Berkeley

LeftThePorch315LeftThePorch315 Posts: 56
edited April 2008 in Given To Fly (live)
As I sit here and watch Miley Cyrus hippity hop around on ExxonMobil American Idol, boasting to Billy Crystal about numerous her #1 records and #1 movie and then have the cute audacity to ask me to donate money to Clean Water, Aids Research, Appalachia and beyond… I wonder who needs government and diplomacy when you have American Idol?

Can Rock and Roll save the world?
Maybe.
But American Idol isn’t Rock and Roll.
Eddie Vedder is Rock and Roll.

This post - this long, long post - I hope some of you have the time and interest to read, is at its axis, about the two solo shows Eddie Vedder recently performed in Berkeley, California. Yet in its genesis lay a scattered, but heavy gravity. It drives me to write something, but I am entirely intimidated by the task - and the importance - of putting it into words.

American adults shouldn’t need a background into Berkeley’s mid 20th century history. It was, and in many ways continues to be, an epicenter of youth activism, political protest, war opposition with a nice twist of weird. Many of the people in attendance at the Zellerbach shows were a part of this history. But many people who were at the same shows, all too apparently, were not.

Throughout my teenage and adult life, especially over the last seven and a half shit-stinking years, Pearl Jam has been has been the greatest public voice of my beliefs and convictions. More than any leader. More than any politician. I recognize the pathetic tragedy in this. I would love nothing more than to have leaders that so strongly echo my beliefs. Proudly, I have fought for this to the point of frustration and exhaustion, but time and time again we’ve come up on the losing side. Yet each time, in the wake of defeat, one of the voices I have heard is you-know-who. Sure, there are others who are more immediate to me that can make sense of it all and offer reassurance and hope. But Eddie does all those things… and he yells.

At the root of every artist are convictions. Why do you think they call it soul? To appreciate the art is to appreciate the convictions that inspired it. Pearl Jam are artists on world stage but the work they have done gives me inspiration to be an artist in the smallest of actions in my daily life.

I traveled to Berkeley, one of my favorite cities, on Monday night and sat in a beautiful theatre, watching one of my favorite artists perform surrounded by – what must have been - many Republicans. And it was odd.

Eddie spoke about ending army recruitment – aggressive army recruitment on impoverished high school campuses – and received limited response.

He shared his endorsement of Barack Obama – not many people stood to clap.

He sung about ending this war – singing with every energy he had – NO MORE! NO WAR! – and few chose to sing with him… even after he asked them to.

It was totally eerie and not what I had expected. Still many people did cheer. Many people did sing. And I was proud to be one of them. But it was the first time I had left a Pearl Jam show feeling like I was on the losing side.

The next day I logged on to the pearljam.com message boards and was I was flabbergast by what I saw. Many of the posts for the Monday Night Zellerbach show were from conservatives saying how tired they are of Eddie’s political commentary. That they wish he would talk less. That he would keep is politics to himself. That - giggle giggle - “I’m a conservative, but I still love you Eddie.”

Crime #1:
You take our current state of affairs lightly.

No surprise here. Conservativeness and selective ignorance often goes hand in hand. This is a matter of opinion and is forgivable because it is fixable. But please don’t commit crime #2

Crime #2:
You believe Eddie should just up and sing – like some kind of long-haired, musical surfer marionette; a male, and more hairy version of Miley Cyrus.

I hope you can help me out here. This specific crime leads raises a lot of questions that I hope you can answer for me. What is it that inspires you to like this band? What emotional response leads you to buy a ticket to the show? Do you listen to the lyrics? Do you beat your fist in the air when you hear “Life Wasted” or “Army Reserve” or do you just skip ahead to “Inside Job”? OK… and then when you actually listen to “Inside Job” and the lyric “I will not lose my faith, it’s an inside job today” fills the room, does that make you think about the Religious Right and Karl Rove staging a comeback? Because to me it is about some seriously morbid political times our county is suffering through right now – times that the party you support, either directly or through your ignorance, has put us in – and we can not lose hope for a better future. These are questions I need to know the answer to, because it brings me to crime #3.

Crime #3:
You show up to a show and you kill the energy.


So ends Chapter 1.
Chapter 2 is on you Eddie.

Ed, when you spoke to the audience on Monday night, it sounded as if you really thought you were performing to a bunch of college kids. Even though you were performing on a college campus, nothing could have been further from the truth.

A little bit about how I ended up at the show. I am a proud Ten Club member, but I made the decision to sit this round out because I could not afford the $80.00 tickets. Through some strict diligence and the handy use of a speed redial I was able to win tickets to the Monday night show through KFOG, a local and proudly progressive radio station in the Bay Area.

It cost $15.00 to park.
And a tank of California gas….

I stood, applauded and yelled when your friends rolled across the stage with the Obama ‘08 sign.
I was signing my soul out not only during not only “No More War”… but also “Here’s to the State.” Amen.
I also let you know that I thought you and Mr. Penn should have won an Academy Award.

But I would not have been there if I didn’t win the damn tickets.

$80.00?

I don’t put it on you. I stood by you during your Ticketmaster battles. I know there are just some things outside of your control. But at least have the where-with-all to know who you are inviting to the party when you charge that much to attend.

Wait, maybe that’s the idea… make the tickets expensive so that only Republicans can come and then you can use your badass -jedi-knight ways to bring them away from the darkside.

Probably not.

But it sure as hell explains why folks weren’t singing with us on Monday night.

IN CLOSING, I WANT TO POSE THE QUESTION, DIRECTLY AND SINCERELY TO PEARL JAM FANS: If you oppose the political opinions of the band, what else then does this band do to inspire you to spend $80.00 on a ticket? Is it really just beats and notes? If it is, I think you’re missing out.

Much respect – and thanks – and praise – to the Tuesday night crowd who for representing the Bay Area and Rock and Roll in much more appropriate fashion.

And much thanks to you “Ed et. al.” Keep kicking ass. Please.

ds
"What chance does Gotham have when the good people do nothing?"
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • CitizenRickCitizenRick Posts: 1,079
    Nice read!

    I agree with you 100%. I couldn't believe that people were refusing to sing. I was singing out loud and getting weird looks.

