It took me a while to learn not to get sucked into the mentality of having to win a debate now I try to just state my point of view on issues and learn from the others ....I respect everyone's right to their voices ...
Sounds sensible to me, Jose.
Has anyone ever won a debate here, ever, really? How does that work? What is the prize? And is that why we come here? I'd rather learn, educate and be educated, discover, share and simply endure rather than win. At least here. The only win for me would be if this place and 10,000 others like it instigated enough change in the world to reduce our negative impact on the environment or stop the killing of dolphins or slow global warming or end sexism and homophobia and racism or end poverty. That is the only kind of win that makes sense and seems worth the effort. Everything else is just glorified flatulence.
Again, you and some others are responding to the title of the thread and not the context. You have missed the point entirely.
If you were to read the article posted you might get it.
It took me a while to learn not to get sucked into the mentality of having to win a debate now I try to just state my point of view on issues and learn from the others ....I respect everyone's right to their voices ...
Sounds sensible to me, Jose.
Has anyone ever won a debate here, ever, really? How does that work? What is the prize? And is that why we come here? I'd rather learn, educate and be educated, discover, share and simply endure rather than win. At least here. The only win for me would be if this place and 10,000 others like it instigated enough change in the world to reduce our negative impact on the environment or stop the killing of dolphins or slow global warming or end sexism and homophobia and racism or end poverty. That is the only kind of win that makes sense and seems worth the effort. Everything else is just glorified flatulence.
Again, you and some others are responding to the title of the thread and not the context. You have missed the point entirely.
If you were to read the article posted you might get it.
Isn't the thread title part of the thread? An important part?
As important as the content? This is a problem on the AMT. I would like to think if you have time to look at a thread you would have time to look at the content. Are we that lazy?
If I just commented on news articles with out reading the article I think I would look pretty ignorant, but that's just me.
For political arguments I have found that, even when presented with evidence, the right wingers will completely reject evidence by stating that: 1. It comes from the "liberal" media 2. It comes from the government (which cannot be trusted, except for when the GOP occupies the white house) 3. Sources posted on Fox News or Alex Jones say otherwise
There is a danger in labeling those who disagree with you and pretending they all respond the same. It closes you off to alternative viewpoints, making the other guy wrong before he even responds.
Not to mention that someone being to your right does not automatically mean they are a "right winger." There is plenty of room on the political spectrum in between the two extremes.
You're assuming that I don't consider the points....I do
As a former Limbaugh loving anti-Clinton republican I have definitely walked in those shoes. Boy was I wrong.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Isn't the thread title part of the thread? An important part?
As important as the content? This is a problem on the AMT. I would like to think if you have time to look at a thread you would have time to look at the content. Are we that lazy?
If I just commented on news articles with out reading the article I think I would look pretty ignorant, but that's just me.
Sure, but you didn't post a news article. You posted an article about arguing on the internet and how people only hear what they want to hear. It was interesting...but it discussed something each one of us here has daily experience with. Discussion of those experiences enhanced the thread.
___________________________________________
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,759
Sorry if it seems I've dismissed or digressed from your thread, dignin. I did read the entire article and I do clearly understand the concept of confirmation bias. Like others here, I was steered away from your thread's desired focus by the thread title-as-statement which apparently is not what you intended.
What it doesn't do is change what I believe about anything I've taken a stand on. I read as widely as I can, I listen to what others say and (to me most importantly) I go out into the physical world as much as possible and experience it. My beliefs are confirmed by reality. Global warming is real to me. Hatred is real to me. Racism is real to me. Human impact on environment is real to me. I've seen and/or experienced these things. I don't need to look for places to confirm that.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Isn't the thread title part of the thread? An important part?
As important as the content? This is a problem on the AMT. I would like to think if you have time to look at a thread you would have time to look at the content. Are we that lazy?
If I just commented on news articles with out reading the article I think I would look pretty ignorant, but that's just me.
Sure, but you didn't post a news article. You posted an article about arguing on the internet and how people only hear what they want to hear. It was interesting...but it discussed something each one of us here has daily experience with. Discussion of those experiences enhanced the thread.
Sorry if it seems I've dismissed or digressed from your thread, dignin. I did read the entire article and I do clearly understand the concept of confirmation bias. Like others here, I was steered away from your thread's desired focus by the thread title-as-statement which apparently is not what you intended.
What it doesn't do is change what I believe about anything I've taken a stand on. I read as widely as I can, I listen to what others say and (to me most importantly) I go out into the physical world as much as possible and experience it. My beliefs are confirmed by reality. Global warming is real to me. Hatred is real to me. Racism is real to me. Human impact on environment is real to me. I've seen and/or experienced these things. I don't need to look for places to confirm that.
No need to apologize Brian. From your previous posts and this one I know you checked out the original post....and you get it.
I have no problem with threads evolving and going in different directions, I think it's great when they do.
I think if you can find a common ground with the person you are debating, that counts as a victory of sorts. Doesn't seem to happen often, though.
I find that the agree to disagree ending is a win for both sides.
You are an 'agree to disagree expert' Last-12-Exit. I've noticed that most people aren't as capable of doing that! I think it's because they feel like worms will eat their brains if they don't keep arguing their point to death, lol. I can relate to that!
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I think if you can find a common ground with the person you are debating, that counts as a victory of sorts. Doesn't seem to happen often, though.
I find that the agree to disagree ending is a win for both sides.
You are an 'agree to disagree expert' Last-12-Exit. I've noticed that most people aren't as capable of doing that! I think it's because they feel like worms will eat their brains if they don't keep arguing their point to death, lol. I can relate to that!
Lol. It's like trying to convince a Christian that there is no god. It's just not going to happen.
A good example for me is the back and forth between brian and me in regards to environmental issues. My stance hasn't changed, but I have learned a lot from reading his posts and articles. Several of our discussions (at least on my end) have ended with let's agree to disagree.
I come to AMT because sometimes being involved in controversial topics brings out true feelings and once those feelings are all out - good or bad, then some real talking points can be made and open ears can be had.
And I think I can say with certainty that I don't seek a confirmation bias for my opinion in regards to thinking this guy in the article is missing a screw in his head. It is a huge relief to not post paragraph after paragraph anymore about my opinion on religion/creationism.
Post edited by PJfanwillneverleave1 on
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,759
I think if you can find a common ground with the person you are debating, that counts as a victory of sorts. Doesn't seem to happen often, though.
I find that the agree to disagree ending is a win for both sides.
