"US soldiers raped Iraqi boys in front of their mothers"

halv

[link removed by Admin. It sounds like it's not a link within the Posting Guidelines and I don't need another disgusting image in my head from checking a link. Discuss the subject without the link please. Thank you.]

Ugh......

brianlux

Jesus H.... I think a heads up is would definitely have been in order here. The photographs in the link above are disgusting. Didn't need to see that without at least being forewarned.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

This situation was presented in another thread, but probably warrants its own thread.

The soldiers in the pictures look like the biggest gumbies a gumby could ever aspire to be.

Criminal charges and compensation are in order. People covering up the events need to be charged as well. This significantly damages any credibility the US military might possess as they navigate rough waters. They need to deal with this in a decisive manner.

callen

Normal stuff that happens in war. So US troops involved more extremists to attack your city. And for what?

rr165892

Imagine if we had The social media availability during Vietnam.That would make this stuff look like pre school activity class

badbrains

Beyond disgusting

Moonpig

Seems as though everyone is in agreement - horrific.

Now, if some of you could maybe lock this story away for the next time you throw out fiery indignation at trying to wrap your head around why muslims "hate our freedom"

Acts like this are indefensible. Lock the scum up.

rr165892

Moonpig said:

Seems as though everyone is in agreement - horrific.

Now, if some of you could maybe lock this story away for the next time you throw out fiery indignation at trying to wrap your head around why muslims "hate our freedom"

Acts like this are indefensible. Lock the scum up.

Not Muslims.Fundamentalist crazies who pervert the Muslim religion.They are different

Moonpig

Ha ha,

Nice try, if I'm not with you I must be against you right?

War mongers are war mongers, scum are scum, I don't differentiate on colour nor creed.

ISIS represent the Muslim faith as much as American soldiers represent the Christian, you can either believe it to be true, or not, however it can't be both.

Jason P

God has a hard on for Marines, because we kill everything we see. He plays His games, we play ours. To show our appreciation for so much power, we keep heaven packed with fresh souls. God was here before the Marine Corps, so you can give your heart to Jesus, but your ass belongs to the corps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t4FgmaKOy8

American solders in the past may have represented Christians. Today, they represent the spaghetti monster. We have become a godless nation in the last 25 years.

callen

rr165892 said:

Moonpig said:

Seems as though everyone is in agreement - horrific.

Now, if some of you could maybe lock this story away for the next time you throw out fiery indignation at trying to wrap your head around why muslims "hate our freedom"

Acts like this are indefensible. Lock the scum up.

Not Muslims.Fundamentalist crazies who pervert the Muslim religion.They are different

And it's events like this that will happen in every war that create breeding g ground for so called extremists. We need to keep out though seems we're heading g right back to free Mosal.

Moonpig

Jason P said:

God has a hard on for Marines, because we kill everything we see. He plays His games, we play ours. To show our appreciation for so much power, we keep heaven packed with fresh souls. God was here before the Marine Corps, so you can give your heart to Jesus, but your ass belongs to the corps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t4FgmaKOy8

American solders in the past may have represented Christians. Today, they represent the spaghetti monster. We have become a godless nation in the last 25 years.

Ofcourse you are spot on, I'm simply throwing a stupid generalisation around to show how stupid the generalisation is.

dignin

Jason P said:

God has a hard on for Marines, because we kill everything we see. He plays His games, we play ours. To show our appreciation for so much power, we keep heaven packed with fresh souls. God was here before the Marine Corps, so you can give your heart to Jesus, but your ass belongs to the corps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t4FgmaKOy8

American solders in the past may have represented Christians. Today, they represent the spaghetti monster. We have become a godless nation in the last 25 years.

NOT MY FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER!!

Jason P

dignin said:

Jason P said:

God has a hard on for Marines, because we kill everything we see. He plays His games, we play ours. To show our appreciation for so much power, we keep heaven packed with fresh souls. God was here before the Marine Corps, so you can give your heart to Jesus, but your ass belongs to the corps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t4FgmaKOy8

American solders in the past may have represented Christians. Today, they represent the spaghetti monster. We have become a godless nation in the last 25 years.

NOT MY FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER!!