    Fuck em'...fuckin' young republicans...they don't even have a leg to stand on right now.

    Where do they even get the nerve?
    "Had my eyes peeled both wide open, and I got a glimpse...of my innocense, got back my inner sence, baby got it...still got it"
  • CorduroyboyCorduroyboy Posts: 1,256
    Great read! Couldn't agree with you more.

    Are you originally from the 315??
  • SDHSClassof82SDHSClassof82 Seattle Posts: 306
    He shared his endorsement of Barack Obama – not many people stood to clap. He sung about ending this war – singing with every energy he had – NO MORE! NO WAR! – and few chose to sing with him… even after he asked them to.

    I appreciate your thoughtful and eloquent post, LeftthePorch315.

    I was at SC (4th row) Berk 1, (6th row center). My friend and I looked at each other amazed when No More started. Completely different reaction from SC. A lot of other people looked surprised too. Another poster suggested the front rows were mainly older industry types...it was pretty 10c heavy too. I thought the seniors in the 2nd row may have included the Uncles Ed dedicated a song to.

    I've been thinking the subdued reaction was a fluke of group dynamics rather than many conversatives sitting silent in political disapproval. I tend to think the formality of the venue might have something to do with it. I was really cringing at all the requests and inane shoutouts. And blonde female usher on the aisle right of center basically formed her little own police state and was in my way many times. It just didn't have the nice communal vibe that SC did.

    I remember when the tall couple in the 5th row over on the left stood up towards the end and got a nod from Ed. I SO wanted to stand up also but was afraid of the ushers and blocking the people behind me. I sang on No More but it was so quiet I could clearly hear my own voice, so I felt I had to tone it down. A couple of guys in back of me (Hey, Duncan) were actively exhorting my section to stand during the encores. There were lots of enthusiatic individuals at the front, but no collective spirit.

    Still, it was a wonderful show. Wouldn't have missed it for the world. I will regret for a VERY long time I didn't go to Berkeley second night.

    Thanks for the time of my life, Ed. Sorry we let you down that time.

    Peace.
    “Wind in my hair, I feel part of everywhere...
    Late at night I hear the trees, they're singing with the dead...overhead...”
  • the front rows were mainly older industry types...it was pretty 10c heavy too. I thought the seniors in the 2nd row may have included the Uncles Ed dedicated a song to

    That should have added tot he vibe, not taken away from it, right?
    I've been thinking the subdued reaction was a fluke of group dynamics rather than many conversatives sitting silent in political disapproval. I tend to think the formality of the venue might have something to do with it. I was really cringing at all the requests and inane shoutouts. And blonde female usher on the aisle right of center basically formed her little own police state and was in my way many times. It just didn't have the nice communal vibe that SC did.

    I like this assessment. Funny that the only students in the audience were the security guards and they acted like fascists. I'm sure that had something to do with it, but I don't think that we can chalk it up to securty for keeping people from singing along or supporting the issues Ed was talking about.
    A couple of guys in back of me (Hey, Duncan) were actively exhorting my section to stand during the encores. There were lots of enthusiatic individuals at the front, but no collective spirit.

    GOOD FOR DUNCAN.
    Republicans don't have collective spirit. They have individual motives and collective fear.

    Still, it was a wonderful show. Wouldn't have missed it for the world. I will regret for a VERY long time I didn't go to Berkeley second night.

    YES.

    Thanks for the time of my life, Ed. Sorry we let you down that time.

    I think you're too harsh on yourself!

    I made my original post over a day ago now. Since then I've been checking for a response the question I posed. I will ask once again. I believe the question goes beyond Berkeley:

    I WANT TO POSE THE QUESTION, DIRECTLY AND SINCERELY TO PEARL JAM FANS: If you oppose the political opinions of the band, what else then does this band do to inspire you to spend $80.00 on a ticket? Is it really just beats and notes? If it is, I think you are missing out.
    "What chance does Gotham have when the good people do nothing?"
  • SDHSClassof82SDHSClassof82 Seattle Posts: 306
    I WANT TO POSE THE QUESTION, DIRECTLY AND SINCERELY TO PEARL JAM FANS: If you oppose the political opinions of the band, what else then does this band do to inspire you to spend $80.00 on a ticket? Is it really just beats and notes? If it is, I think you are missing out.


    I have been genuinely curious about this too. In the end, I'm happy to enjoy the shows along with conservative/Republican fans. I'm not saying their positions are necessarily poorly reasoned or casually held. But Ed sings about some powerful truths. Who better to hear them?

    Peace to all
    “Wind in my hair, I feel part of everywhere...
    Late at night I hear the trees, they're singing with the dead...overhead...”
  • joshuadmanleyjoshuadmanley Posts: 2
    edited February 2019
    Nope. 

    Post edited by joshuadmanley on
  • SDHSClassof82SDHSClassof82 Seattle Posts: 306
    this one's for the masses to chew on...this quote couldn't be more wrong: "Another poster suggested the front rows were mainly older industry types...it was pretty 10c heavy too. I thought the seniors in the 2nd row may have included the Uncles Ed dedicated a song to."

    By the way...My wife and I flew over from Hawaii to see the show. We stood and were singing loudly, and proudly. WE WERE IN THE 2ND ROW.

    To clarify, I meant no insult to industry types, senior citizens or Ed's family. Just passing on a possible explanation for a less audibly moved front section.

    I'm truly glad you came back safe and were there to enjoy the show and lead the sing-along.

    Thank you, sincerely.
    “Wind in my hair, I feel part of everywhere...
    Late at night I hear the trees, they're singing with the dead...overhead...”
  • "Conservativeness and selective ignorance often goes hand in hand".....

    I'm a conservative republican and have enjoyed Pearl Jam's music since the 8th grade. While I agree with you that Pearl Jam's lyrics sometimes speak with political liberalism, it also speaks to standing up for what you believe, love as a whole, losing in life. I think if you had stopped to think for one second before sending your post you would have realized that some Pearl Jam fans, the ones that actually buy tickets might want to see a good show (gasp), regardless of political affiliation.

    I'm not a fan of the war, I never have been, and I did sing along all 3 nights to NO MORE. I also believe that your statement shows more ignorance by saying that it was republicans who brought the show down. Seriously, were there that many people that refused to sing because of political affiliation? I doubt it. In that case it was your liberal friends that weren't singing, and that my friend is a shame.