You are an 'agree to disagree expert' Last-12-Exit. I've noticed that most people aren't as capable of doing that! I think it's because they feel like worms will eat their brains if they don't keep arguing their point to death, lol. I can relate to that!
Lol. It's like trying to convince a Christian that there is no god. It's just not going to happen.
A good example for me is the back and forth between brian and me in regards to environmental issues. My stance hasn't changed, but I have learned a lot from reading his posts and articles. Several of our discussions (at least on my end) have ended with let's agree to disagree.
Thank you Last Exit. I think what has made it possible for you and I (and others here) to be OK with our disagreements is that we have shown each other mutual respect and have remained civil even when giving each other a bad time. For me, disagreeing with someone becomes a drag mostly when people are not civil (I admit, to my discredit, I have been guilty of ) or when people engage in bating (which I'm doing much better at ignoring, thank you very much). I've gotten along with you, Last Exit, and a few others here with whom I've had disagreements because we have remained civil. There was one person who used to post here with whom I agreed on 95% of every issue we talked about but the one area we disagreed caused us to be vehemently uncivil with each other such that the animosity between us became as great or greater than with anyone I've ever interacted with here. Dude, if your out there reading this, my sincerest apologies. That sucked big time.
Least we veer yet again too far from dignin's thread topic...
The idea of confirmation bias presents some difficulties. On the one hand, it's easy and somewhat natural to have biases. The one example I can come up with off the top of my head is that in my early twenties I strongly believed that the avante garde/free jazz my room mates insisted on playing was non-musical noise made by people who were simply trying to be weird or different. My room mates explained in detail why this was not so. I argued strongly from a more traditional approach to music. But then one day it clicked for me. Something about what they were playing that I hadn't really listened to fully made it all come together and my biases were crushed. I've been a huge fan of that music ever since. So my thought is that experience can play a large roll in balancing our biases if not outright dispelling them, or simple cementing those biases further. Maybe a wider scope of experience is the key.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I think if you can find a common ground with the person you are debating, that counts as a victory of sorts. Doesn't seem to happen often, though.
I find that the agree to disagree ending is a win for both sides.
You are an 'agree to disagree expert' Last-12-Exit. I've noticed that most people aren't as capable of doing that! I think it's because they feel like worms will eat their brains if they don't keep arguing their point to death, lol. I can relate to that!
Lol. It's like trying to convince a Christian that there is no god. It's just not going to happen.
A good example for me is the back and forth between brian and me in regards to environmental issues. My stance hasn't changed, but I have learned a lot from reading his posts and articles. Several of our discussions (at least on my end) have ended with let's agree to disagree.
Thank you Last Exit. I think what has made it possible for you and I (and others here) to be OK with our disagreements is that we have shown each other mutual respect and have remained civil even when giving each other a bad time. For me, disagreeing with someone becomes a drag mostly when people are not civil (I admit, to my discredit, I have been guilty of ) or when people engage in bating (which I'm doing much better at ignoring, thank you very much). I've gotten along with you, Last Exit, and a few others here with whom I've had disagreements because we have remained civil. There was one person who used to post here with whom I agreed on 95% of every issue we talked about but the one area we disagreed caused us to be vehemently uncivil with each other such that the animosity between us became as great or greater than with anyone I've ever interacted with here. Dude, if your out there reading this, my sincerest apologies. That sucked big time.
Least we veer yet again too far from dignin's thread topic...
The idea of confirmation bias presents some difficulties. On the one hand, it's easy and somewhat natural to have biases. The one example I can come up with off the top of my head is that in my early twenties I strongly believed that the avante garde/free jazz my room mates insisted on playing was non-musical noise made by people who were simply trying to be weird or different. My room mates explained in detail why this was not so. I argued strongly from a more traditional approach to music. But then one day it clicked for me. Something about what they were playing that I hadn't really listened to fully made it all come together and my biases were crushed. I've been a huge fan of that music ever since. So my thought is that experience can play a large roll in balancing our biases if not outright dispelling them, or simple cementing those biases further. Maybe a wider scope of experience is the key.
"Maybe a wider scope of experiences is the key".
I agree completely. I know someone who genuinely believes that there is no point in traveling outside of North America because everything he likes is right here. He has no interest in other cultures, and thinks that the idea of travel broadening the mind is ridiculous; after all, what could he possibly have to learn from another culture? From what I've seen, he's racist and narrow-minded, but he's perfectly happy with himself. He has no idea what he's missing - literally.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
I come to AMT because sometimes being involved in controversial topics brings out true feelings and once those feelings are all out - good or bad, then some real talking points can be made and open ears can be had.
And I think I can say with certainty that I don't seek a confirmation bias for my opinion in regards to thinking this guy in the article is missing a screw in his head. It is a huge relief to not post paragraph after paragraph anymore about my opinion on religion/creationism.
My favorite part
"I subscribe to the creationist position, and I believe they were laid down in Noah's flood, about 4,500 years ago. But we agree to disagree."
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,759
I think if you can find a common ground with the person you are debating, that counts as a victory of sorts. Doesn't seem to happen often, though.
I find that the agree to disagree ending is a win for both sides.
You are an 'agree to disagree expert' Last-12-Exit. I've noticed that most people aren't as capable of doing that! I think it's because they feel like worms will eat their brains if they don't keep arguing their point to death, lol. I can relate to that!
Lol. It's like trying to convince a Christian that there is no god. It's just not going to happen.
A good example for me is the back and forth between brian and me in regards to environmental issues. My stance hasn't changed, but I have learned a lot from reading his posts and articles. Several of our discussions (at least on my end) have ended with let's agree to disagree.
Thank you Last Exit. I think what has made it possible for you and I (and others here) to be OK with our disagreements is that we have shown each other mutual respect and have remained civil even when giving each other a bad time. For me, disagreeing with someone becomes a drag mostly when people are not civil (I admit, to my discredit, I have been guilty of ) or when people engage in bating (which I'm doing much better at ignoring, thank you very much). I've gotten along with you, Last Exit, and a few others here with whom I've had disagreements because we have remained civil. There was one person who used to post here with whom I agreed on 95% of every issue we talked about but the one area we disagreed caused us to be vehemently uncivil with each other such that the animosity between us became as great or greater than with anyone I've ever interacted with here. Dude, if your out there reading this, my sincerest apologies. That sucked big time.
Least we veer yet again too far from dignin's thread topic...