Well, obviously I was referring to the Protestant Reformation of the Church of the Spaghetti Monster, not the Catholic Church of the Spaghetti Monster. My apologies if you were offended.

rr165892

Moonpig said:

Ha ha,

Nice try, if I'm not with you I must be against you right?

War mongers are war mongers, scum are scum, I don't differentiate on colour nor creed.

ISIS represent the Muslim faith as much as American soldiers represent the Christian, you can either believe it to be true, or not, however it can't be both.

Don't put words in my mouth.Thats not even close to what I said.

jeffbr

Moonpig said:

ISIS represent the Muslim faith as much as American soldiers represent the Christian, you can either believe it to be true, or not, however it can't be both.

How do you figure? I think if you make a reach any farther you'll fall off that high horse.

ISIS, defined by the very name they've given themselves is based on Islamic tenants. A gross perversion of Islam to be sure, but I think you'll have a hard time denying that they see themselves as Muslim. An American soldier is not necessarily Christian. An American soldier can identify with any religious or moral belief or none at all. An American soldier can be an idiot extremist, or can be a reasonable, moderate individual. An ISIS soldier has to affiliate with a very fringe, extremist group of ideologues who think and act in concert. They are jihadists. If you believe American soldiers are Christian jihadist equivalents then there is probably no sense in going down a rabbit hole with the discussion since that would be an unsupportable premise.

rr165892

jeffbr said:

Moonpig said:

ISIS represent the Muslim faith as much as American soldiers represent the Christian, you can either believe it to be true, or not, however it can't be both.

How do you figure? I think if you make a reach any farther you'll fall off that high horse.

ISIS, defined by the very name they've given themselves is based on Islamic tenants. A gross perversion of Islam to be sure, but I think you'll have a hard time denying that they see themselves as Muslim. An American soldier is not necessarily Christian. An American soldier can identify with any religious or moral belief or none at all. An American soldier can be an idiot extremist, or can be a reasonable, moderate individual. An ISIS soldier has to affiliate with a very fringe, extremist group of ideologues who think and act in concert. They are jihadists. If you believe American soldiers are Christian jihadist equivalents then there is probably no sense in going down a rabbit hole with the discussion since that would be an unsupportable premise.

I think they are putting some smart stuff in the coffee up in Jet City Jeff.

jeffbr

rr165892 said:

jeffbr said:

Moonpig said:

ISIS represent the Muslim faith as much as American soldiers represent the Christian, you can either believe it to be true, or not, however it can't be both.

How do you figure? I think if you make a reach any farther you'll fall off that high horse.

ISIS, defined by the very name they've given themselves is based on Islamic tenants. A gross perversion of Islam to be sure, but I think you'll have a hard time denying that they see themselves as Muslim. An American soldier is not necessarily Christian. An American soldier can identify with any religious or moral belief or none at all. An American soldier can be an idiot extremist, or can be a reasonable, moderate individual. An ISIS soldier has to affiliate with a very fringe, extremist group of ideologues who think and act in concert. They are jihadists. If you believe American soldiers are Christian jihadist equivalents then there is probably no sense in going down a rabbit hole with the discussion since that would be an unsupportable premise.

I think they are putting some smart stuff in the coffee up in Jet City Jeff.

Ha, thanks, RR. I definitely plead guilty to a coffee addiction!

Drowned Out

jeffbr said:

Moonpig said:

ISIS represent the Muslim faith as much as American soldiers represent the Christian, you can either believe it to be true, or not, however it can't be both.

How do you figure? I think if you make a reach any farther you'll fall off that high horse.

ISIS, defined by the very name they've given themselves is based on Islamic tenants. A gross perversion of Islam to be sure, but I think you'll have a hard time denying that they see themselves as Muslim. An American soldier is not necessarily Christian. An American soldier can identify with any religious or moral belief or none at all. An American soldier can be an idiot extremist, or can be a reasonable, moderate individual. An ISIS soldier has to affiliate with a very fringe, extremist group of ideologues who think and act in concert. They are jihadists. If you believe American soldiers are Christian jihadist equivalents then there is probably no sense in going down a rabbit hole with the discussion since that would be an unsupportable premise.

