Shipping may have been $3 but don't forget the costs of shipping materials (which are very good) and the cost of labor to package them up. $9 seems fair to me.
Packing and preparing a box, when it's a high-demand and typically single-SKU as in the case of 9 out of 10 pre-orders, should be roughly 2 minutes. Insert the record, tape the box. Migrating shipping information and printing and affixing the sticker is another 2 minutes (assuming Ten Club is archaic and manually putting shipping information in for orders). Add another minute for fluff. An average warehouse worker receives a salary of $11.00 per hour in Seattle, and this order has then used 5/60 minutes = 1/12th of $11.00 = $0.91.
Shipping materials should be no more than $1.00 per order, or the Ten Club is suboptimal on packing materials.
$3.00 + $0.91 + $1.00 = $4.91 = 83% markup if the total cost is $9.00. As a consumer it might hurt to hear this, but this is within reason for an eCommerce transaction with a low dollar shipping cost. Also, typically companies will tier the markup such that high dollar value shipping costs are marked up less.
I'd venture a guess that they're only breaking even when you factor in warehouse inefficiencies, poorly negotiated shipping rates, the fact that it might not be a dedicated warehouse worker packing boxes, the fact that the salary of the person packing boxes is likely higher, time where they aren't shipping or receiving, etc. There are too many factors, and even this basic calculation shows they are calculating rates within reason (IMO).
Right or wrong, people have to remember that 10C is a business and needs to operate as one. They were losing money for YEARS (believe it or not) during the height of the band's popularity. The band was raking in tons of cash so either no one card or no one noticed that 10C was bleeding cash or perhaps the people running things back then simply didn't have the same type of experience Tim does. Regardless, 10C now generates a profit as any sound business aims to. The band members earn their living playing shows. 10C earns the band the opportunity to manage their operation on their own terms. This costs money. I've got a 10,000 square foot warehouse and I'm paying ~CDN$37,000 (US$27,800) in property taxes alone this year.
To quote the 10C from Newsletter #8: "Please understand we have a lot of members and it is very hard to please everybody. If you are one of those unhappy people...please call 1-900-IDN-TCAR."
"Me knowing the truth, I can not concur."
1996: Toronto - 1998: Chicago, Montreal, Barrie - 2000: Montreal, Toronto - 2002: Seattle X2 (Key Arena) - 2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal, Seattle (Benaroya Hall) - 2004: Reading, Toledo, Grand Rapids - 2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Quebec City - 2006: Toronto X2, Albany, Hartford, Grand Rapids, Cleveland - 2007: Chicago (Vic Theatre) - 2008: NYC X2, Hartford, Mansfield X2 - 2009: Toronto, Chicago X2, Seattle X2, Philadelphia X4 - 2010: Columbus, Noblesville, Cleveland, Buffalo, Hartford - 2011: Montreal, Toronto X2, Ottawa, Hamilton - 2012: Missoula - 2013: London, Chicago, Buffalo, Hartford - 2014: Detroit, Moline - 2015: NYC (Global Citizen Festival) - 2016: Greenville, Toronto X2, Chicago 1 - 2017: Brooklyn (RRHOF Induction) - 2018: Chicago 1, Boston 1 - 2022: Fresno, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto, NYC, Camden - 2023: St. Paul X2, Austin X2 - 2024: Vancouver X2, Portland, Sacramento, Noblesville, Philadelphia X2, Baltimore
100 Pacer, please stop defending fraud. The issue is not the price, I knew what that was when I ordered. The issue is the invoice says they are going to send via Mail Innovations Standard Domestic Shipping but they actually sent it via media mail. There is no logical defense against this practice.
100 Pacer, please stop defending fraud. The issue is not the price, I knew what that was when I ordered. The issue is the invoice says they are going to send via Mail Innovations Standard Domestic Shipping but they actually sent it via media mail. There is no logical defense against this practice.
You should e-mail 10c directly with your feedback, or better yet, give them a call on Monday and see what they have to say.
I did email them. I noted it in the email I had to send back when I sent my damaged album back, which by the way would most likely have not been damaged if they wouldn't have used the cheapest possible shipping method. I bet they lose more money on damaged returns than they save on shitty shipping. I've had three of the albums I've ordered come to me damaged. I'm not the only one every time they release an album all kinds of people receive damaged merchandise. It's bad business all around, from the postage fraud to the poor customer service, but having a monopoly they can get by with it.
Tim please read the comments before posting. It's not about price it's about being changed for one type of shipping and them using another. It's about committing fraud and being unethical.
Sarava it's unfortunate that your apathy causes you to not care when you are getting fucked. Again this is not about cost it's about promising one type of shipping then using another.
If the additional $5 hurts your wallet that much, you probably shouldn't be buying this stuff to begin with.
Exactly.
