When it's all said and done...REM > PJ?

Wobbie

I could see it.

Much, much bigger body of work....and good!

Who Princess

Don't think I'll take the debate on who's better, but definitely one of my favorite bands. They had an amazing output. Hated that they split up. I always looked forward to their albums and miss hearing new stuff from them.

Wobbie

just watched "Perfect Square"....what a great concert.

when are we getting a pup?

Who Princess

imalive said:

when are we getting a pup?

Not soon enough! We go to pick one out probably the 16th, bring him home the next weekend.

brianlux

I wouldn't say so much:

"REM > PJ "

as I would:

"REM-->PJ".

The logical progression of great rock music.

(In verse.)

Of The Aggie

Both great bands although R.E.M. fell off a lot after Bill Berry left. I only like one of their post-Berry albums.

Hobbes

This thread never really took off.

I'd have to agree with Mr. Lux up there ^^^^^

2-feign-reluctance

No way & I love REM a lot.

JH6056

I am not going to judge who's bigger or greater. I will say though that for my personal experience I've seen more than 1500 concerts, and an REM one is in my top 5 ever. I've seen some epic PJ shows and they will always be one of my absolute fave live bands ever, but none of the 55+ PJ shows I've seen are in the top 5... possibly not even in the top 10. And I listen to REM more than PJ. But that is just my tastes... doesn't mean anyone is actually bigger or better than anyone else.

InHiding80

Nope but a great band in its own right and Murmur is the best debut album by and band ever.

Oh, and I echo Stipe's sentiments on Trump and Cruz. Fuck them.

Empty Glass

2-feign-reluctance said:

No way & I love REM a lot.

agree, Rob is senile

HesCalledDyer

I think it's a fair suggestion, could be debated either way.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Not a chance.

Wobbie

JH6056 said:

I am not going to judge who's bigger or greater. I will say though that for my personal experience I've seen more than 1500 concerts, and an REM one is in my top 5 ever. I've seen some epic PJ shows and they will always be one of my absolute fave live bands ever, but none of the 55+ PJ shows I've seen are in the top 5... possibly not even in the top 10. And I listen to REM more than PJ. But that is just my tastes... doesn't mean anyone is actually bigger or better than anyone else.

that's a shit load of concerts. as I said, that "perfect square" DVD is stellar.

FWIW, some of my top 10 concerts were not real rock "heavy weights"...warren zevon and george thorogood, to name a couple.

I'm still thinking, overall, REM > PJ.

tino_11

Absolutely nowhere near from my point of view. PJ's music connects with me in a way that REM never could.

But how general music fans view things, maybe they would consider REM greater. Who knows? I quite like the fact the media overlooks PJ a lot of the time.

JH6056

imalive said:

JH6056 said:

I am not going to judge who's bigger or greater. I will say though that for my personal experience I've seen more than 1500 concerts, and an REM one is in my top 5 ever. I've seen some epic PJ shows and they will always be one of my absolute fave live bands ever, but none of the 55+ PJ shows I've seen are in the top 5... possibly not even in the top 10. And I listen to REM more than PJ. But that is just my tastes... doesn't mean anyone is actually bigger or better than anyone else.

that's a shit load of concerts. as I said, that "perfect square" DVD is stellar.

FWIW, some of my top 10 concerts were not real rock "heavy weights"...warren zevon and george thorogood, to name a couple.

I'm still thinking, overall, REM > PJ.

The bolded is a really interesting point. After posting this yesterday I tried to think through what my top 10 would be, and 2 of them are definitely absolutely not "heavyweights" in rock by a long shot: Cassandra Wilson (jazz) and Uncle Tupelo (which spawned Wilco of course).

These were the top 10 of those 1500 as far as I can remember, although now that I think of it Patti Smith would need to be in here somewhere too:

1. Clash at Bonds '81
2. Clash at Asbury Park '82
3. REM at Radio City '87
4. Radiohead at Suffolk Downs Racetrack '01
5. U2 Unforgettable Fire tour Philly Spectrum '85
6. Uncle Tupelo, Liberty Lunch, SXSW Austin '91 (the headlining band cut the lights on them and claimed there was a "light problem", so UT played in the dark with their roadie going back and forth between Jay Farrar and Jeff Tweedy with a flashlight. And it was fucking incredible! A non-mosher myself, I moshed and ran around and freaked out the whole show, and I'd never heard UT before...)
7. Cassandra Wilson Blue Light Til Dawn Fairmont Hotel, San Francisco 1994
8. Fugees, (with Spearhead, Ben Harper & Innocent Criminals): Tramps, 9/27/96 (Day before first Randalls Island PJ for those paying attention)
9. Pearl Jam (with Iggy Pop & Mudhoney), 8/28/98 E. Rutherford E Center (I was actually at the MSG 9/11/98 incredible show too, which was no doubt one of the most mindblowing PJ experiences I've had. But this Philly show was really special to me so it stands out more for me)
10. Rolling Stones, Tattoo You, Madison Sq. Garden FRONT ROW! 11/13/81 (or 11/12/81)
Patti Smith, Bowery Ballroom (can't remember the year), tied with one of these entries

A really cool thing about this "internet thingy" is that I was able to look up setlists for all of those first 5 shows, and I copied those into my list I made yesterday too. Hot damn, what I would do with a time machine... those are some blisteringly awesome setlists!!!