The idea of confirmation bias presents some difficulties. On the one hand, it's easy and somewhat natural to have biases. The one example I can come up with off the top of my head is that in my early twenties I strongly believed that the avante garde/free jazz my room mates insisted on playing was non-musical noise made by people who were simply trying to be weird or different. My room mates explained in detail why this was not so. I argued strongly from a more traditional approach to music. But then one day it clicked for me. Something about what they were playing that I hadn't really listened to fully made it all come together and my biases were crushed. I've been a huge fan of that music ever since. So my thought is that experience can play a large roll in balancing our biases if not outright dispelling them, or simple cementing those biases further. Maybe a wider scope of experience is the key.
"Maybe a wider scope of experiences is the key".
I agree completely. I know someone who genuinely believes that there is no point in traveling outside of North America because everything he likes is right here. He has no interest in other cultures, and thinks that the idea of travel broadening the mind is ridiculous; after all, what could he possibly have to learn from another culture? From what I've seen, he's racist and narrow-minded, but he's perfectly happy with himself. He has no idea what he's missing - literally.
My brother-in-law's email signature for the last few years of his life was a quote from Prussian geographer, naturalist, explorer Alexander von Humboldt: "The most dangerous worldview Is the view of those who have not viewed the world."
At first I thought that was a bit pretentious in that not everyone is able to travel and I do believe that for those for whom travel is difficult a decent world view can be gained through a combination of meeting others from other cultures, watching foreign films, reading books books and more books, etc. but that quote does say a lot. When possible (and I'm glad I had a few opportunities to do so), actually visiting others countries and being open to learning about their cultures is the best way to have a wider understanding of the world. And it may be that the sharing of cultures may be our greatest hope for achieving peace.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I think if you can find a common ground with the person you are debating, that counts as a victory of sorts. Doesn't seem to happen often, though.
I find that the agree to disagree ending is a win for both sides.
You are an 'agree to disagree expert' Last-12-Exit. I've noticed that most people aren't as capable of doing that! I think it's because they feel like worms will eat their brains if they don't keep arguing their point to death, lol. I can relate to that!
Lol. It's like trying to convince a Christian that there is no god. It's just not going to happen.
A good example for me is the back and forth between brian and me in regards to environmental issues. My stance hasn't changed, but I have learned a lot from reading his posts and articles. Several of our discussions (at least on my end) have ended with let's agree to disagree.
Thank you Last Exit. I think what has made it possible for you and I (and others here) to be OK with our disagreements is that we have shown each other mutual respect and have remained civil even when giving each other a bad time. For me, disagreeing with someone becomes a drag mostly when people are not civil (I admit, to my discredit, I have been guilty of ) or when people engage in bating (which I'm doing much better at ignoring, thank you very much). I've gotten along with you, Last Exit, and a few others here with whom I've had disagreements because we have remained civil. There was one person who used to post here with whom I agreed on 95% of every issue we talked about but the one area we disagreed caused us to be vehemently uncivil with each other such that the animosity between us became as great or greater than with anyone I've ever interacted with here. Dude, if your out there reading this, my sincerest apologies. That sucked big time.
Least we veer yet again too far from dignin's thread topic...
The idea of confirmation bias presents some difficulties. On the one hand, it's easy and somewhat natural to have biases. The one example I can come up with off the top of my head is that in my early twenties I strongly believed that the avante garde/free jazz my room mates insisted on playing was non-musical noise made by people who were simply trying to be weird or different. My room mates explained in detail why this was not so. I argued strongly from a more traditional approach to music. But then one day it clicked for me. Something about what they were playing that I hadn't really listened to fully made it all come together and my biases were crushed. I've been a huge fan of that music ever since. So my thought is that experience can play a large roll in balancing our biases if not outright dispelling them, or simple cementing those biases further. Maybe a wider scope of experience is the key.
"Maybe a wider scope of experiences is the key".
I agree completely. I know someone who genuinely believes that there is no point in traveling outside of North America because everything he likes is right here. He has no interest in other cultures, and thinks that the idea of travel broadening the mind is ridiculous; after all, what could he possibly have to learn from another culture? From what I've seen, he's racist and narrow-minded, but he's perfectly happy with himself. He has no idea what he's missing - literally.
My brother-in-law's email signature for the last few years of his life was a quote from Prussian geographer, naturalist, explorer Alexander von Humboldt: "The most dangerous worldview Is the view of those who have not viewed the world."
At first I thought that was a bit pretentious in that not everyone is able to travel and I do believe that for those for whom travel is difficult a decent world view can be gained through a combination of meeting others from other cultures, watching foreign films, reading books books and more books, etc. but that quote does say a lot. When possible (and I'm glad I had a few opportunities to do so), actually visiting others countries and being open to learning about their cultures is the best way to have a wider understanding of the world. And it may be that the sharing of cultures may be our greatest hope for achieving peace.
Bri,that's also a great way to regain perspective and be thankful for how we live,and what we have.
I think if you can find a common ground with the person you are debating, that counts as a victory of sorts. Doesn't seem to happen often, though.
I find that the agree to disagree ending is a win for both sides.
You are an 'agree to disagree expert' Last-12-Exit. I've noticed that most people aren't as capable of doing that! I think it's because they feel like worms will eat their brains if they don't keep arguing their point to death, lol. I can relate to that!
Lol. It's like trying to convince a Christian that there is no god. It's just not going to happen.
A good example for me is the back and forth between brian and me in regards to environmental issues. My stance hasn't changed, but I have learned a lot from reading his posts and articles. Several of our discussions (at least on my end) have ended with let's agree to disagree.
Thank you Last Exit. I think what has made it possible for you and I (and others here) to be OK with our disagreements is that we have shown each other mutual respect and have remained civil even when giving each other a bad time. For me, disagreeing with someone becomes a drag mostly when people are not civil (I admit, to my discredit, I have been guilty of ) or when people engage in bating (which I'm doing much better at ignoring, thank you very much). I've gotten along with you, Last Exit, and a few others here with whom I've had disagreements because we have remained civil. There was one person who used to post here with whom I agreed on 95% of every issue we talked about but the one area we disagreed caused us to be vehemently uncivil with each other such that the animosity between us became as great or greater than with anyone I've ever interacted with here. Dude, if your out there reading this, my sincerest apologies. That sucked big time.
Least we veer yet again too far from dignin's thread topic...
