USA Patriot Act

dimitrispearljam

just read that ends today

brianlux

They want to revise it and call it "The Freedom Act". Freedom. I'm not sure what that word mean in modern day vernacular.

rgambs

brianlux said:

They want to revise it and call it "The Freedom Act". Freedom. I'm not sure what that word mean in modern day vernacular.

I'm starting to think it means "stop thinking".

jeffbr

Yup. Looks like Rand Paul killed the Patriot Act yesterday which killed some of the government's domestic spying / data collection. That was a good thing. But fear not, the statists won't let it completely die, and will pass a revised version with a little less frequent violation of our privacy.

He must be doing something right if he's pissed off the Obama administration and the GOP leadership.

Gern Blansten

Rand Paul hasn't done anything but cement his chances to 0% of ever being elected President.
It's a money grab for him...nothing more.

badbrains

Anyone thinks they're done spying on us, I got a couple bridges for sale.

Last-12-Exit

Gern Blansten said:

Rand Paul hasn't done anything but cement his chances to 0% of ever being elected President.
It's a money grab for him...nothing more.

You are correct about him not having a chance to win the presidency. But he didn't have a chance before this. I don't know how he's making money off this. (Unless you mean this is a quick publicity stunt. Which I'd disagree with.)

jeffbr

Gern Blansten said:

Rand Paul hasn't done anything but cement his chances to 0% of ever being elected President.
It's a money grab for him...nothing more.

He may not have a chance, but I'd rather he acted on principle, and that's what he's appeared to have done. He has probably shot himself in the foot with a lot of the hawks in the GOP, but he has been pretty consistent in his opposition to the Patriot Act. And your "hasn't done anything" comment is obviously hyperbole, since he actually did do something. He killed the act, and while it will come back in a different form, it will come back without some of the illegal data collection programs. So he did do something, and it was good.

jeffbr

badbrains said:

Anyone thinks they're done spying on us, I got a couple bridges for sale.

You got that right!

dimitrispearljam

badbrains said:

Anyone thinks they're done spying on us, I got a couple bridges for sale.

haha..u are so right my friend

Gern Blansten

He's fundraising off of it

jeffbr said:

Gern Blansten said:

Rand Paul hasn't done anything but cement his chances to 0% of ever being elected President.
It's a money grab for him...nothing more.

He may not have a chance, but I'd rather he acted on principle, and that's what he's appeared to have done. He has probably shot himself in the foot with a lot of the hawks in the GOP, but he has been pretty consistent in his opposition to the Patriot Act. And your "hasn't done anything" comment is obviously hyperbole, since he actually did do something. He killed the act, and while it will come back in a different form, it will come back without some of the illegal data collection programs. So he did do something, and it was good.

In my opinion it will be back in full force...virtually no changes.

Jason P

Good job by Rand. Not one other Republican or Democrat actually opposes the Patriot Act. There are some that may not approve of it, but they don't actually do anything to oppose it.

Seven years ago there was lots of hope in this forum that would change this law.

badbrains

Jason P said:

Good job by Rand. Not one other Republican or Democrat actually opposes the Patriot Act. There are some that may not approve of it, but they don't actually do anything to oppose it.

Seven years ago there was lots of hope in this forum that would change this law.

False hope

Jason P

badbrains said:

Jason P said:

Good job by Rand. Not one other Republican or Democrat actually opposes the Patriot Act. There are some that may not approve of it, but they don't actually do anything to oppose it.

Seven years ago there was lots of hope in this forum that would change this law.

False hope

Obama or Rand?

badbrains

Jason P said:

badbrains said:

Jason P said:

Good job by Rand. Not one other Republican or Democrat actually opposes the Patriot Act. There are some that may not approve of it, but they don't actually do anything to oppose it.

Seven years ago there was lots of hope in this forum that would change this law.

False hope

Obama or Rand?

Unfortunately, all of them Jay.

InHiding80

badbrains said:

Jason P said:

badbrains said:

Jason P said:

Good job by Rand. Not one other Republican or Democrat actually opposes the Patriot Act. There are some that may not approve of it, but they don't actually do anything to oppose it.