Nami

no

PJ_Soul

It's all just a matter of taste... But it's not even close for me. Pearl Jam is light years better in my mind. I love R.E.M., but I'm not IN love with them. Actually, love is probably too strong a word. I like like them.

Well, maybe not even. They probably don't even crack my top 20 TBH (or maybe they sqeak in). But still... great band. I think I probably need to go back to R.E.M. a bit in any case. I let them kind of drop off my radar. I haven't bothered to pick up many of their records yet, so haven't listened to them much at all for a very long time. They could probably move up my list if I simply got back into them... but I've been focusing on other bands. There is too much music - I'm finding it unmanageable, haha.

lolobugg

YES. R.E.M. does edge out PJ in my mind. It is the whole "southern-ness" to their early albums that I relate to slightly more than PJ. Reminds me of my childhood. Stipe is a better lyricist/frontman as well. sorry Ed

northerndragon

This thread, like the OP is just wrong.

2-feign-reluctance

PJ.

REM is amazing live. That's for sure. One of the best shows I've ever seen (Monster tour 1995 and again in 1998 I think).

lolobugg

2-feign-reluctance said:

PJ.

REM is amazing live. That's for sure. One of the best shows I've ever seen (Monster tour 1995 and again in 1998 I think).

PJ play music... awesome live.
REM put on a "show". Michael Stipe is one of the best frontmen of all time.
I saw the bastard perform a 2 hour concert wearing a 3 piece suit in 100 degree weather.
sad that they are gone but I think they hung it up at the right time.

DewieCox

I'm not all that familiar with REMs catalog or success as a touring act, but I believe they've been infinitely more influential than PJ has and that carries quite a bit of weight with me.

Trying to remove myself from my familiarity with PJ's success on a mainstream level and I think REM had a few more well known songs, but not sure how that translates to album sales. I know Monster was big and Automatic had the songs they crossed them over into the mainstream so they can't be too far behind PJ on that front, if at all.

Obviously, I'm more of a PJ fan, but I think REM might edge them out overall.

JH6056

Interesting points Dewie... it's hard to tease out "influence" and "impact". PJ was part of a scene that had a huge impact at it's pinnacle (early 90s). But REM as a band and a sound and specific performers had much more of an influence on other musicians over time. I can think of way more influential, highly-respected musicians that cite REM as an inspiration and influence than PJ, and I don't think that's just a "cool" thing (i.e. it's cooler to cite REM than PJ in some critical circles). I think REM was groundbreaking, their sound and their live shows and their ways of working as a band. Not getting a new drummer when Bill Berry left... that was a big deal, as were other moves they made.

My bias aside about who was actually a better overall band, I do think REM was also just more influential and impactful in terms of creating a new genre. Pearl Jam didn't create their genre alone, there were other bands at the time that all fed into it, although PJ and Nirvana were far and away the most famous and most successful (and I'd say best as well, although there were so many other amazing ones like Screaming Trees). But REM... there wasn't any other band like them or compared with them when they were rising up. Ed is a phenomenal songwriter, and so are Stipe and other songwriters in REM (because didn't everyone but Peter Buck write lyrics?).

PJ_Soul

I thought the question was just supposed to be about our own personal feelings about the bands. If we're talking who is more influential, then yes, R.E.M. easily comes out on top. Of course, R.E.M. formed in 1980. Give PJ another 10 years, and maybe they will be considered more influential than they are now, who knows. On the other hand, maybe not. It's true that PJ isn't a groundbreaking band musically. They are unique, but not groundbreaking.

kce8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJ46Y6xt2pU

PJ_Soul

.

dankind

PJ_Soul said:

.

Oh, no!

Not you, too!

buck502000

I drink beer - Pearl Jam - someday I'll drink more wine - REM

pljam

I wipe my shoes - REM
I walk a thousand golden miles - PEARL JAM

TL170678

Monster is the only REM album I really like all the way through... The guitar is sick...
Saying that I think Pearl Jam`s B-sides are better than REM`s career.