The idea of confirmation bias presents some difficulties. On the one hand, it's easy and somewhat natural to have biases. The one example I can come up with off the top of my head is that in my early twenties I strongly believed that the avante garde/free jazz my room mates insisted on playing was non-musical noise made by people who were simply trying to be weird or different. My room mates explained in detail why this was not so. I argued strongly from a more traditional approach to music. But then one day it clicked for me. Something about what they were playing that I hadn't really listened to fully made it all come together and my biases were crushed. I've been a huge fan of that music ever since. So my thought is that experience can play a large roll in balancing our biases if not outright dispelling them, or simple cementing those biases further. Maybe a wider scope of experience is the key.
"Maybe a wider scope of experiences is the key".
I agree completely. I know someone who genuinely believes that there is no point in traveling outside of North America because everything he likes is right here. He has no interest in other cultures, and thinks that the idea of travel broadening the mind is ridiculous; after all, what could he possibly have to learn from another culture? From what I've seen, he's racist and narrow-minded, but he's perfectly happy with himself. He has no idea what he's missing - literally.
My brother-in-law's email signature for the last few years of his life was a quote from Prussian geographer, naturalist, explorer Alexander von Humboldt: "The most dangerous worldview Is the view of those who have not viewed the world."
At first I thought that was a bit pretentious in that not everyone is able to travel and I do believe that for those for whom travel is difficult a decent world view can be gained through a combination of meeting others from other cultures, watching foreign films, reading books books and more books, etc. but that quote does say a lot. When possible (and I'm glad I had a few opportunities to do so), actually visiting others countries and being open to learning about their cultures is the best way to have a wider understanding of the world. And it may be that the sharing of cultures may be our greatest hope for achieving peace.
A good point, Brian - certainly many people won't be able to travel due to finances, health, or other reasons. I think the attitude is everything. Some people seem to believe in the inherent superiority of their own country and its practices, often without a clear idea of how that fits into the rest of the world.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Though I disagree with the right wing gun supporting death penalty proponent Muslim killing women's right refusal etc posters on here, I give them credit for leaving the safety of other more comfortable crowds and posting their views here. Some I've come to respect and see they are really cool humans and glad Come to train.
There have been a few that had enough and likely went back to their safer sites to re confirm their views.
I do go to right leaning sites to debate. Keep pulse and maybe get something though admit means to let off steam. As I do here HA.
Have a coworker that spends considerable percentage of his earnings to send his kids to Christian schools. Think he's afraid his kids will come home and tell him his reality is bunk so he keeps their information controlled for his comfort and reality.
As to people that don't want to travel feel it's more an insecurity issue than anything else.
I think if you can find a common ground with the person you are debating, that counts as a victory of sorts. Doesn't seem to happen often, though.
I find that the agree to disagree ending is a win for both sides.
You are an 'agree to disagree expert' Last-12-Exit. I've noticed that most people aren't as capable of doing that! I think it's because they feel like worms will eat their brains if they don't keep arguing their point to death, lol. I can relate to that!
Lol. It's like trying to convince a Christian that there is no god. It's just not going to happen.
A good example for me is the back and forth between brian and me in regards to environmental issues. My stance hasn't changed, but I have learned a lot from reading his posts and articles. Several of our discussions (at least on my end) have ended with let's agree to disagree.
Thank you Last Exit. I think what has made it possible for you and I (and others here) to be OK with our disagreements is that we have shown each other mutual respect and have remained civil even when giving each other a bad time. For me, disagreeing with someone becomes a drag mostly when people are not civil (I admit, to my discredit, I have been guilty of ) or when people engage in bating (which I'm doing much better at ignoring, thank you very much). I've gotten along with you, Last Exit, and a few others here with whom I've had disagreements because we have remained civil. There was one person who used to post here with whom I agreed on 95% of every issue we talked about but the one area we disagreed caused us to be vehemently uncivil with each other such that the animosity between us became as great or greater than with anyone I've ever interacted with here. Dude, if your out there reading this, my sincerest apologies. That sucked big time.
Least we veer yet again too far from dignin's thread topic...
The idea of confirmation bias presents some difficulties. On the one hand, it's easy and somewhat natural to have biases. The one example I can come up with off the top of my head is that in my early twenties I strongly believed that the avante garde/free jazz my room mates insisted on playing was non-musical noise made by people who were simply trying to be weird or different. My room mates explained in detail why this was not so. I argued strongly from a more traditional approach to music. But then one day it clicked for me. Something about what they were playing that I hadn't really listened to fully made it all come together and my biases were crushed. I've been a huge fan of that music ever since. So my thought is that experience can play a large roll in balancing our biases if not outright dispelling them, or simple cementing those biases further. Maybe a wider scope of experience is the key.
"Maybe a wider scope of experiences is the key".
I agree completely. I know someone who genuinely believes that there is no point in traveling outside of North America because everything he likes is right here. He has no interest in other cultures, and thinks that the idea of travel broadening the mind is ridiculous; after all, what could he possibly have to learn from another culture? From what I've seen, he's racist and narrow-minded, but he's perfectly happy with himself. He has no idea what he's missing - literally.
I think if you can find a common ground with the person you are debating, that counts as a victory of sorts. Doesn't seem to happen often, though.
I find that the agree to disagree ending is a win for both sides.
You are an 'agree to disagree expert' Last-12-Exit. I've noticed that most people aren't as capable of doing that! I think it's because they feel like worms will eat their brains if they don't keep arguing their point to death, lol. I can relate to that!
Lol. It's like trying to convince a Christian that there is no god. It's just not going to happen.
A good example for me is the back and forth between brian and me in regards to environmental issues. My stance hasn't changed, but I have learned a lot from reading his posts and articles. Several of our discussions (at least on my end) have ended with let's agree to disagree.
Thank you Last Exit. I think what has made it possible for you and I (and others here) to be OK with our disagreements is that we have shown each other mutual respect and have remained civil even when giving each other a bad time. For me, disagreeing with someone becomes a drag mostly when people are not civil (I admit, to my discredit, I have been guilty of ) or when people engage in bating (which I'm doing much better at ignoring, thank you very much). I've gotten along with you, Last Exit, and a few others here with whom I've had disagreements because we have remained civil. There was one person who used to post here with whom I agreed on 95% of every issue we talked about but the one area we disagreed caused us to be vehemently uncivil with each other such that the animosity between us became as great or greater than with anyone I've ever interacted with here. Dude, if your out there reading this, my sincerest apologies. That sucked big time.
Least we veer yet again too far from dignin's thread topic...