    I feel getting on the Pearl Jam message board to start a political feud may be a little asinine so I will save you the trouble, I have no desire to fight. I understand most people here are Democrats, that’s fine. I love Pearl Jam; I love listening to Eddie, even though I sometimes don't agree with him. It's always good to listen to the other side of the argument. Just know that making blanket ignorant statements about a whole political party makes you look foolish.

    In conclusion I just want to say, It's funny that you were the one that yelled out, "You should have won an academy award." I feel like since you know Ed so well, his political beliefs and whom he wants at the concert, you should know those awards don't mean a damn thing to him or Alexander Supertramp, if you will.
    Kansas City 1998, Kansas City 2000, EV- Santa Cruz 2008, EV- Berkeley #1 2008, EV- Berkeley #2 2008, Outside Lands 2009, Seattle #2 2009, Portland 2009, LA #3 2009, LA #4 2009, SD 2009, KC 2010, STL 2010, CBUS 2010, Indy 2010, Cle 2010, Buffalo 2010, Boston 2010, Newark 2010, MSG 1 2010, MSG 2 2010, PJ20 1 2011, PJ20 2 2011, Midtown 2012, Worcester 1 2013, Worcester 2 2013, OKC 2013, STL 2014, Tulsa 2014, Lincoln 2014.
  • CitizenRickCitizenRick Posts: 1,079
    this one's for the masses to chew on...this quote couldn't be more wrong: "Another poster suggested the front rows were mainly older industry types...it was pretty 10c heavy too. I thought the seniors in the 2nd row may have included the Uncles Ed dedicated a song to."

    I am serving my 9th (AND FINAL) year of military service. I served for 6 years, got out for a while, and came back in. I did it for many reasons, but if I could go back, I wouldn't have came back in the second time around. I returned a short while ago from a 15 consecutive month tour in Iraq. I am a medic. I saw the worst of the worst. The blood will be on my hands FOREVER. I also got a better idea of what is really going on over there.

    Ed is my hero. I wish that more people had the guts to do what he does. I can only hope that I can work up the nerve to do half of what he does when I am officially out again. I cannot speak for the whole of the U.S. Army, but I can speak from what I've personally heard and seen. Ed is dead on, but, unfortunately, his words sometimes fall on deaf ears, people who can't think for themselves, and sometimes, crowds of ignorance.

    I have served. I have learned. I back Ed and always will. Ed's music speaks for me and thousands of my fellow soldiers.

    By the way...My wife and I flew over from Hawaii to see the show. We stood and were singing loudly, and proudly. WE WERE IN THE 2ND ROW.

    Good for you man!

    Welcome to the board and thanks for serving!
    "Had my eyes peeled both wide open, and I got a glimpse...of my innocense, got back my inner sence, baby got it...still got it"
  • slightofjeffslightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    I believe in some of what you posted. I am also flabbergasted and offended by some of it.

    So I should stand and applaud an Obama banner, even if I don't like him or what he stands for?

    I should sing loudly for an anti-war song, even if I support the mission?

    I don't get it.

    I'm not a shut up and sing type. Ed is free to express his opinions, and I am free to not share them. I think Ed would agree.

    As for the "how can you be conservative and like Pearl Jam" argument ... it's tired and it's played out and it shows absolutely no understanding of conservatism.

    Ed writes songs about love and lost love, suicide, abused children, the plight of the homeless. And only liberals can like them, apparently, because conservatives are for hate, abusing kids, and keeping people homeless.

    Give. Me. A. Fucking. Break.

    For every song you can name that is blatantly anti-Bush or anti-republican, I can name 10 that aren't.

    I'm supposed to not like Wishlist, Off He Goes, Black, Thumbing My Way, Faithfull, Rearviewmirror, Elderly Woman, Alive and Breath ... just because of Bushleaguer?

    Again, Give. Me. A. Fucking. Break.

    Let me be clear. I'm all for Ed expressing his beliefs, on stage and off, in song and in interviews. I just don't see why I have to agree with everything he says to be a fan of 98 percent of his songs that are a hell of a lot more universal than politics

    It almost makes me wonder: If Ed had unfurled a McCain banner, would you have stood and applauded?

    Sometimes, I think you people ONLY like Pearl Jam for their politics.

    What I would suggest, to you and all liberals, is this: Go. Enjoy the show. And stop telling the rest of us how to behave.

    Thank you.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • this one's for the masses to chew on...this quote couldn't be more wrong: "Another poster suggested the front rows were mainly older industry types...it was pretty 10c heavy too. I thought the seniors in the 2nd row may have included the Uncles Ed dedicated a song to."

    I am serving my 9th (AND FINAL) year of military service. I served for 6 years, got out for a while, and came back in. I did it for many reasons, but if I could go back, I wouldn't have came back in the second time around. I returned a short while ago from a 15 consecutive month tour in Iraq. I am a medic. I saw the worst of the worst. The blood will be on my hands FOREVER. I also got a better idea of what is really going on over there.

    Ed is my hero. I wish that more people had the guts to do what he does. I can only hope that I can work up the nerve to do half of what he does when I am officially out again. I cannot speak for the whole of the U.S. Army, but I can speak from what I've personally heard and seen. Ed is dead on, but, unfortunately, his words sometimes fall on deaf ears, people who can't think for themselves, and sometimes, crowds of ignorance.

    I have served. I have learned. I back Ed and always will. Ed's music speaks for me and thousands of my fellow soldiers.

    By the way...My wife and I flew over from Hawaii to see the show. We stood and were singing loudly, and proudly. WE WERE IN THE 2ND ROW.


    I SAW YOU THERE!
    I turned to my brother and said "I guarantee you those two have a connection to this war."
    You made that show special to me.

    I am so honored that you responded to this post.

    Thank you for your service to this country and your unyielding patriotism.
    This country needs more people like you speaking out.

