Jenner Woman of the Year

tempo_n_groove

PJ_Soul said:

Still not really really following you Tempo. Everything being discussed is fine to discuss.
And fwiw, I'm not accusing you of anything.

I'm all over the place sometimes PJ soul, I know that...

Thirty Bills Unpaid

callen said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

callen said:

Preference? So you chose to feel like a man?

And yes I feel if one has any qualms about others sexuality there is a problem. Is this schadenfreude?

And thinking about surgery on my penis makes me shudder which reinforces my empathy for humans that sacrifice so much to feel balanced. Then add being famous and the ridiculed.

No. I don't choose to feel like a man. I am a man and I am what I am.

So what makes you think a person would want to do the opposite and incur pain and ridicule? Think maybe it's because they have same strong desire as you just they're programming doesn't match body?

I have no idea.

People do and feel all kinds of bizarre and strange things that are challenging to explain.

PJfanwillneverleave1

callen said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

Everyone deserves to be who they are.
On the same token though you can't metamorphosize in front of your own species without regard.

Why?
Cause you say so?

Cause it's not gods plan?

I guess I should've added "to public opinion and ridicule".
Surprised you would mention gods plan in relation to anything I post.

tempo_n_groove

callen said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

callen said:

Preference? So you chose to feel like a man?

And yes I feel if one has any qualms about others sexuality there is a problem. Is this schadenfreude?

And thinking about surgery on my penis makes me shudder which reinforces my empathy for humans that sacrifice so much to feel balanced. Then add being famous and the ridiculed.

No. I don't choose to feel like a man. I am a man and I am what I am.

So what makes you think a person would want to do the opposite and incur pain and ridicule? Think maybe it's because they have same strong desire as you just they're programming doesn't match body?

"Their programming doesn't match" sounds like a mental illness reference?

There isn't a sign of mental illness in transgender people is there?

Serious question.

callen

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

callen said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

Everyone deserves to be who they are.
On the same token though you can't metamorphosize in front of your own species without regard.

Why?
Cause you say so?

Cause it's not gods plan?

I guess I should've added "to public opinion and ridicule".
Surprised you would mention gods plan in relation to anything I post.

I'm trying to understand the mentality of cruelty of making a human suffer due to another persons feelings/beliefs. I don't keep up with posters religious convictions just really wondering how one comes up with their positions.

I liken the backlash towards transgendered humans to those that feel that God loves you if your gay, just suffer your whole fkn life and not act on it. Or better, just seek conversion.

Wonder also if people are just jealous.

. I'm not insinuating any posters here feel these ways. I don't know.

callen

tempo_n_groove said:

callen said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

callen said:

Preference? So you chose to feel like a man?

And yes I feel if one has any qualms about others sexuality there is a problem. Is this schadenfreude?

And thinking about surgery on my penis makes me shudder which reinforces my empathy for humans that sacrifice so much to feel balanced. Then add being famous and the ridiculed.

No. I don't choose to feel like a man. I am a man and I am what I am.

So what makes you think a person would want to do the opposite and incur pain and ridicule? Think maybe it's because they have same strong desire as you just they're programming doesn't match body?

"Their programming doesn't match" sounds like a mental illness reference?

There isn't a sign of mental illness in transgender people is there?

Serious question.

Appreciate the question. Feel it's just inevitable with the billions of humans born, brains will be swapped with bodies. Just like any other birth defect. We have conjoined twins. No backlash of them being separated.

It's all just nature/gods will. Same as homosexuality. We should support and have empathy. Transgendered humans have it tough.

dignin

I don't agree with this, but I thought it was a little funny.

Go Beavers

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

callen said:

Thirty it's the exact same thing. When you have billions of humans, there will be birth defects including mix up of sexual orientation between brain and body. It is Nature. It is natural. As done have brown hair and others red.

Why is this not just accepted and empathy given to the poor humans that had this happen? Is it insecurity of ones own sexuality? Does it put one at odds with perceived reality?

I think it is accepted.

I think this discussion centers on 'what' it is accepted for. For me... I accept this as a preference more than a necessity.

And spinning the discussion to opponents is weak. Questioning the need to chop off one's penis and replace it with a vagina is hardly something that qualifies a person as 'scared' or 'insecure with their sexuality'.

Bruce was an alpha male at one point in his life. Let's not forget that at one point, his masculinity was without question. Trapped and helpless inside a body born useless to him? Not really.

Bruce's masculinity may have been without question for you and others, but definitely not for her. This is were a lot of the tension comes from: people not putting themselves in a place to understand the transgendered person's experience.

callen

Digin, that was funny.

PJ_Soul

Go Beavers said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

callen said:

Thirty it's the exact same thing. When you have billions of humans, there will be birth defects including mix up of sexual orientation between brain and body. It is Nature. It is natural. As done have brown hair and others red.

Why is this not just accepted and empathy given to the poor humans that had this happen? Is it insecurity of ones own sexuality? Does it put one at odds with perceived reality?

I think it is accepted.

I think this discussion centers on 'what' it is accepted for. For me... I accept this as a preference more than a necessity.

And spinning the discussion to opponents is weak. Questioning the need to chop off one's penis and replace it with a vagina is hardly something that qualifies a person as 'scared' or 'insecure with their sexuality'.