Seven years ago there was lots of hope in this forum that would change this law.

False hope

Obama or Rand?

Unfortunately, all of them Jay.

Both of them are pro Monsanto so screw them both. At least Ron Paul, love or hate him, didn't sell out to those food villains.

mcgruff10

hey if the patriot act avoided another 9/11 i'm all for it. i think a lot of people forget what happened 14 years ago. hopefully we can have both houses come together and pass a few provisions of this to help.
i'd like these parts of the patriot act law again:

• Lesser-known powers under Section 215 also ended. While the mass collection of phone records by the NSA has been the focus of attention, this section of the law is also used by the FBI and CIA to collect other information. For example, the CIA uses it to track financial data, such as wire transfers, that can help expose terrorist networks. The FBI has used it to obtain companies' Internet business records.
• The "roving wiretap" provision has expired. This allows federal agencies to monitor a person rather than a specific phone or electronic device. The government can keep track of suspected terrorists regardless of how many cell phones they use and throw away. Approval for the surveillance must be obtained from a federal court.
• All investigations of phone records under Section 215 of the law will not stop immediately. A clause in the Patriot Act allows the NSA to continue investigations it has already started. The agency collects data that shows who made and received calls, how long those calls lasted, and when they happened. The data does not include the substance of those calls.

rgambs

mcgruff10 said:

hey if the patriot act avoided another 9/11 i'm all for it. i think a lot of people forget what happened 14 years ago. hopefully we can have both houses come together and pass a few provisions of this to help.
i'd like these parts of the patriot act law again:

• Lesser-known powers under Section 215 also ended. While the mass collection of phone records by the NSA has been the focus of attention, this section of the law is also used by the FBI and CIA to collect other information. For example, the CIA uses it to track financial data, such as wire transfers, that can help expose terrorist networks. The FBI has used it to obtain companies' Internet business records.
• The "roving wiretap" provision has expired. This allows federal agencies to monitor a person rather than a specific phone or electronic device. The government can keep track of suspected terrorists regardless of how many cell phones they use and throw away. Approval for the surveillance must be obtained from a federal court.
• All investigations of phone records under Section 215 of the law will not stop immediately. A clause in the Patriot Act allows the NSA to continue investigations it has already started. The agency collects data that shows who made and received calls, how long those calls lasted, and when they happened. The data does not include the substance of those calls.

Except that the FBI, CIA, and NSA have never provided evidence that it has contributed to the prevention of a terrorist act, and have even made statements affirming that no such occurence has happened.

mcgruff10

rgambs said:

mcgruff10 said:

hey if the patriot act avoided another 9/11 i'm all for it. i think a lot of people forget what happened 14 years ago. hopefully we can have both houses come together and pass a few provisions of this to help.
i'd like these parts of the patriot act law again:

• Lesser-known powers under Section 215 also ended. While the mass collection of phone records by the NSA has been the focus of attention, this section of the law is also used by the FBI and CIA to collect other information. For example, the CIA uses it to track financial data, such as wire transfers, that can help expose terrorist networks. The FBI has used it to obtain companies' Internet business records.
• The "roving wiretap" provision has expired. This allows federal agencies to monitor a person rather than a specific phone or electronic device. The government can keep track of suspected terrorists regardless of how many cell phones they use and throw away. Approval for the surveillance must be obtained from a federal court.
• All investigations of phone records under Section 215 of the law will not stop immediately. A clause in the Patriot Act allows the NSA to continue investigations it has already started. The agency collects data that shows who made and received calls, how long those calls lasted, and when they happened. The data does not include the substance of those calls.

Except that the FBI, CIA, and NSA have never provided evidence that it has contributed to the prevention of a terrorist act, and have even made statements affirming that no such occurence has happened.

who cares? at least they have the means to possible prevent another terrorist attack. i have zero to hide. i'll give up a very tiny bit of my privacy to prevent another 9/11.