    God bless you and your family
    "What chance does Gotham have when the good people do nothing?"
  • "
    I have been genuinely curious about this too. In the end, I'm happy to enjoy the shows along with conservative/Republican fans. I'm not saying their positions are necessarily poorly reasoned or casually held. But Ed sings about some powerful truths. Who better to hear them?
    "

    I absolutely agree with you. I wrote this post on the heels of seeing a show - IN BERKELEY - where folks couldn't find a way to sing an antiwar song. And I was really, really pissed about it. I really want these folks to hear Ed's message, but I also want to enjoy the show. I guess I'll just sing even louder next time... some how....

    Onto the next fella...

    "
    As for the "how can you be conservative and like Pearl Jam" argument ... it's tired and it's played out and it shows absolutely no understanding of conservatism.

    Ed writes songs about love and lost love, suicide, abused children, the plight of the homeless. And only liberals can like them, apparently, because conservatives are for hate, abusing kids, and keeping people homeless.

    For every song you can name that is blatantly anti-Bush or anti-republican, I can name 10 that aren't.

    I'm supposed to not like Wishlist, Off He Goes, Black, Thumbing My Way, Faithfull, Rearviewmirror, Elderly Woman, Alive and Breath ... just because of Bushleaguer?
    "

    I guess I don't read enough of these message boards, but it's not played out. I have posed this question three different times on the boards in the last two years and nobody has made a response.

    I have to hand it to you for taking a good swing at it. The effort you have put into this reponse shows me that you are passionate about the band and you make a good argument.

    Although I don't agree with you, it makes me somewhat content to agree to disagree with you. And I appreciate that greatly.

    Here's hoping you listen to the other songs too, brother.

    You correctly bring up some very important and relevant Pearl Jam themes: abused children, homeless, suicide

    The question that I pose is which party in office is cutting the social programs to assist these people, while at the same time providing the largest tax cuts in history to the wealthiest 5% of Americans?

    "
    I should sing loudly for an anti-war song, even if I support the mission?
    "
    No. But it again begs the question, why are you at the show? Spending $80 to see an artist in which you love half the songs and have no feeling for the other half... is weird to me.


    "
    It almost makes me wonder: If Ed had unfurled a McCain banner, would you have stood and applauded?
    "

    NO. BUT if Ed had done this, I would have listened to his reasoning. And, if, in the end, I disagreed with him, I probably would have great trouble listening to him in the future.

    There is a reason I don't like Ted Nugent, Brittany Spears and The Hills.

    But this never going to happen because at the heart of the vast majority of of the songs Eddie Vedder writes is an angry, and beautiful, message of hope for human progress.

    It is a message that I believe has a little to do with the Republican Party of today as peace, historic wisdom, global warming awareness, evolution, Abraham Lincoln and the true teachings of Jesus himself.

    I want to conclude on a positive note. I really appreciate your response to my first post and would welcome a response to this one.
    "What chance does Gotham have when the good people do nothing?"
  • joshuadmanleyjoshuadmanley Posts: 2
    edited February 2019
    So...
    Post edited by joshuadmanley on
  • CitizenRickCitizenRick Posts: 1,079
    I should sing loudly for an anti-war song, even if I support the mission?

    I can see some of your points...but not this one. How...after all this time can you support this mission?

    I'm scared to death that these are the feelings of too many people in this nation.

    Please reconsider this thought. You are DEAD wrong....dead wrong. This war is a travisty.

    Al-Qaeda is still out there...where the fuck is Osama Bin Laden?
    "Had my eyes peeled both wide open, and I got a glimpse...of my innocense, got back my inner sence, baby got it...still got it"
  • cpsilo1cpsilo1 Posts: 73
    Just send me the official "pearl jam fan" handbook, and I'l be obliged to follow along.

    TIA
  • cpsilo1 wrote:
    Just send me the official "pearl jam fan" handbook, and I'l be obliged to follow along.

    TIA


    No, no.
    I'm sorry.
    I think you misunderstood me.

    I'm not talking about providing a "'pearl jam fan' handbook"

    I'm talking about providing a hand book for ALL OF ROCK AND ROLL.
    I'm talking about providing a hand book for being decent human being and a citizen of the United States.

    And you know what? The handbook -if you actually listen to it- is in Vedder's Lyrics.
    "What chance does Gotham have when the good people do nothing?"
  • acutejamacutejam Posts: 1,433
    May politics always be your worst nightmare. I have much more personal and yes, larger and perhaps self-centered issues, on my mind as anyone in middle age with parents getting old, spouses, kids, friends ... things fall apart. I know, regardless of politics, I speak for a VAST majorty of Pearl Jam fans.

    But I'm glad you're passionate about this topic, Left, it'll make this a bit easier to explain. I think first and foremost humans are emotional, passionate beasts -- politics comes a distant runner-up. But we may debate the full and true role of politics in our lives. ("We" may, I won't....)

    We can also debate the full and true role of emotions in our lives. I came to Ed's show, the Bay Area trifecta on my hard-earned dimes from the "mill," in particular for the emotional side, the beauty and sadness of these songs of Love/Loss/Life/Joy. To enjoy the art.

    Yes, I giggled at Hail to the State, a nice updated version I could empathize with, not nesc relate to, but I could put myself in Ed's and your's shoes and see the beauty of that song. I wonder if you would struggle to do the same for me, put yourself in my shoes ... Trust me, you would not want to. Sorry to be obtuse, i will not relate the pain I'm in. I will not cut that vein and bleed for you. I do not need your pity, your sorrow, or your support. Rest assured, I am an Island of Pain.

    Ansel Adams said: Every photo has at least two people in it -- the photographer, and the viewer. I do not go to Pearl Jam or Eddie shows for the former, I didn't have Eddie's life, I don't have his politics, I have mine. But I can share his sorrows, his blues, his rage, they resonate -- I go to shows for what they mean to me, for the viewer. For a bit of a cry ("I'm sad, and I'm taking you down with me!" - Ed, Santa Cruz). Some laughs. And to rock, the joy of rocking out, the joy of this Western Civilization-created art. It is ours uniquely. And hopefully, for a few moments, to forget about these things in my 42 years of experience that make me sad, make me hurt, make me rage. ("Teenage death songs have been really good for us" - Ed.) Yes, to embrace those things during some songs and let them pour out, and in other places, to forget ... Please dear god, just to forget for five minutes.

