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California 10 day waiting period unconstitutional.

unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
in A Moving Train
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/08/25/california-10-day-waiting-period-to-buy-gun-violates-the-second-amendment-as-to-people-who-are-known-to-the-state-to-already-own-guns/

It makes sense. If you own a firearm and pass a current background check there is no reason to mandate a waiting period on a new purchase.

Comments

  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,047
    edited August 2014
    Oh man, as a life-long Californian I have to say I totally say... [pissing rant].
    Post edited by brianlux on
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,047
    Hey, sorry to be such a smart ass about stuff like this but when I read this shit I think, "If he could come back to life, who would tell me tell my friend D. who was shot to death in the head last year that maybe if the jerk who killed him had had to wait a few more days to get that gun he would have lived?" And why is everybody in such a big hurry to fuck somebody up with a yet another gun. Violence begets violence begets violence ad nauseam. As far as I'm concerned they can make that holding period a year or 10 years and make sure there's a damn good reason for the person applying to possess a gun and if not, too bad.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    I think that you are missing the point. For a first time purchase, yes have the waiting period. But what is the point of a cooling off period when the person already has a firearm? Do you think they would go out and buy another to commit a crime? Why wouldn't they just use the one that they have? That's the message. If someone owned a firearm and desired another and passed a background check then the 10 day wait is no longer viewed as acceptable because there would be no reason for denial of access.

    I do agree that for a first time purchase one should have a wait.
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    If you get a physical when you are 20 years old to get your prostate checked out and your result is that you don't have cancer then does it mean you don't have to go get a physical when you are 40 years old because the test 20 years ago showed you are OK?

    Things happen in periods of time. Short periods of time. A person could be fired from a job. Find out their spouse is cheating on them. etc. etc. etc.
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    And just because someone passed a background check 20 years ago does not imply they still ...

    image
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    unsung said:

    I think that you are missing the point. For a first time purchase, yes have the waiting period. But what is the point of a cooling off period when the person already has a firearm? Do you think they would go out and buy another to commit a crime? Why wouldn't they just use the one that they have? That's the message. If someone owned a firearm and desired another and passed a background check then the 10 day wait is no longer viewed as acceptable because there would be no reason for denial of access.

    I do agree that for a first time purchase one should have a wait.

    It seems to me that this is targeting the bastards who buy guys legally and sell them on the black market. Gun manufacturer s don't sell directly to gangs, they sell to straw men who file off the serial numbers and unload to criminals. According to an article I read citing Ohio St Patrol, much of this happens at gun shows and swaps...and there is little that can be done about it. Waiting 10 days isn't enough of a deterrent, but it's better than none.
    Why would someone who already owns guns need one on such short notice? I'm sure there are reasons but are they worth making illegal gun trafficking easier?
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,604
    States rights. End of story.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
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    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    Jason P said:

    If you get a physical when you are 20 years old to get your prostate checked out and your result is that you don't have cancer then does it mean you don't have to go get a physical when you are 40 years old because the test 20 years ago showed you are OK?

    Things happen in periods of time. Short periods of time. A person could be fired from a job. Find out their spouse is cheating on them. etc. etc. etc.


    A background check is still completed. If the individual passes it they are saying there shouldn't be a wait if they have previously made a purchase.
  • Indifference71Indifference71 Posts: 14,844
    unsung said:

    Jason P said:

    If you get a physical when you are 20 years old to get your prostate checked out and your result is that you don't have cancer then does it mean you don't have to go get a physical when you are 40 years old because the test 20 years ago showed you are OK?

    Things happen in periods of time. Short periods of time. A person could be fired from a job. Find out their spouse is cheating on them. etc. etc. etc.


    A background check is still completed. If the individual passes it they are saying there shouldn't be a wait if they have previously made a purchase.
    Is there a limit to how long the first background check is good for?
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    It happens at the point of purchase, I'm unaware of a valid time frame. I believe it applies to an immediate purchase.

    I recently purchased an AR-15 from a local store and a Glock 9mm from another. I was subject to two background checks because I didn't buy them together even though I bought them the same day. Background checks are not open ended. I can't submit one and then buy an unlimited amount of firearms in a week. It's one background check per purchase.

    I'm speaking about Illinois, I can't comment on other states.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    unsung said:

    It happens at the point of purchase, I'm unaware of a valid time frame. I believe it applies to an immediate purchase.

    I recently purchased an AR-15 from a local store and a Glock 9mm from another. I was subject to two background checks because I didn't buy them together even though I bought them the same day. Background checks are not open ended. I can't submit one and then buy an unlimited amount of firearms in a week. It's one background check per purchase.

    I'm speaking about Illinois, I can't comment on other states.

    Do you think a 10 day waiting period is a deterrent to illegal arms sales? I can imagine it would be, but I can also imagine it being easy enough to get around. I do see a 10 day waiting period as a problem for gun shows, and I am all for it!
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    I can't see it making a difference. I can understand it for a first time purchase but if someone is willing to break federal laws then I don't believe ten extra days will deter them.
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    unsung said:

    Jason P said:

    If you get a physical when you are 20 years old to get your prostate checked out and your result is that you don't have cancer then does it mean you don't have to go get a physical when you are 40 years old because the test 20 years ago showed you are OK?