$8.99 to pack and ship a record across the country is pretty damn cheap. Don't believe me, drive or fly there and pick it up yourself. Then tell me that $8.99 is gouging.
Also, why do folks always pin the blame on packages being beat up on the 10C? Maybe your mail carrier sucks and doesn't give a fuck. I spent enough time in distribution and logistics to know that some individuals really don't give a two shits when handling other people's property.
Also 8.99 to ship it across country isn't cheap because I just had to send it back to them and it cost me less than $4. They wouldn't have so many people blaming them if they didn't use media mail, even the postal clerk questioned me using media mail to send a package marked fragile, so they do deserve some of the blame.
Tim please read the comments before posting. It's not about price it's about being changed for one type of shipping and them using another. It's about committing fraud and being unethical.
I did. I just don't care about this enough to complain. Many bands and retailers do this. Its just not a big deal. If its the principle that bothers you stop buying from the band and if you want to right what's unjust there are bigger issues in the world to go after. In a way it is about the $5. If you didn't care about the $5 you wouldn't give a shit. And if its mainly the principle, its a minor thing to dog them about.
Why the lock jerparker you obviously didn't read the other comments. A lot of low moral people on this board since most seem to turn a blind eye to fraud.
I don't know if the cost is reasonable or not, but don't expect Amazon or Wal-Mart shipping costs for basically a mom and pop operation. Everyone hates the big corporations and loves the small business until they have to pay more for the small business product.
Jesus Christ it's not about the cost and the Pearl Jam franchise is not a mom and pop. Why do some people put them on a pedestal like they're infallible, they are just regular people.
Sarava it's unfortunate that your apathy causes you to not care when you are getting fucked. Again this is not about cost it's about promising one type of shipping then using another.
Who cares? As long as it gets here in a reasonable time and cost, then they can ship by horseback for all I fucking care.
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buck502000
Birthplace of GIBSON guitar Posts: 8,951
They tell you what the cost is upfront - if they stated the shipping fee would be one price and your showed another, that would be fraud. They could just increase the price of their products instead. It is very observant of you OP for noticing the fee discrepancy, but unfortunately, 10C did not lie about what the total cost of receiving your item would be. No harm, no foul in my book.
Jesus Christ it's not about the cost and the Pearl Jam franchise is not a mom and pop. Why do some people put them on a pedestal like they're infallible, they are just regular people.
The fan club is run by a mom and pop organization. The band may not be, but the fan club is.
Just a girl that doesn't give them a pass to commit fraud.
I agree. it's worse if you're a member in WA state. we get charged sales tax on top of any item we order. it sucks especially if you live in Seattle when the warehouse is right around the corner and we can't just go pick up our merch. and I don't mind paying shipping costs but except for exclusive Vault vinyl, I'm going to Easy Street Records for my PJ vinyl from now on (they're close w/ 10 Club) for example, the last 4 records I ordered from 10 Club were late AND I reminded them about then gasp! the packages started moving. If I don't reply re: why hasn't it moved...nothing happens. 2013- LB was a week late after street date Vault #3 (when they first started using UPS Mail innovations) went all the way down the west coast to AZ then back to WA after starting in WA. 2014- Vault #4, replied to shipping email in late Jan. and then it started moving...same shit 2015- Mad Season- Live at the Moore 1995, same as above just got my Sonic Evolution shipping email, wonder how long it will sit somewhere. can't wait for Vault #5 in late January!
U.S. / Canada
Buffalo 1996 Barrie Ontario 1998
Saratoga Springs 2000 Toronto Ontario 2000
Albany 2003 Toronto Ontario 2003
Buffalo 2003 Toronto Ontario 2005
Toledo 2004 London Ontario 2005
Seattle 2009 Vancouver B.C. 2011
Seattle 2013
and though I haven't ever had a problem w/ defects on merch or vinyl skips, another friend/member received several replacements over the years w/ their records.
at least 10 Club is good at honoring replacements. yet when we get our shipping tracking emails and it states it'll ship in 1-2 days, total bs. mine sits somewhere for about a week then I reply WTF?? then it moves...
Post edited by DischordVision on
U.S. / Canada
Buffalo 1996 Barrie Ontario 1998
Saratoga Springs 2000 Toronto Ontario 2000
Albany 2003 Toronto Ontario 2003
Buffalo 2003 Toronto Ontario 2005
Toledo 2004 London Ontario 2005
Seattle 2009 Vancouver B.C. 2011
Seattle 2013
Sarava it's unfortunate that your apathy causes you to not care when you are getting fucked. Again this is not about cost it's about promising one type of shipping then using another.
Why the lock jerparker you obviously didn't read the other comments. A lot of low moral people on this board since most seem to turn a blind eye to fraud.