The idea of confirmation bias presents some difficulties. On the one hand, it's easy and somewhat natural to have biases. The one example I can come up with off the top of my head is that in my early twenties I strongly believed that the avante garde/free jazz my room mates insisted on playing was non-musical noise made by people who were simply trying to be weird or different. My room mates explained in detail why this was not so. I argued strongly from a more traditional approach to music. But then one day it clicked for me. Something about what they were playing that I hadn't really listened to fully made it all come together and my biases were crushed. I've been a huge fan of that music ever since. So my thought is that experience can play a large roll in balancing our biases if not outright dispelling them, or simple cementing those biases further. Maybe a wider scope of experience is the key.
"Maybe a wider scope of experiences is the key".
I agree completely. I know someone who genuinely believes that there is no point in traveling outside of North America because everything he likes is right here. He has no interest in other cultures, and thinks that the idea of travel broadening the mind is ridiculous; after all, what could he possibly have to learn from another culture? From what I've seen, he's racist and narrow-minded, but he's perfectly happy with himself. He has no idea what he's missing - literally.
My brother-in-law's email signature for the last few years of his life was a quote from Prussian geographer, naturalist, explorer Alexander von Humboldt: "The most dangerous worldview Is the view of those who have not viewed the world."
At first I thought that was a bit pretentious in that not everyone is able to travel and I do believe that for those for whom travel is difficult a decent world view can be gained through a combination of meeting others from other cultures, watching foreign films, reading books books and more books, etc. but that quote does say a lot. When possible (and I'm glad I had a few opportunities to do so), actually visiting others countries and being open to learning about their cultures is the best way to have a wider understanding of the world. And it may be that the sharing of cultures may be our greatest hope for achieving peace.
Bri,that's also a great way to regain perspective and be thankful for how we live,and what we have.
I went to New Orleans with my mom towards the end of high school, and we did a bike tour of the Lower 9th Ward after Katrina. I was set to start civil engineering in university a few months later, and when we got to the levees, our tour guide mentioned that the state of the area is often mislabelled a natural disaster, when in fact, it was an engineering failure (the levees were rated to handle far greater than the damage of Hurricane Katrina, but the Army Corps poorly engineered them). I cried like a fucking baby.
I went to school knowing these were the situations I wanted to rectify. As it turns out, I'm a mediocre engineer, and ended a brief career six months in (after aiding in designing a few 20-30 storey towers in the Greater Toronto Area. I swear they're not dangerous, they just took me too long). My point is that travelling helped me see what human-oriented needs were out in the world, and doing my best to match those needs to the skills I hoped I could assist with, that others either wouldn't or couldn't handle. This is a direct byproduct of global awareness, and with every skill I've gained in my life, I truly feel there's an applicable human-centric way to use it. The sad reality of the world is that those in need of the most assistance, are typically those with the least access to solutions to their plights. That leaves us fortunate ones to help where ever possible and appropriate.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I think if you can find a common ground with the person you are debating, that counts as a victory of sorts. Doesn't seem to happen often, though.
I find that the agree to disagree ending is a win for both sides.
You are an 'agree to disagree expert' Last-12-Exit. I've noticed that most people aren't as capable of doing that! I think it's because they feel like worms will eat their brains if they don't keep arguing their point to death, lol. I can relate to that!
Lol. It's like trying to convince a Christian that there is no god. It's just not going to happen.
A good example for me is the back and forth between brian and me in regards to environmental issues. My stance hasn't changed, but I have learned a lot from reading his posts and articles. Several of our discussions (at least on my end) have ended with let's agree to disagree.
Thank you Last Exit. I think what has made it possible for you and I (and others here) to be OK with our disagreements is that we have shown each other mutual respect and have remained civil even when giving each other a bad time. For me, disagreeing with someone becomes a drag mostly when people are not civil (I admit, to my discredit, I have been guilty of ) or when people engage in bating (which I'm doing much better at ignoring, thank you very much). I've gotten along with you, Last Exit, and a few others here with whom I've had disagreements because we have remained civil. There was one person who used to post here with whom I agreed on 95% of every issue we talked about but the one area we disagreed caused us to be vehemently uncivil with each other such that the animosity between us became as great or greater than with anyone I've ever interacted with here. Dude, if your out there reading this, my sincerest apologies. That sucked big time.
Least we veer yet again too far from dignin's thread topic...
The idea of confirmation bias presents some difficulties. On the one hand, it's easy and somewhat natural to have biases. The one example I can come up with off the top of my head is that in my early twenties I strongly believed that the avante garde/free jazz my room mates insisted on playing was non-musical noise made by people who were simply trying to be weird or different. My room mates explained in detail why this was not so. I argued strongly from a more traditional approach to music. But then one day it clicked for me. Something about what they were playing that I hadn't really listened to fully made it all come together and my biases were crushed. I've been a huge fan of that music ever since. So my thought is that experience can play a large roll in balancing our biases if not outright dispelling them, or simple cementing those biases further. Maybe a wider scope of experience is the key.
"Maybe a wider scope of experiences is the key".
I agree completely. I know someone who genuinely believes that there is no point in traveling outside of North America because everything he likes is right here. He has no interest in other cultures, and thinks that the idea of travel broadening the mind is ridiculous; after all, what could he possibly have to learn from another culture? From what I've seen, he's racist and narrow-minded, but he's perfectly happy with himself. He has no idea what he's missing - literally.
My brother-in-law's email signature for the last few years of his life was a quote from Prussian geographer, naturalist, explorer Alexander von Humboldt: "The most dangerous worldview Is the view of those who have not viewed the world."
At first I thought that was a bit pretentious in that not everyone is able to travel and I do believe that for those for whom travel is difficult a decent world view can be gained through a combination of meeting others from other cultures, watching foreign films, reading books books and more books, etc. but that quote does say a lot. When possible (and I'm glad I had a few opportunities to do so), actually visiting others countries and being open to learning about their cultures is the best way to have a wider understanding of the world. And it may be that the sharing of cultures may be our greatest hope for achieving peace.
Bri,that's also a great way to regain perspective and be thankful for how we live,and what we have.
I went to New Orleans with my mom towards the end of high school, and we did a bike tour of the Lower 9th Ward after Katrina. I was set to start civil engineering in university a few months later, and when we got to the levees, our tour guide mentioned that the state of the area is often mislabelled a natural disaster, when in fact, it was an engineering failure (the levees were rated to handle far greater than the damage of Hurricane Katrina, but the Army Corps poorly engineered them). I cried like a fucking baby.