I think the dilemma here is more in how we see our enemies than in how the two sides see themselves..... Whether it's by religion or other dividing lines isn't really important in the bigger picture. Whether the public in the west see the IS represents islam or just a fucked up interpretation of it doesn't matter - either way, they are different, they think they're morally superior, and because of that they are the enemy. Whether the public in the east see our military as Christian or imperialists doesn't matter either - they think we're different, they see us as pushing a morality that doesn't work for them, and therefore see us as the enemy.
And....do you really know that the IS HAS to affiliate with a 'very fringe extremist group of ideologues who think and act in concert'? Because they don't. The IS is a catch-all phrase used to describe dozens of groups that are fighting for different reasons. Some of them are Sunni Iraqi's, slighted by the shift in government and the sectarian slaughter that has occurred since (and resulting from) the US occupation. Some want to see Assad, or whichever government they're fighting, fall. Some are anti-American/anti-capitalism/anti-imperialists. Some are just paid foreign mercenaries. A French hostage that was released has reported that his captors had zero interest in islam. It isn't as different on their side as you think it is....if an american watched american sniper and got all inspired to go kill muslims, where would he go? The military. If an Iraqi watched his family slaughtered by US bombs and wanted to go kill americans and their puppets, where would they go? The IS.
As always, religion is being used as a convenient scapegoat, by both sides of a war for money and power. (And as always....there are western fingerprints on both sides of the fight).

jeffbr

Drowned Out said:

jeffbr said:

Moonpig said:

ISIS represent the Muslim faith as much as American soldiers represent the Christian, you can either believe it to be true, or not, however it can't be both.

How do you figure? I think if you make a reach any farther you'll fall off that high horse.

ISIS, defined by the very name they've given themselves is based on Islamic tenants. A gross perversion of Islam to be sure, but I think you'll have a hard time denying that they see themselves as Muslim. An American soldier is not necessarily Christian. An American soldier can identify with any religious or moral belief or none at all. An American soldier can be an idiot extremist, or can be a reasonable, moderate individual. An ISIS soldier has to affiliate with a very fringe, extremist group of ideologues who think and act in concert. They are jihadists. If you believe American soldiers are Christian jihadist equivalents then there is probably no sense in going down a rabbit hole with the discussion since that would be an unsupportable premise.

I think the dilemma here is more in how we see our enemies than in how the two sides see themselves..... Whether it's by religion or other dividing lines isn't really important in the bigger picture.

I think understanding the dividing lines is actually very important. Doesn't understanding create the ability to resolve differences or at least tolerate them? You dismiss or wave away fundamental differences as unimportant and then wonder why people don't understand each other.

Drowned Out said:

Whether the public in the west see the IS represents islam or just a fucked up interpretation of it doesn't matter - either way, they are different, they think they're morally superior, and because of that they are the enemy. Whether the public in the east see our military as Christian or imperialists doesn't matter either - they think we're different, they see us as pushing a morality that doesn't work for them, and therefore see us as the enemy.

But doesn't that line of thinking just lead to ignorance? Don't worry about why they hate us or we hate them. We just do.

Drowned Out said:

And....do you really know that the IS HAS to affiliate with a 'very fringe extremist group of ideologues who think and act in concert'? Because they don't. The IS is a catch-all phrase used to describe dozens of groups that are fighting for different reasons. Some of them are Sunni Iraqi's, slighted by the shift in government and the sectarian slaughter that has occurred since (and resulting from) the US occupation. Some want to see Assad, or whichever government they're fighting, fall. Some are anti-American/anti-capitalism/anti-imperialists. Some are just paid foreign mercenaries. A French hostage that was released has reported that his captors had zero interest in islam. It isn't as different on their side as you think it is....if an american watched american sniper and got all inspired to go kill muslims, where would he go? The military. If an Iraqi watched his family slaughtered by US bombs and wanted to go kill americans and their puppets, where would they go? The IS.

You think of both sides (IS and US) as loose associations of people with geographic similarities and differing beliefs. While I'm sure there is some of that. I think that is just obfuscation. IS is a group. IS has leadership. As has been mentioned in another thread IS has claimed to be a caliphate. Are there some members of IS who might not be quite as fringe or extremist? I'm sure there are, but are you actually claiming that IS is not an organization based around common religious beliefs? Can Jews and Christians be members of IS? I agree that there are different reasons why some may be joining the fight, and not all of those reasons are primarily religious. In fact, I don't believe that the main reason for most of the members is religious. Religion is just a convenient tool to be perverted by men as a means of control. But religion plays a very dominant role in IS - how it is run, who runs it, etc... I don't believe the same can be said about the US.

