Did I Just Watch The USA and Russia Go To War

Austicman

I'm just watching the Ukranian President address Congress and he was basically begging for US intervention. I haven't been keeping up on things. How much help is he likely to get? Are the US likely to pull all the toys of the shelf and head in?

PJ_Soul

Not a chance in hell. The Ukraine doesn't have enough oil.

benjs

PJ_Soul said:

Not a chance in hell. The Ukraine doesn't have enough oil.

)

Drowned Out

Oil DOES play a big part in this situation, but not because of Ukraine's reserves - this is about controlling pipeline corridors (edit: mostly for natural gas - a bigger 'part' than oil), pressuring/isolating Russia with sanctions and by expanding NATO to encircle them, in an attempt to prevent them from trading oil in anything but US currency (maintain petrodollar hegemony).
The US sponsored the coup there, and they continue to support some really fucked up people (literally - Nazis). They are asking for US help in suppressing (killing) their own people. Likely because shooting down that plane didn't goad either side (US or Russia) into a full on war. And our fearless leaders are applauding him like he's done the Ukrainian people a favour.

brianlux

Drowned Out said:

Oil DOES play a big part in this situation, but not because of Ukraine's reserves - this is about controlling pipeline corridors (edit: mostly for natural gas - a bigger 'part' than oil), pressuring/isolating Russia with sanctions and by expanding NATO to encircle them, in an attempt to prevent them from trading oil in anything but US currency (maintain petrodollar hegemony).
The US sponsored the coup there, and they continue to support some really fucked up people (literally - Nazis). They are asking for US help in suppressing (killing) their own people. Likely because shooting down that plane didn't goad either side (US or Russia) into a full on war. And our fearless leaders are applauding him like he's done the Ukrainian people a favour.

Seems I also read that the Ukraine is rich in mineral deposits, yes? Wars are about resources or religion and I don't hear a lot of controversy over religion in the Ukraine so I'd think it's gotta be resources.

What do you make of this? Kind of reminds me of things I've read about Stalin:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/17/one-million-ukrainian-civ_n_5834508.html

Ukraine To Screen One Million Civil Servants For Loyalty

KIEV, Sept 17 (Reuters) - Ukraine's prime minister said on Wednesday that one million civil servants, including from government ranks, will be screened for loyalty under new legislation to root out corrupt practices hanging over from the previous ousted administration.

"According to our calculation, one million civil servants of different kinds will come under this law, including the whole cabinet of ministers, the interior ministry, the intelligence services, the prosecutor's office," Arseny Yatseniuk told a cabinet meeting.

"All the bodies of central power who worked at the time of President Viktor Yanukovich will fall under this law," he said.

A new law on "lustration" - meaning a purge of the ranks of power - was passed by parliament on Tuesday under grassroots pressure from lobby groups representing protesters who brought down Yanukovich in February after months of unrest. (Writing by Richard Balmforth, editing by John Stonestreet)

Drowned Out

That is beyond messed. You know they will use this to weed out anyone who opposes, no matter who they say they pledge their allegiance to, or how cleanly they pass whatever screening is done. god news agencies are useless tho, eh? wtf...thanks Reuters for the in-depth reporting on what 'screening' means ) I will have to fire up the google box on that one a little later...


This is another brutal regime backed by our corporatocracy...the reports of massacres since this government was handed power make the complaints people had against Yanukovich pail in comparison. Funny how that works...when Yanukovich was killing people and calling them terrorists, with our media on the megaphones saying the same....everyone condemned him. Even AFTER the recording of Victoria Nuland admitting the US had funded the coup was leaked.

Now Poroshenko is killing WAY more of his own citizens than Yanukovich did, while calling them terrorists...and what do our leaders do? invite him for a visit. Our media is silent, supporting a narrative that portrays him as the saviour of Ukraine, who is in need of help against Russia and terrorists. What does that tell us?

This little show we're being given at the moment is meant only to build public support and demonize Russia to western audiences. There is no way the US will get (more) directly involved in a war next door to Russia...not on the surface. They will continue to fund this government thru NGO's and NATO allies.

All of the geopolitical posturing is backfiring on the US...the sanctions are hurting Russia, but they are strengthening ties with China....it's becoming a game of chicken between the EU and Russia...I haven't checked figures, but since the US has grown significantly as a gas supplier in recent years, I would bet that US exports of liquid gas to the EU have gone up juuuust a little since the sanctions against Russia began.
Then we remember that Hunter Biden was named Director of Legal Affairs at the biggest gas firm in Ukraine....and then we also start seeing headlines like this:

Ukraine Crisis: Canada Needs Pipelines, Infrastructure To Profit From Country's Unrest
OTTAWA - A lack of pipelines and other infrastructure means Canada has little hope of reaping any kind of energy or resource windfall from the crisis in Ukraine, a group of international energy experts said Thursday.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/05/01/canada-ukraine-pipelines_n_5247540.html

Energy analysts calling war opportunity, and using it as an excuse to push for more power and further destruction of our planet...cui bono.
whodathunkit.