I went to school knowing these were the situations I wanted to rectify. As it turns out, I'm a mediocre engineer, and ended a brief career six months in (after aiding in designing a few 20-30 storey towers in the Greater Toronto Area. I swear they're not dangerous, they just took me too long). My point is that travelling helped me see what human-oriented needs were out in the world, and doing my best to match those needs to the skills I hoped I could assist with, that others either wouldn't or couldn't handle. This is a direct byproduct of global awareness, and with every skill I've gained in my life, I truly feel there's an applicable human-centric way to use it. The sad reality of the world is that those in need of the most assistance, are typically those with the least access to solutions to their plights. That leaves us fortunate ones to help where ever possible and appropriate.
I think if you can find a common ground with the person you are debating, that counts as a victory of sorts. Doesn't seem to happen often, though.
I find that the agree to disagree ending is a win for both sides.
You are an 'agree to disagree expert' Last-12-Exit. I've noticed that most people aren't as capable of doing that! I think it's because they feel like worms will eat their brains if they don't keep arguing their point to death, lol. I can relate to that!
Lol. It's like trying to convince a Christian that there is no god. It's just not going to happen.
A good example for me is the back and forth between brian and me in regards to environmental issues. My stance hasn't changed, but I have learned a lot from reading his posts and articles. Several of our discussions (at least on my end) have ended with let's agree to disagree.
Thank you Last Exit. I think what has made it possible for you and I (and others here) to be OK with our disagreements is that we have shown each other mutual respect and have remained civil even when giving each other a bad time. For me, disagreeing with someone becomes a drag mostly when people are not civil (I admit, to my discredit, I have been guilty of ) or when people engage in bating (which I'm doing much better at ignoring, thank you very much). I've gotten along with you, Last Exit, and a few others here with whom I've had disagreements because we have remained civil. There was one person who used to post here with whom I agreed on 95% of every issue we talked about but the one area we disagreed caused us to be vehemently uncivil with each other such that the animosity between us became as great or greater than with anyone I've ever interacted with here. Dude, if your out there reading this, my sincerest apologies. That sucked big time.
Least we veer yet again too far from dignin's thread topic...
The idea of confirmation bias presents some difficulties. On the one hand, it's easy and somewhat natural to have biases. The one example I can come up with off the top of my head is that in my early twenties I strongly believed that the avante garde/free jazz my room mates insisted on playing was non-musical noise made by people who were simply trying to be weird or different. My room mates explained in detail why this was not so. I argued strongly from a more traditional approach to music. But then one day it clicked for me. Something about what they were playing that I hadn't really listened to fully made it all come together and my biases were crushed. I've been a huge fan of that music ever since. So my thought is that experience can play a large roll in balancing our biases if not outright dispelling them, or simple cementing those biases further. Maybe a wider scope of experience is the key.
"Maybe a wider scope of experiences is the key".
I agree completely. I know someone who genuinely believes that there is no point in traveling outside of North America because everything he likes is right here. He has no interest in other cultures, and thinks that the idea of travel broadening the mind is ridiculous; after all, what could he possibly have to learn from another culture? From what I've seen, he's racist and narrow-minded, but he's perfectly happy with himself. He has no idea what he's missing - literally.
My brother-in-law's email signature for the last few years of his life was a quote from Prussian geographer, naturalist, explorer Alexander von Humboldt: "The most dangerous worldview Is the view of those who have not viewed the world."
At first I thought that was a bit pretentious in that not everyone is able to travel and I do believe that for those for whom travel is difficult a decent world view can be gained through a combination of meeting others from other cultures, watching foreign films, reading books books and more books, etc. but that quote does say a lot. When possible (and I'm glad I had a few opportunities to do so), actually visiting others countries and being open to learning about their cultures is the best way to have a wider understanding of the world. And it may be that the sharing of cultures may be our greatest hope for achieving peace.
Bri,that's also a great way to regain perspective and be thankful for how we live,and what we have.
I went to New Orleans with my mom towards the end of high school, and we did a bike tour of the Lower 9th Ward after Katrina. I was set to start civil engineering in university a few months later, and when we got to the levees, our tour guide mentioned that the state of the area is often mislabelled a natural disaster, when in fact, it was an engineering failure (the levees were rated to handle far greater than the damage of Hurricane Katrina, but the Army Corps poorly engineered them). I cried like a fucking baby.
I went to school knowing these were the situations I wanted to rectify. As it turns out, I'm a mediocre engineer, and ended a brief career six months in (after aiding in designing a few 20-30 storey towers in the Greater Toronto Area. I swear they're not dangerous, they just took me too long). My point is that travelling helped me see what human-oriented needs were out in the world, and doing my best to match those needs to the skills I hoped I could assist with, that others either wouldn't or couldn't handle. This is a direct byproduct of global awareness, and with every skill I've gained in my life, I truly feel there's an applicable human-centric way to use it. The sad reality of the world is that those in need of the most assistance, are typically those with the least access to solutions to their plights. That leaves us fortunate ones to help where ever possible and appropriate.
I'd echo Hugh's sentiments here B.
A really nice post with the honesty that is hardly ever demonstrated (only with extreme self confidence normally acquired with a lot of experience). I know you are a young guy and that although engineering was not your calling- something more important is.
"My brain's a good brain!"
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
edited May 2015
Young guy with an old (and wise) soul
Following your gut - while still being open, if that makes sense - is invaluable. I didn't begin to truly appreciate this until my 30s...and even now.
I think if you can find a common ground with the person you are debating, that counts as a victory of sorts. Doesn't seem to happen often, though.
I find that the agree to disagree ending is a win for both sides.
You are an 'agree to disagree expert' Last-12-Exit. I've noticed that most people aren't as capable of doing that! I think it's because they feel like worms will eat their brains if they don't keep arguing their point to death, lol. I can relate to that!
Lol. It's like trying to convince a Christian that there is no god. It's just not going to happen.
A good example for me is the back and forth between brian and me in regards to environmental issues. My stance hasn't changed, but I have learned a lot from reading his posts and articles. Several of our discussions (at least on my end) have ended with let's agree to disagree.
Thank you Last Exit. I think what has made it possible for you and I (and others here) to be OK with our disagreements is that we have shown each other mutual respect and have remained civil even when giving each other a bad time. For me, disagreeing with someone becomes a drag mostly when people are not civil (I admit, to my discredit, I have been guilty of ) or when people engage in bating (which I'm doing much better at ignoring, thank you very much). I've gotten along with you, Last Exit, and a few others here with whom I've had disagreements because we have remained civil. There was one person who used to post here with whom I agreed on 95% of every issue we talked about but the one area we disagreed caused us to be vehemently uncivil with each other such that the animosity between us became as great or greater than with anyone I've ever interacted with here. Dude, if your out there reading this, my sincerest apologies. That sucked big time.
