auckland 1/17/14-GC 1/19/14-Melbourne 1/24/14-Sydney 1/26/14-Amsterdam 6/16/14 & 6/17/14-Milan 6/20/14-Berlin 6/26/14-Leeds 7/8/14-Milton Keynes 7/11/14-St. Louis 10/3/14-NYC 9/26/15
    LIVEFOOTSTEPS.ORG/USER/?USR=435
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    ldent42 said:

    Smellyman said:

    image
    Not because of the evil fears fox news has their base believe.

    There are too many damn people on this planet and growing. It isn't sustainable

    image
    I do my best to remain hopeful yet at the same time I'm digging getting down with this kind of dooooooooooom!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • joseph33joseph33 Posts: 1,247
    Im about the same as the song Gone if that says anything.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    "Lost causes are the only causes worth fighting for."
    - Martin Sheen

    I'm going to work harder than ever in 2016 to restore hope and life to our battered world. All the sorrowful and pitiful voices of gloom and despair will have no effect other than to encourage me to work even harder. Here's to a better world in 2016!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • I am extremely hopeful...except we are headed for another Clinton-Bush face off. When will at least one party learn? Anyone voting for either of those choices is extremely stupid.
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • jeffbrjeffbr Posts: 7,177
    brianlux said:

    "Lost causes are the only causes worth fighting for."
    - Martin Sheen

    I'm going to work harder than ever in 2016 to restore hope and life to our battered world. All the sorrowful and pitiful voices of gloom and despair will have no effect other than to encourage me to work even harder. Here's to a better world in 2016!

    OK, Brian, now you've got me thinking. For quite some time I thought you were a card carrying member of Team Curmudgeon. I dont know if I've been reading you wrong or if you've changed your perspective but your posts this evening are encouraging and motivating. I can't commit tonight to following your lead but you've given me food for thought and perhaps a little more hope that we can each make a difference. I'll be kicking back this evening with a little green and some champagne, will flip 2015 the bird, and then figure out how to make 2016 a year of positive change. I can't commit to making a better world, and am not encouraged by the upcoming presidential election, but I can certainly work to better my own situation and better my community. Cheers!
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    jeffbr said:

    brianlux said:

    "Lost causes are the only causes worth fighting for."
    - Martin Sheen

    I'm going to work harder than ever in 2016 to restore hope and life to our battered world. All the sorrowful and pitiful voices of gloom and despair will have no effect other than to encourage me to work even harder. Here's to a better world in 2016!

    OK, Brian, now you've got me thinking. For quite some time I thought you were a card carrying member of Team Curmudgeon. I dont know if I've been reading you wrong or if you've changed your perspective but your posts this evening are encouraging and motivating. I can't commit tonight to following your lead but you've given me food for thought and perhaps a little more hope that we can each make a difference. I'll be kicking back this evening with a little green and some champagne, will flip 2015 the bird, and then figure out how to make 2016 a year of positive change. I can't commit to making a better world, and am not encouraged by the upcoming presidential election, but I can certainly work to better my own situation and better my community. Cheers!
    Haha! (Just so's you'll know how much I value humor as well as curmudgeonliness!)

    I admit to being part curmudgeon but only in the sense that I get angry quite often and mostly that anger is at what I see as injustice to both the planet and all of its inhabitants and that kind of anger coincides with the will to take action. In personal relationships, I much prefer cooperation, kindness, and respect. But I never back down from a firm belief and I particularly won't back down from my support of the health of the planet and the defense of biodiversity. As for optimism, I always go with the idea that hope is doing what makes sense no matter how hopeless the situation may be. Without hope and the willingness to work for what makes sense despite the seemingly overwhelming odds in favor of defeat, why even bother trying? Few of us will ever make great change. Few of us will rise to the level of Gandhi, or MLK or Nelson Mandela or Paul Watson but it also takes all of the rest of us doing our little part to make great things happen. It's all of us whom are unsung and unknown who can make change happen. Without us, the heroes we hold in esteem haven't a chance to make things happen. I'm happy to be one tiny cog in that system.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    brianlux said:

    jeffbr said:

    brianlux said:

    "Lost causes are the only causes worth fighting for."
    - Martin Sheen

    I'm going to work harder than ever in 2016 to restore hope and life to our battered world. All the sorrowful and pitiful voices of gloom and despair will have no effect other than to encourage me to work even harder. Here's to a better world in 2016!

