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PJfanwillneverleave1PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
edited December 2015 in A Moving Train
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Post edited by PJfanwillneverleave1 on

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  • rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    "Ultra orthodox " says it all.Regardless wether the dude was Jew,Muslim,Christian this is just another reason Religion is a joke.Another cool aid drinker.
    Exclusion,killing,hatred ! shit who wouldn't want some of that action.
  • PJfanwillneverleave1PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    edited December 2015
    rr165892 said:

    "Ultra orthodox " says it all.Regardless wether the dude was Jew,Muslim,Christian this is just another reason Religion is a joke.Another cool aid drinker.
    Exclusion,killing,hatred ! shit who wouldn't want some of that action.

    .
    Post edited by PJfanwillneverleave1 on
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,594
    edited July 2015
    I can respect your beliefs to a point. But it is YOU that must plan and be inconvenienced not I.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    Plenty of that here.
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    If he had been moved beside me... I would have stood up and said aloud, "Change!" And demanded a change for not wanting to sit beside a freaking idiot.

    The people on the plane played this very poorly. Sit down, shut up, or get the f**k off the plane shithead.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    Put this idiot in the cargo bay next time.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    Reminds me of the Orthodox temple in London I went to for a Bat Mitzvah years ago.

    All us ladies had to sit separately from the men. The men who were there to celebrate a young woman's rite of passage.

    Amazing - you're OK with fucking us, marrying us, carrying your children...but not sitting next to us?
  • SmellymanSmellyman Posts: 4,524
    Religion is so messed up.
  • PJfanwillneverleave1PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    edited December 2015
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    If he had been moved beside me... I would have stood up and said aloud, "Change!" And demanded a change for not wanting to sit beside a freaking idiot.

    .
    Post edited by PJfanwillneverleave1 on
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    Smellyman said:

    Religion is so messed up.

    It sure can be (but not always).
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,954
    edited July 2015
    If the airline had asked the woman to move, then there would be a real story here.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJfanwillneverleave1PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    edited December 2015
    PJ_Soul said:

    If the airline had asked the woman to move, then there would be a real story here.

    .
    Post edited by PJfanwillneverleave1 on
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,954
    edited July 2015
    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    If the airline had asked the woman to move, then there would be a real story here.

    There is a story here.
    This is how it starts, a little here, a little there until it is accepted.
    Fuck that.
    I totally agree with that theory generally when it comes equality issues. But hardcore fanatical Orthodox Jews aren't about to change anything. Not changing is basically the entire basis of their entire belief system. You may as well ask Christians to stop believing that Jesus died for their sins. Change in this context is absolutely not going to happen by the general public being mad. Any improvements in this case will only happen when their own offspring change their own practices within their religion.
    HOWEVER, if this woman's rights had been impinged upon, as they often are when religious beliefs affect women, I would be singing another tune, and very loudly. But that is not the case here. I have absolutely NO problem with some idiot not sitting beside a woman and sitting somewhere else. My issue would come if the woman herself was asked to move to accommodate the man.

    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJfanwillneverleave1PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    edited July 2015
    ^^^
    I am only stating that because of their interpersonal beliefs it is eroding away secular beliefs at a miniscule level (chipping away).
    Soon there will be rules on airline pamphlets stating - In accordance with our airline policy if you are asked to change seats to accommodate a persons religious beliefs you must or may be subject to fines and removal from aircraft at your expense.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,954
    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    ^^^
    I am only stating that because of their interpersonal beliefs it is eroding away secular beliefs at a miniscule level (chipping away).
    Soon there will be rules on airline pamphlets stating - In accordance with our airline policy if you are asked to change seats to accommodate a persons religious beliefs you must or may be subject to fines and removal from aircraft at your expense.

    But the airline never even considered moving this woman to accommodate a person's religious beliefs, did they?? I don't think there is any chipping away happening here at all.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJfanwillneverleave1PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    PJ_Soul said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    ^^^
    I am only stating that because of their interpersonal beliefs it is eroding away secular beliefs at a miniscule level (chipping away).
    Soon there will be rules on airline pamphlets stating - In accordance with our airline policy if you are asked to change seats to accommodate a persons religious beliefs you must or may be subject to fines and removal from aircraft at your expense.

    But the airline never even considered moving this woman to accommodate a person's religious beliefs, did they?? I don't think there is any chipping away happening here at all.
    I guess we see things differently.
    cheers
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,954
    edited July 2015
    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    ^^^
    I am only stating that because of their interpersonal beliefs it is eroding away secular beliefs at a miniscule level (chipping away).
    Soon there will be rules on airline pamphlets stating - In accordance with our airline policy if you are asked to change seats to accommodate a persons religious beliefs you must or may be subject to fines and removal from aircraft at your expense.