    Things happen in periods of time. Short periods of time. A person could be fired from a job. Find out their spouse is cheating on them. etc. etc. etc.


    A background check is still completed. If the individual passes it they are saying there shouldn't be a wait if they have previously made a purchase.
    In that case, it is a dumb law.
  • fifefife Posts: 3,327
    unsung said:

    I think that you are missing the point. For a first time purchase, yes have the waiting period. But what is the point of a cooling off period when the person already has a firearm? Do you think they would go out and buy another to commit a crime? Why wouldn't they just use the one that they have? That's the message. If someone owned a firearm and desired another and passed a background check then the 10 day wait is no longer viewed as acceptable because there would be no reason for denial of access.

    I do agree that for a first time purchase one should have a wait.

    sorry might just be very tired but is this basically saying that you still have to pass a background check again and if passed at that point then they can get a gun without the 10 day wait?
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,604
    unsung said:

    I think that you are missing the point. For a first time purchase, yes have the waiting period. But what is the point of a cooling off period when the person already has a firearm? Do you think they would go out and buy another to commit a crime? Why wouldn't they just use the one that they have? That's the message. If someone owned a firearm and desired another and passed a background check then the 10 day wait is no longer viewed as acceptable because there would be no reason for denial of access.

    I do agree that for a first time purchase one should have a wait.

    How does a state know if the buyer still possesses first purchase?
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    fife said:

    unsung said:

    I think that you are missing the point. For a first time purchase, yes have the waiting period. But what is the point of a cooling off period when the person already has a firearm? Do you think they would go out and buy another to commit a crime? Why wouldn't they just use the one that they have? That's the message. If someone owned a firearm and desired another and passed a background check then the 10 day wait is no longer viewed as acceptable because there would be no reason for denial of access.

    I do agree that for a first time purchase one should have a wait.

    sorry might just be very tired but is this basically saying that you still have to pass a background check again and if passed at that point then they can get a gun without the 10 day wait?
    Correct.

  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    mickeyrat said:

    unsung said:

    I think that you are missing the point. For a first time purchase, yes have the waiting period. But what is the point of a cooling off period when the person already has a firearm? Do you think they would go out and buy another to commit a crime? Why wouldn't they just use the one that they have? That's the message. If someone owned a firearm and desired another and passed a background check then the 10 day wait is no longer viewed as acceptable because there would be no reason for denial of access.

    I do agree that for a first time purchase one should have a wait.

    How does a state know if the buyer still possesses first purchase?

    I guess it depends on the state. I don't know how all 50 operate.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,047
    unsung said:

    I think that you are missing the point. For a first time purchase, yes have the waiting period. But what is the point of a cooling off period when the person already has a firearm? Do you think they would go out and buy another to commit a crime? Why wouldn't they just use the one that they have? That's the message. If someone owned a firearm and desired another and passed a background check then the 10 day wait is no longer viewed as acceptable because there would be no reason for denial of access.

    I do agree that for a first time purchase one should have a wait.

    Agreed. I read it too quickly. Sorry, man.

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    No worries, have a good night.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,047
    Likewise.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • fifefife Posts: 3,327
    unsung said:

    fife said:

    unsung said:

    I think that you are missing the point. For a first time purchase, yes have the waiting period. But what is the point of a cooling off period when the person already has a firearm? Do you think they would go out and buy another to commit a crime? Why wouldn't they just use the one that they have? That's the message. If someone owned a firearm and desired another and passed a background check then the 10 day wait is no longer viewed as acceptable because there would be no reason for denial of access.

    I do agree that for a first time purchase one should have a wait.

    sorry might just be very tired but is this basically saying that you still have to pass a background check again and if passed at that point then they can get a gun without the 10 day wait?
    Correct.

    ok i don't have an issue with that as long as they still have to pass a background check at the time of purchase.

    btw, i am impressed that you are ok with the 10 day waiting for a new gun owner. I don't think i ever saw you say something like that before.
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    edited August 2014
    I don't believe a ten day period is necessary, I would prefer to shorten it myself. I do support a few days for a first time purchase.
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    Washington state had a seven day waiting period for handguns when I lived there. I only bought one firearm so I don't know if it was required for additional purchases. Indiana has a 2 minute waiting period ... basically the background check on handguns. Long rifles and shot guns are just treated like buying an R-rated DVD at Walmart.
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    Illinois is 72 hrs on handguns and 24 on long guns. FOID card required for all purchases, even ammo purchases.
  • SmellymanSmellyman Posts: 4,524
    unsung said:

    It happens at the point of purchase, I'm unaware of a valid time frame. I believe it applies to an immediate purchase.

    I recently purchased an AR-15 from a local store and a Glock 9mm from another. I was subject to two background checks because I didn't buy them together even though I bought them the same day. Background checks are not open ended. I can't submit one and then buy an unlimited amount of firearms in a week. It's one background check per purchase.

    I'm speaking about Illinois, I can't comment on other states.

    Bitchin!
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