Least we veer yet again too far from dignin's thread topic...
The idea of confirmation bias presents some difficulties. On the one hand, it's easy and somewhat natural to have biases. The one example I can come up with off the top of my head is that in my early twenties I strongly believed that the avante garde/free jazz my room mates insisted on playing was non-musical noise made by people who were simply trying to be weird or different. My room mates explained in detail why this was not so. I argued strongly from a more traditional approach to music. But then one day it clicked for me. Something about what they were playing that I hadn't really listened to fully made it all come together and my biases were crushed. I've been a huge fan of that music ever since. So my thought is that experience can play a large roll in balancing our biases if not outright dispelling them, or simple cementing those biases further. Maybe a wider scope of experience is the key.
"Maybe a wider scope of experiences is the key".
I agree completely. I know someone who genuinely believes that there is no point in traveling outside of North America because everything he likes is right here. He has no interest in other cultures, and thinks that the idea of travel broadening the mind is ridiculous; after all, what could he possibly have to learn from another culture? From what I've seen, he's racist and narrow-minded, but he's perfectly happy with himself. He has no idea what he's missing - literally.
My brother-in-law's email signature for the last few years of his life was a quote from Prussian geographer, naturalist, explorer Alexander von Humboldt: "The most dangerous worldview Is the view of those who have not viewed the world."
At first I thought that was a bit pretentious in that not everyone is able to travel and I do believe that for those for whom travel is difficult a decent world view can be gained through a combination of meeting others from other cultures, watching foreign films, reading books books and more books, etc. but that quote does say a lot. When possible (and I'm glad I had a few opportunities to do so), actually visiting others countries and being open to learning about their cultures is the best way to have a wider understanding of the world. And it may be that the sharing of cultures may be our greatest hope for achieving peace.
Bri,that's also a great way to regain perspective and be thankful for how we live,and what we have.
I went to New Orleans with my mom towards the end of high school, and we did a bike tour of the Lower 9th Ward after Katrina. I was set to start civil engineering in university a few months later, and when we got to the levees, our tour guide mentioned that the state of the area is often mislabelled a natural disaster, when in fact, it was an engineering failure (the levees were rated to handle far greater than the damage of Hurricane Katrina, but the Army Corps poorly engineered them). I cried like a fucking baby.
I went to school knowing these were the situations I wanted to rectify. As it turns out, I'm a mediocre engineer, and ended a brief career six months in (after aiding in designing a few 20-30 storey towers in the Greater Toronto Area. I swear they're not dangerous, they just took me too long). My point is that travelling helped me see what human-oriented needs were out in the world, and doing my best to match those needs to the skills I hoped I could assist with, that others either wouldn't or couldn't handle. This is a direct byproduct of global awareness, and with every skill I've gained in my life, I truly feel there's an applicable human-centric way to use it. The sad reality of the world is that those in need of the most assistance, are typically those with the least access to solutions to their plights. That leaves us fortunate ones to help where ever possible and appropriate.
Which towers benjs? Just curious. When I drive by I can say "Benjs did that!".
I think if you can find a common ground with the person you are debating, that counts as a victory of sorts. Doesn't seem to happen often, though.
I find that the agree to disagree ending is a win for both sides.
You are an 'agree to disagree expert' Last-12-Exit. I've noticed that most people aren't as capable of doing that! I think it's because they feel like worms will eat their brains if they don't keep arguing their point to death, lol. I can relate to that!
Lol. It's like trying to convince a Christian that there is no god. It's just not going to happen.
A good example for me is the back and forth between brian and me in regards to environmental issues. My stance hasn't changed, but I have learned a lot from reading his posts and articles. Several of our discussions (at least on my end) have ended with let's agree to disagree.
Thank you Last Exit. I think what has made it possible for you and I (and others here) to be OK with our disagreements is that we have shown each other mutual respect and have remained civil even when giving each other a bad time. For me, disagreeing with someone becomes a drag mostly when people are not civil (I admit, to my discredit, I have been guilty of ) or when people engage in bating (which I'm doing much better at ignoring, thank you very much). I've gotten along with you, Last Exit, and a few others here with whom I've had disagreements because we have remained civil. There was one person who used to post here with whom I agreed on 95% of every issue we talked about but the one area we disagreed caused us to be vehemently uncivil with each other such that the animosity between us became as great or greater than with anyone I've ever interacted with here. Dude, if your out there reading this, my sincerest apologies. That sucked big time.
Least we veer yet again too far from dignin's thread topic...
The idea of confirmation bias presents some difficulties. On the one hand, it's easy and somewhat natural to have biases. The one example I can come up with off the top of my head is that in my early twenties I strongly believed that the avante garde/free jazz my room mates insisted on playing was non-musical noise made by people who were simply trying to be weird or different. My room mates explained in detail why this was not so. I argued strongly from a more traditional approach to music. But then one day it clicked for me. Something about what they were playing that I hadn't really listened to fully made it all come together and my biases were crushed. I've been a huge fan of that music ever since. So my thought is that experience can play a large roll in balancing our biases if not outright dispelling them, or simple cementing those biases further. Maybe a wider scope of experience is the key.
"Maybe a wider scope of experiences is the key".
I agree completely. I know someone who genuinely believes that there is no point in traveling outside of North America because everything he likes is right here. He has no interest in other cultures, and thinks that the idea of travel broadening the mind is ridiculous; after all, what could he possibly have to learn from another culture? From what I've seen, he's racist and narrow-minded, but he's perfectly happy with himself. He has no idea what he's missing - literally.
My brother-in-law's email signature for the last few years of his life was a quote from Prussian geographer, naturalist, explorer Alexander von Humboldt: "The most dangerous worldview Is the view of those who have not viewed the world."
At first I thought that was a bit pretentious in that not everyone is able to travel and I do believe that for those for whom travel is difficult a decent world view can be gained through a combination of meeting others from other cultures, watching foreign films, reading books books and more books, etc. but that quote does say a lot. When possible (and I'm glad I had a few opportunities to do so), actually visiting others countries and being open to learning about their cultures is the best way to have a wider understanding of the world. And it may be that the sharing of cultures may be our greatest hope for achieving peace.