Drowned Out

x2

brianlux

"That is beyond messed. You know they will use this to weed out anyone who opposes, no matter who they say they pledge their allegiance to, or how cleanly they pass whatever screening is done. god news agencies are useless tho, eh? wtf...thanks Reuters for the in-depth reporting on what 'screening' means "

Yeah, that's it right there. "You, come with us, we have a FREE ticket for you on the Trans- (well, half way anyway) Siberian express! Bon Voyage!"

Jason P

Those sneaky Russians just bought Pabst Brewing Co. This is an act of war.

brianlux

Jason P said:

Those sneaky Russians just bought Pabst Brewing Co. This is an act of war.

I thought you were kidding... then I looked it up. I may have to change my stance of being anti-nuke. Bomb those bastards!! )

mickeyrat

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/19/us/russian-plane-incidents/index.html

(CNN) -- Two U.S. jets intercepted six Russian planes that neared U.S. airspace off Alaska on Thursday and Canadian planes intercepted two Russian bombers that approached Canadian airspace, NORAD reported.

A U.S. official told CNN's Barbara Starr that officials in Washington think the incidents were related to the visit by Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko, who talked to Canadian officials Wednesday and President Barack Obama on Thursday. The United States promised Ukraine $46 million in nonlethal aid for its battle with pro-Russian militants.

The Russian aircraft flew within about 55 nautical miles of the Alaskan coastline and about 40 nautical miles of the Canadian coastline, said Capt. Jeff Davis of the North American Aerospace Defense Command, or NORAD.

Two Alaskan-based F-22 fighter jets intercepted two Russian IL-78 refueling tankers, two Russian Mig-31 fighter jets and two Russian Bear long-range bombers, a statement from NORAD said. The Russian planes flew in a loop and returned toward Russia.

Two Canadian CF-18 fighter jets intercepted two Russian Bear long-range bombers in the Beaufort Sea, the statement said.

Though the planes did not enter sovereign territory, the statement said, they did enter the U.S. Air Defense Identification Zone west of Alaska and the Canadian ADIZ, according to a statement.

The ADIZ is a zone of airspace which extends approximately 200 miles from the coastline and is mainly within international airspace, according to the statement. The outer limits of the ADIZ go beyond U.S. sovereign air space.

State aircraft of sovereign nations are not required to file flight plans. NORAD said it has intercepted more than 50 Russian aircraft in the last five years. NORAD jets usually intercept one or two Russian planes, normally bombers.

Dutch fighter jets intercept 2 Russian bombers in their airspace

brianlux

Damn! It's like war-of-the-month club and everyone's invited. Iraq, Israel/Palestine, Afghanistan, Ukraine/Russia and of course, as badbrains pointed out, we're probably going to bomb the shit out of Scotland for getting uppity about wanting independence.

Today's war is brought to you by Pabst Red Ribbon.

Austicman

Thanks for info gents. I knew there had to be more to it. Though it does seem to me that Vlad is trying to pick a fight to see what Barack is made of and how far he can push him. I found very odd that the Ukraine President addressed Congress in the first place and what he said was nothing short of a declaration of war.

Corporatocracy Absolute Classic DO. I may have to steal that

PJ_Soul

There have been tons of these incidents over several years FYI. They only happen to be reporting it now because they know scare mongering sells and now is the best time to bring in readers/viewers by scare mongering about Russia.

The US would not get into a war with Russia. That would make no sense. They will continue to deal with these issues on a more diplomatic level. This is how it's been with Russia for years and years and years. Same shit, different border.

Drowned Out

Austicman said:

Thanks for info gents. I knew there had to be more to it. Though it does seem to me that Vlad is trying to pick a fight to see what Barack is made of and how far he can push him. I found very odd that the Ukraine President addressed Congress in the first place and what he said was nothing short of a declaration of war.

Corporatocracy Absolute Classic DO. I may have to steal that

Thank John Perkins (Confessions of an Economic Hitman), that's who I stole it from

I'm not so sure Vlad is picking the fight....in fact, I'm sure it's the West that's been provoking him for ages. The Odessa massacre and the downing of flight MH17 were both pinned on Putin in the media, while the bulk of the evidence pointed to the Ukraine government. That's provocation. Not to mention the continued killing of Russian speakers in East Ukraine, which many are calling ethnic cleansing. The media also keeps portraying Russia as funding a proxy war in East Ukraine...but I haven't seen anything credible to suggest they've given anything more than humanitarian aid, and have allowed Russian soldiers leave if they wish to volunteer to fight for the rebel side in East Ukraine. I think given the circumstance, Putin has shown restraint.