    I wonder if YOU are missing out on a lot -- something much more essential to the human experience of this world than mere politics. I think you've merely overlooked it in your posts. You sound in touch with your emotions.

    I appreciate Ed for making a stand with his Mic, for pointing us to useful sources of knowledge, for enlightening us -- but no, I don't share all his views. Rock and Roll offers little to me for political inspiration, not "nothing" but yes, "little." I don't read news stories or ingest sound-bites, I read books and essays. It's a nice escape for me.

    And no, I do not take the dire straights our world is in lightly. I look at a run-down California mismanaged by a 30-year Democrat stranglehold on legislature, and I squirrel away every penny I can for private school for my kids. I look at Democrats in Congress and know it's just words, they could end funding of the war today, they really could, I could point you to the procedures they don't seem to want to share with their voters. And more so, I look to a world, where honestly, you and I have far less differences, than the politics of some very sad countries.

    I believe the parents of kids in Venezuela, in Egypt, in North Korea, in Thailand, in Serbia, in Russia, in Iran, Iraq and Saudi Arabia -- all parents want the same things for their kids. A better life than they had. I'm quite thankful I'm in a country where I can make my voice heard to the govt and try to make that happen. I do not hate the parents of those kids in those countries (I'll reserve judgement on Palestinians for the time-being) -- but I do seeth at those governments. I do not take this lightly. Thank you.

    So I would offer that you let me be and enjoy my shows of emotions. What sounds more truthful to you: that these songs are about the Politics of Emotions? Or are some, (vast majority, please, you jest) about the Emotions of Politics. Art is Emotions. It is to evoke an emotional response, a personal interpretation, something personal.

    So let's just see who crashed whose show on Monday, shall we?

    SONGS OF POLITICS
    Dead Man Walking (and what a beautifully emotional song!)
    Here's to the State
    Society -- (kinda?)
    No More

    SONGS OF LOVE/LOSS/LIFE/JOY
    Walking the Cow
    Around the Bend
    I Am Mine
    I'm Open
    Man of The Hour
    Setting Forth
    Guaranteed
    No Ceiling
    Far Behind
    Millworker -- (ok, one line, never met the man whose name is on the label, u want that!? the general grind of common man overall? Again with Ansel, we can see it how we want to.)
    Goodbye
    Satellite !!!
    Driftin
    You've Got to Hide Your Love Away
    Trouble
    If you Want to Sing Out, Sing Out
    Parting Ways
    Forever Young
    Growin' Up
    Porch
    Lukin
    Arc (sorry, u can't have this one)
    Hard Sun

    And Yes, I will take "Throw Your Arms Around Me" any day over "Here's to the State." I felt robbed, but yes, i knew where i was, willingly. Heck, I'd have taken "Patriot" for both of us over State! And if you could, please do go through Pearl Jams entire catalogue and show me the VAST MAJORITY, this political side -- you make claims you may find hard pressed to support (but I will grant you, we may have very different views of where to draw that boundary of Life-v-Politics).

    Here I'll scratch a few off your list that have nothing to do with politics: Ten, VS., Vitalogy (maybe Not for You, I'd like to hear), No Code, Yield, Binaural (except: Evacuation,Insignificance,Soon Forget perhaps?) and then, THEN yes, they begin to add some politics to their repertoire.

    In my opinion ... but I'm open to yours.
    [sic] happens
  • acutejamacutejam Posts: 1,433
    acutejam wrote:
    Rest assured, I am an Island of Pain.

    Neil Gaiman, American Gods:

    No man, proclaimed Donne, is an Island, and he was wrong.

    If we were not islands, we would be lost, drowned in each other's tragedies. We are insulated (a word that means, literally, remember, made into an island) from the tragedy of others, by our island nature, and by the repetitive shape and form of the stories. The shape does not change: There was a human being who was born, lived, and then, by some means or another, died. There. You may fill in the details from your own experience. As unoriginal as any other tale, as unique as any other life.

    Lives are snowflakes -- forming patterns we have seen before, as like one another as peas in a pod (and have you ever looked at peas in a pod? I mean, really looked at them? There's not a chance you'd mistake one for another, after a minute's close inspection), but still unique.

    Without individuals we see only numbers: a thousand dead, a hundred thousand dead, "casualties may rise to a million." With individual stories, the statistics become people -- but even that is a lie, for the people continue to suffer in number that themselves are numbing and meaningless.

    Look, see the child's swollen, swollen belly, and the flies that crawl at the corners of his eyes, his skeletal limbs: will it make it easier for you to know his name, his age, his dreams, his fears? To see him from the inside? And if it does, are we not doing a disservice to his sister, who lies in the searing dust beside him, a distorted, distended caricature of a human child? And there, if we feel for them, are they now more important to us than a thousand other children touched by the same famine, a thousand other young lives who will soon be food for the flies' own myriad squirming children?

    We draw our lines around these moments of pain, and remain upon our islands, and they cannot hurt us. They are covered with a smooth, safe, nacreous layer to let them slip, pearllike, from our souls without real pain.
    [sic] happens
  • acutejamacutejam Posts: 1,433
    We stood and were singing loudly, and proudly.

    I was in the third row, I think yes, the right thing would have been to stand with you -- but there was a beauty to your action. You and your lady, standing, singing. Being heard. Being seen. It had a power all its own.

    I do "stand with you" in the small ways one can, but not then -- that was your moment. It would have been different had we all stood, but yes, it was quite clear you were a solider.

    I did not giggle. I prayed.

    God Bless you and yours, and thank you, from me and mine.
    [sic] happens
  • halszka123halszka123 Posts: 1,109
    I don’t put it on you. I stood by you during your Ticketmaster battles. I know there are just some things outside of your control. But at least have the where-with-all to know who you are inviting to the party when you charge that much to attend.

    Wait, maybe that’s the idea… make the tickets expensive so that only Republicans can come and then you can use your badass -jedi-knight ways to bring them away from the darkside.

    Probably not.

    But it sure as hell explains why folks weren’t singing with us on Monday night.

    IN CLOSING, I WANT TO POSE THE QUESTION, DIRECTLY AND SINCERELY TO PEARL JAM FANS: If you oppose the political opinions of the band, what else then does this band do to inspire you to spend $80.00 on a ticket? Is it really just beats and notes? If it is, I think you’re missing out.