    But the airline never even considered moving this woman to accommodate a person's religious beliefs, did they?? I don't think there is any chipping away happening here at all.
    I guess we see things differently.
    cheers
    I guess. If the flight attendant had suggested that the woman move, then I'd be all over this incident. But since they didn't, and the woman actually wasn't put out at all, except for letting an Orthodox Jew offend her (and I would be offended too if it happened to me, although I wouldn't really want to sit next to someone from this faith myself, so wouldn't mind that much. I was on a flight once where there was an Orthodox Jew sitting across the isle from me, and even then it got a little annoying, because he kept having to get up and pray and do his leather strip wrapped around his arm thing and bob up and down and stuff in the aisle. It was distracting and annoying to have him doing that in such close quarters... but of course I didn't complain to him or anything. I figure he was just doing what he felt he had to do).
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJfanwillneverleave1PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    edited July 2015
    PJ_Soul said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    ^^^
    I am only stating that because of their interpersonal beliefs it is eroding away secular beliefs at a miniscule level (chipping away).
    Soon there will be rules on airline pamphlets stating - In accordance with our airline policy if you are asked to change seats to accommodate a persons religious beliefs you must or may be subject to fines and removal from aircraft at your expense.

    But the airline never even considered moving this woman to accommodate a person's religious beliefs, did they?? I don't think there is any chipping away happening here at all.
    I guess we see things differently.
    cheers
    I guess. If the flight attendant had suggested that the woman move, then I'd be all over this incident. But since they didn't, and the woman actually wasn't put out at all, except for letting an Orthodox Jew offend her (and I would be offended too if it happened to me, although I wouldn't really want to sit next to someone from this faith myself, so wouldn't mind that much. I was on a flight once where the was an Orthodox Jew sitting across the isle from me, and even then it got a little annoying, because he kept having to get up and pray and do his leather strip wrapped around his arm thing and bob up and down and stuff in the aisle. It was distracting and annoying to have him in such close quarters... but of course I didn't complain to him or anything. I figure he was just doing what he felt he had to do).
    People can pray 24/7 everywhere I don't care it does not bother me. That is who they are.
    I guess a point I am trying to make is that these people that won't sit beside women are running out of women to accommodate this. Now they are slowly having to answer for this religious belief shit. It has come full circle. "Oh you poor baby, don't want to sit beside a woman - shut the fuck up sir and here is your peanuts and warm coke".

    Post edited by PJfanwillneverleave1 on
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,954
    edited July 2015
    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    ^^^
    I am only stating that because of their interpersonal beliefs it is eroding away secular beliefs at a miniscule level (chipping away).
    Soon there will be rules on airline pamphlets stating - In accordance with our airline policy if you are asked to change seats to accommodate a persons religious beliefs you must or may be subject to fines and removal from aircraft at your expense.

    But the airline never even considered moving this woman to accommodate a person's religious beliefs, did they?? I don't think there is any chipping away happening here at all.
    I guess we see things differently.
    cheers
    I guess. If the flight attendant had suggested that the woman move, then I'd be all over this incident. But since they didn't, and the woman actually wasn't put out at all, except for letting an Orthodox Jew offend her (and I would be offended too if it happened to me, although I wouldn't really want to sit next to someone from this faith myself, so wouldn't mind that much. I was on a flight once where the was an Orthodox Jew sitting across the isle from me, and even then it got a little annoying, because he kept having to get up and pray and do his leather strip wrapped around his arm thing and bob up and down and stuff in the aisle. It was distracting and annoying to have him in such close quarters... but of course I didn't complain to him or anything. I figure he was just doing what he felt he had to do).
    People can pray 24/7 everywhere I don't care it does not bother me. That is who they are.
    I guess a point I am trying to make is that these people that won't sit beside women are running out of women to accommodate this. Now they are slowly having to answer for this religious belief shit. It has come full circle. "Oh you poor baby, don't want to sit beside a woman - shut the fuck up sir and here is your peanuts and warm coke".

    Yeah, people can pray 24/7 everywhere. I think it might bother you if some dude was standing a foot away from your face while he was doing it though, for long stretches of time, in the coach section of a plane, like happened with me.
    But you just made my point. That woman did NOT have to accommodate this. And if no one else had wanted to either, then the man would indeed have been told to either sit in his assigned seat or leave the plane.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJfanwillneverleave1PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    edited December 2015
    PJ_Soul said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    ^^^
    I am only stating that because of their interpersonal beliefs it is eroding away secular beliefs at a miniscule level (chipping away).
    Soon there will be rules on airline pamphlets stating - In accordance with our airline policy if you are asked to change seats to accommodate a persons religious beliefs you must or may be subject to fines and removal from aircraft at your expense.