InHiding80

mcgruff10 said:

rgambs said:

mcgruff10 said:

hey if the patriot act avoided another 9/11 i'm all for it. i think a lot of people forget what happened 14 years ago. hopefully we can have both houses come together and pass a few provisions of this to help.
i'd like these parts of the patriot act law again:

• Lesser-known powers under Section 215 also ended. While the mass collection of phone records by the NSA has been the focus of attention, this section of the law is also used by the FBI and CIA to collect other information. For example, the CIA uses it to track financial data, such as wire transfers, that can help expose terrorist networks. The FBI has used it to obtain companies' Internet business records.
• The "roving wiretap" provision has expired. This allows federal agencies to monitor a person rather than a specific phone or electronic device. The government can keep track of suspected terrorists regardless of how many cell phones they use and throw away. Approval for the surveillance must be obtained from a federal court.
• All investigations of phone records under Section 215 of the law will not stop immediately. A clause in the Patriot Act allows the NSA to continue investigations it has already started. The agency collects data that shows who made and received calls, how long those calls lasted, and when they happened. The data does not include the substance of those calls.

Except that the FBI, CIA, and NSA have never provided evidence that it has contributed to the prevention of a terrorist act, and have even made statements affirming that no such occurence has happened.

who cares? at least they have the means to possible prevent another terrorist attack. i have zero to hide. i'll give up a very tiny bit of my privacy to prevent another 9/11.

So keep yourself safe even if it means using the constitution as a toilet and ends justify means. Got it.

Thanks for making me feel like Luke Wilson in a 2006 Mike Judge movie. SMMFH

rgambs

mcgruff10 said:

rgambs said:

mcgruff10 said:

hey if the patriot act avoided another 9/11 i'm all for it. i think a lot of people forget what happened 14 years ago. hopefully we can have both houses come together and pass a few provisions of this to help.
i'd like these parts of the patriot act law again:

• Lesser-known powers under Section 215 also ended. While the mass collection of phone records by the NSA has been the focus of attention, this section of the law is also used by the FBI and CIA to collect other information. For example, the CIA uses it to track financial data, such as wire transfers, that can help expose terrorist networks. The FBI has used it to obtain companies' Internet business records.
• The "roving wiretap" provision has expired. This allows federal agencies to monitor a person rather than a specific phone or electronic device. The government can keep track of suspected terrorists regardless of how many cell phones they use and throw away. Approval for the surveillance must be obtained from a federal court.
• All investigations of phone records under Section 215 of the law will not stop immediately. A clause in the Patriot Act allows the NSA to continue investigations it has already started. The agency collects data that shows who made and received calls, how long those calls lasted, and when they happened. The data does not include the substance of those calls.

Except that the FBI, CIA, and NSA have never provided evidence that it has contributed to the prevention of a terrorist act, and have even made statements affirming that no such occurence has happened.

who cares? at least they have the means to possible prevent another terrorist attack. i have zero to hide. i'll give up a very tiny bit of my privacy to prevent another 9/11.

I really don't think it has the power to prevent an attack. I just don't see it.
I don't personally care what they do with my phone data either, but if you don't draw the line at some point they will just keep advancing.

brianlux

I never fell for any of that business about how this was supposed to make us safe. A more reasonable approach in the first place would be to work on improving foreign relation so we would not be so hated in the first place. There's a lot that's good about America. Let's foster those good things and share them and create a more peaceful world. I'm not saying we will ever be without a military or there will never be those who are against us. But developing better relationships would allow us to scale back our military forces greatly. Smaller, more defensive oriented military forces, larger building of good will. Makes sense, doesn't it?

Go Beavers

mcgruff10 said:

rgambs said:

mcgruff10 said:

hey if the patriot act avoided another 9/11 i'm all for it. i think a lot of people forget what happened 14 years ago. hopefully we can have both houses come together and pass a few provisions of this to help.
i'd like these parts of the patriot act law again:

• Lesser-known powers under Section 215 also ended. While the mass collection of phone records by the NSA has been the focus of attention, this section of the law is also used by the FBI and CIA to collect other information. For example, the CIA uses it to track financial data, such as wire transfers, that can help expose terrorist networks. The FBI has used it to obtain companies' Internet business records.
• The "roving wiretap" provision has expired. This allows federal agencies to monitor a person rather than a specific phone or electronic device. The government can keep track of suspected terrorists regardless of how many cell phones they use and throw away. Approval for the surveillance must be obtained from a federal court.
• All investigations of phone records under Section 215 of the law will not stop immediately. A clause in the Patriot Act allows the NSA to continue investigations it has already started. The agency collects data that shows who made and received calls, how long those calls lasted, and when they happened. The data does not include the substance of those calls.

