Star Wars Thread

rgambs

It's interesting to me the differences in training for the Jedi we've seen. What we see in Luke's training was heavily physical but with lessons on the nature of the Force and how to connect to it.  What we see of Obi-Wan's training and that he carries on with Anakin is mostly training about how a Jedi Knight behaves.  Sort of makes sense since Anakin is already so powerfully connected to the Force.  Rey's training is all about the nature of the Force and how to connect to it.
I really enjoy the progression of the psychic Force Powers from influencing simple minds and sensing disturbances in the Force in the originals to clouding and subverting thoughts and light mind touching in the prequels, to full on mind reading, control, and telepathic communication in the news.
The progression of telekinetic powers doesn't give me the same excitement, but I like it as much as I like the vastly improving physical action.

mcgruff10

seeing the last jedi today with my three sons....can't wait!

tempo_n_groove

rgambs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

rgambs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

rgambs said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

Geeeee, people having an issue with bombs falling in space. Use your imagination. What if they are guided bombs or magnetic like that are attracted towards something like a star destroyer.

How didn't Snoke read Kylo's mind to prevent him being killed? What if Kylo used some special force power to hide his thoughts?

Star Wars has always been way too loose with the laws of physics.  It's one thing in 1980, but damn, hire a consultant to check that shit.
Hire me, I'll do it.
Bombs just doesn't make sense for the level of technology and the situation.
It didn't take me out of the movie though, I only gave it a passing thought, I was dialed in and had my analysis set to low.

Kylo and Snoke, yeah that's no problem for me.
He pulled a Palpatine.  Mind control and similar powers have existed since A New Hope and have been expanded in a way that I, personally, really like. 
Kylo and Rey's struggles in TFA and connections in TLJ are great and seem to me, when placed in context with the rest of the two films, to establish that Kylo's Force powers are much more psychokinetic and telepathic than physical.
It's great new stuff with a ton of possibilities and I have no problem believing that even though Snoke bridged Kylo and Rey's minds, they experienced growth and expansion of power through that connection that soon eclipsed Snoke's.
Makes perfect sense to me, but I am a bit high.
It really reminds me of elements from Orson Scott Card's Ender Wiggin books.

I'm still not sold that Rey and Kilo developed super powers beyond Snokes ability in such a brief moment. 

Why not?  The saga is full of people born with extraordinary power being put into use with minimal training.
Anakin was a pod racing toddler and Luke used to nail Womp Rats in his T-16 back home.

Why not?  Here's why.

Anakin was trained by Jedi's for quite a while to become what he was.

Luke was trained for a while by Yoda and at least he lost to Vader whom also went easy on him considering he wanted to join forces.

Kylo was trained by Luke and Snoke whom just told us that he has been controlling his thoughts this whole time yet couldn't read them when he's about to get killed.

Luke's training was seriously minimal, Anakin had physical Force Powers before he even knew it.

Snoke was arrogant and arrogance causes blindness. If Master Yoda's hubris can cause him to fail to see that his acquaintance Palpatine is the Sith Lord disturbing the Force so greatly, it's easy to imagine that Snoke's hubris allows him to think he has control of Kylo's mind when, in fact, Kylo is misdirecting him with the false thoughts of submission that Snoke eagerly wants to believe.

It's even easier to believe for me when I consider that Force Powers grow with use and such an intimate mind to mind connection could easily cause some sort of twining that would increase their power and maybe even allow them to draw from each other.  
This is new territory, and the metaphysical ramifications are wide open.  Rey's untrained abilities are unsettling for some who don't like change, but it makes for a very compelling new character.  The scene in which she enters the Dark Side and Luke is terrified by her power and aghast at her boldness is very telling, this plus Kylo's raw power and the quick emergence of a new Sith Lord, suggest that the Force itself is in resurgence and bold new possibilities are on the horizon.

I had thought about this too but then I remember how few Jedi/students with the force he has actually come across.

The little boy at the end that plays with the broom shows that more people with the force are out there and balance may be brought back?

This Jedi movie was rushed and they could have done more with it but I still have hope for the next one.  

I do enjoy your optimism with the film though.