    But the airline never even considered moving this woman to accommodate a person's religious beliefs, did they?? I don't think there is any chipping away happening here at all.
    I guess we see things differently.
    cheers
    I guess. If the flight attendant had suggested that the woman move, then I'd be all over this incident. But since they didn't, and the woman actually wasn't put out at all, except for letting an Orthodox Jew offend her (and I would be offended too if it happened to me, although I wouldn't really want to sit next to someone from this faith myself, so wouldn't mind that much. I was on a flight once where the was an Orthodox Jew sitting across the isle from me, and even then it got a little annoying, because he kept having to get up and pray and do his leather strip wrapped around his arm thing and bob up and down and stuff in the aisle. It was distracting and annoying to have him in such close quarters... but of course I didn't complain to him or anything. I figure he was just doing what he felt he had to do).
    People can pray 24/7 everywhere I don't care it does not bother me. That is who they are.
    I guess a point I am trying to make is that these people that won't sit beside women are running out of women to accommodate this. Now they are slowly having to answer for this religious belief shit. It has come full circle. "Oh you poor baby, don't want to sit beside a woman - shut the fuck up sir and here is your peanuts and warm coke".

    Yeah, people can pray 24/7 everywhere. I think it might bother you if some dude was standing a foot away from your face while he was doing it though, for long stretches of time, in the coach section of a plane, like happened with me.
    But you just made my point. That woman did NOT have to accommodate this. And if no one else had wanted to either, then the man would indeed have been told to either sit in his assigned seat or leave the plane.
    .
    Post edited by PJfanwillneverleave1 on
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,954
    But that someone else agreed to accommodate. They weren't made to. Unless they were required by the airline to switch seats, I don't see a problem. Zero tolerance for someone asking to trade seats doesn't really seem realistic to me. Don't get me wrong. As many here know, i have VERY strong feelings about the issue of inequality for women in religion. VERY. But this particular case... meh. No one was made to do anything, the offended woman didn't have to do anything.... I guess my outrage is saved for when religious beliefs (or men, or anyone or anything) impinges on women's rights and freedoms. That did not happen in this case, so I'm not really sure what to specifically be mad about. I mean, YES, I hate that any religion has these kinds of beliefs in the first place. It makes me sick. But I don't really get angry about such beliefs until they actually impact women in some way. Of course, if there were a conversation about these beliefs themselves and how they DO impact women, yeah, I'd be all over that. But the focus of this particular story is about a belief NOT impacting a woman....
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJfanwillneverleave1PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    edited December 2015
    .
    Post edited by PJfanwillneverleave1 on
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,594
    PJ_Soul said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    ^^^
    I am only stating that because of their interpersonal beliefs it is eroding away secular beliefs at a miniscule level (chipping away).
    Soon there will be rules on airline pamphlets stating - In accordance with our airline policy if you are asked to change seats to accommodate a persons religious beliefs you must or may be subject to fines and removal from aircraft at your expense.

    But the airline never even considered moving this woman to accommodate a person's religious beliefs, did they?? I don't think there is any chipping away happening here at all.
    I guess we see things differently.
    cheers
    I guess. If the flight attendant had suggested that the woman move, then I'd be all over this incident. But since they didn't, and the woman actually wasn't put out at all, except for letting an Orthodox Jew offend her (and I would be offended too if it happened to me, although I wouldn't really want to sit next to someone from this faith myself, so wouldn't mind that much. I was on a flight once where there was an Orthodox Jew sitting across the isle from me, and even then it got a little annoying, because he kept having to get up and pray and do his leather strip wrapped around his arm thing and bob up and down and stuff in the aisle. It was distracting and annoying to have him doing that in such close quarters... but of course I didn't complain to him or anything. I figure he was just doing what he felt he had to do).
    Soul, she WAS asked if she would. By staff.
    From the article

    em. 

    "I said, 'This man is refusing to sit next to me because I am a woman.' At that point, another man behind ... offered to switch with me and the airline attendant said, 'Would you be willing to move? and I said, 'Absolutely not. This is ridiculous,'" she said. "I was without words."

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,954
    edited July 2015
    mickeyrat said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    ^^^
    I am only stating that because of their interpersonal beliefs it is eroding away secular beliefs at a miniscule level (chipping away).
    Soon there will be rules on airline pamphlets stating - In accordance with our airline policy if you are asked to change seats to accommodate a persons religious beliefs you must or may be subject to fines and removal from aircraft at your expense.