Except that the FBI, CIA, and NSA have never provided evidence that it has contributed to the prevention of a terrorist act, and have even made statements affirming that no such occurence has happened.

who cares? at least they have the means to possible prevent another terrorist attack. i have zero to hide. i'll give up a very tiny bit of my privacy to prevent another 9/11.

And that fear is how they manipulate others. There was enough intelligence in place prior to 9/11 to stop the attacks, it just wasn't acted on. Always be weary of someone peddling a message of fear.

josevolution

Not sure how you can keep tabs on potential terrorist cells living here amongst us & let's not be naive and think for one mnt they are not amongst us ...

mcgruff10

A very interesting read: http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/18/politics/nsa-leaks/

brianlux

Go Beavers said:

mcgruff10 said:

rgambs said:

mcgruff10 said:

hey if the patriot act avoided another 9/11 i'm all for it. i think a lot of people forget what happened 14 years ago. hopefully we can have both houses come together and pass a few provisions of this to help.
i'd like these parts of the patriot act law again:

• Lesser-known powers under Section 215 also ended. While the mass collection of phone records by the NSA has been the focus of attention, this section of the law is also used by the FBI and CIA to collect other information. For example, the CIA uses it to track financial data, such as wire transfers, that can help expose terrorist networks. The FBI has used it to obtain companies' Internet business records.
• The "roving wiretap" provision has expired. This allows federal agencies to monitor a person rather than a specific phone or electronic device. The government can keep track of suspected terrorists regardless of how many cell phones they use and throw away. Approval for the surveillance must be obtained from a federal court.
• All investigations of phone records under Section 215 of the law will not stop immediately. A clause in the Patriot Act allows the NSA to continue investigations it has already started. The agency collects data that shows who made and received calls, how long those calls lasted, and when they happened. The data does not include the substance of those calls.

Except that the FBI, CIA, and NSA have never provided evidence that it has contributed to the prevention of a terrorist act, and have even made statements affirming that no such occurence has happened.

who cares? at least they have the means to possible prevent another terrorist attack. i have zero to hide. i'll give up a very tiny bit of my privacy to prevent another 9/11.

And that fear is how they manipulate others. There was enough intelligence in place prior to 9/11 to stop the attacks, it just wasn't acted on. Always be weary of someone peddling a message of fear.

This really says it well, Go Beavers.

mcgruff, I appreciate that you advocate for our safety. No one wants another 9/11. But the PA went to extremes and trashing what is good about basic freedoms and privacy is not the answer. I highly recommend checking out the movie "My Name Is Khan" to get an idea of how the PA encouraged wrongful profiling.

mcgruff10

I ll check it out bud! I guess I m biased because like many I lost some friends on 9/11. I remember smelling the smoke from the towers since I live so close. Gotta be the darkest day in American history.

brianlux

mcgruff10 said:

I ll check it out bud! I guess I m biased because like many I lost some friends on 9/11. I remember smelling the smoke from the towers since I live so close. Gotta be the darkest day in American history.

Even having seen the images on TV, I can't imagine having been there. I'm very sorry to hear that you lost friends there. That sucks hugely.

mcgruff10

brianlux said:

mcgruff10 said:

I ll check it out bud! I guess I m biased because like many I lost some friends on 9/11. I remember smelling the smoke from the towers since I live so close. Gotta be the darkest day in American history.

Even having seen the images on TV, I can't imagine having been there. I'm very sorry to hear that you lost friends there. That sucks hugely.

My ex wife s neighbor was a captain for port authority police. That day he gave the command to send in around 25 port authority police to help people in the south tower. Not one of those guys survived. Damn that was a shitty day.

Redterror

ITS GONE MOFOS