Real talk though, someone discussed a bracelet that Leia was wearing and that might have helped her do her moonwalk?

rgambs

I don't know about a bracelet, but in 30 years she ought to have picked up enough telekinetic power to move small objects, and that's all the force that would be necessary to pull her back in zero G.
They just boned the physicality of it, she looks like Mary Poppins or something.

If she had been oriented on her back with her feet toward the ship, she could have used a very small wrist movement, or only hand, and she could pull herself and it would look like she was falling to the ship.  It would have played out much better in what was meant to be a highly dramatic moment.

rgambs

This film definitely has some major issues, but so did every other Star Wars movie, so I'm not letting the flaws ruin the triumphs, and there were definitely some triumphant moments.

mcgruff10

A little long in the middle parts but it was just as good as the force awakens imho

mickeyrat

it wasnt the tracker both rey and leia were wearing to help rey find them after the trip to luke?

tempo_n_groove

mickeyrat said:

it wasnt the tracker both rey and leia were wearing to help rey find them after the trip to luke?

Was there a ring then?

Wobbie

nerds be over thinking this stuff.

rgambs

Wobbie said:

nerds be over thinking this stuff.

It ain't sports, this shit requires some thought!

Thoughts_Arrive

Regarding people being pissed off at how Rey has quickly developed her Jedi powers,
Remember what Kylo said in TFA when she freed herself using the mind trick?
"She's just beginning to test her powers. The longer it takes to find her... the more dangerous she becomes"
So, once she starts using the force she quickly becomes stronger in it.

JimmyV

The last shot of The Force Awakens is beautiful. The location, John Williams score, the range of emotions that play across Mark Hamill's face when he sees the lightsaber...it is absolutely beautiful. It is also a bit of a cliffhanger. Rather than pay it off, The Last Jedi uses it as setup for a cheap laugh in the theater.

When we last saw Finn he had taken a lightsaber shot to his spine. The Last Jedi begins for the Resistance no more than a day or two (at most) after that fight. Are there repercussions or after effects from what even in space fantasy must have been a serious injury? Well, this film needs Finn to go on a cooky casino adventure so, no. He's fine. He wakes up in a magic spine fixing machine that sets up another joke.

In TFA Rey used the force on multiple occasions. Yes, she didn't fully understand what she was doing and yes she still needed/wanted to be trained. But she knew what the force felt like. Does that carry over into The Last Jedi? Not really. Instead we get Luke tickling her with a leaf and her thinking that is the force for yet another joke.

When we last left Maz her bar had been destroyed by the First Order. Now a few days later she is in a "union dispute" shootout. Um, what? Where is this happening and who is she fighting? Does this even make sense in the story? Don't ask such questions because it doesn't really matter. This is all just set up for more jokes anyway.

When we last left Hux he was the driving force behind the utter destruction of the New Republic's government. He was the one who insisted the time was right to fire the Star Killer weapon. He was the one who gave that borderline insane fascist speech. Hux in TFA was a motivated and determined guy who wanted to defeat his enemies ASAP. Hux in TLJ is suddenly willing to plod along in a slow speed chase through space for eighteen hours. Eighteen. Hours. Why? Because if he does anything else, if he tries any other tactic, the entire plot of the film collapses upon itself. It is stunningly terrible.

And that's why I am so down on this film. It has its strong points certainly but as a sequel to The Force Awakens, the first Star Wars film since Empire that I've truly loved, it absolutely fails.

rgambs

JimmyV said:

The last shot of The Force Awakens is beautiful. The location, John Williams score, the range of emotions that play across Mark Hamill's face when he sees the lightsaber...it is absolutely beautiful. It is also a bit of a cliffhanger. Rather than pay it off, The Last Jedi uses it as setup for a cheap laugh in the theater.

When we last saw Finn he had taken a lightsaber shot to his spine. The Last Jedi begins for the Resistance no more than a day or two (at most) after that fight. Are there repercussions or after effects from what even in space fantasy must have been a serious injury? Well, this film needs Finn to go on a cooky casino adventure so, no. He's fine. He wakes up in a magic spine fixing machine that sets up another joke.

In TFA Rey used the force on multiple occasions. Yes, she didn't fully understand what she was doing and yes she still needed/wanted to be trained. But she knew what the force felt like. Does that carry over into The Last Jedi? Not really. Instead we get Luke tickling her with a leaf and her thinking that is the force for yet another joke.