Drowned Out said:

As always, religion is being used as a convenient scapegoat, by both sides of a war for money and power. (And as always....there are western fingerprints on both sides of the fight).

I understand what you're saying and agree that there is a lot more than religion to blame, although I don't think religion is entirely a scapegoat here, since the discussion of religion in this context absolutely has merit.

callen

Drowned Out said:

jeffbr said:

Moonpig said:

ISIS represent the Muslim faith as much as American soldiers represent the Christian, you can either believe it to be true, or not, however it can't be both.

How do you figure? I think if you make a reach any farther you'll fall off that high horse.

ISIS, defined by the very name they've given themselves is based on Islamic tenants. A gross perversion of Islam to be sure, but I think you'll have a hard time denying that they see themselves as Muslim. An American soldier is not necessarily Christian. An American soldier can identify with any religious or moral belief or none at all. An American soldier can be an idiot extremist, or can be a reasonable, moderate individual. An ISIS soldier has to affiliate with a very fringe, extremist group of ideologues who think and act in concert. They are jihadists. If you believe American soldiers are Christian jihadist equivalents then there is probably no sense in going down a rabbit hole with the discussion since that would be an unsupportable premise.

I think the dilemma here is more in how we see our enemies than in how the two sides see themselves..... Whether it's by religion or other dividing lines isn't really important in the bigger picture. Whether the public in the west see the IS represents islam or just a fucked up interpretation of it doesn't matter - either way, they are different, they think they're morally superior, and because of that they are the enemy. Whether the public in the east see our military as Christian or imperialists doesn't matter either - they think we're different, they see us as pushing a morality that doesn't work for them, and therefore see us as the enemy.
And....do you really know that the IS HAS to affiliate with a 'very fringe extremist group of ideologues who think and act in concert'? Because they don't. The IS is a catch-all phrase used to describe dozens of groups that are fighting for different reasons. Some of them are Sunni Iraqi's, slighted by the shift in government and the sectarian slaughter that has occurred since (and resulting from) the US occupation. Some want to see Assad, or whichever government they're fighting, fall. Some are anti-American/anti-capitalism/anti-imperialists. Some are just paid foreign mercenaries. A French hostage that was released has reported that his captors had zero interest in islam. It isn't as different on their side as you think it is....if an american watched american sniper and got all inspired to go kill muslims, where would he go? The military. If an Iraqi watched his family slaughtered by US bombs and wanted to go kill americans and their puppets, where would they go? The IS.
As always, religion is being used as a convenient scapegoat, by both sides of a war for money and power. (And as always....there are western fingerprints on both sides of the fight).

Come on I prefer and easier to just throw all them ragheads in a box called Evildoers. Very therapeutic.


. Really like this post, appreciate the perspective.

Moonpig

jeffbr said:

Moonpig said:

ISIS represent the Muslim faith as much as American soldiers represent the Christian, you can either believe it to be true, or not, however it can't be both.

How do you figure? I think if you make a reach any farther you'll fall off that high horse.

ISIS, defined by the very name they've given themselves is based on Islamic tenants. A gross perversion of Islam to be sure, but I think you'll have a hard time denying that they see themselves as Muslim. An American soldier is not necessarily Christian. An American soldier can identify with any religious or moral belief or none at all. An American soldier can be an idiot extremist, or can be a reasonable, moderate individual. An ISIS soldier has to affiliate with a very fringe, extremist group of ideologues who think and act in concert. They are jihadists. If you believe American soldiers are Christian jihadist equivalents then there is probably no sense in going down a rabbit hole with the discussion since that would be an unsupportable premise.

High horse - really?

I absolutely do not believe that American soldiers represent Christianity, however I also don't believe that ISIS represent the Muslim faith.

The point I was making - I hope that those on here that spout bigoted tripe put this story away the next time someone says: "they hate us for our freedoms".

I'll ride off in to the sunset now.