    Much respect – and thanks – and praise – to the Tuesday night crowd who for representing the Bay Area and Rock and Roll in much more appropriate fashion.

    And much thanks to you “Ed et. al.” Keep kicking ass. Please.

    ds
    Sorry, i missed this thread till now. It would be a big loss.
    Thanks for these words.
    I agree, when U say:
    -Ticketmaster and the high-price of tickets now
    -about Ed's convictions.
    But - here are many people who don't care if Ed prefer Obama or Clinton- i live many miles farther - this has no meaning for me. Many people just want to listen the music - i have my favourite singer in my country (he already died a few years ago and for me and many ore was better voice of freedom than Ed ever), with who i share my convictions, but music-sorry-i prefer PJ.
    So, please, don't put PJ to a political-music-bag-only.

    Anyway - I like this " Wait, maybe that’s the idea… make the tickets expensive so that only Republicans can come and then you can use your badass -jedi-knight ways to bring them away from the darkside". Wow, that was tough, but not without right somehow
    Not 10c member? Have sth to say? write to me - I'll put it on the forum
    halszka123@op.pl
  • slightofjeffslightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    "
    I have been genuinely curious about this too. In the end, I'm happy to enjoy the shows along with conservative/Republican fans. I'm not saying their positions are necessarily poorly reasoned or casually held. But Ed sings about some powerful truths. Who better to hear them?
    "

    I absolutely agree with you. I wrote this post on the heels of seeing a show - IN BERKELEY - where folks couldn't find a way to sing an antiwar song. And I was really, really pissed about it. I really want these folks to hear Ed's message, but I also want to enjoy the show. I guess I'll just sing even louder next time... some how....

    Onto the next fella...

    "
    As for the "how can you be conservative and like Pearl Jam" argument ... it's tired and it's played out and it shows absolutely no understanding of conservatism.

    Ed writes songs about love and lost love, suicide, abused children, the plight of the homeless. And only liberals can like them, apparently, because conservatives are for hate, abusing kids, and keeping people homeless.

    For every song you can name that is blatantly anti-Bush or anti-republican, I can name 10 that aren't.

    I'm supposed to not like Wishlist, Off He Goes, Black, Thumbing My Way, Faithfull, Rearviewmirror, Elderly Woman, Alive and Breath ... just because of Bushleaguer?
    "

    I guess I don't read enough of these message boards, but it's not played out. I have posed this question three different times on the boards in the last two years and nobody has made a response.

    I have to hand it to you for taking a good swing at it. The effort you have put into this reponse shows me that you are passionate about the band and you make a good argument.

    Although I don't agree with you, it makes me somewhat content to agree to disagree with you. And I appreciate that greatly.

    Here's hoping you listen to the other songs too, brother.

    You correctly bring up some very important and relevant Pearl Jam themes: abused children, homeless, suicide

    The question that I pose is which party in office is cutting the social programs to assist these people, while at the same time providing the largest tax cuts in history to the wealthiest 5% of Americans?

    "
    I should sing loudly for an anti-war song, even if I support the mission?
    "
    No. But it again begs the question, why are you at the show? Spending $80 to see an artist in which you love half the songs and have no feeling for the other half... is weird to me.


    "
    It almost makes me wonder: If Ed had unfurled a McCain banner, would you have stood and applauded?
    "

    NO. BUT if Ed had done this, I would have listened to his reasoning. And, if, in the end, I disagreed with him, I probably would have great trouble listening to him in the future.

    There is a reason I don't like Ted Nugent, Brittany Spears and The Hills.

    But this never going to happen because at the heart of the vast majority of of the songs Eddie Vedder writes is an angry, and beautiful, message of hope for human progress.

    It is a message that I believe has a little to do with the Republican Party of today as peace, historic wisdom, global warming awareness, evolution, Abraham Lincoln and the true teachings of Jesus himself.

    I want to conclude on a positive note. I really appreciate your response to my first post and would welcome a response to this one.

    I was the fella you quoted extensively above. let me first say that, after re-reading what I wrote, it might have been a tad over the top. I think I was having a bad day.

    I just get so put off by the notion that just because I disagree with ed/ on *some* issues, I can't appreciate his poetry. I am a writer, first and foremost, and when I first got into this band, all those years ago, it was because of this man's way with words.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • slightofjeffslightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    I can see some of your points...but not this one. How...after all this time can you support this mission?

    I should probably clarify ... and this point, it's patently obvious that we were sold a bill of goods going into Iraq. That won't change, even if the best-case scenario -- two actual Middle Eastern democracies flanking Iran -- actually comes to fruition.

    I'm more in the camp of, "We probably shouldn't have been there in the first place, but it's too late to back out now."

    Moe specifically regarding the "No More" war song ... it just seems naive to me. Yes, "No More War" is a great slogan ... but it doesn't seem too realistic. War is going to happen whether or not we pull out of Iraq (we weren't in Iraq on 9/11, right?) ... might as well sing "No More Tornadoes" or "No More Hurricanes."

    Anyway, any further than that, and this thread would belong on the MT ... my overall point, directed to the original post was: Why should I feel compelled to sing along to a song when I don't agree with the premise? It doesn't matter what the song, or what the premise.

    Like I said, I'm not debating Ed's right to sing the song. And, unlike some folks on the '03 tour, I'm not going to stoop to actually *booing* it. He's free to sing his song, and I'm free to sit there, listening respectfully ... right?
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • slightofjeffslightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    acutejam wrote:
    May politics always be your worst nightmare. I have much more personal and yes, larger and perhaps self-centered issues, on my mind as anyone in middle age with parents getting old, spouses, kids, friends ... things fall apart. I know, regardless of politics, I speak for a VAST majorty of Pearl Jam fans.

    But I'm glad you're passionate about this topic, Left, it'll make this a bit easier to explain. I think first and foremost humans are emotional, passionate beasts -- politics comes a distant runner-up. But we may debate the full and true role of politics in our lives. ("We" may, I won't....)