PJ_Soul said:

There have been tons of these incidents over several years FYI. They only happen to be reporting it now because they know scare mongering sells and now is the best time to bring in readers/viewers by scare mongering about Russia.

The US would not get into a war with Russia. That would make no sense. They will continue to deal with these issues on a more diplomatic level. This is how it's been with Russia for years and years and years. Same shit, different border.

I was with you until the word diplomatic....there is nothing diplomatic about funding a coup to overthrow a sovereign state, propping up a fascist government, and continuing to fund it both directly and thru NGO's....and continue to arm it thru NATO allies. There is definitely a war agenda here; we're just avoiding being directly involved.

Godfather.

Jason P said:

Those sneaky Russians just bought Pabst Brewing Co. This is an act of war.

)

Godfather.

PJ_Soul

Drowned Out said:

Austicman said:

Thanks for info gents. I knew there had to be more to it. Though it does seem to me that Vlad is trying to pick a fight to see what Barack is made of and how far he can push him. I found very odd that the Ukraine President addressed Congress in the first place and what he said was nothing short of a declaration of war.

Corporatocracy Absolute Classic DO. I may have to steal that

Thank John Perkins (Confessions of an Economic Hitman), that's who I stole it from

I'm not so sure Vlad is picking the fight....in fact, I'm sure it's the West that's been provoking him for ages. The Odessa massacre and the downing of flight MH17 were both pinned on Putin in the media, while the bulk of the evidence pointed to the Ukraine government. That's provocation. Not to mention the continued killing of Russian speakers in East Ukraine, which many are calling ethnic cleansing. The media also keeps portraying Russia as funding a proxy war in East Ukraine...but I haven't seen anything credible to suggest they've given anything more than humanitarian aid, and have allowed Russian soldiers leave if they wish to volunteer to fight for the rebel side in East Ukraine. I think given the circumstance, Putin has shown restraint.

PJ_Soul said:

There have been tons of these incidents over several years FYI. They only happen to be reporting it now because they know scare mongering sells and now is the best time to bring in readers/viewers by scare mongering about Russia.

The US would not get into a war with Russia. That would make no sense. They will continue to deal with these issues on a more diplomatic level. This is how it's been with Russia for years and years and years. Same shit, different border.

I was with you until the word diplomatic....there is nothing diplomatic about funding a coup to overthrow a sovereign state, propping up a fascist government, and continuing to fund it both directly and thru NGO's....and continue to arm it thru NATO allies. There is definitely a war agenda here; we're just avoiding being directly involved.

Okay. What I meant was "diplomatic".

Drowned Out

Ukraine National Guard “Volunteer Battalion” Deployed in Donbass, Trained by US Militaryhttp://en.ria.ru/world/20140922/193180638/Ukrainian-Donbas-Volunteer-Battalion-to-Be-Trained-by-US.html

Members of the Donbas volunteer battalion, created to take part in a special military operation in eastern Ukraine, will be trained by retired US instructors, the commander of the battalion, Semen Semenchenko, said Monday.


“[I] Concluded an agreement yesterday [Sunday] on the training of soldiers and officers of the Donbas battalion by mobile groups of instructors from the United States, who are currently not part of the active military personnel. They will follow the traditional training system, the training system of the United States Navy SEALs and the Delta Force. Preparations will start in 10 days,” Semenchenko wrote on his Facebook page.



This is EXACTLY the same thing Russia is doing, and we are condemning them for doing...
Only Russia is supporting the will of the people of the Donbass region....Voters in Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts (Donbass region) OVERWHELMINGLY voted for independence from Ukraine in May....the Ukraine government is fighting to prevent independence and self-determination.
Supporting state terrorism, as always.

callen

^^^^^ Wow

zarocat

Drowned Out said:

Oil DOES play a big part in this situation, but not because of Ukraine's reserves - this is about controlling pipeline corridors (edit: mostly for natural gas - a bigger 'part' than oil), pressuring/isolating Russia with sanctions and by expanding NATO to encircle them, in an attempt to prevent them from trading oil in anything but US currency (maintain petrodollar hegemony).
The US sponsored the coup there, and they continue to support some really fucked up people (literally - Nazis). They are asking for US help in suppressing (killing) their own people. Likely because shooting down that plane didn't goad either side (US or Russia) into a full on war. And our fearless leaders are applauding him like he's done the Ukrainian people a favour.

Pipeline corridors is correct.