When we last left Maz her bar had been destroyed by the First Order. Now a few days later she is in a "union dispute" shootout. Um, what? Where is this happening and who is she fighting? Does this even make sense in the story? Don't ask such questions because it doesn't really matter. This is all just set up for more jokes anyway.

When we last left Hux he was the driving force behind the utter destruction of the New Republic's government. He was the one who insisted the time was right to fire the Star Killer weapon. He was the one who gave that borderline insane fascist speech. Hux in TFA was a motivated and determined guy who wanted to defeat his enemies ASAP. Hux in TLJ is suddenly willing to plod along in a slow speed chase through space for eighteen hours. Eighteen. Hours. Why? Because if he does anything else, if he tries any other tactic, the entire plot of the film collapses upon itself. It is stunningly terrible.

And that's why I am so down on this film. It has its strong points certainly but as a sequel to The Force Awakens, the first Star Wars film since Empire that I've truly loved, it absolutely fails.

But you are focusing on the negative only, Luke had plenty of heavy and brilliant moments and Hux was a simpering fool all along, he was always going to be a lackey to Snoke and Kylo, even though Kylo fucks everything up.  Another whole movie of people taking that screaming Nazi little shit seriously would have been intolerable.

Finn's story arc is crap, it's got it's goodish moments, but I won't defend it because it was wasted screen time, though the stampede was some of the best special effects work the series has ever produced.

JimmyV

rgambs said:

JimmyV said:

The last shot of The Force Awakens is beautiful. The location, John Williams score, the range of emotions that play across Mark Hamill's face when he sees the lightsaber...it is absolutely beautiful. It is also a bit of a cliffhanger. Rather than pay it off, The Last Jedi uses it as setup for a cheap laugh in the theater.

When we last saw Finn he had taken a lightsaber shot to his spine. The Last Jedi begins for the Resistance no more than a day or two (at most) after that fight. Are there repercussions or after effects from what even in space fantasy must have been a serious injury? Well, this film needs Finn to go on a cooky casino adventure so, no. He's fine. He wakes up in a magic spine fixing machine that sets up another joke.

In TFA Rey used the force on multiple occasions. Yes, she didn't fully understand what she was doing and yes she still needed/wanted to be trained. But she knew what the force felt like. Does that carry over into The Last Jedi? Not really. Instead we get Luke tickling her with a leaf and her thinking that is the force for yet another joke.

When we last left Maz her bar had been destroyed by the First Order. Now a few days later she is in a "union dispute" shootout. Um, what? Where is this happening and who is she fighting? Does this even make sense in the story? Don't ask such questions because it doesn't really matter. This is all just set up for more jokes anyway.

When we last left Hux he was the driving force behind the utter destruction of the New Republic's government. He was the one who insisted the time was right to fire the Star Killer weapon. He was the one who gave that borderline insane fascist speech. Hux in TFA was a motivated and determined guy who wanted to defeat his enemies ASAP. Hux in TLJ is suddenly willing to plod along in a slow speed chase through space for eighteen hours. Eighteen. Hours. Why? Because if he does anything else, if he tries any other tactic, the entire plot of the film collapses upon itself. It is stunningly terrible.

And that's why I am so down on this film. It has its strong points certainly but as a sequel to The Force Awakens, the first Star Wars film since Empire that I've truly loved, it absolutely fails.

But you are focusing on the negative only, Luke had plenty of heavy and brilliant moments and Hux was a simpering fool all along, he was always going to be a lackey to Snoke and Kylo, even though Kylo fucks everything up.  Another whole movie of people taking that screaming Nazi little shit seriously would have been intolerable.

Finn's story arc is crap, it's got it's goodish moments, but I won't defend it because it was wasted screen time, though the stampede was some of the best special effects work the series has ever produced.

True, I am only focusing on the negative but only because this was a post explaining why I've come to not like this movie very much overall. My reasons aren't the same as many that I've heard the last few weeks. I have no real problem with how Luke was treated. While they do feel a bit like a bait n' switch, the Snoke and Rey's parentage reveals could make for an interesting Kylo-centric story in 9. I do think from Snoke's throne room on The Last Jedi is pretty good. It's just that the first half of the film before that is spent resetting from The Force Awakens. That's what I really do not like.