    We can also debate the full and true role of emotions in our lives. I came to Ed's show, the Bay Area trifecta on my hard-earned dimes from the "mill," in particular for the emotional side, the beauty and sadness of these songs of Love/Loss/Life/Joy. To enjoy the art.

    Yes, I giggled at Hail to the State, a nice updated version I could empathize with, not nesc relate to, but I could put myself in Ed's and your's shoes and see the beauty of that song. I wonder if you would struggle to do the same for me, put yourself in my shoes ... Trust me, you would not want to. Sorry to be obtuse, i will not relate the pain I'm in. I will not cut that vein and bleed for you. I do not need your pity, your sorrow, or your support. Rest assured, I am an Island of Pain.

    Ansel Adams said: Every photo has at least two people in it -- the photographer, and the viewer. I do not go to Pearl Jam or Eddie shows for the former, I didn't have Eddie's life, I don't have his politics, I have mine. But I can share his sorrows, his blues, his rage, they resonate -- I go to shows for what they mean to me, for the viewer. For a bit of a cry ("I'm sad, and I'm taking you down with me!" - Ed, Santa Cruz). Some laughs. And to rock, the joy of rocking out, the joy of this Western Civilization-created art. It is ours uniquely. And hopefully, for a few moments, to forget about these things in my 42 years of experience that make me sad, make me hurt, make me rage. ("Teenage death songs have been really good for us" - Ed.) Yes, to embrace those things during some songs and let them pour out, and in other places, to forget ... Please dear god, just to forget for five minutes.

    I wonder if YOU are missing out on a lot -- something much more essential to the human experience of this world than mere politics. I think you've merely overlooked it in your posts. You sound in touch with your emotions.

    I appreciate Ed for making a stand with his Mic, for pointing us to useful sources of knowledge, for enlightening us -- but no, I don't share all his views. Rock and Roll offers little to me for political inspiration, not "nothing" but yes, "little." I don't read news stories or ingest sound-bites, I read books and essays. It's a nice escape for me.

    And no, I do not take the dire straights our world is in lightly. I look at a run-down California mismanaged by a 30-year Democrat stranglehold on legislature, and I squirrel away every penny I can for private school for my kids. I look at Democrats in Congress and know it's just words, they could end funding of the war today, they really could, I could point you to the procedures they don't seem to want to share with their voters. And more so, I look to a world, where honestly, you and I have far less differences, than the politics of some very sad countries.

    I believe the parents of kids in Venezuela, in Egypt, in North Korea, in Thailand, in Serbia, in Russia, in Iran, Iraq and Saudi Arabia -- all parents want the same things for their kids. A better life than they had. I'm quite thankful I'm in a country where I can make my voice heard to the govt and try to make that happen. I do not hate the parents of those kids in those countries (I'll reserve judgement on Palestinians for the time-being) -- but I do seeth at those governments. I do not take this lightly. Thank you.

    So I would offer that you let me be and enjoy my shows of emotions. What sounds more truthful to you: that these songs are about the Politics of Emotions? Or are some, (vast majority, please, you jest) about the Emotions of Politics. Art is Emotions. It is to evoke an emotional response, a personal interpretation, something personal.

    So let's just see who crashed whose show on Monday, shall we?

    SONGS OF POLITICS
    Dead Man Walking (and what a beautifully emotional song!)
    Here's to the State
    Society -- (kinda?)
    No More

    SONGS OF LOVE/LOSS/LIFE/JOY
    Walking the Cow
    Around the Bend
    I Am Mine
    I'm Open
    Man of The Hour
    Setting Forth
    Guaranteed
    No Ceiling
    Far Behind
    Millworker -- (ok, one line, never met the man whose name is on the label, u want that!? the general grind of common man overall? Again with Ansel, we can see it how we want to.)
    Goodbye
    Satellite !!!
    Driftin
    You've Got to Hide Your Love Away
    Trouble
    If you Want to Sing Out, Sing Out
    Parting Ways
    Forever Young
    Growin' Up
    Porch
    Lukin
    Arc (sorry, u can't have this one)
    Hard Sun

    And Yes, I will take "Throw Your Arms Around Me" any day over "Here's to the State." I felt robbed, but yes, i knew where i was, willingly. Heck, I'd have taken "Patriot" for both of us over State! And if you could, please do go through Pearl Jams entire catalogue and show me the VAST MAJORITY, this political side -- you make claims you may find hard pressed to support (but I will grant you, we may have very different views of where to draw that boundary of Life-v-Politics).

    Here I'll scratch a few off your list that have nothing to do with politics: Ten, VS., Vitalogy (maybe Not for You, I'd like to hear), No Code, Yield, Binaural (except: Evacuation,Insignificance,Soon Forget perhaps?) and then, THEN yes, they begin to add some politics to their repertoire.

    In my opinion ... but I'm open to yours.

    Holy shit. Of every post that has ever been written on this board ... I wish I had written this one. This is pretty much what I meant by my earlier post ... please disregard that one and read this one.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • Since my original post a week ago, I find myself a more enlightened fan.
    A soldier who returned home safe from the war has responded to this post, people who disagree with me have responded to this post, and recently a spirited fellow from Poland even responded to this post. This is truly amazing. I find myself spending more time than I care to admit reading this thread and looking for updates, but I believe it has not been time wasted.

    Acutejam, you deserve major kudos. I posed a tough, evasive question. You answered it – with a great deal of thought and compassion - and I am thankful for it.

    Although I still disagree with things you have said… therefore our debate, although thankfully it does not rage on, it continues.

    Here we go. Let’s try to enjoy it.


    “May politics always be your worst nightmare. I have much more personal and yes, larger and perhaps self-centered issues, on my mind as anyone in middle age with parents getting old, spouses, kids, friends ... things fall apart. I know, regardless of politics, I speak for a VAST majorty of Pearl Jam fans. But I'm glad you're passionate about this topic, Left, it'll make this a bit easier to explain. I think first and foremost humans are emotional, passionate beasts -- politics comes a distant runner-up. But we may debate the full and true role of politics in our lives. ("We" may, I won't....) We can also debate the full and true role of emotions in our lives. I came to Ed's show, the Bay Area trifecta on my hard-earned dimes from the "mill," in particular for the emotional side, the beauty and sadness of these songs of Love/Loss/Life/Joy. To enjoy the art.” acutejam

    Beautiful, my friend. No disagreement here.