    But the airline never even considered moving this woman to accommodate a person's religious beliefs, did they?? I don't think there is any chipping away happening here at all.
    I guess we see things differently.
    cheers
    I guess. If the flight attendant had suggested that the woman move, then I'd be all over this incident. But since they didn't, and the woman actually wasn't put out at all, except for letting an Orthodox Jew offend her (and I would be offended too if it happened to me, although I wouldn't really want to sit next to someone from this faith myself, so wouldn't mind that much. I was on a flight once where there was an Orthodox Jew sitting across the isle from me, and even then it got a little annoying, because he kept having to get up and pray and do his leather strip wrapped around his arm thing and bob up and down and stuff in the aisle. It was distracting and annoying to have him doing that in such close quarters... but of course I didn't complain to him or anything. I figure he was just doing what he felt he had to do).
    Soul, she WAS asked if she would. By staff.
    From the article

    em. 

    "I said, 'This man is refusing to sit next to me because I am a woman.' At that point, another man behind ... offered to switch with me and the airline attendant said, 'Would you be willing to move? and I said, 'Absolutely not. This is ridiculous,'" she said. "I was without words."

    Sorry, I meant asked as in, "please get put of your seat so this man can sit here. Thank you." Not "uhhh, are you willing to?? No? Kay." In other words, sje was under no obligation to move, and no one thought she was unreasonable for not.
    Anyway, I'm not defending the idea behind it. I'm just not finding the story rage inducing either, because the woman didn't have to move, said no and everyone agreed... i don't feel like her rights were stomped on and I don't feel like she was treated unfairly. Some dude was a jerk and it sounds like everyone found a resolution pretty quickly and diplomatically (whihc is ideal when you're on a plane). End of this particular story.

    But yeah, if this conversation were about the status of women and attitude of men in the Orthodox Jewish faith, I would be telling you that these fuckers make me sick to my stomach and so does their religious doctrine.

    Here is a story that is really about something, since we're on the topic of these bigoted extremist Orthodox Jews and their fucked up ideas in the name of God (i'd also have a word about their fucking criminal justice system, letting this man out so he could go back and repeat his hate crime):
    http://time.com/3979215/jerusalem-gay-pride-parade-stabbing/
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    PJ_Soul said:

    mickeyrat said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    ^^^
    I am only stating that because of their interpersonal beliefs it is eroding away secular beliefs at a miniscule level (chipping away).
    Soon there will be rules on airline pamphlets stating - In accordance with our airline policy if you are asked to change seats to accommodate a persons religious beliefs you must or may be subject to fines and removal from aircraft at your expense.

    But the airline never even considered moving this woman to accommodate a person's religious beliefs, did they?? I don't think there is any chipping away happening here at all.
    I guess we see things differently.
    cheers
    I guess. If the flight attendant had suggested that the woman move, then I'd be all over this incident. But since they didn't, and the woman actually wasn't put out at all, except for letting an Orthodox Jew offend her (and I would be offended too if it happened to me, although I wouldn't really want to sit next to someone from this faith myself, so wouldn't mind that much. I was on a flight once where there was an Orthodox Jew sitting across the isle from me, and even then it got a little annoying, because he kept having to get up and pray and do his leather strip wrapped around his arm thing and bob up and down and stuff in the aisle. It was distracting and annoying to have him doing that in such close quarters... but of course I didn't complain to him or anything. I figure he was just doing what he felt he had to do).
    Soul, she WAS asked if she would. By staff.
    From the article

    em. 

    "I said, 'This man is refusing to sit next to me because I am a woman.' At that point, another man behind ... offered to switch with me and the airline attendant said, 'Would you be willing to move? and I said, 'Absolutely not. This is ridiculous,'" she said. "I was without words."

    Sorry, I meant asked as in, "please get put of your seat so this man can sit here. Thank you." Not "uhhh, are you willing to?? No? Kay." In other words, sje was under no obligation to move, and no one thought she was unreasonable for not.
    Anyway, I'm not defending the idea behind it. I'm just not finding the story rage inducing either, because the woman didn't have to move, said no and everyone agreed... i don't feel like her rights were stomped on and I don't feel like she was treated unfairly. Some dude was a jerk and it sounds like everyone found a resolution pretty quickly and diplomatically (whihc is ideal when you're on a plane). End of this particular story.

    But yeah, if this conversation were about the status of women and attitude of men in the Orthodox Jewish faith, I would be telling you that these fuckers make me sick to my stomach and so does their religious doctrine.

    Here is a story that is really about something, since we're on the topic of these bigoted extremist Orthodox Jews and their fucked up ideas in the name of God (i'd also have a word about their fucking criminal justice system, letting this man out so he could go back and repeat his hate crime):
    http://time.com/3979215/jerusalem-gay-pride-parade-stabbing/
    Obviously, he cannot resist stabbing gay people.

    Lock him up for good (I actually prefer something different... but to remain on point I'll go with this).

    Maybe give him a mirror too... so he can look in it and say to himself, "Holy Christ. I never realized I looked like such a dork. What's wrong with me?"
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,954
    I doubt he would say "holy Christ" though. :lol:;)
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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