    OK, Brian, now you've got me thinking. For quite some time I thought you were a card carrying member of Team Curmudgeon. I dont know if I've been reading you wrong or if you've changed your perspective but your posts this evening are encouraging and motivating. I can't commit tonight to following your lead but you've given me food for thought and perhaps a little more hope that we can each make a difference. I'll be kicking back this evening with a little green and some champagne, will flip 2015 the bird, and then figure out how to make 2016 a year of positive change. I can't commit to making a better world, and am not encouraged by the upcoming presidential election, but I can certainly work to better my own situation and better my community. Cheers!
    Haha! (Just so's you'll know how much I value humor as well as curmudgeonliness!)

    I admit to being part curmudgeon but only in the sense that I get angry quite often and mostly that anger is at what I see as injustice to both the planet and all of its inhabitants and that kind of anger coincides with the will to take action. In personal relationships, I much prefer cooperation, kindness, and respect. But I never back down from a firm belief and I particularly won't back down from my support of the health of the planet and the defense of biodiversity. As for optimism, I always go with the idea that hope is doing what makes sense no matter how hopeless the situation may be. Without hope and the willingness to work for what makes sense despite the seemingly overwhelming odds in favor of defeat, why even bother trying? Few of us will ever make great change. Few of us will rise to the level of Gandhi, or MLK or Nelson Mandela or Paul Watson but it also takes all of the rest of us doing our little part to make great things happen. It's all of us whom are unsung and unknown who can make change happen. Without us, the heroes we hold in esteem haven't a chance to make things happen. I'm happy to be one tiny cog in that system.
    And Jeff, how cool and wise that you want to improve your own life and your community. Excellent! Cheers,

    Brian
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,086
    I fall pretty high up on the hope spectrum. This comes from my general sense of contentedness and positivity, combined with a belief that everyone is good at their core. Also, most quality of life indicators for the world's population support the notion that things have been getting better over time. Really, the Earth is what's struggling more and more, and it just needs to hang on until the global population starts to decrease in about 50 - 70 years, and we start trending away from a consumer based economy as a result.

    It's sad to see people get dragged down under the avalanche of negative stories that are always coming at us. The thing is, most of this stuff was happening before, and probably more often.
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    Global population decrease in 50 years????
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576

    I am extremely hopeful...except we are headed for another Clinton-Bush face off. When will at least one party learn? Anyone voting for either of those choices is extremely stupid.

    You can vote for someone else, or not vote at all. You won't make any difference in the outcome, so I don't see why the need to call someone stupid for wanting to be a part of the (bullshit) process.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,086
    callen said:

    Global population decrease in 50 years????

    Of course it's a prediction, but there seems to be a lot of support of the shift happening. What's interesting is that it hasn't really entered into dialogue very much:

    cnbc.com/id/101018722
    theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1999/08/the-population-surprise-9908/377735/
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    hope and dreams....for me on a global scale as well as community I hope to see people understand each others differences and learn to accept each other without war's but that's a dream so I'll keep surviving day to day and hope for the best.
    the reality of it all is so confusing because the human need for control and power too often crush the dream that could create a peaceful world and so too often we must make personal choices to ensure our own personal safety and well being.

    Godfather
  • AnnafalkAnnafalk Posts: 4,004
    edited January 2016
    Well spoken Godfather !
    Post edited by Annafalk on
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388

    callen said:

    Global population decrease in 50 years????

    Of course it's a prediction, but there seems to be a lot of support of the shift happening. What's interesting is that it hasn't really entered into dialogue very much:

    cnbc.com/id/101018722
    theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1999/08/the-population-surprise-9908/377735/
    Thanks for providing links and information. Hope for planet.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • Abe FromanAbe Froman Posts: 5,281
    I have some hope Brian. Although I do find it tough sometimes. especially when I see things like the number of people that think Trump would be a good thing for our country.
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