    “Ansel Adams said: Every photo has at least two people in it -- the photographer, and the viewer. I do not go to Pearl Jam or Eddie shows for the former, I didn't have Eddie's life, I don't have his politics, I have mine. But I can share his sorrows, his blues, his rage, they resonate -- I go to shows for what they mean to me, for the viewer. For a bit of a cry ("I'm sad, and I'm taking you down with me!" - Ed, Santa Cruz). Some laughs. And to rock, the joy of rocking out, the joy of this Western Civilization-created art.” acutejam

    AMEN!


    “It is ours uniquely. And hopefully, for a few moments, to forget about these things in my 42 years of experience that make me sad, make me hurt, make me rage. ("Teenage death songs have been really good for us" - Ed.) Yes, to embrace those things during some songs and let them pour out, and in other places, to forget ... Please dear god, just to forget for five minutes.” acutejam

    My concert experience is different. I go to shows to make the present tangible and my outrage sane. Ed’s voice, to me, is like a knife cutting through bullshit.

    Ed looks at things and he says:
    How the fuck can things be this way?

    But he leaves it to us to answer the question:
    How do we unfuck it all?

    But the coolest part about it is somehow – maybe it’s Mike and Stone’s guitar, maybe it’s Jeff’s bass, Matt’s drums and the mighty Boom’s organs, maybe it’s the edge in Ed’s voice – I get fired up and inspired TO DO SOMETHING.

    Not to escape, my friend. Not to escape. But to hit my problems head on, without fear and to do my damnedest to fix them. And if, at the end of the day, I fail… then damn it, I tried and I’m a better person for it.

    And therein lies the magic of Rock and Roll and Pearl Jam… for me at least.


    “So I would offer that you let me be and enjoy my shows of emotions. What sounds more truthful to you: that these songs are about the Politics of Emotions? Or are some, (vast majority, please, you jest) about the Emotions of Politics. Art is Emotions. It is to evoke an emotional response, a personal interpretation, something personal.” acutejam

    Again you pose some excellent questions and thoughts. I will do my best to respond.

    You are correct in pointing out that vast majority of Pearl Jam prose do not find their root in the mess of politics, but rather the human experience. I do not believe my prior comments are contrary to that.

    “…at the heart of the vast majority of of the songs Eddie Vedder writes is an angry, and beautiful, message of hope for human progress. It is a message that I believe has a little to do with the Republican Party of today as peace, historic wisdom, global warming awareness, evolution, Abraham Lincoln and the true teachings of Jesus himself.” me

    The connection I make is that I look at the problems, the sorrow, the pain – on the most general and visceral level – and I say, first, what can I do to fix myself and, second, what can I do to help others. The music is the motion of discovery and courage to progress from one cycle to the next.

    Politics comes into play because based on my own experiences, I am certain that there exists a large number of Americans who live as if these two things are mutually exclusive. I believe that one emerges from adolescence when they realize these goals are one in the same.


    “I wonder if YOU are missing out on a lot -- something much more essential to the human experience of this world than mere politics. I think you've merely overlooked it in your posts. You sound in touch with your emotions.” acutejam

    It’s Ed who, in his acceptance of SIMA Environmentalist of The Year Award -and I am paraphrasing grotesquely here- stated how important it was to get out and surf in the waters you work to protect.

    It is not an easy balance, but I believe all are better who strive for it.
    Plus, I got to believe the water feels better on his skin – both literally and spiritually- when he knows he has done everything in his power to protect it.


    “And no, I do not take the dire straights our world is in lightly. I look at a run-down California mismanaged by a 30-year Democrat stranglehold on legislature, and I squirrel away every penny I can for private school for my kids. I look at Democrats in Congress and know it's just words, they could end funding of the war today, they really could, I could point you to the procedures they don't seem to want to share with their voters.” acutejam

    Brother, this is where I depart from my happy place with you. I worked in the public schools system for almost ten years. You are wrong to think it was the Democrats that ran it into ruins. At every level, local, state and national – every battle I ever had to fight was against Republicans. I am not saying Democrats are the answer, but to blame them for bankrupting the system is just not an accurate statement. I left teaching because I could not afford to raise my family on a teacher’s salary. I say this with every bit of knowledge and experience in my body: Although you are correct in asserting that Democrats are not blameless, it most certainly was not their fault.



    “So let's just see who crashed whose show on Monday, shall we?” acutejam

    I agree with most of your list. But I would come back to my point of what do these songs inspire you to DO?

    In the 90s the band was such raw emotion, totally charged, real human experience. In the last seven and half years, the songs the band has been writing and performing have been much more specific in their charge.
    Ed, himself, has asked, “What can I do to fix myself?”

    Hell, I was at Golden Gate park.
    The ENTIRE BAND had to ask, “what can we do to fix ourselves” after that…

    And they did.
    And now they are doing everything they can to do right by humanity.

    I for one am inspired.
    And I am very proud to be a fan for this reason above all others.
    "What chance does Gotham have when the good people do nothing?"
  • Some addons to your setlist...
    These ones motivate me politically:

    I am Mine
    “And the feeling that gets left behind… Oh the innocence broken with lies”

    Man of the Hour
    “Tidal waves don’t beg forgiveness crash and on their way”

    Guaranteed
    …you’ve got to be kidding me…

    Millworker
    …Labor movement. Listen to it…

    Porch
    … start paying attention, break your comfort zone and do something(!), it feels good…

    (!) = badass guitar
    "What chance does Gotham have when the good people do nothing?"
  • This is my 100th post, so I might as well make it a memorable one.
    Just want to let you all know I might disappear rather suddenly for a while.

    My wife is expecting our second child within the week.

    Please don't let that impair or detract from your criticisms of me or the focus of this thread.

    Until then I plan on following along with all possible interest.

    Ideally, after I take "my leave", I would hope to log on in a week and see this thing hasn't disappeared into the bowels of the "Given to Fly" folder. Heck, maybe even back up on the "Words and Music... Communication" page where I believe it belongs.

    Thanks to all of you for taking the time to read and respond.
    ds
    "What chance does Gotham have when the good people do nothing?"
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