Bruce was an alpha male at one point in his life. Let's not forget that at one point, his masculinity was without question. Trapped and helpless inside a body born useless to him? Not really.

Bruce's masculinity may have been without question for you and others, but definitely not for her. This is were a lot of the tension comes from: people not putting themselves in a place to understand the transgendered person's experience.

For sure. In other words, a lot of people have a LOT of trouble finding empathy when it comes to transgendered people. It is just too far out of their own experience I guess. But that doesn't mean that empathy can't be found. Just takes some education.

ldent42

dignin said:

I don't agree with this, but I thought it was a little funny.

I came in here to post this LOL.
It's wrong on so many levels, which is what makes it funny imo

callen

Digin, well it is funny on many levels. women are so much smarter and tougher than men and would always win on gender of the year. Well cept for bugs. Ha.

hedonist

callen said:

Digin, well it is funny on many levels. women are so much smarter and tougher than men and would always win on gender of the year. Well cept for bugs. Ha.

You got that right.

tempo_n_groove

ldent42 said:

dignin said:

I don't agree with this, but I thought it was a little funny.

I came in here to post this LOL.
It's wrong on so many levels, which is what makes it funny imo

So this passes as ok for funny but laughing at the person for being a cat isn't?

I have another serious question.

Is jenners genetic make up orDNA, a woman's or a mans or is his brain telling him that he should be a woman?

Curious if there is a link or not?

Bentleyspop

Transgender model was '70s face of Clairol

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/16/entertainment/tracey-africa-norman-transgender-model-feat/?iid=ob_mobile_article_footer_expansion&iref=obinsite

dignin

tempo_n_groove said:

ldent42 said:

dignin said:

I don't agree with this, but I thought it was a little funny.

I came in here to post this LOL.
It's wrong on so many levels, which is what makes it funny imo

So this passes as ok for funny but laughing at the person for being a cat isn't?

I have another serious question.

Is jenners genetic make up orDNA, a woman's or a mans or is his brain telling him that he should be a woman?

Curious if there is a link or not?

One was bullying the other was a joke poking fun at everyone. One wasn't funny, the other was.

The last bit about DNA is a red herring, no one is arguing that Jenner wasn't born as a Male in the definition of sex.

How many times do we have to say that gender and sex are two different things?

tempo_n_groove

dignin said:

tempo_n_groove said:

ldent42 said:

dignin said:

I don't agree with this, but I thought it was a little funny.

I came in here to post this LOL.
It's wrong on so many levels, which is what makes it funny imo

So this passes as ok for funny but laughing at the person for being a cat isn't?

I have another serious question.

Is jenners genetic make up orDNA, a woman's or a mans or is his brain telling him that he should be a woman?

Curious if there is a link or not?

One was bullying the other was a joke poking fun at everyone. One wasn't funny, the other was.

The last bit about DNA is a red herring, no one is arguing that Jenner wasn't born as a Male in the definition of sex.

How many times do we have to say that gender and sex are two different things?

Gender/sex are different. Got it. I was wondering if there was a DNA link or not.

As for the funny thing, sorry. Funny is funny. It takes all forms

dignin

tempo_n_groove said:

dignin said:

tempo_n_groove said:

ldent42 said:

dignin said:

I don't agree with this, but I thought it was a little funny.

I came in here to post this LOL.
It's wrong on so many levels, which is what makes it funny imo

So this passes as ok for funny but laughing at the person for being a cat isn't?

I have another serious question.

Is jenners genetic make up orDNA, a woman's or a mans or is his brain telling him that he should be a woman?

Curious if there is a link or not?

One was bullying the other was a joke poking fun at everyone. One wasn't funny, the other was.

The last bit about DNA is a red herring, no one is arguing that Jenner wasn't born as a Male in the definition of sex.

How many times do we have to say that gender and sex are two different things?

Gender/sex are different. Got it. I was wondering if there was a DNA link or not.

As for the funny thing, sorry. Funny is funny. It takes all forms

So you would go up to a trans person and say "Hey! Since you want to be a dude/girl now I'm going to be a cat! Cause I wanna be a cat! Meow!"? Where I'm from that isn't funny.

I would have no trouble telling the other joke to a trans person.....it's so ridiculous it's funny.

As to the other DNA thing, if you're up on your science lingo.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexualism#Genetics

brianlux

I had a dream last night that this guy we know here in town had a sex change operation and came by to tell us about it. We were not offended of course and tried to be encouraging only he looked like a dude in drag and he thumped on his chest real macho-like and said, "I'm so happy to have these [boobs] now!" I should have told him to consult with Bruce on how to better pull this off.

ldent42

tempo_n_groove said:

ldent42 said:

dignin said:

I don't agree with this, but I thought it was a little funny.

I came in here to post this LOL.
It's wrong on so many levels, which is what makes it funny imo

So this passes as ok for funny but laughing at the person for being a cat isn't?

I have another serious question.

Is jenners genetic make up orDNA, a woman's or a mans or is his brain telling him that he should be a woman?

Curious if there is a link or not?

laughing at a person for being a cat? what? From Dignin's response I'm guessing there's a thing I missed somewhere.

I also just wanna point out that as long as you have a basic understanding of the way patriarchy works or like a baseline minimum knowledge of feminism, that joke is hilarious.