Bri,that's also a great way to regain perspective and be thankful for how we live,and what we have.
I went to New Orleans with my mom towards the end of high school, and we did a bike tour of the Lower 9th Ward after Katrina. I was set to start civil engineering in university a few months later, and when we got to the levees, our tour guide mentioned that the state of the area is often mislabelled a natural disaster, when in fact, it was an engineering failure (the levees were rated to handle far greater than the damage of Hurricane Katrina, but the Army Corps poorly engineered them). I cried like a fucking baby.
I went to school knowing these were the situations I wanted to rectify. As it turns out, I'm a mediocre engineer, and ended a brief career six months in (after aiding in designing a few 20-30 storey towers in the Greater Toronto Area. I swear they're not dangerous, they just took me too long). My point is that travelling helped me see what human-oriented needs were out in the world, and doing my best to match those needs to the skills I hoped I could assist with, that others either wouldn't or couldn't handle. This is a direct byproduct of global awareness, and with every skill I've gained in my life, I truly feel there's an applicable human-centric way to use it. The sad reality of the world is that those in need of the most assistance, are typically those with the least access to solutions to their plights. That leaves us fortunate ones to help where ever possible and appropriate.
Which towers benjs? Just curious. When I drive by I can say "Benjs did that!".
The sad reality is that I honestly don't even remember! I left during design phase (pre-construction), and when you're pouring over architectural drawings and doing designs based on those - a tower's a tower. That said, the one I focused on was a three-tower complex, one of which was smaller (about 7 storeys), one was about 25 storeys, and the other was to have a mall at its base, followed by another 20 storeys. I also looked at a steel-framed hospital to go up in Brampton I believe, but I'm not even sure if we won the bid for that one.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Comments
Again, you and some others are responding to the title of the thread and not the context. You have missed the point entirely.
If you were to read the article posted you might get it.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
If I just commented on news articles with out reading the article I think I would look pretty ignorant, but that's just me.
As a former Limbaugh loving anti-Clinton republican I have definitely walked in those shoes. Boy was I wrong.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
What it doesn't do is change what I believe about anything I've taken a stand on. I read as widely as I can, I listen to what others say and (to me most importantly) I go out into the physical world as much as possible and experience it. My beliefs are confirmed by reality. Global warming is real to me. Hatred is real to me. Racism is real to me. Human impact on environment is real to me. I've seen and/or experienced these things. I don't need to look for places to confirm that.
I have no problem with threads evolving and going in different directions, I think it's great when they do.
A good example for me is the back and forth between brian and me in regards to environmental issues. My stance hasn't changed, but I have learned a lot from reading his posts and articles. Several of our discussions (at least on my end) have ended with let's agree to disagree.
For instance I think I no longer have to state my opinion about things like this article
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-creationist-discovers-rare-fish-fossils-in-basement-dig-1.3091266
And I think I can say with certainty that I don't seek a confirmation bias for my opinion in regards to thinking this guy in the article is missing a screw in his head.
It is a huge relief to not post paragraph after paragraph anymore about my opinion on religion/creationism.
Least we veer yet again too far from dignin's thread topic...
The idea of confirmation bias presents some difficulties. On the one hand, it's easy and somewhat natural to have biases. The one example I can come up with off the top of my head is that in my early twenties I strongly believed that the avante garde/free jazz my room mates insisted on playing was non-musical noise made by people who were simply trying to be weird or different. My room mates explained in detail why this was not so. I argued strongly from a more traditional approach to music. But then one day it clicked for me. Something about what they were playing that I hadn't really listened to fully made it all come together and my biases were crushed. I've been a huge fan of that music ever since. So my thought is that experience can play a large roll in balancing our biases if not outright dispelling them, or simple cementing those biases further. Maybe a wider scope of experience is the key.
I agree completely. I know someone who genuinely believes that there is no point in traveling outside of North America because everything he likes is right here. He has no interest in other cultures, and thinks that the idea of travel broadening the mind is ridiculous; after all, what could he possibly have to learn from another culture? From what I've seen, he's racist and narrow-minded, but he's perfectly happy with himself. He has no idea what he's missing - literally.
My favorite part
"I subscribe to the creationist position, and I believe they were laid down in Noah's flood, about 4,500 years ago. But we agree to disagree."
"The most dangerous worldview
Is the view of those who have not viewed the world."
At first I thought that was a bit pretentious in that not everyone is able to travel and I do believe that for those for whom travel is difficult a decent world view can be gained through a combination of meeting others from other cultures, watching foreign films, reading books books and more books, etc. but that quote does say a lot. When possible (and I'm glad I had a few opportunities to do so), actually visiting others countries and being open to learning about their cultures is the best way to have a wider understanding of the world. And it may be that the sharing of cultures may be our greatest hope for achieving peace.
Though I disagree with the right wing gun supporting death penalty proponent Muslim killing women's right refusal etc posters on here,
There have been a few that had enough and likely went back to their safer sites to re confirm their views.
I do go to right leaning sites to debate. Keep pulse and maybe get something though admit means to let off steam. As I do here HA.
Have a coworker that spends considerable percentage of his earnings to send his kids to Christian schools. Think he's afraid his kids will come home and tell him his reality is bunk so he keeps their information controlled for his comfort and reality.
As to people that don't want to travel feel it's more an insecurity issue than anything else.
www.headstonesband.com
I went to school knowing these were the situations I wanted to rectify. As it turns out, I'm a mediocre engineer, and ended a brief career six months in (after aiding in designing a few 20-30 storey towers in the Greater Toronto Area. I swear they're not dangerous, they just took me too long). My point is that travelling helped me see what human-oriented needs were out in the world, and doing my best to match those needs to the skills I hoped I could assist with, that others either wouldn't or couldn't handle. This is a direct byproduct of global awareness, and with every skill I've gained in my life, I truly feel there's an applicable human-centric way to use it. The sad reality of the world is that those in need of the most assistance, are typically those with the least access to solutions to their plights. That leaves us fortunate ones to help where ever possible and appropriate.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
www.headstonesband.com
A really nice post with the honesty that is hardly ever demonstrated (only with extreme self confidence normally acquired with a lot of experience). I know you are a young guy and that although engineering was not your calling- something more important is.
Following your gut - while still being open, if that makes sense - is invaluable. I didn't begin to truly appreciate this until my 30s...and even now.
Reminds me of the Robert Frost poem.
Me. Thank you. Move on now.
(Damn... why didn't I think of that!)
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1