Just because there are a number of us who happily order from PJ/10c and find no problem with how they handle OUR shipments (other than MI being terribly slow) doesn't mean that we are apathetic or of low morals. Name calling or judgment assumptions aren't really necessary. Just because there are a number of us here who don't agree with you doesn't mean you need to jump up and down in a temper tantrum over it.
You disagree with how your shipments are handled through 10c. As I stated before, you have choices. The choice is that you can either continue to order through 10c and BITCH ABOUT IT or you can order through other resources. Not everything will be available to you, but you will have received items via a different shipper and perhaps in a different package method. For items that aren't available to you, you can either find them from flippers on eBay or through a pop-up shop. Just please share with those individuals your shipping preferences and packaging needs so that it is clear from the beginning.
Saying you don't give a fuck is the definition of apathy. The low moral comment referred to the amount of people that think its OK to commit fraud. Every eBay auction I have participated in either as buyer or seller has clearly stated the shipping method just like 10 club but the difference is the ebayers honored the method they said they would ship. So you would be fine with paying for 2 day service but then being sent something via media mail.
Comments
- credit/debit transaction fees
- warehouse overhead (utilities, property tax, heating/cooling)
Right or wrong, people have to remember that 10C is a business and needs to operate as one. They were losing money for YEARS (believe it or not) during the height of the band's popularity. The band was raking in tons of cash so either no one card or no one noticed that 10C was bleeding cash or perhaps the people running things back then simply didn't have the same type of experience Tim does. Regardless, 10C now generates a profit as any sound business aims to. The band members earn their living playing shows. 10C earns the band the opportunity to manage their operation on their own terms. This costs money. I've got a 10,000 square foot warehouse and I'm paying ~CDN$37,000 (US$27,800) in property taxes alone this year.
"Me knowing the truth, I can not concur."
1996: Toronto - 1998: Chicago, Montreal, Barrie - 2000: Montreal, Toronto - 2002: Seattle X2 (Key Arena) - 2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal, Seattle (Benaroya Hall) - 2004: Reading, Toledo, Grand Rapids - 2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Quebec City - 2006: Toronto X2, Albany, Hartford, Grand Rapids, Cleveland - 2007: Chicago (Vic Theatre) - 2008: NYC X2, Hartford, Mansfield X2 - 2009: Toronto, Chicago X2, Seattle X2, Philadelphia X4 - 2010: Columbus, Noblesville, Cleveland, Buffalo, Hartford - 2011: Montreal, Toronto X2, Ottawa, Hamilton - 2012: Missoula - 2013: London, Chicago, Buffalo, Hartford - 2014: Detroit, Moline - 2015: NYC (Global Citizen Festival) - 2016: Greenville, Toronto X2, Chicago 1 - 2017: Brooklyn (RRHOF Induction) - 2018: Chicago 1, Boston 1 - 2022: Fresno, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto, NYC, Camden - 2023: St. Paul X2, Austin X2 - 2024: Vancouver X2, Portland, Sacramento, Noblesville, Philadelphia X2, Baltimore
$8.99 to pack and ship a record across the country is pretty damn cheap. Don't believe me, drive or fly there and pick it up yourself. Then tell me that $8.99 is gouging.
Also, why do folks always pin the blame on packages being beat up on the 10C? Maybe your mail carrier sucks and doesn't give a fuck. I spent enough time in distribution and logistics to know that some individuals really don't give a two shits when handling other people's property.
and I don't mind paying shipping costs but except for exclusive Vault vinyl, I'm going to Easy Street Records for my PJ vinyl from now on (they're close w/ 10 Club) for example, the last 4 records I ordered from 10 Club were late AND I reminded them about then gasp! the packages started moving. If I don't reply re: why hasn't it moved...nothing happens.
2013- LB was a week late after street date
Vault #3 (when they first started using UPS Mail innovations) went all the way down the west coast to AZ then back to WA after starting in WA.
2014- Vault #4, replied to shipping email in late Jan. and then it started moving...same shit
2015- Mad Season- Live at the Moore 1995, same as above
just got my Sonic Evolution shipping email, wonder how long it will sit somewhere.
can't wait for Vault #5 in late January!
at least 10 Club is good at honoring replacements.
yet when we get our shipping tracking emails and it states it'll ship in 1-2 days, total bs.
mine sits somewhere for about a week then I reply WTF?? then it moves...
You disagree with how your shipments are handled through 10c. As I stated before, you have choices. The choice is that you can either continue to order through 10c and BITCH ABOUT IT or you can order through other resources. Not everything will be available to you, but you will have received items via a different shipper and perhaps in a different package method. For items that aren't available to you, you can either find them from flippers on eBay or through a pop-up shop. Just please share with those individuals your shipping preferences and packaging needs so that it is clear from the beginning.
IBTL.
2016: Lexington and Wrigley 1